Rebecca Smith
MP for South West Devon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“The Secretary of State claims that decisions reflect local identities. Well, I can advise him that the majority of my constituents and those living in rural Devon would highly disagree.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. He and I have had several interactions over the marine autonomy sector in particular, and I welcome the regulating for growth Bill, as I have said before in this place. However, I am incredibly keen to be reassured that it is coming early in the autumn.”
“The right hon. Member has highlighted that, in his view, this is not a binary choice between a debate on the middle east and holding the new Prime Minister to account. I wonder whether I might therefore offer him a solution.”
“I want to hear his views on defence, welfare, taxation and special educational needs. Those are the things that I believe the House deserves to hear directly from the new Prime Minister before we return in September. Might the right hon. Member consider that pretty simple solution, which would give everyone what they want?”
“The Minister makes a very interesting point about city centres being hollowed out, but the main thrust of this debate is about young people doing summer jobs before they go back to school or university in the autumn.”
“My hon. Friend reminds me that one of the other soft skills that we learn that way is resilience. I am wondering how he got those jobs, because I earned £10 a day in my first job. I was sweeping the floor in a florist and, if I was lucky, bundling up some flowers before I sold them.”
The complete record
Every one of 601 lines we hold for Rebecca Smith, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 12 of 13.
“On what the Leader of the Opposition said, I am not 100% sure of the quote, so I am not going to comment on that. I think it was taken quite significantly out of context. On the Bill Committee, I will continue saying it— [ Interruption. ] At the end of the day, I am the one here speaking this afternoon, so I am at least interested in this debate—let’s keep talking. We understand the challenges facing families, which is why we updated the system to enable greater flexibility in how parental leave is taken. We wanted to ensure that parents are supported to spend the precious first few weeks and months bonding with their newborn, promoting healthy attachment that sets their child up for a successful future.”
“Adoptive parents also became eligible for paid time off for up to five adoption appointments—something that I personally think is entirely welcome.”
“We introduced shared parental leave for new parents, allowing parents to share up to 50 weeks of leave and up to 37 weeks of pay after the birth or adoption of a child. However, more needs to be done to encourage uptake of shared parental leave. We know that of fathers who did not take shared parental leave, 45% were not even aware that it existed, according to a 2023 review under the previous Government. Awareness is particularly lacking among smaller businesses: 94% of managers in workplaces with 250 or more employees were aware of the provision; that dropped to 71% in workplaces with fewer than 50 employees. Importantly, our Government brought statutory adoption leave and pay in line with statutory parental leave, ensuring that adoptive parents had the same rights as birth parents.”
“I will keep making progress, if I may. [Interruption.] It is not because I do not want to take the intervention, but because I am on a time limit. We introduced the biggest expansion of childcare in England’s history—it is heartening to see that Labour has continued our roll-out, despite its criticisms at the time. We backed new legislation to provide additional paid leave to parents whose baby requires neonatal care, allowing them to spend more time with their baby in hospital instead of worrying about returning to work or having to take unpaid leave. We strengthened protections for pregnant women and new parents against redundancy, removing workplace discrimination and improving job security.”
“Flourishing businesses provide stable income for families, leading to a strong economy and a brighter future for the next generation. The Conservatives’ record demonstrates our support for parents and families, but that must be done sustainably, in a way that backs businesses rather than stifling them.”
“It overreaches, snatching choice out of the hands of business owners, who are best placed to balance the interests of their staff members with the viability of their business overall. When it is practical and affordable, many businesses already offer enhanced maternity and paternity pay in order to retain talent—something that has been stressed this afternoon. A survey of 460 organisations by Brightmine in June 2024 found that 75% of private sector organisations and 97% of public sector organisations already offer enhanced maternity pay. Any changes to statutory maternity and paternity pay must be done after consulting businesses. We must avoid saddling them with yet more unaffordable costs at a time when they are facing immense pressure.”
“The Government’s Employment Rights Bill as a whole is projected to cost businesses up to £4.5 billion annually and it could increase the number of strikes by 53%. Increased parental pay will be no help at all if people have lost their job. In this context, it is our view that significant increases in statutory maternity and paternity pay are simply unaffordable for businesses or the public sector right now. It is also not clear how the state itself would afford the change. I am sure that the Minister will address that. We need to protect jobs for the long term. A stable household income is one of the most important factors in ensuring healthy, happy children who will grow into bold and ambitious adults. The Government’s Employment Rights Bill stifles small businesses when they are already gasping for oxygen.”
“The UK offers the fourth longest statutory maternity leave, topped only by Estonia, Croatia and Bulgaria, and it ranks 13th globally for length of statutory paternity leave; 90 countries have no statutory paternity leave at all. However, there is a fine balance between supporting parents to spend precious time with their child and protecting businesses from burdensome regulations. In our current economic climate, increasing statutory maternity and paternity pay would be counterproductive for businesses —small and medium-sized enterprises especially—at a time when Labour is already saddling them with extra costs. Small business owners are facing enormous pressure: 17,000 high street businesses are expected to close this year alone, and retail businesses in my constituency tell me that they now face a doubling of their business rates.”
“Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell), the charity Home for Good discovered that 34% of local authorities have no policy in place for those discretionary payments. Worse still, according to a 2022 survey by the all-party parliamentary group on adoption and permanence, 90% of self-employed adopters are not informed about them by their social worker. Of course we acknowledge the calls to go further with parental leave, and I am sure that the Minister heard the pleas to include kinship carers in the review. We will scrutinise the Government’s review of parental leave, launched in July this year, to ensure that it strikes an appropriate balance between supporting families and backing businesses. It is worth noting that the UK’s parental leave policies rank comparatively well against countries around the world.”
“I will keep going, because I have quite a lot to say. Those measures rightly honour the contributions of parents who open their heart and home to children in need of a loving family; 4,500 people claimed statutory adoption pay in 2024-25. In England alone, 2,940 children were waiting for adoption as of September this year, so statutory adoption leave and pay are vital for increasing the number of adoptive parents. As the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Lisa Smart) noted, we need to do more to support adoptive parents who are self-employed—that has come up loud and clear this afternoon. Statutory guidance allows local authorities to make discretionary means-tested payments, equivalent to statutory adoption pay. However, as we heard from the hon.”
“Does the Minister share my concern that lifting the two-child benefit cap will increase worklessness, and can he guarantee that taxes will not go up in next month’s Budget for adults who work hard and make careful decisions about family size in order to pay for the £3.6 billion it will cost to lift that cap?”
“Every Member in this Chamber shares a commitment to lifting people out of poverty, especially children; we just have different views on how to go about it. Children in workless households are nearly four times more likely to live in poverty than those in households where adults work. We know that work pays, yet we on the Conservative Benches find ourselves surrounded by parties that are just itching to scrap the two-child benefit cap, resorting to yet more sticking plasters, like universal breakfast clubs, to reduce uncomfortable figures without putting in the hard work to tackle their causes.”
“Q9. Last week, I invited the Prime Minister to match the Conservative pledge to scrap business rates for our high streets. However, he declined. Instead, he pointed me towards the small business strategy. Since then, businesses have been in touch to tell me that the strategy will make little or no difference to their future. With 14,000 high street businesses expected to close this year alone, and with retail businesses in my constituency facing a doubling of their business rates, when will the Labour Government deliver on their commitment to reduce business rates, given that they are unprepared to accept our policy of scrapping them altogether?”
“Yesterday I met Lila, a sixth-form student at Coombe Dean school, who raised the issue of long waiting lists for mental health services for children and young people across Devon. What action has been taken as a result of the Government’s policy of reorganising the NHS to reduce the unacceptable delays in mental health diagnosis and treatment for children and young people, particularly in constituencies such as South West Devon?”
“Q5. Later this afternoon I will be launching a small business survey so that the 3,000 small and medium-sized enterprises in my constituency, which employ thousands of my constituents, can have their say about what is like to run a business under a Labour Government, and what their concerns are ahead of the Budget. However, I want to give the Prime Minister the opportunity to provide a word of hope that I can share. Will he tell my constituents that he has heard the pleas of SMEs and their fright about the Budget, that he will scrap business rates for hospitality and leisure as well as the family business and family farm taxes, and that his Government will commit themselves to no further tax rises for business?”
“Clearly, how antisemitism is tackled by the police in our communities is key, so I would be interested to hear from the Home Secretary what specialist training our police forces and the Crown Prosecution Service—I appreciate that this is a bit off-piste; maybe she might put on her Justice hat for a moment—are receiving to help them understand the complexity of investigating, charging and prosecuting those exhibiting antisemitic views early on. There is a belief among members of the Jewish community who live near my constituency that far too many cases are dropped due to being labelled as having mitigating issues around concerns for Israel.”
“The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urge the Government to reject Plymouth City Council’s proposed boundary expansion into the South Hams and instead adopt the 1-4-5 model proposed by South Hams District Council, which respects existing boundaries and reflects the preferences and interests of local residents. And the petitioners remain, etc. [P003113]”
“Further to a similar online petition of just under 1,800 signatures, I present this petition. The petition states: The petition of residents of the United Kingdom, Declares that Plymouth City Council’s proposed expansion into 13 parishes in the South Hams is strongly opposed by local residents; further declares that Plymouth City Council’s proposal threatens the identity, autonomy and rural character of long-established parish communities; further declares that Devon’s District Councils have presented an alternative 1-4-5 model for local government reorganisation in Devon which takes account of local residents’ wishes; and further notes that this plan would retain Plymouth as a unitary authority within its current boundaries, create a second unitary authority comprising South Hams, Teignbridge, West Devon and Torbay, and a third authority covering East Devon, Mid Devon, North Devon, Torridge and Exeter.”
“Although I understand the point about protecting vulnerable customers from scamming, I feel the evidence we heard demonstrates that more work is needed, work that is not included in the Bill, to make sure that pension companies are able to advertise in such a way that they can play their part in the guidance process that we have debated at length, and in how people get that financial education. I understand the premise of the new clause, but we have many more questions to answer on this. If anything, I think we need to be making it easier for pension companies, the legitimate people in the room, to be able to communicate. There could be unintended consequential issues; we are trying to deal with scammers, but we might inadvertently stop people accessing information that we are trying to help them to receive.”
“I have a query off the back of the comments of the hon. Member for Aberdeen North. We heard in the evidence sessions that there is a danger that overdoing the requirements for marketing will get in the way of providing guidance. That came up directly in the response to some of our questions, I think specifically from Legal and General and Aviva. Companies are already in a position where, if they are not careful, offering guidance is considered marketing. Therefore, they do have their hands tied by existing legislation. I am slightly intrigued why this new clause has been tabled, given that Liberal Democrat colleagues will have also heard that evidence. More work is needed on this issue than just adding a new clause to the Bill; I heard from the hon. Member for Hendon that there is a consultation.”
“Previous Conservative Governments were committed to repairing the railway line at Dawlish, which is vital to Devon and Cornwall’s economic growth, yet this Labour Government have said that they will complete the rail resilience programme only if and when survey work shows that it is needed. Given the likelihood that the Treasury’s emergency fund will have been spent on public sector pay increases, can the Secretary of State guarantee that funding will be found for resilience works, if they have not been planned and committed to as part of a fiscal event, should an unexpected incident or landslip take out the line at Dawlish?”
“We have seen that with Equitable Life and all sorts of other things to do with pensions. When someone changes employer, if there were a simple way to say, “I wish to take the pension with me to the new job,” that would reduce, not increase, the administrative burden. I appreciate what the Minister said, but although we are not looking to push our new clause to a vote, it is an incredibly pragmatic suggestion that warrants further reflection.”
“If there were a way of taking our pension with us as well, that would be helpful. As my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Leicestershire said, that approach would put ownership in the hands of the employee, and it would mean that they did not have a niggling feeling in the back of their mind that they had missed a pot that they had forgotten about. Anything to enable people to have ownership of that pot, rather than be constantly on the back foot trying to hunt it down, would make significant sense. Allowing people to choose rather than having to accept what is offered to them would be incredibly helpful. Ultimately, it is up to them to do what they wish, but they would at least have the choice. We heard a lot in the evidence sessions about the challenge of communication.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey. I want to add a few things to what my hon. Friends have said, and to reflect on the Minister’s rejection of our new clause as a significant administrative burden. I think we are talking about two sides of the same coin, because to have to keep hunting out small pension pots is a little like looking for things in the dark. First, we are effectively advocating for a “Who Wants to be a Millionaire?” approach, where someone banks at each stage. I have done that while moving jobs over my lifetime, but I am fairly financially literate. It would be helpful if there were a box to tick on a form when changing job to say, “Yes, I want to move it to this company,” a bit like we do with our P45—we are quite capable of taking our tax with us from job to job.”
“I want to build on what the hon. Member for Torbay asked. As a former local councillor myself—I am not part of the pension scheme, I hasten to add, so I do not have an interest to declare—the bit from the evidence session that came out for me, thinking through this bit of the Bill, relates to the equivalent in treasury management. As a council, we often borrowed from the Public Works Loan Board to invest in, for example, a shopping centre to get the income from rent, business rates and so on. What safeguards or requirements will be put in place to ensure that any money spent from a pension fund goes on capital rather than revenue? I appreciate that council tax revenue increases could be used for that, but are there any safeguards to ensure that the money is not just spent and then does not exist anymore?”
“Having an additional vehicle to do that seems to me a sensible thing, and I put on record my support in the same way that my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Leicestershire has.”
“Providing another alternative and another opportunity for people to receive financial education—particularly people in their 20s, 30s and 40s who have not had it at school, because it was not part of the curriculum at that point—is something we should welcome and not restrict. The amendment seems to me perfectly sensible. I appreciate why some people might think it does not go far enough, or that the matter will be addressed later in the reporting back that the Government will do on pensions in general, but the emphasis on people around the age of 40 is particularly important, because they still have a good 20 years—or 30 years, potentially; who knows what will come forward from the Government?—to work and to ensure that they maximise returns to achieve adequacy.”
“In line with what has been said already, my thought is that plenty of financial education is a good thing; to say that some is worth pursuing and some is not seems a bit at odds with what we have been debating. I echo what colleagues have said about workers who come from a DC scheme into a DB scheme and need that education. I am sure there are many new Members who are in that position—I cannot be the only person who is—and, while I am fortunate enough to have taken pension advice throughout my career, I know many people have not. For me, this is not something that is mandated, but a suggestion for something that could be done.”
“Ultimately, we want to ensure that value for money is based on the right level of risk for the right stage in people’s careers and the right stage in their pensions journey.”
“My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech with a very good historical analysis of what has happened over the last 30 or 40 years. It is worth reflecting on the risk point, particularly for the wide age range of people who hold pensions. This came up during the evidence session: if we end up avoiding risk, the people who are just starting out in their careers and might only be in their early 20s or 30s could end up with a pension that does not deliver anywhere near what it could have delivered, if we apply those same factors. A thought that came to me in the evidence session was how we can ensure that our system allows for risk at the bottom end, but with a tapering out of risk as people get older. The Minister is the expert in this area, and I am interested to know what might be possible in the future.”
“How will members know that they have that opt-out? Will that be clear enough, given all the comments we have been making on financial education? People have got to be pretty engaged, and we know from the history that they are not always that engaged in their future.”
“Neighbouring constituencies have even more jobs and economic value at risk under this Labour Government. That is why a group of local businesses have taken matters into their own hands and formed a campaign to save hospitality across Plymouth and South West Devon. I am proud to support it. The impact of increased employer national insurance contributions; of halving business rate relief; of bringing forward employment rights that nobble employers and add undue cost and pressure; and of the minimum wage increase, even for the youngest employees, is hitting so hard that many businesses fear for the future. The sector is reeling. Businesses are simply not employing new staff, and they are less inclined to employ young people and students.”
“There are over 300 hospitality businesses in South West Devon, and even though that may not be the highest number in a single constituency, considering the areas of countryside in mine, where the only residents are cattle and sheep, it is a hefty number. There are 316 venues, including the Woolwell Centre, the Who’d Have Thought It, the Black Cat Surf Club and the Plympton Conservative Club, the Exchange in Ivybridge, Nelli’s in Yealmpton, School House at Mothecombe, the Odd Wheel in Wembury and Kingfisher Fish and Chips. The list goes on. Hospitality in South West Devon means more than 2,000 jobs, a turnover of £91.7 million and an economic value to the local economy of £50 million. Hospitality plays a crucial role in our local community tourism offer—in our area, there is everything from coast to moors to explore.”
“It means that fewer people go out; that is what I am hearing from constituents. Then those businesses face closure, which impacts the local economy. It is a vicious cycle and, sadly, the Labour party seems completely oblivious to it. The equation is simple, and I am saddened and disappointed to see the Labour party stick its head in the sand, completely determined to ignore the issue. If we Conservative Members do not speak up, there will not be a hospitality sector in this country. As I have said, the Labour party keeps boasting about economic growth in hospitality, but I am not sure that we will see that in my constituency, because all the hospitality businesses feel massively under threat.”
“I will come on to that exact point in my remaining few minutes, but absolutely, they are a crucial part of our community. Why does that all matter? As hospitality businesses across the country bring financial and social value to our communities, they are critical to a thriving tourism sector. They are also a key part of our everyday life, whether it is having the treat of an ice cream on the beach during a summer holiday, using a local memory café with a loved one, chatting over a pint to ease loneliness, or bringing family together for a meal that someone else has cooked, in order to mark a special occasion. However, the increased business costs imposed by this Labour Government mean that there are increased costs to the consumers who want to make the most of those opportunities.”
“So there is quite a lot in that evolution we are on, and when we go into surplus management or excess funds—Michelle was talking about this at macro level; we would be managing at our micro level in each scheme— I think it becomes really critical that we have the right governance to manage what is a new era. I would really recommend that the Pensions Regulator issue guidance as soon as possible on all this, because it will be quite uncomfortable for a lot of trustees. It will be quite difficult also for the advisers in how we manage this new era.”
“I would not underestimate how big a change it is, in the defined benefit sector, that we are moving from two decades of worrying about deficit into suddenly worrying about surpluses and having very mature schemes, which is the other thing that is important. Most of the DB schemes are closed. If I talk about the BT pension scheme, the average age is 71, so they are pretty old members and that means there is a risk level, from an investment perspective, that really matters. We are paying out £2.8 billion a year in member benefits. That means liquidity is really important. It is really important that we have the money to pay the members and that we do not end up being a distressed seller of assets.”
“Morten Nilsson : I come from Denmark originally and I think, to echo some of what Michelle said, scale just matters in pensions. The Danish pension industry has been fortunate to have few and relatively large schemes. One of the things I saw when I came over to the UK 15 years ago was that the industry here is very fragmented, and that fragmentation means also that there are so many conflicts of interest in the market. That in a way makes it quite hard to get the best outcomes, and that of course leads into the governance models that Michelle talks about. So this Bill is something we very much welcome across what it is covering. I think it is a really good initiative, but I think scale matters, and governance really matters.”
“I think that right now we are trying to solve a problem of two things: reshaping the pension system and trying to solve the need for a growth initiative. They are one thing in my mind; they really are one thing. It is not a surprise that as we have de-risked the pension system over two decades, it has, I suspect, quite directly, but at least indirectly, affected overall economic growth. Making members wealthier pensioners in general and less dependent on social services is what many countries are trying to do and use their pension systems for. I see that out of the commission that is being started, so I am most excited about the next phase. I think there is a lot of potential, and we at the PPF are doing quite a bit of research and want to be able to feed some global ideas into that.”
“As I think a few of my peers mentioned before we got up here, it has fallen behind, frankly. I think the motives that are in this Bill are exceptionally important—they are foundational. I love that we are speaking on scale and sophistication. These are absolutely key, in both DB and DC. I want to underscore that; it is really key. One thing that is not spoken of quite as much is the concept of an asset owner and the importance of governance. In relation to the successful countries that I have seen, which have mastered the art of pensions and the ability to translate pensions into growth, it is not a proven model, but there is a best practice such that countries are able to make growth by leveraging pension systems.”
“Q Given the international experience that both of you have in this realm, I am interested to know whether there is either anything in the Bill that you think is a red flag or anything that you think is a missed opportunity and not in the legislation in front of us today. Michelle Ostermann: That is fascinating. I came to the UK, and back to the UK, because I have so much enthusiasm for the UK and the pension system. I am very fortunate to be the chair of the global pension industry association, so I study pension systems around the world and am quite familiar with many of them. The UK pension system is the second largest in the world by size if you include underfunded pensions. It is one of the most sophisticated, but it is the second most disaggregated.”
“There are obviously challenges, which Rob and Zoe have articulated, around how you do that, when you have a trustee in place whose responsibility is to the member, and making sure that is paramount in the system? Patrick Coyne: I agree with that. I think it is fair to say that there is a degree of consensus in the marketplace, among Government, industry and regulators, that we need to make structural reforms to the marketplace and put value for money at the heart of the system. A big part of that is a move towards fewer, larger pension schemes, because of some of the factors that Charlotte just outlined—the ability to in-house your investments; the ability to consider a broader range of investments, which can sometimes be quite complex; and broader governance standards.”
“Q Obviously, a big part of the Bill is the assumption that mandation is a good idea. I would be interested to know to what extent you agree with the Bank of England Governor, Andrew Bailey, that mandating pension scheme investments is not appropriate? Charlotte Clark: Following on from Zoe and Rob—I think they have articulated this issue really well—I do not think anybody disagrees with the direction of travel: trying to get more assets into private markets and higher return markets, and making sure there is more diversity within portfolios and that the scale of pension funds in the UK are using that in an effective way on investment. The issue of whether mandation is the right tool to use is ultimately one for you and the Government.”
“That is just going to be a very tricky assessment for the trustees or the scheme manager, and then for the regulators, at the point of addressing why they did not meet those levels. If they believe that it is not in the interests of the member, the Bill allows for that.”
“Q We are not all Government Members in this room, so we are quite keen to hear what bits you think might work and what bits might not work. That is where the question came from. As a supplementary question, do you think trustees and scheme managers should be provided with a safe harbour if they are required to invest in assets that underperform? I think that is probably what a lot of the public would be interested in as well. You do not want somebody to be mandated to put money into something that is doing worse than it was doing before it was moved. Charlotte Clark: There is an exemption in the Bill, though, that basically says that if you are a trustee and you do not believe it is the right thing for your members then you should not put that money in.”
“Q Are there not going to be too many hoops to jump through to prove that the trustee is correct, if they have to prove it to a regulator? I suppose that is what the safe harbour means. Will the trustees have the benefit of the doubt, or are they going to have to be watertight in their belief that they are right, to make sure that they can stand up to the regulator? Charlotte Clark: The level of that process would be something that we would put into secondary legislation and rules. We would really have to think through what that process looks like. Patrick Coyne : Yes, absolutely. Implementation is critical here. This will be something that is done with wide consultation with the industry.”
“If we sell the benefits of, for example, the default solution, rather than just say, “This is who the default solution is designed for,” and leave it to the customer to join the dots, we may have a better outcome, but it would be marketing, and we cannot do that, because of the privacy and electronic communications regulations. We would need member consent to deliver marketing communications, even though we are trying to help the customer.”
“Colin Clarke: I think it is right that the Bill, as I understand it, places the responsibility for member education and member communications on the provider, because ultimately the pension provider will be the organisation facilitating these things and making them happen. As was touched on in the previous panel, the availability of Pension Wise and other services like that is valuable, but I think pension providers ourselves have a responsibility to make sure that we deliver the right guidance and support for members. Dale Critchley: The only thing I would add to that is that, if we start to edge towards guidance, we can come into an issue around marketing.”
“Q This builds on something that was mentioned in the previous panel by Age UK—that a lot of the education that will need to be done to ensure that people understand what is going on, particularly with the small pots consolidation, could fall on Government, charities or providers. As pension provider representatives, what is your view on how far into the detail the Bill has gone in terms of who is responsible for that? We have seen in other, similar legislation an expectation put on businesses to provide the service, and it is often done at your cost rather than any sort of Government cost. I would be interested to know what you think about that.”
“Q Are you effectively saying that if you put the customer first, which is ultimately what this entire piece of legislation is trying to do, then, at the moment, other regulations will stop that from happening, so we might want to look at that? Dale Critchley: Yes.”