Sir Desmond Swayne
MP for New Forest West · Conservative · United Kingdom
“Just how confident is the Minister that this was not a cyber-attack? How confident is he of the resilience of the system in the event of such an attack, and how confident is he in the willingness and ability of the Government to retaliate in the event of such an attack, as the best form of deterrence?”
“I join that long list of UK Ministers who have raised, at the very highest level in Israel, the most egregious practices in the west bank, designed specifically to prevent a two-state solution, only for Israeli policy to double down. Accordingly, I congratulate the Secretary of State.”
“I am delighted by the reprieve—the New Forest was to be split, and part of it swallowed by Southampton. Will the Secretary of State accept my representation that we want the integrity of the New Forest to remain, and the last thing we want is for it all to be swallowed by Southampton?”
“To address one of the points made by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings, that takes account of the fact that there may be different levels of need in different areas.”
“Yes, essentially today we are putting these services on a statutory footing. Of course subsequent Governments can change statutes, but this Bill makes it an explicit decision of this House and Parliament, rather than a fiat by Government decision.”
“I will address exactly that point shortly. If a child is not developing properly and is not sleeping, feeding or communicating, parents need to know that they have somewhere to turn.”
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“The Secretary of State did not even attempt to address the question raised by my hon. Friend the Member for West Derbyshire (Mr. McLoughlin), so may I try a different tack? How many officers will it take to run the national policing improvement agency?”
“Given that many of us have received forceful representations from heterosexual couples who want to avail themselves of the benefits of the new relationship, the Bill is a perfectly logical vehicle for trying to secure such an amendment. Telling people that they can get married is an argument that a clergyman might put to them, but not a politician. They do not want to get married. It is their choice not to get married. We are told that the measure is not a marriage Bill and we are therefore perfectly entitled to try to secure the sort of amendment that we propose.”
“I have taken Ministers at their word. They say that it is not a marriage Bill and I accept that. I do not believe that the Bill damages marriage any more than I believe that extending the relationship to those who are not married will damage it. A growing proportion of our constituents are choosing to live in that way. If we ignore that reality, we shall undermine the stability of the social fabric. The arrangements should be extended to the growing proportion of our constituents who want and demand them.”
“Before my hon. Friend moves on, will he deal with the point that was forcefully made earlier—that cohabiting couples deserve the same protection as those who are married? My hon. Friend's answer is that they can get married, but they may not want to get married. It seems to me that telling those people that they should get married is to preach at them and to fly in the face of reality.”
“I found myself in profound agreement with what the Prime Minister had to say about Iraq and the transatlantic alliance, but the gloss on the summit coming from the Elysée palace is very different, prompting the question whether the Prime Minister and the President of France attended the same European summit.”
“Will my hon. Friend reflect on the fact that there are enough police in and around the Chamber to match the protesters one for one, and if they have to go out and check behind the fence every now and again, they are probably more usefully employed than they are in here?”
“If, having opted in, as the Home Secretary described it, we discover that the arrangements are not quite as agreeable as we imagined, is there a way back, or is it just a one-way street?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that many clauses are now thoroughly less well debated as a consequence of the liberation of Government Back Benchers, who take up time, thereby denying it to the Opposition who would effectively make points? Opposition Members are constrained from doing so as a consequence of the operation of the timetable.”
“I have been on Standing Committees that, although their sittings finished early, ran out of time. That is entirely possible as a consequence of the way in which knives fall. When highly contentious clauses are involved the Committee runs out of time, and then ends up with hours and hours, if not sittings and sittings, in which to discuss wholly uncontentious material.”
“My hon. Friend will be aware of the intervention made by the right hon. Member for Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley (Mr. Foulkes), based on his experience on a recent Joint Committee on pre-legislative scrutiny. Does my hon. Friend agree that that suggests that more time is needed for Standing Committees? I am sure that my hon. Friend will agree that were the recommendations of the right hon. Gentleman's Committee not to be taken, he would have rather more to say if he were subsequently to find himself on the Standing Committee for that Bill. I have been in that position as a member of a Standing Committee; because the Government had not taken account of the arguments made during the pre-legislative scrutiny, we had more to say and thus needed greater time in which to say it.”
“May I give the right hon. Gentleman the benefit of my experience on the Regional Assemblies (Preparations) Bill, on which we had the benefit of the report and the recommendations of the pre-legislative scrutiny phase? It was precisely because the Government had not implemented the recommendations that we were able, armed with the report and the evidence of which he has spoken, to put our arguments more effectively, but that takes time. It is a better-quality debate, but it is not shorter as a consequence of pre-legislative scrutiny.”
“The position is worse than my hon. Friend suggests. For every one of those examples, other clauses and groups of amendments were rushed through and given insufficient attention because Members were racing to reach a particular stage, or to make a point that they wished to make, before the knife fell.”
“Given the enormous effort that has been put into recruiting members of the new Iraqi army in Multi-National Division (South-East), is the Secretary of State confident, after recent events, that those trainees are receiving an appropriate level of security?”
“On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. My hon. Friend has rightly drawn attention to the threat that the Minister made. He said that if we failed to disagree to the amendment, he would withdraw the Bill. For those of us who served on the Standing Committee and can think of any number of good reasons why it would be better to see the back of the Bill, does that bring those reasons into the scope of the amendments, so that we can achieve the very prospect that the Minister has held up in front of us?”
“As for the new test presented by the Minister today—that if we do not do his will, he will withdraw the Bill—that is itself a powerful reason for disagreeing with the Minister.”
“I know of people who have secured awards on the basis of Gulf war syndrome, which would not be secured according to the new test. A whole category of settlements would fall at the first fence—they would be ruled out for being out of time. As the Minister has already been told, unless he can tell us that all those people have been given awards unfairly and improperly in the past, we should not be prepared to countenance a change that I consider absolutely unacceptable. Many of my constituents have benefited from the existing test. I have yet to learn of one who should not have received an award, and until such information is produced I cannot countenance any change. I believe that, on the merits of the amendment, we should not disagree with the Lords.”
“The Minister has said that as a consequence of the change in the balance of probabilities involved in decisions on claims, there will be a reduction in the number of people achieving a settlement. That is also the clear implication of what Lord Bach said in the other place. When I raised that point in Committee, the Minister said what he has said once this afternoon: "No—this will not take effect until April next year." The reality is, though, that we judge what will happen in the future on the basis of what has happened in the past, so Lord Bach is right. There are undoubtedly people who have secured pensions and settlements which, had they brought their cases after April next year, would not be secured. It is right for us to ask whether that is fair, given that the settlements sought were proper.”
“The Minister, in his opening remarks, provided us with a powerful argument for voting against his motion. He said that if we did not disagree with the Lords, or if subsequently the Lords insisted on their amendments, he would withdraw the Bill. Although I agree with the hon. Member for Dunfermline, West (Rachel Squire) that there are many good things in the Bill, I feel that on balance it is a rip-off—a bad package—and I therefore would not mind if the Minister did withdraw it. The critical argument is that advanced by my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier): in financial terms, the Bill amounts to a diminution of the present package.”
“My experience over a number of years as a prison visitor leads me to believe that we must never underestimate the redemptive power of grace, but given the growth in violent crime, does the Minister agree that it is both expedient and prudent to continue to plan to accommodate a significant increase in the prison population?”
“My interest is in the register. The Secretary of State rightly spoke about the robust rules of engagement. I am inclined to support the deployment, but I have a reservation. Perhaps he can reassure me by telling me that he shares my anger and indignation that a soldier carrying out his mission in Iraq can be cleared of wrongdoing by his commanding officer and yet be arraigned at the Old Bailey? That is an outrage.”
“Does the Chancellor agree that the simple cancellation of debt is perhaps one of the least effective ways to ensure that money is spent for the relief of poverty under what are, after all, some of the less accountable regimes in the world?”
“Will the Minister set out for the House the standards by which the best interests of the patient are to be determined? It is certainly not clear from the Bill.”
“My hon. Friend will recall that when I asked the Minister about that principle, he said that the standards would be such that all sorts of people—relatives and the rest—would be consulted about such things as their values. Does my hon. Friend agree that that, by any standard, is a subjective test of what is best for the patient, rather than an objective one?”