Huw Irranca-Davies
Afan Ogwr Rhondda Llywydd · Welsh Labour and Co-operative Party · Wales
“However, we have in the past sought to shoulder some of this financial burden with local authorities to prevent householders having to pay towards these costs—so, for example, properties that were impacted by historical lead and copper smelting in Coedpoeth in Wrexham, and Craig y Don, Anglesey.”
“We've also made an extra £52 million available for on-farm infrastructure investments, and a further £14 million for the agriculture and horticulture sectors in 2025.”
“There is some evidence to suggest that a small number of these sites have indeed, historically, received chemical waste, including, as you mentioned, Delyth, potentially—potentially—polluting substances such as PCBs or other chemical compounds.”
“Well, I notice that Paul Johnson of the IFS, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, also says that the impact will be limited. But I would suggest as well that, here in Wales, where the characteristic of Welsh farming is smaller than some of the megafarms that we see in the UK, the impact will be less than it is across the wider parts of Engla…”
“Natural Resources Wales also provide a regulatory role in some sites in certain circumstances—so, for example, if groundwater is impacted. I might go on a little bit, Delyth, because there's more I want to say on this issue.”
“Yes, I can come back with more detail on what we're doing on slate tips as well and the safety of slate tips, because the same principle applies in terms of the safety of any tips that we have in Wales, and I think some of our lead-in applications that we're doing on coal tips are also applicable in other tips as well where we've got that…”
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“Diolch. Yn olaf, ni fydd yr heriau a ddaw yn sgil y safleoedd a adawyd ar ôl y gorffennol diwydiannol yn cael eu datrys dros nos, ond bydd yn cymryd amser ac adnoddau pwrpasol i weithio drwyddynt. Fel Llywodraeth, rydym yn defnyddio pob ysgogiad sydd ar gael i ni i ddatblygu’r rhaglenni yr wyf wedi’u hamlinellu heddiw ar fyrder, gan fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd i ymateb i'n hargyfyngau hinsawdd a natur. Rwy’n parhau i fod yn ddiolchgar i’n partneriaid allweddol am eu cymorth i gyflawni a datblygu’r gwaith hwn, yn enwedig yr Awdurdod Glo a’n hawdurdodau lleol. Diolch i Delyth ac Aelodau eraill am y ddadl heddiw.”
“Part of that is having a robust regulatory system in place, ensuring that industrial and waste management and other operators closely manage their environmental responsibilities, and additionally, our local authority planning system ensuring that brownfield sites impacted by polluting activities in the past are investigated and remediated as part of the redevelopment process, ensuring they're safe and fit for purpose. This process is paid for, by the way, by the developers of these sites. It helps us to regenerate areas that have been impacted by legacy land uses in the past, bringing them back into beneficial use whilst also safeguarding this and future generations and end-users from the wider historical pollution.”
“Okay. Let me go away and reflect on that with my officials. What you don't want to put out there is information that's confusing, misleading or unduly worrying for the public, if sites are being assessed and then it's said, 'Well, okay, there's not an identifiable risk there.' But, let me go away and reflect on that. Dirprwy Lywydd, it's really important to safeguard this and future generations, getting them to the point where we can help avoid having to deal with some of the legacy issues we now have.”
“And I would encourage, Dirprwy Lywydd, all local authorities in Wales to follow this example set by Caerphilly to regularly review and, where necessary, assess those sites that may potentially cause harm or environmental pollution. And just to say as well, under the Part 2A legislation, local authorities are required to maintain a register of contaminated land in their areas. These registers are publicly accessible as well. And in addition, the Welsh Government, working with Natural Resources Wales and local authorities, has collated additional information on sites potentially impacted by contamination. This was published, Delyth, in 'The State of Contaminated Land' report during 2016. [ Interruption .] Go for it, but I'm really up against time.”
“Now, they've put a lot of hard work into this and a lot of commitment. The council are now close to determining the regulatory status of the site and what future interventions may be required, and I think we'll all be looking forward to what they bring forward. I know that some Senedd Members have, indeed, engaged with the council on this matter, and I thank them for this. And they'll be aware of some of the work that has been undertaken. But my officials and also partner organisations such as NRW and Public Health Wales as well will continue to engage with and support the council in their assessment of Ty Llwyd.”
“There is some evidence to suggest that a small number of these sites have indeed, historically, received chemical waste, including, as you mentioned, Delyth, potentially—potentially—polluting substances such as PCBs or other chemical compounds. So, a number of local authorities have invested now quite considerable resource into monitoring and assessing these sites to establish if they pose an unacceptable risk. So, for example, I've been carefully monitoring the progress of the work being undertaken now by Caerphilly County Borough Council at Ty Llwyd—it was mentioned earlier on in the debate—near Caerphilly. In line with their regulatory duties, they've put a significant amount of resource into assessing the site and ensuring that it does not pose an unacceptable risk to the local community or the wider environment.”
“So, there are ways to do it. Several of the sites, some of the ones that you referred to as well, have included historical landfill sites, such as Brofiscin quarry and a former landfill in Groes-faen as well. And both of those have then, as part of that programme, had remediation on them. However, I am aware that there are still some sites, including some of those referenced here today, which may have the potential to cause environmental harm. Now, unfortunately, these sites originally operated without the same environmental controls, without the same regulatory framework that we now have in place today, and that's an argument for regulation, by the way. When some people tell us to strip away regulation, we've got to have the right regulation in place environmentally.”
“However, we have in the past sought to shoulder some of this financial burden with local authorities to prevent householders having to pay towards these costs—so, for example, properties that were impacted by historical lead and copper smelting in Coedpoeth in Wrexham, and Craig y Don, Anglesey. We've also previously provided local authorities and NRW with over £12 million of funding through our discretionary contaminated land capital grants scheme, which operated between 2005 and 2011 on some of the most contaminated sites, and more recently again when we identified other sites in 2017-18. This allowed the priority sites to be targeted based on the risks that they posed, and we actually targeted that at 100 sites to be investigated and assessed. And because of this, 21 sites across Wales are now being remediated through grant funding.”
“Natural Resources Wales also provide a regulatory role in some sites in certain circumstances—so, for example, if groundwater is impacted. I might go on a little bit, Delyth, because there's more I want to say on this issue. So, the Part 2A legislation operates on a polluter-pays principle, so the liability for remediation falls either on a class A person, those who knowingly permitted a pollutant to be in, on or under the land, or a class B person, an owner or occupier of the land, in circumstances where no class A person can be found. And when neither are found—and we have some of these—then the site effectively becomes what's termed an orphaned site. Now, the Welsh Government recognises that, in those instances where the original polluter is no longer in existence, cost recovery is really difficult.”
“So, in addition to the coal tip safety programme, we'll also look to deal with problematic sites, using the legislation that we've got in place. Now, this does include, Dirprwy Lywydd, Part 2A of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, where local authorities, as the lead regulator, have a duty to identify land contamination, which may potentially pose a pollution risk to human health or the wider environment—to identify those within all of their areas. If, following inspection and assessment of a site, the land is determined to be contaminated land, they also then have a duty to ensure it is remediated appropriately. I'm not sure—. I might have to do a fourth intervention in a moment, but I'll run out of time.”
“Yes, I can come back with more detail on what we're doing on slate tips as well and the safety of slate tips, because the same principle applies in terms of the safety of any tips that we have in Wales, and I think some of our lead-in applications that we're doing on coal tips are also applicable in other tips as well where we've got that industrial heritage. I was going to touch a little bit on the issues around metal mine remediation as well, but I'm going to skip over those for today, because I want to address some of the points that were raised by contributors to the debate. So, whilst we're considering the industrial legacy, waste disposal sites, metal mines, coal tips and more, the overarching priorities have got to be safeguarding human health and protecting the wider environment.”
“We've got to be precise in how this funding is used across all eligible sites in Wales, and, by the way, any landform that meets the agreed definition of a disused tip will be considered as eligible.”
“Rhun, we will keep on making the argument, and I think what we have seen here is a signal difference. The £25 million is the first tranche of an instalment, but it was noticeable, as we said on the floor yesterday in response to recent events, the difference, the tangible difference, when a Prime Minister of the United Kingdom actually picks up the phone, when we hear that there is a slip, and says, 'What can I do?' and we're following that up. We will go back to the UK Government and say, 'In light of the weekend's events, what can we do now? How can we accelerate that programme of investment?' in line with the capacity to actually use it productively as well. But in the meantime, our focus is going to be on delivering the current allocation. We've got to be structured.”
“Yes. We'll certainly make the case for the increased investment, and in line with our capacity to use it as well. The worst thing in the world would just be having investment dumped on us that we cannot then get on with, so I think we've got a programme that we need to put in place—I can see Rhun wants to come in—so that we can actually use the funding that becomes available. Rhun.”
“Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd, a diolch hefyd, Delyth, am gyflwyno’r ddadl bwysig hon heddiw, ac i’r Aelodau eraill am eu cyfraniadau gwerthfawr. Fel yr ydych wedi tynnu sylw ato, mae gan Gymru dreftadaeth ddiwydiannol falch. Fodd bynnag, mae llawer o’n cymunedau, gan gynnwys y rhai a oedd unwaith yn pweru’r byd yn ystod y chwyldro diwydiannol, bellach yn cael eu gadael gydag etifeddiaeth anodd sy'n effeithio ar bobl a lleoedd. Ledled Cymru, mae bron 2,600 o domenni glo a thua 1,300 o fwyngloddiau metal, yn ogystal â miloedd o safleoedd sy'n gysylltiedig â mathau eraill o weithgarwch diwydiannol.”
“I'm proud of our collaboration, and thanks to that hard work, I was able to publish the revised scheme, which I strongly believe works for farmers and the environment. So, whilst the progress we've made is significant, this isn't the final scheme, there's work to be done, but I'm very grateful to all those who have collaborated with me.”
“As Members know, a succession plan will be unique to every single farm business; there is no one-size-fits-all option. Every family is different; every business is different. That's why Farming Connect support includes facilitated family succession meetings, one-to-one succession surgeries, and subsidised business and legal advice. Farming Connect is important in this space. It is right that we focus our Welsh Government resources on providing this support, and also on securing a sustainable future for Welsh farming. Now, on Monday, as Members will know, I announced a revised sustainable farming scheme, after working very closely indeed with the farming industry and unions throughout the summer.”
“We've also made an extra £52 million available for on-farm infrastructure investments, and a further £14 million for the agriculture and horticulture sectors in 2025. And, by the way, Dirprwy Lywydd, we also worked with the UK Government to secure an extension of agricultural property from 6 April 2025 to land that is managed under an environmental agreement, including the sustainable farming scheme. We also provide £11 million a year to Farming Connect, which provides advice and guidance to support business owners and their families, including support to develop a succession plan, which many Members in the Chamber often talk to me about, the importance of succession plans. So, through Farming Connect, farming families can be supported to have fully funded facilitated family meetings to discuss farm succession and develop that plan.”
“Now, let me just say, farmers make a crucial contribution to our economy, our environment as well, and our communities right across Wales, and that's why the Welsh Government is so very committed to supporting the farming sector. In fact, the farming sector is one of the sectors of the economy that receives most Welsh Government funding. So, for example, we have already protected the basic payment scheme budget at £238 million for 2024—the same level as 2023—despite, I have to say, the budget pressures that we face. We've also announced the continuation of BPS for another year, and several key schemes for 2025, to provide as much certainty as possible to farming families for the year ahead.”
“Well, I notice that Paul Johnson of the IFS, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, also says that the impact will be limited. But I would suggest as well that, here in Wales, where the characteristic of Welsh farming is smaller than some of the megafarms that we see in the UK, the impact will be less than it is across the wider parts of England. But I think it's really important that everybody takes individual advice rather than speculating on what the generality of the impact would be, and I know farmers are doing that at this moment. It's also important to note that farmers right across the board, as I've said, rely on those important public services as well, so bearing this in mind, including that this is, in the end, a reserved matter for the UK Government, our role is indeed to push for Welsh voices to be heard.”
“Mae'n bwysig cofio cyd-destun y tu ôl i benderfyniad Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig, sef yr angen dybryd i ddelio â'r twll du o £22 biliwn yn ein coffrau cyhoeddus a achoswyd gan anhrefn economaidd y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd ddiwethaf, a'r newid a wnaed i'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus. Dyna'n union yr un gwasanaethau cyhoeddus y mae pob ffermwr yn eu defnyddio ac yn dibynnu arnyn nhw, gan gynnwys ysgolion, ffyrdd ac ysbytai ac ati.”
“Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Yn gyntaf, diolch am y cyfle i drafod y newidiadau i'r dreth etifeddu ar eiddo amaethyddol, sydd, fel rydym ni'n gwybod, yn fater sydd wedi'i gadw'n gyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig. Rwy'n deall bod llawer o aelodau ein cymuned ffermio yn poeni'n arw am y newidiadau i ryddhad ar drethu eiddo amaethyddol. Dwi wedi gwrando ar y gofidiau hyn ac wedi cael trafodaethau adeiladol ag undebau'r ffermwyr. Yn dilyn fy nhrafodaethau ag undebau'r ffermwyr am y newidiadau i'r rhyddhad ar drethu, dwi wedi gofyn i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig am addewidion, ac wedi cael addewid y bydd clust i glywed lleisiau undebau'r ffermwyr ac y caiff amgylchiadau unigryw ffermwyr Cymru eu hystyried.”
“Do you contradict the factual analysis from Treasury that, in 2018-19 to 2021-22, 47 per cent of the benefit of the reliefs went to the top 7 per cent of estates making claims, or their analysis of those, who are investors in the alternative investment market shares model, they're not farmers with mud on their boots? So, do you dispute those figures?”
“There is also, by the way—for those businesses that want to avail themselves of it—support, for example, through the Development Bank of Wales, with the Wales micro loan fund, which offers fast-tracked loans between £1,000 and £50,000. But contact Business Wales—a quick plug for it, Llywydd—03000 603 000, in the first instance, to seek their advice, their guidance, their signposting. We need to help everybody through this.”
“Peter, thank you for this. I mentioned that we've already had discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language on support that we may be able to make available to businesses. We have to also take stock of the impact as well, and we can do that, I think, fairly rapidly, to see the impact in different local authority areas. This does show the importance, by the way, of working with local authorities here, so we don't try and double guess it. One of the things I would say already, in addition to the support that has been announced for householders, particularly those without insurance as well, perhaps I can appeal to you and other Members to help direct people to the support that is available and the advice available from Business Wales, who can help with post-flood recovery business support.”
“We haven't concluded that yet, but we'll continue those discussions, because we want these clubs to be up and running as well. It's a question of resilience for them as well.”
“But, in addition to the money that we've put in, I'm delighted that, finally—finally—we have a UK Government that recognises it has a role to play as well, and it has put £25 million in. We'll continue to work with the UK Government, not just in the light of events we've seen in the last few days, but in the willingness that they've shown to work with us—the fact that the Prime Minister rang the First Minister on Sunday night to say, 'What can we do to help?' So, we'll continue to work with them. In response to the issues on sports clubs, we're very aware of some of the clubs that have been really badly affected. My colleague Jack Sargeant has been in touch with me already. We're having discussions, including with the governing bodies as well, about what support may be made available.”
“Natasha, thank you very much. First of all, we have to be always vigilant on coal tips. Just to point out that Cwmtillery coal tip is a category D, it's one of the higher risk ones. But, because of that, it's inspected at least twice annually, under the coal tip safety programme. That's the programme that's been put in place by Welsh Government. We are pleased, as I indicated in response to a previous question, to have spent in excess of £60 million on the programme of monitoring and maintenance, which has meant that a couple of thousand and more inspections have been made across Wales only in the last three years. We need to keep that going, so there's a revenue funding element to this.”
“Jenny, listen, I'm more than happy to take that away and speak with my fellow Cabinet Secretaries. You are right—porous surfaces have a real part to play. Greenery in urban environments, particularly, but also wider in residences and businesses, has a part to play, as do sustainable drainage systems and so on, and there's some groundbreaking stuff going on in Cardiff in that as well. All of these have to play a part, and so does a whole-catchment approach now as well to, in your words, make more room for water, and making sure that it's slowed down, particularly in our steep valleys, but also when it gets down here to Cardiff and the surface water flooding that we have as well. All of those have got to play a part, but, yes, I'll happily take that away and speak with Cabinet colleagues on that.”
“But we'll also keep the investment going as well because that is vitally important, but I think that, honestly, the last thing that we need is to try and set up a new agency just focused on this, when what we need to do is co-ordinate effectively all those agencies on the ground.”
“We also asked the National Infrastructure Commission for Wales to assess how flooding in Wales can be minimised, looking at that long term by 2050, and that review is looking very much to the future. It has numerous recommendations on how to improve flood risk management in Wales. NRW actually undertook their own review into the flood events following February 2020—a number of recommendations that they are now delivering, rather than waiting for the next time to do a review. So, the reviews that we've done already have shown us what we need to do, and we're getting on with it. We will, under the section 19 duty, do reviews. We will be meeting next week with all of the people involved in the resilience forum as well to see what further we can learn in that debrief with me and the First Minister.”
“Darren, thank you for that question. Can I just say genuinely I do not think we need to look at restructuring organisations to have a focus on flooding? The investment that we've put into NRW for flood management and risk management is significant—it is at record levels. Their response to these flooding events on the front line have been, as many others, quite exemplary, but they will have lessons to learn. And as you rightly said, following storm Dennis, we commissioned then a review of the flood investigation processes—it was part of our agreement, actually, with Plaid Cymru. It led to flood investigation section 19 reports conducted by Professor Elwen Evans, published in August 2023.”
“Hefin, thank you for that question. We don't, as the Welsh Government, make our own direct assessment in those local areas and so on. We quite properly put that to the risk management authorities, and they look at all the assets within a particular area that can contribute to flood resilience and flood management. So, rather than fall to the Welsh Government, it is those people who know on the ground, much closer to the ground, what contributes to flood management and risk management within their areas. So, if you or constituents have queries on particular assets and their contribution to it, could I direct you then to that risk management authority, which includes, of course, your local authority there within the area as well?”
“There were no major concerns raised at that point, although, as demonstrated in these recent events, we need to be always vigilant and aware of the risks that extreme weather events now pose to these tips. There have been more than 2,200 inspections now of our disused coal tips completed since 2020. So, we're getting on with the work, but we now need to do more. This is a heck of a reminder for us all, and for the UK Government as well, and I was delighted, I have to say, that, on Sunday evening, the Prime Minister picked up the phone and rang the First Minister and said, ‘How can we help? What can we do?’ And I think that's a sign now, I hope, of a partnership going forward in this part of our industrial legacy.”
“That means it's the regime that we've already put in place to analyse where the tips are, what level of risk they are, and the higher the risk, the more maintenance and monitoring they have in place already. But we will also bring that Bill forward, which will strengthen significantly the way we monitor and we manage these tips. But we do need to get on using the investment we've put in already, plus this instalment of £25 million from the UK Government now, to start tackling that legacy of the industrial revolution here in Wales for those coal tips. Just to clarify as well, which might be of help, Pred, the recent round of summer inspections of the category D tips concluded in September.”
“Pred, thanks very much, and thanks for the work that you and others are doing engaging with your communities, and making sure that their concerns are communicated to the agencies and that there's a response in a timely way. And I agree with you—my thanks to the volunteers and the agencies on the ground, who often take a hell of a lot of stick, but they're out there, trying to work with these communities in response to this major event that we've seen. In respect of coal tip safety, one thing to point out is that we've already provided over £65 million from this Welsh Government to the Coal Authority and our local authorities to undertake key activity, supporting the Welsh Government programme on coal tip safety.”
“But what struck me this morning in Skenfrith was it wasn't only to do with the big scheme being developed—NRW were with me, and the local authority leader was with me as well, as they were hearing about smaller scale investment, which is also part of the stream that we put into local authorities. It could be in individual house defence, or it could be in pumps, or it could be in whatever, and there was a willingness in that community to work with the funding streams and the agencies to see what would work for them. So, I think each community is going to be quite different, but NRW are keen to progress the scheme—the bigger scheme as well—and to work with residents to get it right.”
“And, of course, they have not only the main river there, but they have a brook, which is also bringing it in, with the confluence of those two things, and the sheer deluge that they had. What did strike me though as well was what an incredible community that was, where everybody was supporting each other. That was the heart-warming part of it. NRW, even though they paused the work that they had on the scheme temporarily, which was regrettable, it was because they were faced, I understand, with rising inflation costs of construction that have gone on in the last couple of years, but I'm informed that they're continuing to develop the scheme in-house and they are liaising with key stakeholders as well on that.”
“Well, first of all, look, I agree with you, we need to recognise the scale of the impact right across your region and in many parts of that region that you cover, including in places like Skenfrith. It was good to be on the ground there with people this morning, because it is heartbreaking when you see those homes. Even when you have people who have been flooded before, and anticipate that they will be flooded again, to go through the ground floor of their homes and see their furniture affected and stuff outside waiting for the dump there, it's really heartbreaking. And some of those properties are older properties as well, so, unlike some of the modern defences that you can put around some properties, the water, they were telling me, was coming up from under the floor, it was coming through the porous walls with the old mortar.”
“In Cwmtillery—and I know you’ve been closely involved with the engineers on the ground as well, looking at this—we understand it’s caused by a new, single source of water, but the investigations are ongoing to determine the source. It could potentially be a spring or something like that, and it has affected the western edge of those former tips there. But what we do have is good engineers who can go in there, assess the stability and assess that everything is safe before people go back in. But we do want those people to be back in their houses and feel confident, safe and secure that they can carry on living there and sleep safely in their beds.”
“Alun, I agree with you entirely. We absolutely need to work to ensure that people can sleep safely in their beds at night. I applaud, like you, the work of the volunteers out there in cleaning up after these events, but also the front-line workers for the local authorities and others. They were there through the night in Cwmtillery, they went through the misery that impacted that community, with the evacuation of the homes. I was pleased to see that they were, that evening—the fast work to get them into hotels and accommodation, and families with young children as well, but their homes were left behind. The mess was appalling, but, within 24 hours, the people were there with spades and with diggers and they were trying to clean that up.”
“Welsh flood forum. Listen, I really recognise the importance of them, as I've said repeatedly. I see them quite often when I'm out and about on my travels, and I'm always willing to meet with them and discuss the help that they can give. And part of that is not only in the advice on community resilience, but it's actually the mental health and well-being support that they also give.”
“Yes. Businesses are not covered by Flood Re. So, businesses have a real challenge, but that is exactly why putting additional support in place for businesses that can help those affected, like the ones we saw yesterday, is important. Because if insurers are unable or unwilling to provide insurance, what we can do is the investment in flood resilience that allows those businesses to get back on their feet very rapidly and open the hairdressers, open the coffee shop, open the book shop and get them back on their feet as soon as possible. That is what we can do. We can't provide insurance, but what we can do is enable them to be more resilient and get back on their feet. I can't read my own writing here—”
“There have been, in Wales, I understand, 19,000 policies under Flood Re since the launch and there are currently just short of 16,000 of those policies in place. I'm happy to write to you if you don't have that—”
“But what that does mean is that we now need to learn the lessons from this about which communities, which households, which businesses are exposed. So, direct them into those local resilience fora and those partners on the ground. On the insurance, can I just urge everybody to look again at their house insurance? I've spoken to many people in the last few days. Many people are still not aware that there is a UK-wide scheme, put in place quite a few years ago, called Flood Re, which allows home owners to access insurance, including those who've been refused insurance or who've been flooded in the past. Now, Flood Re is put together by the Association of British Insurers and they've recently conducted a UK-wide awareness campaign to promote the importance of insurance and the availability of affordable flood insurance.”
“Thank you, Heledd, for those questions there. First of all, those who were previously, you say, refused floodgates, I think they now need to engage once again, because one of the lessons we need to learn is what are those properties that now, we see, are exposed. I think this is the reason why we have those local agencies on the ground—NRW, the local authorities, the local resilience forums as well. Engage with them again, direct those constituents to them and have that conversation again. Because what we have seen in this is that it was distinctly different from storm Dennis, even though we had parts of the south Wales Valleys where the intensity actually exceeded, in individual localities, storm Dennis, but it was very different in the way it played out.”
“It puts a statutory duty on authorities to investigate and to report on flooding incidents. But, as I say, we will be meeting with all of the flood resilience forum members next week to review a week on—because we have to give them time; at the moment, they're in the active response still—to see what lessons we can learn now early, and then take the actions, rather than spend months and months reviewing. I think that we can get very, very quickly to where the additional investment is needed in different parts of Wales and also the actions, big and small, that we need to take, and then get on with it. That's what we did after storm Dennis, that's what we need to do now as well.”
“But, actually, we've invested in probably the most up-to-date multimedia platform for flood alerts in the whole of the UK at the moment here, informed by the latest up-to-date weather systems from the Met Office. But, clearly, the responsiveness to rivers rising at the pace they did—something needs to be now looked at as to the sensitivity of those, as the agencies have acknowledged. It isn't the question that lessons weren't learnt, we actually got on with it. And that's the key thing: when faced with these sorts of incidents, you then need to actually debrief, review, take forward your section 19 duty, which if Members aren't aware is a duty under the Flood and Water Management Act 2010. I seem to remember being up in Westminster at that time, when that was going through.”
“Joel, thank you for that question, and my point of firm agreement with you is that the investment that we've put in and the properties that we have defended and protected and that have proven successful because of the lessons learnt after storm Dennis is of no solace whatsoever to those who have had their homes and businesses affected. But the reality is that we have protected hundreds upon hundreds of homes throughout Wales in the face of this latest trauma. That is a simple fact, Joel, and it's because of the lessons that we learnt. The question was raised earlier on, as people have rightly said, about the flood alert system, for example. The flood alert we'll need to review to see how it worked and how it didn't work, and to learn lessons.”
“We will keep that investment going. There are many projects in the pipeline already. But it won’t all be the huge ones that we see, although many of those within Pontypridd have actually saved properties and saved householders. It will also be those many small investments that actually keep the water flowing away from the towns, that people will never see, but actually local authorities are getting on doing because of the funding we’re putting in place. So, I would urge all Members to keep engaged with their local resilience forums, which operate all the way across Wales, work with constituents, explain the priorities of those constituents so that those are reflected then in the investment that goes into your communities, because this won’t be the last time we see traumatic weather incidents.”