YouSaid · the spoken record

David Spiegel

lines on the record: 122
first: 2024-04-10
most recent: 2024-04-10
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“But they can benefit from techniques employing hypnosis because you learn to focus on what you're for, not what you're against. You don't fight a problem. You find a way to master it by joining it and focusing on a positive resolution, a self-reinforcing resolution of it. So hypnotizability, we know what's going on in the brain. We've taken high and low hypnotizables, put them in the functional MRI scanner. And there's an interesting thing that happens only in the highly hypnotizable people, and that is functional connectivity. That is when one reason is active, the other region is active between the left or silateral prefrontal cortex, which is part of the executive control network, the one I'm hopefully using now talking to you.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now, that's better than IQ. I mean, that's really something. And in general, what happens is they get divided into one of three groups, the people we call the poets highly hypnotizable, they still get totally absorbed in movies and caught up in things. That's about 20%. About 60%, we call them the diplomats. They'll have the experience, and then they'll think about it, negotiate it, and then go back and try it a little more and go back and forth. And there's 20% we call the researchers who just aren't very hypnotizable”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, hypnotizable is a Most eight-year-olds are in trances most of the time, as you know, if you call your eight-year-old in for dinner. He doesn't hear you. You know, he's doing his thing, work and player, all the same thing for kids. I don't know why we try to train them to be little adults because they have so much fun. But as we go through adolescence, Piaget talked about developing formal operations in adolescence where you begin to privilege reason over experience. Some of us lose some of that hypnotizability. You don't get as easily absorbed in things. You have to think them through logically first. By the time you're about 21, your hypnotizability becomes as stable a trait as IQ. And there was a study done at Stanford. They did a 25-year blind follow-up to former Psych1 students who had been, had their hematizability measured, and the test retest correlation was 0.7.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Important things, but it's about being rather than doing, whereas hypnosis is more doing than being. And hypnosis, you do it for a purpose. You do it to control pain, to manage stress, to get to sleep, to stop smoking, to eat more sensibly. So it's more intense, it's briefer. And it does emphasize the development of absorption and flow.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They're different, Tim, because in mindfulness, you're engaged in a somewhat different practice. It's open presence. You're not judging, you're not evaluating, you're just letting feelings and thoughts flow through you. And people learn to do it with great discipline over time, but it doesn't come naturally. You don't lose yourself in it the way you lose yourself in a movie. Now, eventually, some people do, but as you know from having considerable experience with it, that takes training and it's a struggle. Whereas the funny thing about hypnosis is, boy, if people are hypnotizable, they're in it just like that, even if they've never formally done it before. If you're hypnotizable, you just do it. So it's a kind of natural shift in attention, narrowing the focus that leads you along and gets you engaged in a flow-like experience. Whereas with meditation, you have open presence, you do a body scan, you cultivate compassion.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“in golf and basketball tiger trained with hypnosis he had a caddy who was helping him with hypnosis i've helped golfers do that you know there are a number of major basketball players who do it as well and it's a way of not worrying about whether you're going to hit the basket or not but what you need to do in your body to make the connection to do what you want to do and so hypnosis is like a flow state it's something that you just get in it to enjoy the feeling of doing it and how you relate to your body and by the way good things can happen when you do it”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Exactly. That's a self-hypnotic state, and I'm sure you're good at that. And one of the ways in which I help athletes, for example, I was asked to consult with the Stanford women's swimming team. They're terrific team. A lot of the women wind up in the Olympics. But the coach noticed that they were doing better in practice than they were in Meats. Their time was better. And I'm thinking, what the hell's going on here? Well, swimming is not a contact sport. And so the only person you're really competing with is yourself. And what the women were doing was distracting themselves by paying attention to the women in the lane on either side instead of being in touch with their own bodies, getting into a flow state by saying, how do I move through the water? How do I connect with my muscles? How do I coordinate them? We were being distracted from that. And so I got them in hypnosis to get into more of a flow state, to focus not on the outcome, but the process. And that's a key thing for athletes.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And his point, you know, he calls flow an autotelek experience. It's one that is self-rewarding. It feels good just to do it. And hypnosis is like that when you get really absorbed in experience, like do you ever get so caught up in a good movie that you forget you're watching a movie or drawing?”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, you're right. And it's because, you know, all have noticed is, frankly, self-hypnosis, that is, you don't need to watch somebody dangle a watch or have a develop a smallpox scar on their forehead. People can shift into this state of highly focused attention. And when they do, and one of the coolest things about the state is you tend to let go of your ordinary premises, not just about what's going on at that moment, but who you are, what kind of a person you are. And that's what scares people. You know, it's the stage show thing of the football coach dancing like a ballerina. There's a message there, not that hypnosis is good to make people look silly. It's that people can try out being different and see what it feels like. They can let go of their usual premises. And that's where hypnosis is something like flow state, toxent mehai. I knew him.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The more intensely focused you are, the more things you got to put outside of awareness to keep from distracting you. The third component, and in some ways the most interesting and hypnosis, is what used to be called suggestibility. You'll do anything I say if I tell you to do it, which is not exactly true. But the truth in it is that you are more cognitively flexible. We've done some research. Hafique Fairman, my postdoc and I did a study looking at the continuous performance task and people who are high and low hypnotizable. The task has subtle changes in the way you solve the problems you're solving, but they don't tell you what it is. So people who are more cognitively flexible will figure out quicker that the rules have changed and how you do it. And that highly hypnotizable people are very good at that. They're good at letting go of the old premise and hooking into the new one. So that's a kind of cognitive flexibility that is very valuable. And I think a key aspect of why hypnotism”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure. So hypnosis has three main components. I've already mentioned two highly focused attention or absorption, dissociation, putting outside conscious awareness things that are in consciousness. Right now, for example, hopefully you're so interested in what I'm saying that you're not aware the sensations of your feet touching the floor right now. If you were, we could just stop now.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Looking at him, looking at his eyes and listening to his words, they just tended to focus on the spot in his forehead. And many hypnotic inductions involve some kind of visual focus to narrow the focus of attention. When Andrew Huberman, my friend and colleague, was on your program, he was talking about that, the narrowing of attention just as the lens of the eye changes and limits the amount of information. You get this kind of heightened focus on the center of attention. So it changes your state of consciousness as well.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It was more the latter, it was more at first. I mean, later on, he was doing formal inductions, but what hypnosis is, Tim, is just a heightened focus of attention. It's like looking through a telephoto lens with a camera. You get fully absorbed in the center of your awareness. And things that ordinarily you'd be conscious of, noises on the outside, other things you dissociate. You put outside of conscious awareness.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And he started shooting nine minutes later, and I just said, this is a horrible breach of protocol. If he's going to be checking people, he ought to do something about it. And even if he didn't want to confront the guy directly, he could have called the police. The police got there in three minutes when they were called. It took the guy nine minutes to get ready to start shooting. It was a terrible thing. The lawyer, the defense lawyer, did not like what I was saying. And he said, well, Dr. Spiegel, you're not a security expert, are you? And I said, no, sir, I'm more of an insecurity expert. And I could hear the judge and the jury laughing. And that cost him a lot of money. So, I enjoy doing that on the side.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of my favorite moments doing that. I kind of have, you know, I like testifying in court because, and I was being grilled by some attorney one day and I'm thinking, I'm enjoying this. And then I thought, you're crazy, Spiegel. He's going after you. And I said, you know what? Compared to academic life, this is simple. Your friend is the guy at that table and your enemy is the guy at the table. And in academia, you never know where it's coming from. So this lawyer's going after it was a case that the United Parcel Service where a gunman, you know, employee gone off, came in with a bunch of guns in his pack, got through a metal detector, the guard was looking at his phone and not paying any attention.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I do that in my copious spare time. It's basically, in those situations, you work for an attorney, not for the patient. So you may assess the patient trying to decide what's wrong with him, but it's for the purposes of preparing a report, for example, some kind of emotional damage that was someone. evaluating a woman who terrible situation, one of the recent forest fires where she's on the phone with her mother as the mother's home was burning down in one of these fires. And it turned out that the community had not been adequately warned how bad this was going to be, and even worse her boyfriend didn't want to be bothered to go pick up her mother, so it was a very complicated emotional situation. So I was evaluating what the emotional consequences were for her of losing her mom.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It was kind of an inference. He's basically nonverbally communicating that I'm not just going to put you through the same misery over and over again. I'm going to show you how to manage it better. And so he taught her that if you can make it happen, you can make it happen differently. You can change the way it happens. And you're not going to get all the hysterical reactions around it. Her husband had his workbench at his factory put near the door. So when she had another seizure, he could rush out the door and go to her apartment and help her. That's how much panic it elicited. So he taught her that you can have this for whatever reason, but it doesn't have to be as bad. And over time, the more she did it, the more she kind of deconditioned the intensity of the seizures.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My father. So he's making a teaching movie and he invited me to come and watch. And he had her go back in hypnosis to the last time she had a seizure and her head starts to twist and shake and she's starting to have these convulsive movements. And he said to me, it's a lot easier to get people to start these symptoms than to stop them. You know, they've already tried to stop them. It didn't work. So the way you teach them how to control it is you teach them how to bring it on. And then he had her practice making them milder and milder and milder. And he cured her of her hysterical seizure.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And the guy said, Thank you, doctor, and he got up and walked with me. That he was telling himself physiologically I should not have moved. I should not have left him. And when my father helped relieve him of the guilt, and most people who have been traumatized would rather feel guilty than helpless. They'd rather find a way to blame themselves as though they could replay the movie and it would come out differently. And he was helping him face the fact that his buddy was gone and there was likely nothing he could do to stop it. So I'd hear those kind of conversations at the dinner table and they were pretty interesting. I got invited once to watch him treat a woman who had non-epileptic seizures. She's your father.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so he offered to teach Army docs how to use it. So my father took this course from doctor Vanishafenberg, and he used it to help soldiers deal with combat stress reactions, to deal with pain, the dinner table conversations were really interesting. He told me a story of one guy who developed a hysterical conversion paralysis. He couldn't use his legs. The guy said, they just don't work. I don't know what happened. So my father asked him about the context. And he said, well, We were ordered to retreat and I saw my best friend lying on the ground and I had to make a choice. Do I try and save him or do I follow orders? So I followed orders. I feel terrible. And, you know, maybe I could have saved him. And so my father, in hypnosis, said, I want you to look at your friend right now. And I want you to notice something. His boots are facing down. And that means he's already gone.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I am. My father was finishing his analytic training just at the beginning of World War II. And so he enlisted in the United States. And as he was getting off the couch, his handlist actually said something to him. He said, Herb, would you like to get a course in hypnosis? And my father was thinking, what was wrong with my free associations? Is he trying to fix me some other way or something? And his analyst said, no, there's a Viennese refugee, named Gustav van Schaffenberg, who was a forensic psychiatrist in Austria. He had a smallpox scar right smack in the middle of his forehead. And he noticed that as he's interviewing these prisoners, suddenly their heads would sort of nod, they'd closed their eyes and go into some kind of vulture state. So he got interested in hypnosis and was using it to help his prisoners.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'd be glad to. It's a good psychoanalytic thing to do I'm the child of not one but two psychiatrists and psychoanalysts. Both of my parents were, and they told me that I was free to be any kind of psychiatrist I wanted to be.”
2024-04-10 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #731: Dr. David Spiegel, Stanford U. — Practical Hypnosis, Meditation vs. Hypnosis, Pain Management Without Drugs, The Neurobiology of Trance, and More · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT