YouSaid · the spoken record

Matthew Johnson

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250

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2020-12-14

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2020-12-14

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1

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1. “It's like the United States, you can point to the horrors. Like any other country that's been around a long time that has these legitimate horrors and kind of dismiss like. These beautiful things, like, yeah, we have this modifiable constitutional republic that just. I still think it is the best thing going, you know, that as a model system of how humans have to figure out how to work together. It's like it's. There's no better system that I've come across.”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

2. “And then, in terms of our country, in terms of the United States, it's like, oh, we have all these horrible sins in our past. And it's like, I think about that like the. Think about it like my three year olds like, yeah, you can construct a story where this is all just you can look at that stuff and say this is all just horror. There's no logical answer to our rational answer to say we're not a disease on the planet. From one lens, we are. And you could just look at humanity as that. Like nothing but this horrible thing. You can look at any, and you name the system, you know, modern medicine, Western medicine, the university system. And it's like you can dismiss everything. Hopefully these vaccines work. And then I'd like to, you know, like. I'm kind of glad Big Pharma was a part of that.”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

3. “And that's part of like this we're going across different levels here, but like the idea that so-called bad trips or challenging experiences are so common in psychedelic experiences, it's like that's a part of that. Like, yeah, it's tough. And most of the important things in life are really, really tough and scary. And most of the things, like the death of a loved one, like the greatest learning experiences, the things that make you who you are are the horrors. And, you know, it's like, yeah, we try to minimize them. We try to avoid them. I don't know. I think we all need to get into the mode of like giving ourselves a break, both personally and societally. I mean, I went through, I think a lot of people do these days in my 20s. Humans are just kind of a disease on the planet.”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

4. “I don't know the meaning. I think the meaning of life is to find meaning. And I think I just described it a minute ago. It's like that transcendence of everything. It's the beauty despite the absolute ugliness. It's the... And as a species, and I think more about this, like I think about this a lot, it's the fact that We are, I mean, we come from filth. I mean, we're animals. We come from, we're all descendant from murderers and rapists. Despite that background, we are capable of the self-sacrifice and the connection and figuring things out, truth, science, and other forms of truth, you know, seeking and an artwork, just the beauty of music and other forms of art. It's like the fact that that's possible is the meaning. of life. I mean,”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

5. “Those merged together for me because it's just hard. I've been doing this research for almost 17 years and like not just the cancer study, but so many times people like. In one of our studies, someone who wasn't getting any treatment for anything, but one of our healthy normal studies where he was contemplating the suicide of his son and just these, I mean, just like the most intense human experiences that you can have and the most vulnerable situations, sometimes like people like, you know, and it's just like you have to have a And you just feel lucky to be part of that process that people trust you to let their guards down like that”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

6. “I would like to check me when I get a terminal cancer diagnosis. And I really hope I'm more in that realm. But I know enough about human nature to know that I can't really speak to that because I haven't been in that situation. And I think there can be a beauty to that and the transcendence of like, yeah, and you know, it was beautiful, not just despite all that, but because of that, because ultimately there's going to be nothing and because we came from nothing and we dealt with all this shit, the fact that there was still beauty and truth and connection, like. You know, like it just, it's a beautiful thing. But I hope I'm in that. It's easy to say that now. Like, yeah.”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

7. “Right What I am attracted to this idea And I organize it's easier said than done to say I'm okay with not existing. Like the real test is like, okay, check me on my deathbed. You know, it's like, it's all right, it's a beautiful thing and the humility of surrendering. And I really hope, and I think I'd probably be more likely to be in that realm right now.”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

8. “So it's like, we're going to fade out at some point. Like, you know, and then we get at this level of consciousness and like, okay, maybe there is life after death. Maybe there's maybe... That part I'm ready for, like, I'm like, you know, like that would be really great. And I'm looking, I'm not afraid of that at all. It's like even if it's just strange, like if I could push a button to enter that door, I mean, I'm not going to die. You're not going to kill myself, but it's like if I could take a peek at what that reality is or choose at the end of my life, if I could choose of entering into a universe where there is an afterlife of something completely unknown versus one where there's none, I think I'd say let's see what's behind that.”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

9. “Yeah, I think this is the, I mean, getting back to the psychedelics in terms of the people in our work with cancer patients who we had psilocybin sessions to help them and it did substantially help them. The vast majority in terms of dealing with these existential issues. And I think it's something we, I could say that I really feel that I've come along in that both like being with folks who have died that are close to me and then also that work, I think, are the two biggies and sort of like You know, I think I've come along in that sort of acceptance of this like like it's not going to last and even whether at the personal level or even at the species levels like at some point all the stars are going to fade out and it's going to be the realm of black which is going to be the vast majority if it continues unless there's a big crunch which apparently doesn't seem likely like most of the universe there's this blink of an eye that's happening right now that life is even possible like the era of stars”

   2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

10. “Titan, like whatever, you know, like, yeah, like that we have these colonies out there that would tell me like. Yeah, then at least we'd be good until the, you know, hopefully probably. Until the sun goes red giant. You know what I mean? Rather than, oh, like 20 years from now when there's some Someone with their finger on the nuclear button that just misperceives the radar, you know, like the signal, they think Russia's attacking, they're really not, or China. And that's probably how a nuclear accident war is going to start rather than, or like I said, these other horrible things.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

11. “Until, like, I mean, you know, like our son, like, and even beyond that, like, like, we're probably going to be talking about millions and millions of years. It's like, and we're, we're, I don't know, in terms of the planet, four billion years into this. And depending on how you count our species, millions of years into this, and it's like, this is like the point of the relay race where we can really screw up.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

12. “We're getting to this period, and then not to mention climate change, it's like, although I think that's not, there's probably going to be surviving humans with that regard, you know, but it could be really bad. These existential threats, I think the only real guarantee that we're going to get another, you name it, thousand million, whatever years is like. Diversity, diversify our portfolio, get off the planet. Don't leave this one. Hopefully we keep, you know, but like. It's like either we're going to get snuffed out really quickly or we're going to like if we reach that point and it's going to be over the next like 100 200 years like like We're probably going to survive”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

13. “Like the time we're in now, it's like with the nuclear weapons, with pandemics, and with, I mean, we're going to get to the point where anyone can build a hydrogen bomb. Like, you know, it's like the example or engineer something that's a million times worse than COVID and then you spread it. It's like.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

14. “In my lifetime, even if I live to a ripe old age, but I don't know. Is this going to work out? Are we going to escape the planet? I think that's one of the biggies. Like, are we going to like the survival of the speed? Like, I think the next.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

15. “Like not being there with a three year old not being there, not being there for him and my wife and my mom the rest the rest of her life. I'm concerned about not more about like the harm that it would cause if I left prematurely. And then kind of even bigger along the lines of some of the stuff that forward thinking we've been talking about. I think maybe way too much about just like, and I'll never know the answer. So even if I lived a you know, 120 like but like I want to know as much as I can, but like how is this going to work out like as humans We and a big one I think is Are we gonna, and I don't think, unfortunately, I'm gonna learn it.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

16. “Dying, and so there's both like the process of dying, like, yeah, it's usually not good. It'd be nice if it was after many, many years and just sort of, you know, I'd rather not fall, you know, die in my sleep. I'd rather kind of be conscious but sort of just fade out with old age maybe. But like, you know, just being in an accident and like, you know, horrible diseases. I've seen enough loved ones. It's like, yeah, this is not good. This is enough to be. Know, I'd like to say that I'm peaceful and sort of balanced enough that I'm not concerned at all. But no, like, yeah, I'm afraid of dying. But I'm also concerned about, I think, about family. I'm really, I'm afraid or at least concerned about”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

17. “Probably on a daily basis, I ponder it. I'd have to pick it apart more and say, Yeah, I am afraid of dying, like the process of dying. I'm not afraid of being dead. I mean, I'm not afraid of, I think it was Pendelette that said, and he may have gotten it from someone else, but like, I'm not afraid of the year 1862 before I existed. I'm not afraid of the year 2262 after I'm gone. Like, it's going to be fine. But yeah, you know, dying like I'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of, you know.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

18. “If you really believe in that, in that particular religion, and you're this mastermind and you're trying to figure things out, it's not like, oh, this is what my job description is and this is what the grant wants. It's like. No, I've got this limited time on the planet. I'm going to figure out as much stuff as possible. Nothing is off the table and you're just putting it all together. So this is kind of this trajectory is maybe related to the siloing in science. Like, again, related to my like, oh, I'm not a philosopher, not empirical science, but like going to these different disciplines, like, you know, the greats, you know, didn't. Boundaries didn't exist, they didn't observe them”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

19. “And, like, the greats didn't see that. I mean, Newton, and you go back in time, and it's like that obviously connects to then religion, especially if that is the predominant world where Newton, like how much. You know, like how much time did he spend trying to decode the Bible and whatnot? You know, and maybe that was a dead end. But it's like, if”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

20. “That's consistent with what I think the great scientists of history in most of the history, you know, the greats, you know, the Newtons and Einstein's, I mean, there was less of, and this change, I think, as time marched on, but less of a separation between those realms. It's like. The inclination now for it's like as a scientist, and this is like this is science, this is my work, and then this like my inclination to say, oh, Alex, don't take me too seriously because this is my armchair. I'm not speaking as a scientist. I'm bending over backwards to say, you know, to divide that self. And maybe there's been less of there's been that evolution. And that's.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

21. “Rick Strossman, you did, yeah, yeah, the DMT work. He labeled it as speculation, but You know, I think Yeah, I think we'd be wise to kind of find it's always that balance between Being empirically grounded and skeptical, but also not being, and I think in science often we are too closed. Which relates to like you're talking about Elon in academia, it's like often like I think you're punished for thinking or even talking about 20 years from now because it's just so far removed from your next grant or for your next paper that you're it's easy pickings and you know that you're not allowed to speculate so”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

22. “Yeah, it's like, oh, now you feel what it's like. And like, in one sense, like, how could we not go there? And then you get into the realm, especially when you throw time into it. Are the aliens us? The future, or even like a transcendental temporal, like the us beyond time. I don't know. Like you get into this, there's a lot of possibilities. Yeah. But I think, you know, there's one psychedelic researcher who did high-dose DMT research in the 90s who speculated that And there was a lot of alien encounter experiences, like maybe these are entities from some other dimension. He labeled it as speculation, but.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

23. “Maybe that'll be us in a few years. How could it not? Like, instead of explaining something laboriously to you, like having people describe the ineffable psychedelic experience, like if we could. Record that and then get the neural link of 50 years from now. Like, I'll just plug this into your.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

24. “Can you get some information that's verifiable? Like information about some other planet or some aspect. And gosh, it would be an interesting range, but what range of discovery that we can anticipate we're going to know within whatever, a few years, next five, ten, twenty years, and seeing if you can get that predict that information now and then over time it might be verified, you know, the type of thing like, you know, part of Einstein's work was ultimately verified not until decades and decades later, at least certain aspects through the empirical observations.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

25. “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. And I've to some degree laid my cards out by identifying as a radical empiricist. So, the answer is it possible, and I think, you know, ultimately, if you're a good scientist, you got to say, now that's at the extremes, it's like yes. Yeah. You know, and it might get more interesting when you had to, you're asked to guess about the probability of that. Is that a one in a one in a million, one in a trillion, one in a one in more than the number of atoms in the universe probability?”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

26. “I do think it's likely that this idea that whether or not there's an inner experience, which is phenomenal, it's the hard problem, that acting like an agent, like having an algorithm that basically operates as if there is an agent, that's clearly a thing that I think has worked and that there is a whole lot to figure out there. And I think psychedelics will be extremely helpful in figuring more out about that because they do seem to a lot of times eliminate that or whatever, radically shift that sense of self.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

27. “In the realm of like, we don't even understand complexity yet. Like you're saying, like, so maybe there is, but I do think if it is a result of the complexity, well, you know, just having helium versus hydrogen is a form of complexity. Having the existence of stars versus clouds of gases, a complexity, the entire universe has been this increasing complexity. And so that kind of brings me back to then the other of like, okay, if there's If it's about complexity, then it exists at a certain level in these simple systems like a star.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

28. “And the thing that gives me pause is that I'm concerned about A threshold there? Like, how is it likely that now there may be, and there may be some qualitative shift that”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

29. “Some point of complexity, all of a sudden, you know, you start from this objective universe, and all we know about is interactions between things and things happen. And at this certain level of complexity, magically there's an inside. That to me doesn't pass Occam's razor as easily as maybe there is a fundamental property of the universe of, you know, there's both subjective and objective, there is both interactions amongst things and there is Thing itself.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

30. “Nobody did it And the reason I lean towards, and again, armchair speculation, if I had to bet like a thousand dollars on which one of these ultimately be proved, I would lean towards, I'd put my bets on something like panpsychism rather than the... The emergence of phenomenal consciousness through complexity or computational complexity because although certainly if there is some underlying fundamental consciousness, it's clearly being processed in this way through computation in terms of resulting in our experience and the experience presumably of other animals. But the reason I would panpsychism is to me Occam's razor It just in terms of truly the hard problem, like this at some point you have an inside looking out and even looking refers to vision and it doesn't that's just an example but just there's an inside experiencing something”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

31. “That so far, it's so derivative of this kind of basic thing that we wouldn't even recognize the basic thing. But the basic thing might just be this is not about. Interaction between particles, this is what it is. Like to exist as a particle, and maybe it's not even particles, maybe it's like spacetime itself. I mean, again, totally in the speculation.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

32. “Something that struck me as consistent with just, you know, inclinations of mine, just total speculation is this idea of Everything we know in science and with most of the stuff we think of physics really describes It's all interactions. It's not the thing itself. Like there's something to And this sounds very new, AG, which is why it's very difficult, and I have high bullshit like meter and everything, but like an isness. I mean, think about Huxley, all this Huxley with his masculine experience and doors of procession. Like there's an isness there in Alan Watson. A nature of being, again, very new agey sounding, but maybe there is something to. And when we say consciousness, we think of like this human experience, but maybe that's just so processed and so.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

33. “The nature of reality, you know, sort of like in the history of like there's certain just like fundamental forces or fundamental like. That's been useful for us, and sometimes we find out that that's pointing towards something else, or sometimes it's still. Seems like it's a fundamental, and sometimes it's a placeholder for someone to figure out, but there's something like this is just a given, you know, this is just, you know, and sometimes I'm like, gravity seems like a very good placeholder, then there's something better that comes to replace it. So, you know, I kind of think about consciousness, and I didn't have this inclination before I knew there was a term for it, Rosalian monism, the idea that, which is a form of, again, I'm not an armchair philosopher, not a very good one”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

34. “And the real thing of conscious, like, I'm just very sympathetic to that. So that's that part of on the arm share side where I want to be clear I can't say this is a scientist, but just in terms of speculating, I find myself attracted to these more of the sort of the panpsychism ideas. And that kind of makes sense to me. I don't know if that's what you meant there, but it seemed like related to the sense that ultimately if If you were completely modeling, like it's like if you completely model it, unless you dismiss the idea that there is a phenomenal consciousness, which I think is hard given that we all, I seem like I have one that's really all I know, but that's so compelling. I can't just dismiss that. Like if you take that as a given, then the only way for the model and the real thing to merge is if there is something baked into”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

35. “Like you explain these phenomena that just sound like completely they're supernatural now, where there may be, for some of it, like some of it might turn out to be a complete bunk and some of it might turn out to be, it's just another layer of nature, whether we're talking about multiple dimensions that are invoked or something we don't even have the language toward. And what you're saying about the moving together of the model.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

36. “So, I am very hopeful that, and so I mean, I'm a radical empiricist, which I'm very strong with that. Like that's what, you know, so, you know, science isn't about ultimately being a materialist. It's like, it's about being an empiricist in my view. And so, for example, I'm very fascinated by the so-called psi phenomenon, like stuff that people just kind of reject out of hand. I kind of orient towards that stuff with an idea of, you know, hey, look, you know, what we consider like anything exists as natural. And so, but the boundary of what we observe in nature, like what we recognize in nature moves, like what we do today and what we know today would only be described as magic 500 years ago or even 100 years ago some of it. So there will surely be things that”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

37. “That stated incorrectly, like acting as if there is an agent at play and behaviorally acting like so you can program a computer or a robot to basically demonstrate, have an algorithm like that and demonstrate that type of behavior. And I think that's completely silent on whether there's an actual experience inside there.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

38. “These unity experiences, I think we can do a lot with that in terms of figuring out the nature of the sense of self. Now, I don't think that's the same as the hard problem or the existence of phenomenal consciousness, because you can build an AI system and you correct me if I'm wrong, that like we'll pass a Turing test in terms of demonstrating the qualities of a sense of self. It will talk as if there's a self and there's probably a certain like algorithm or Whatever, like computational, like, you know, scaling up of computations that results, and somehow, and I think this is the argument with humans, with some have speculated this, why do we have this illusion of the self that's evolved? And we might find this with AI that like it works, you know, having a sense of self or.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

39. “Relating to the self, and I know some neuroscientists, it drives them crazy if you say that it's the ego. But self referential processing, if you go that far, like that was already known before psychedelics. Psychedelics didn't really contribute to that, the idea that this type of brain network activity was related to a sense of self. But it is absolutely striking that psychedelics that people report with pretty high reliability, these unity experiences that where people subjectively, like they report losing or, again, like the boundaries of the however you want to say it.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

40. “You know, like we found it decoupling of the default mode network on Salvinor and A, which is a smokable psychedelic, which is a non-classic psychedelic, but another one where like DMT where people are often talking to entities and that type of thing. That was a really fun study to run. But nonetheless, most people say it's not a classic psychedelic and doesn't have some of those phenomenal features that people report from classic psychedelics. not sort of the clear sort of ego loss type, not at least not in the way that people report it with classic psychedelics. So you get it with all these different drugs. And so, and then you also see just broad. Broad changes in network activity with other networks. And so Think that story took off a little too soon. Although, so I think the story that the DMN, the default mode network”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

41. “Right. And it couldn't. I'm speculating. It could be tied to more if you had to download into language, everyday language, like not feeling like yourself. So whether that be like really drunk or really hopped up on amphetamine or...”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

42. “Was found that when psilocybin is on board in the person system, that there's a less communication amongst these areas. So with resting state FMRI imaging that there's less synchronization or presumably communication between these areas. And so I think it has been overstated in terms of, ah, we see this is like this is the dissolving of the ego. The story made a whole lot of sense. There's several I think that story is really being challenged. Like one, we see increasing number of drugs that decouple that network, including ones that aren't psychedelic. So this may just be a property, frankly, of being like, you know, screwed up, you know, like, you know, being out of your head, being like, like, you know.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

43. “So, like one story that unfolded is that psychedelics acutely have effects on the default mode network, a certain pattern of activation amongst a subset of brain areas that is associated with self-referential processing seems to be more active, more communication between these areas like the posterior cingulate cortex and the medial prefrontal cortex, for example, being parts of this that are, and others that are tied with sort of thinking about yourself remembering yourself in the past, projecting yourself into the future. And so it's an interesting story emerged when”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

44. “Skeptically, I have to say psychedelics have not really taught us anything about the nature of consciousness. I'm hopeful that they will. They have been used around certain, I don't even know if features is the right term, but things that are called consciousness. So consciousness can refer to not only just phenomenal consciousness, which is like, you know, the source of the hard problem and what it is to be like Nagel's description. The sense of self, which can be sort of like the experiential self-moment to moment where it can be like the narrative self, the stringing together of story. So those are things that I think can be and a little bit's been done with psychedelics regarding that, but I think there's far more potential.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

45. “There's no data and getting to the hard problem, like no conceivable way, even though I'm very open, like I'm hoping that that problem can be cracked. And I do, as an armchair philosopher, I do think that is a problem. I don't think it can be dismissed as some people argue it's not even really a problem. It strikes me that explaining just the existence of phenomenal consciousness is a problem. So anyway, I very much keep that divide in when I talk about these things. What we can really say about what we've learned through science, including by psychedelics versus what I can speculate on in terms of the nature of reality and consciousness. But in terms of... By and large,”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

46. “Yeah, there's a bunch there. I think my preface is that I certainly have opinions that are outside that I can say, here are my best speculations as just a person and an armchair philosopher. And it's that philosophy is certainly not my training and my expertise. So I have thoughts there, but that I recognize are completely in the realm of speculation that are like things that I would love to wrap empirical science around, but that are”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

47. “Damn it, he's doing something. Like he's, you know Appreciating that variability. You know, that like it's valuable even if he's not on. I mean, this is all over the place in science. It's like a good theory, one standard definition is that it generates testable hypotheses. And like the ultimate model is never going to be the same as reality. Some models are going to work better than others. Newtonian physics got us a long ways, even if there was a better model like waiting. And some models weren't as good as, you know, were never that successful, but just even like putting them out there and testing. We wouldn't know something is a bad model until someone puts it out anyway.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

48. “That's the standard and be driven by that, so don't let it affect your ethics. But if he's on the wrong path, how wonderful someone's exploring that wrong path? He's going to figure out it's a wrong path and like other people.”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

49. “There's value in saying, like, yeah, there's a chance we could get this done in a year. And you know what? And if you set a goal for a year and you're not successful, hey, you might get it done in three years. Whereas if you had aimed at 20 years, well, you either would have never done it at all or you would have aimed at 20 years and then wouldn't have taken you to 10. So the other thing I think about this like in terms of his work and I guess we've seen it with psychedelics is like there's a lack of appreciation for like sort of the variability you need in natural selection sort of extrapolating from biological from evolution like hey maybe he's wrong about focusing only on the cameras and not these other things be empirically driven. It's like, yeah, you need to like when he's safe enough to get this thing on the road those are real questions and be empirically driven and if he can meet the whatever standard is relevant”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

50. “What motivates anybody? And even if you're fudging it or like wishful thinking a little bit or let's just say erring on one side of the probability distribution”

    2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source