YouSaid · the spoken record

David Spiegel

lines on the record: 122
first: 2024-04-10
most recent: 2024-04-10
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Well, the filter that heard from the pain is, you know, it sounds kind of paradoxical. What are you talking about? Pain hurts, you know. But the degree to which it hurts has to do with more than just the signal traveling through the lateral spinothalamic tract. It has to do with how you interpret that signal. We have all kinds of somatic signals, some of which could be on the verge of discomfort, some of which aren't. And our brain's job is to interpret them and decide what to do about them.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that's one of the things about a lot of these psychedelic studies is that it breaks the whole model of keep occupying that receptor and blocking serotonin uptake and all this stuff. And it's just once or twice and the brain is like reset. It's rebooted. And that's where I think this interaction with the default mode network activity is very interesting because I think people reset their expectations of who they are, what they are, and what their symptoms mean in a way that lasts. And there's now a lot of, of course, there's often psychotherapeutic assistance with the psychedelicians, which is important. But some of that could be hypnotic construction too, and I don't think much of that has been done. But it would be very interesting to do, I agree with you.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Not just improving PTSD, which I kind of expected PBI traumatic brain injuries and it stays down, goes down and it stays down.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I agree with you. I'd be a terrific thing to do and maybe in Nolan's next study he just published a paper on music iBogain. With astounding results, I mean, just”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Highly hypnotizable people have more binding of Gaba in the interior singulate than low hematizable people, so they can use it to be their own little drug dispensaries, to inhibit the anxiety reaction in the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex. So there are many understandable neurophysiological ways by which the brain can literally take the strain out of pain.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Shocks are administered, and in the hypnosis condition, we were able to stop the P one hundred the first response cold, there was no response of the brain when they were in hypnosis in the first tenth of a second, and that P two hundred and P three hundred were half as big as ordinarily. So within a fraction of a second, the brain is processing the signals differently. And as I mentioned, there are studies that show you can turn down activity in the anterior cingulage, you can turn out activity in somatosensory cortex. So the brain is saying this is not as bad as I initially thought it was, and I don't have to pay as much attention to it. It doesn't have to hurt me as much because very often we amplify pain rather than diminish it by being so annoyed that it's happening. And another thing that we know is going on in the brain is the anterior cingulate is rich in gaboreceptors, gamma-aminoguty acid.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We have to take very good care of our fragile bodies. And so we have a brain that is designed to help you recognize when you're hurt and get help and manage the pain. But for example, freeze, not necessarily move so a predator could detect you more easily. So pain is a combination of those peripheral signals coming in and what your brain decides is wrong and what to do about it. And so very often chronic pain is really not anything you need to do anything about, but your brain often treats it as if it were acute pain. Here I am, and so it derails you and it annoys you and it keeps you from doing what you want to do. And the more annoying it is, the more attention you pay to it. It's like the noisy kid in the classroom, you know. And so you can learn to modulate that. So we showed in one experiment with Stanford students. We gave them electric shocks. We measured somatosensory evoked responses. So you can see waveforms coming out up to a second after the...”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, what's happening is, and we've got EEG studies, we've got fMRI studies, we've got PET studies showing that what's happening, if you think about it, that pain is always a combination of peripheral input through the lateral spinothalamic tract, through the thalamus, to the periaqueductal gray, and up to the somatosensory cortex with input from the salience network. So if you just broke your arm, the salience network is going, God, you're in trouble, you better do something. The problem is because we're fairly pathetic physical creatures.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Dull sit down. There you are To teach you how to do this, and you could follow along. And it's interactive. So I'll ask you, is your hand floating? If it is, I'll tell you one thing. If not, it's something else. So it's a branch chain kind of response that I tried to make as much like being across the table or in my office as I could.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Wanted to do it five minutes a day, you could remember what I told you, or you could queue up the pain control app on Riverie, and you'd get to hear my mellifluous voice teaching you and exercises that.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All right, you can let it float back down now. And how's your left-handed arm feeling now? So you were able to change sensation in both directions. And how's your lower back feeling”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And instead, you're saying, okay, it's there. I don't like it, but it's not bad. And that capacity to reframe, to reprocess the signal is a powerful way of better managing pain, filtering the herd out of the pain. Now please take your right hand and touch your left elbow and then let go See what happens to your left hand and arm.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, I would say it's reinterpreting the sensations and signals that you're getting from that part of your body. And you're uncoupling them from the usual sense of annoyance and limitation that tends to actually make it worse.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Good. So notice how you're able to filter a lot of the discomfort and displeasure out of the usual pain situation by detaching from it By experiencing it differently it's not a sentence you have to endure it's a sensation your body is giving you that you can interpret in different ways.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Exactly. So you can observe it, but it feels different. And would it be fair to say that it's not as annoying as it usually is?”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One out of ten point five to one. Okay, good. So already, notice how you've been able to change sensation not just in a neutral part of your body, your left hand and arm, but in a part that has been problematic. I want you to imagine now that If you're lying on your belly, Maybe with a roll under you and feel a pleasant tingling numbness in your lower back. as if it were cooler or warmer or you were changing it from warmer to cooler. Illa pleasant tingling numbness and let it filter the hurt out of the pain. Each breast deeper and easier. Now again with your eyes closed and remaining in the state of concentration please describe how your body's feeling right now.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It feels like it's floating. Okay. And as you do that, let your left hand remain upright later when I ask you to touch your left elbow with your right hand and let go your usual sensation and control were returned. Right now. When I ask you to touch your left elbow with your right hand and then let go, your usual sensation and control will return. Right now, I want you to notice sensations in your back. What does your back feel like right now?”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm going to give you this instruction. If you pull your hand back down to the table with your right hand and then let go, it will float right back up to the upright position to see what happens. That's good, so you're putting it down, I'll let go. I see you smiling what's happening.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“As your wrist your elbow, and as you do that, develop a sense of tingling and numbness and lightness. and let your left hand float up in the air like a balloon. feel the tingling, that's good, and let it float up. You bend your elbow and you can rest your arm lightly on the table. And please describe what physical sensations you are aware of now in your left hand and arm.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Feeling better. So part of what you're doing is reinterpreting the signals you're getting in a different way. So let's try it if you want and see. So get as comfortable as you can. On one, please do one thing. Look up all the way up high as you can. Two, do two things. Slowly, close your eyes and take a deep breath. And three, do three things. Let the breath out, let your eyes relax but keep them closed and let your body float. Imagine your floating somewhere safe and comfortable like a bath, a lake, a hot tub, or floating in space. And then take your right hand and stroke the back of your left hand, starting with the tip of your left middle finger. Or you can put it on the table, that might be better. The back of your left middle finger down along the back of your left hand.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Much lower levels of medication too. And so it's an underutilized resource. Hypnosis is like an underappreciated company that hasn't been managed well and has a lot more positive resources. And that's what it's like. We just don't take advantage of it.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It may be for certain kinds of pain or certain kinds of problems you want to emphasize one or the other, but frankly, we have four different sets of instructions that involve either just going somewhere else, leaving your body here and going to a desert island and enjoying things, or imagining a physical remedy that actually reduces pain, a warm bath, or an iced bath or something like that, or move the pain around, see what it feels like to do that. And one other technique that's very helpful is teach people to have compassion for their bodies. This is like mindfulness in some ways. But, you know, if your body were a three-year-old child who'd been hurt, would you get frustrated and angry with it? Hell no. What would you do? Everybody says, I'd give him a hug and I'd stroke him and I'd try and make him feel better. So there are different language techniques we can use to get the same effect, which is to significantly reduce pain. We have randomized clinical trials that prove that hypnotic analgesia works at”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“On the language. So if you think what doctors say to patients, right, it is spellcasting, that's right, but no pointy hats or anything.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A century and a half to figure out that the brain actually has something to do with pain processing. And there are studies now showing which part of the brain just changing the words you use in hypnosis, which part of the brain is involved in the NLGs. So you significantly reduce pain in the somatosensory cortex if you say the hand that's receiving the shocks is cool tingling and numb filter the heart out of the pain. You get the same reduction in pain response if you say, well, the pain is there, but it won't bother you so much. Sort of like opioids, then you turn down activity in the dorsal anterior cingulate. So you can see different parts of the brain involved in pain processing and in hypnotic allergies.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, exactly. And when Ether was first introduced at Mass General ten years later, the surgeon strode to the front of the amphitheater to say, gentlemen, this is no humbug to distinguish Ether from hypnosis. Well, they were getting 90% anesthesia. And so Esdale withdrew his paper. He said, well, they're 10% better.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Frontier medicine, right? And he went to India and he reported 80% surgical anesthesia with hypnosis. And when 10 years later at Mass General,”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We've seen excellent results in helping people to manage stress. We're finding with Revere that about 80% of people within 10 minutes feel a significant reduction in their stress levels. It helps people focus, intensify their focus of attention, plan what they want to do, and then do it. It's a skill that they can learn to use very quickly. It's very effective with pain. It's one of the oldest uses of hypnosis with pain. In fact, there was a British surgeon named Hisdale who went to India and was using hypnosis. This was pre-ether anesthesia. Now, they would just get people drunk, have them bite on a block of wood, hold them down, and cut on them.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So we're hoping, that's right. I can see your face lighting up. I feel the same way, that we may be able For people we were studying people with fibromyalgia, people with chronic pain to enhance their hypnotizability and then use it to treat pain, which it is very effective for.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, no, it was one day. It was just one session, and then we measured a single session. Oh, yeah. It was not repeated like the treatment of depression or suicidal ideation.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The answer is absolutely yes, and Nolan and I and Afik firemen and a number of other members of Nolan's team just published a paper in Nature Mental Health, in which we took people who were less than highly hypnotizable, and we administered to them either accelerated TMS to the left or so lateral prefrontal cortex with the idea of regulating activity in the dorsal anterior cingulate using real versus sham TMS. So we could tell whether they got actually got the TMS or not. They couldn't tell. The paddle made the same noise, but they didn't know. And we were able to transiently significantly increase hypnotizability in the ones who got the real TMS and not in the ones who got the sham.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Compared to the side effects Of drugs like let's take opioids, for example, where last year eighty eight thousand Americans died of opioid overdoses and almost all of them were not suicides. They were just inadvertent overdoses of opioids. Hypnosis has not yet succeeded in killing anyone. It's just not dangerous”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There are very few. I'll tell you when we started reverie about three years ago, I was kind of worried because, you know, 30 years ago, I would not have dared to put an interactive digital hypnosis app out there on the web and just see what happened to people. I worry that people would have all kinds of ab reactions and dissociative reactions and terrible things could happen. But I thought, what the hell? I want people to have access to this and be able to try it. And we've had like three quarters of a million downloads and the number of potential problems we've had is less than 10. And none of them are serious. You know, some of them are ecstatic positive experiences, kind of like, you know, psychedelic ones. Most of them are periods of anxiety or stress that are easily reversible. And so the good thing about hypnosis is you can turn it on real fast. You can turn it off real fast. So the worst thing that happens most of the time is sometimes it doesn't work. So what? So you do something else.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Be able to relive it in a state where you're feeling different about who you are is a way of reprocessing and disconnecting from the sense of shame. Just saying, yes, it happened. I don't like it, but it's not the bottom line about me. And that's where depression with post-traumatic stress disorder are so harmful to people because it tarnishes their feeling about who they are as people. And if you can understand the experience, but disconnected in some ways from this default mode conclusion about what sort of a person you are, that can be powerfully therapeutic.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, this ability to sort of disconnect your self-hoot and in hypnosis, it's a rapid suspension of your usual selfhood. In psychedelic work, it's more this ego dissolution. It kind of dissolves. So it's a quicker, reversible form of something similar, which is playing with who you are and what you are. And that has tremendous therapeutic possibilities. Now, I think one reason MDMA works so well with PTSD is because it's the sort of human connection drug, you know, in these raves and everything. People suddenly feel connected with people they never even know or feel very different about their loved ones and how they connect with them. People who have been traumatized, who have PTSD, feel deep shame. And it's not because they've done anything wrong, but just to be treated like an object, like a thing is humiliating. And so to...”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is what's been called ego dissolution, and that you seem to just suppress activity in the default mode network. And so it becomes a kind of non-judgmental awareness where you see it happens, but you're sort of disconnected from it. So breast cancer patients dying of breast cancer have done very well with psilocybin trips. Now, I've for years worked with women who are dying of breast cancer. I know what it's like. And what struck me as similar and interesting is one of my group therapy patients said that looking at death in the group is like looking into the Grand Canyon when you're afraid of heights. You know, if you fell down, it would be a disaster, but you feel better about yourself because you're able to look at it. I can't say I feel serene, but I can look at it. So it's this odd kind of detachment where you can see it. And what they think about their death now is I still don't like the idea of dying, but what I can see now is what a miracle it is that I ever got to live at all. And so they see the same thing from two different perspectives.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There are but before I get to that, let me just. Backtrack a little bit on MDMA and psilocybin for PTSD because a lot of the things that the psychedelics have in common, although some are more hallucinogenic than others like psilocybin,”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You can try out being different. Instead of seeing this as just a total failure and disaster that messed up your wedding and all kinds of things, you can see it as evidence that you had the wherewithal in a matter of a split second to do something that saved your life. So it changes your view of yourself and who you are. And that's one of the terrific things about hypnosis is it allows you to try out being different, see what it feels like.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He said, well, he would have hit me dead on. And I said, so you saved your life. So it's tragic, it's a terrible thing that happened, but it could have been so much worse. So think about this not just from what went wrong but from what went right. What you did to help yourself. And he felt entirely different about the trauma after that. He was still unhappy about his leg being injured. But it's a way of restructuring your point of view about the problem. And that's where techniques, including hypnosis for trauma, can help people really change their perspective. The other thing that happens in hypnosis is the more you concentrate, use your prefrontal cortex, the less activity in the default mode network. Now, that's the part of the brain, the posterior cingulate, that's involved with self-reflection and self-understanding. And when you're not doing much, but thinking about yourself and who you are, you've got a lot of activity going on in the default mode. And if you can in hypnosis, turn that down,”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Guilt versus helplessness, that's exactly right. And I had him relive it in hypnosis. I said, let's go through this. And he said, I'm sitting on the thing having my lunch, and suddenly I realized that he's not going the way all the other cars were going. He's coming at me. And I just pushed myself away from a barrier next to me and fell forward, and that's when he hit my leg. And I said, I want you to look at this. What would have happened if you hadn't done that?”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You again from out of nowhere, you're saying, I'm going to spend some time thinking about this now. So you're doing it in an element of control that was completely absent when the trauma happened. That was just done to you. This is something you're doing to yourself in a controlled way with the prospect of a direct benefit. The second thing is cognitive restructuring is helping you to see an old problem from a new point of view, to understand it differently. You know, I was treating a California road worker who was in a construction zone when some idiot went the wrong way and hit him with a car. He was taking a rest on his brake. It was two days before his wedding. He had bad ankle fracture. He had just pushed himself out of the way as the car was coming and he was miserable, you know, and his fiance was miserable. And he just said, why didn't I see this coming? And time and again, if I had a nickel for every traumatized person, either sexual assault or physical assault that blamed me.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, it has been used. I mean, the VAs used it extensively. In helping combat vets with post traumatic stress disorder, the fact that you summon up a traumatic event and then you picture it, become aware of the emotions that come along with it can be a component of effective psychotherapy. I think that two things that matter the most, and what I do when I use hypnosis in treating PTSD is, number one, the control with which you summon it. I've always wondered if exposure therapy works so well. Why don't flashback secure PTSD? I mean, flashbacks are symptoms of PTSD. You're reliving the event as though it were happening again. And the difference, I think, is that there's no control. You feel reattacked by the memory the way you did the trauma. And so I think with EMDR, like other psychotherapies like exposures therapies, cognitive reframing therapies, you in a controlled situation bring up a traumatic memory. So it's not hitting.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Moving back and forth. So I think there's a lot that's hypnotic in the MDR. But to tell you the truth, every study that has deconvoluted eye movements from everything else that goes on in the MDR has shown that the eye movements don't have much to do with it. And toward the end of her career, Francine Shapiro stopped. She then did tapping rather than eye movements and other things. But it's not at all clear to me that the actual eye movements have anything much to do with the outcome. So it's another therapeutic technique, but I have to say that my overall impression is that what's good about it isn't new and what's new about it isn't good.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is in itself therapeutic. So exposure therapy and cognitive restructuring are two very prominent ways of helping people deal with trauma. And EMDR has components of that. But, and if you think about it, is it anything like hypnosis? Well, what was the oldest way of inducing hypnosis? Remember the dangling watches? You know, what are your eyes doing when you're doing that?”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“EMDR's eye movement desensitization and reprocessing, Francine Shapiro developed this, and it's a widely used technique. The VA uses it a lot to help people with trauma and hypnotic-like techniques are very helpful with trauma, and I'll be glad to talk about that. But her idea was that somehow you facilitated communication between the hemispheres if you had people move their eyes back and forth while they were discussing a traumatic experience. Now, the certainly good idea in this is that we now know more and more that re-exposure under controlled”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Movements are very much related to level of consciousness. The obvious thing is you close your eyes when you go to sleep. Drugs that affect the I and I movements are related to autonomic arousal. Your pupils get big when you're sympathetic nervous system is going on small when you're on opioids, for example. And the third, fourth, and sixth cranial nerve nuclei are surrounded in the brainstem by the reticular activating system, which is part of our arousal network. And so things that affect eye movements tend to affect arousal as well. And so we think it's an ability to shift gears, inhibit peripheral awareness, and intensify your focus, and that this is just, it's no accident that it's the same parts of the brain that regulatorous and eye movement that are associated with this eye roll.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It is about five seconds. All right. So look up past your eyebrows all the way up. Way, way up. And as you keep looking up slowly, close your eyes. Look up, close. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're a three to four. You're on the upper end because you keep your eyes way up. And I can barely see your iris as you start to close your eyes.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the IRL test is like a good initial guest. It's moderately correlated with formally measured hypnotizability. And my father discovered this. He was using eye fixation on a light on the ceiling of his office. And he noticed that the woman I mentioned who had the hysterical pseudosizures, he noticed that when he asked her to look up at that light and then close her eyes, all he saw was the whites of her eyes. They stayed up. After he made that movie that day, the following Monday he had one of the most obsessional men he'd ever seen, and he had the guy look up and he could not keep his eyes up as he was closing the eyelids. They came down and all he saw was his iris as they closed their eyes. So he began measuring that. And it turned out you can score people from zero to four on how much they're able to dissociate lowering the eyelid with lowering the eye. And that is an initial interesting indication of hepatizability. So if you want a quick five second test”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Information, B, it gives them useful information. And C, we're not blaming the victim here. If somebody is not hypnotizable, it's not because they're resisting because most people aren't. They're paying good money to see me and get help. And it's not because I'm not good at what I'm doing because I've learned something about it, although my first psychoanalytics supervisor said, yes, you didn't go into a trance despite having had 200 shock treatments because you're a lousy hypnotist. And I said, I don't think so. But it's nice because it makes it a neutral experience. It's one in which you try out and see what it's like. And they learn from it and I learn from it.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“young graduate student Dana Cortad, who actually developed a point of care genetic test for hypnotizability. So you can take a drop of blood and in a couple of minutes we can tell how hypnotizable you're likely to be. But we also have a test called the hypnotic induction profile that my late father and I developed that gives you like a six minute hypnotic experience, have your hand float up in the air. If you pull it down, will it flow right back up? Do you experience a loss of control in that hand? Do you respond to the signal ending that experience? Do you have a sense of floating lightness or buoyancy? So you get a score from 0 to 10. And that is likewise a very stable trait. It's something I have used with every one of the 7,000 people I've used hypnosis with in my career. And it helps me have a sort of common experience that is not initially connected to treatment, but just we both can see how much they can respond. And A, it gives me useful...”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the dorsal anterior cingulate. Now the cingulate cortex is like the C on its ends in the middle of the brain, and the dorsal front part is part of our salience network, the alarm system. It's the thing that if you hear a loud noise, you know, it distracts you. So the salience network is coordinated in highly hypnotizable people with the executive control network. And that makes sense. If they're working together, it's easier to lose yourself in an activity and not worry about whether you should be doing something else. We've actually found also there's a genetic component to that. There's a particular polymorphism of the gene that metabolizes dopamine, catychy, o-methyl transferase. And if you happen to have the methionine valine version of it, you have moderate metabolic rate, which keeps pretty high and stable levels of dopamine in the brain. And those people are more hypnotizable than those who are homozygous for either methion or valine. I had a brilliant...”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT