YouSaid · the spoken record

Matthew Johnson

lines on the record: 250
first: 2020-12-14
most recent: 2020-12-14
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“There's the delay discounting aspect I talked about before. It's like saying, oh, this is going to be a thing 20, 50 years from now. It's like.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It seems pretty clear we're gonna be there Like, and the only question is, what's the timeframe? Is that going to be 20 or is it 50 or 100? Like, how could we not?”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm very sympathetic to maybe it's because of my very limited but relatively speaking the amount of exposure the psychedelic work has had to my limited experience of being out there and then you think about someone like Mike Musk who's like like really really out there and you just get All these arrows that like, and it's hard to be like when you're plowing new ground, like you're gonna get criticized like every little word that you like this balance between speaking to people to make it meaningful something scientists aren't very good at. People understand what you're saying and then being belittled by oversimplifying something in terms of the public message. So I'm extremely sympathetic and I'm a big fan of like what that, you know, what Elon Musk does like.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know, with some of the stuff, and I can't talk about particulars, I'm not recalling, but, you know, in terms of stuff getting out there and then kind of a mocking of, you know, oh gosh, they're saying this is unique. We know this or sort of like this belittling of like, oh, you know, this sounds like it's just a, I don't know, a commercialization or like an oversimple. I forget what the example was, but something like Something that came off to some of my neuroscientific colleagues as an oversimplification, or at least the way they said it.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Guess broadly speaking, I'm all for it. I mean, for the same reason I am with Psycheducks, but it comes with all the caveats. You know, you're going into a brave new world where it's like all of a sudden there's going to be a dark side. There's going to be, you know, the serious ethical considerations, but that should not stop us from moving there. I mean, particularly the stuff from an unmo expert, but on the short list in the short term, it's like, yeah, can we help these serious neurological disorders? Like, hell yeah. And I'm also sensitive to something being someone that has lots of neuroscience colleagues.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And where that goes is just, it's unthinkable. Like we're probably going to, you know, again, I might sound like a fool and this may not happen, but I think it's possible. To go completely offline, like where most of people's experiences maybe. Going into these internal worlds. And I mean, maybe you through a combination of these techniques, you create experiences where someone could live a thousand years Terms of maybe they're living a regular lifespan, but over the next two seconds, you're living a thousand years worth of experience.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Where it's going to go is going to be endless, and it becomes easy to combine within virtual reality where the virtuality is going to move from being something out here to being more in there. And then we're getting, like we talked about before, we're already in a virtual reality in terms of human perception and cognition models of the universe being all representations and sort of color not existing. our representations of EM wavelengths, et cetera, you know, sound being vibrations and all of this. And so as the external VR and the internal VR come closer to each other, like this is what I think about in terms of the future of drugs. Like all this stuff sort of combines and”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then, like, where's that going to go with like, I mean, I'm always aware of the fact that, like, we always as humans and as scientists think that we figured out 99% we're working on that first 1% and we got to keep reminding ourselves it's hard to do like we figured out like not even one percent like we know nothing And so, like, I can't speculate. I might sound like a fool, but what are drugs? Even the concept of drugs, 50 years, 100 years, a thousand years if we're surviving. Molecules that go to a specific area of the brain in combination with technology, in combination with the magnetic stimulation, in combination with the targeted pharmacology.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You're still floored. Like, how is that possible? How did we slightly alter serotonergic neurotransmission and say in this person is now saying that they're making fundamental differences in the priorities of their life after 60 years”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's the thing about psychedelics that just floors me, and it never fails. I mean, sometimes you get bogged down by the paperwork and running studies and all the, I don't know, all of the BS that can come with being in academia and everything. And then you. And sometimes you get some DUD sessions where it's not the full, all the magic isn't happening and it's more or less or it's either a DUD or somewhere and I don't mean to dismiss them, but it's not like these magnificent sort of reports. But sometimes you get the full Monty report from one of these people and you're like, oh yeah, that's why we're doing this. Whether it's like therapeutically or just to understand the mind.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You could come up with an experience that maybe doesn't have a biological correlate, but. Then you were talking about there's also the limits of the science. Is it a false negative? But I think our best guess and a very decent assumption is that every psychological event has a biological correlate. So with that said, you know, the idea that you can throw, alter that biology in a pretty trivial manner. I mean, you could take a relatively small number of these molecules, throw them into the nervous system. And then have a 60 year old person who has You name it. I mean, that hiked. The top of Everest and that speaks five languages and that has been married and has kids and grandkids and has, you name it, you know, like been at the top and say this fundamentally changed who I am as a person and what I think life is about.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Territory, you don't even necessarily have to go there. Like you at least go to the level of like, okay, we know there seems to be this one-on-one correspondence. And that seems pretty solid. Like you can't prove a negative and you can't prove, you know, it's in that category of like, yeah.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, that definition implies a causation. It comes from. And so we know at least there's solid correlation there. And so then we delve deep into the philosophy of idealism or materialism and things like this, which I'm not an expert in, but I know we're getting into that.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Activity and kind of another layer up that we could talk about is network activity, communication amongst brain areas. Like this is always going on, even if I just prompt you to think about a loved one, you know, like there's something happening biologically. Okay, so that's always another side of the coin. Another way to put that is all of our subjective experience outside of drugs, it's all a controlled hallucination in a sense. Like this is completely constructed. Our experience of reality is completely. Simulation. So I think we're on solid ground to say that that's our best guess and that's a pretty reasonable thing to say scientifically.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Subjective experience, and even that word there are certain ways that if we're talking about access consciousness or Narrative self awareness, which is an aspect of like you can wrap a definition around that and we can talk meaningfully about it, but so often around psychedelics, it's used in this much more in terms of ultimately explaining phenomenal consciousness itself, the so-called hard problem relating to that question and psychedelics really haven't spoken to that and that's why it's hard because like it's hard to imagine anything. But I think what I was getting is that Psychedelics have done this by the reason I was getting into the biology versus mind psychology divide is that just to kind of set up the fact that I think all of our experience is related to these biological events. So whether they be naturally occurring neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine etc and a whole other sort of biological”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My assumption, and I think it's a good assumption, is that all experiences, there's a biological side to all phenomenal experience. So there is not, you know, the divide between biology and experience or psychology is not one or the other. These are just two sides of the same. Coin, I mean,”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm thinking of that in two categories, one kind of more More scientific, I mean, they're both scientific, but one more about, you know, more about the brain and behavior and the mind, so to speak. And as a behaviorist, I always see sort of the mind as a metaphor for behavior. But anyway, that gets philosophical. It's really increasing the, so the one category is increasing the appreciation for the magnitude of. I mean, so these are all metaphors of human experience that might be a good way to, because you use certain words like consciousness and whatnot. We're using constructs that aren't well defined unless we kind of dig into, but human experience like that, the experiences on these compounds can be so far out there or so deep. And they're doing that by tinkering with the same machinery that's going on up there. I mean, I'm at.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is part of that equation. And even if the day is ending, and I know some of those emails are slipping by and I'll never get back to them. And I'm struggling with it. I'm already, and I get what you're saying is like I haven't seen anything yet with the type of exposure that your podcast. This will bring in.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Mentored postdocs for, I don't know, like a dozen years or so, and more and more of their time is being spent on psychedelics. So someone's free to contact me. That's more of a, that's sort of so close to home. That's a personal, you know, that like emailing me about that. But I come to appreciate more the advice that folks like Tim Ferris have of like, I think it's him. Five cents emails, you know, like, you know, a subject that gets to the point that tells you what it's about so that like you break through the signal to the noise. But I really appreciate what you're saying because part of the equation for me is like I have a three-year-old and like my time on the ground, on the floor playing blocks or cars with him.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, right, right. As either a volunteer or if we're looking for somebody, we're going to be, you know, posting, including on the Hopkins University website, we're going to be posting if we're looking for a position. I am right now actually looking through, and it's mainly been through email and contacts, but should I say it because I think I'd rather cast my nets, but I'm looking for a postdoc right now. Oh, great. So I've”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Get back in touch with you. But I do already, you know, and I expect it's going to increase, but I'm already at the level where my simple limited mind and limited capacity is already, I sometimes fail to get back to emails. I mean, I'm trying to respond to my colleagues, my mentees. All these things, my responsibilities, and as many of the people just inquiring about, I want to go to graduate school. I'm interested in this. I had this, I have a daughter that took a psychedelic and she's having trouble. And it's like, I try to respond to those, but sometimes I just simply can't get to all of those already.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So we have all of our psilocybin studies. So everything we have is up on one website, and then we link to the different study websites. But HopkinsPsyedelic.org. So, everything we do, or if you don't remember that, just go to your favorite search engine and look up Johns Hopkins, psychedelic, and you're going to find one of the first hits is going to be this website. And there's going to be links to the smoking study and all of our other studies. If there's no link to it there, we don't have a study on it now. And if you're interested in psychedelic research more broadly, you can look up, you know, like at another university that might be closer to you and there's a handful of them now across the country. And there's some in Europe that have studies going on, but you can, at least in the US, you can look at clinical trials.gov and look up the term psilocybin. And in fact, optionally, people even in Europe can register their trial on there. So that's a good way to find studies. But for our research, rather than emailing me a more efficient way is to go straight. And you can do that first phase of screening. There's some questions online and then someone will.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Thanks for bringing this up. This is, I'm glad to get the opportunity to address this. If someone's interested in participating in a study. Best thing to do is go to the website”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that compares to 27% for the nicotine patch, which, by the way, is extremely good for the nicotine patch compared to previous research. So the results could change because it's ongoing, but we're mostly done and it's still looking extremely positive. So if anyone's interested, they have to be sort of be in commuting distance to the Baltimore area.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like standard use of the nicotine patch. So it's randomized. 40 people get randomized to psilocybin one session. 40 people get nicotine patch. And they all get the same cognitive behavioral therapies for the standard talk therapy. And we've scaled it down somewhat. So there's less a weekly meetings, but it's been in the same ballpark. And right now, we're still, the study's still ongoing and in fact we just recently started recruiting again. We paused for COVID. Now we're starting back up with some protections like masks and whatnot. But right now for the 44 people who have gotten through the one-year follow-up. And so that includes 22 from each of the two groups. The success rates are extremely high for the psilocybin group. It's 59% have been biologically confirmed as smoke-free at one year after their quit date.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, this was three doses of psilocybin over a total course, including preparation, everything, a 15-week period where there's mainly like... For the most part, one meeting a week, and then the three sessions are within that. And so it's, and we scale that back in the more, the study we're doing right now, which I can tell you about, which is a randomized controlled trial. But the original pilot study was these 15 people. So given the positive signal from the first study telling us that it was a worthy pursuit, we hustled up some money to actually be able to afford a larger trial. So it's randomizing 80 people to get either one psilocybin session when we've narrowed, we've scaled that down from three to one, mainly because we're doing fMRI neuroimaging before and after, and it made it more experimentally complex to have multiple sessions. But one psilocybin session versus the nicotine patch using the FDA.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And the answer to that was absolute frequently because the success rates were so high, 80% biologically confirmed successful at six months that held up to 60% biologically confirmed abstinent at an average of two and a half years, a very long fall. Yeah. And so... I mean, the best that's been reported in the literature for smoking cessation is in the upper 50%, and that's with not one, but two medications for a couple of months, followed by regular cognitive behavioral therapy where you're coming in once a week or once every few weeks for an entire year. And so”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, when that pilot study was very, it was a very small and it wasn't a randomized study, so it was limited. The only question we could really answer was, is this worthy enough of follow-up?”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, but one of the, to a degree, but one of the hallmarks going back to William James of describing a mystical experience is the ineffability. And so even though it's ineffable, people try as far as they can to describe it. But when you get the real deal, they'll say, and even say, though they say a lot of helpful things to help you describe the landscape, they'll say no matter what I say, I'm still not even coming anywhere close to what this was. Like the language is completely failing. And I like to joke that even though it's ineffable, we're researchers, so we try to eff it up by asking them to describe the experience.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This is like at some sense the deepest level of the very sense of self seems to be Dissolved, minimize, or expand it such that the boundaries of the self go into. And here, I think some of this is just semantics, but whether the self is expanding such that there's no boundary between the self and the rest of the universe, or whether there's no sense of self. Again, might be just semantics, but this radical shift or sense of loss of sense of self or self-boundaries. And that's like the most typically when people have that experience, they'll often report that as being the most remarkable. And this is what you don't typically get with MDMA, these deepest levels of the nature of reality itself, the subjectivity and objectivity, just like the seer and the scene become one. And it's a process. And yeah.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Really deep experiences where you have experiences that seem symbolic of very much in like, you know, what we know about dreaming and what most people think about dreaming, like there's this randomness of things, but sometimes it's pretty clear in retrospect, oh, like this came up because this thing has been on my mind recently. So it seems to be there seems to be this symbolic level. And then they have this the last level that they describe as the mystical integral level, which And this is where there's lots of terms for it, but transcendental experiences, experiences of unity, mystical type effects we often measure. Europeans use a scale that we'll refer to oceanic boundlessness. This is all pretty much the same thing.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like the magnitude of that love and like what that means in their lives. So those are some of the most moving experiences to be present for is where people like it hits home, like what really matters in their life. And then you have this sort of what Masters in Houston called the archetypal realm, which again is sort of young in with the focus on archetypes, which is interesting, but I think of that more generally as like symbolic level. So just.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which can be very interesting. And then at another level, Masters in Houston called that the psychodynamic level. And I think you can think about it more broadly than that Jungian, but just the personal psychological levels how I think of it. This is about your life. There's a whole life review oftentimes people have thoughts about their childhood, about their relationships, their spouse or partner, their children, their parents, their family of origin, their current family. You know, that stuff comes up a lot, including every, like the just people just like pouring with tears about like. How much like it hits them so hard how much they love people. Like in a way, you know, for people that they'd love their family, but like, it just hits them so hard that, like. How important this is.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And sometimes kind of at the same time concurrently, so let's see, there's different ways to, there are some Jungian psychologists back in the 60s, masters in Houston that wrote a really good book, The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience, kind of, which is a play on varieties of religious experience by William James. That they described this perceptual level. So most people have that, you know, when whether they're looking at the room without the eyeshades on or inside their mind's eye with the eyeshades on colors, you know, sounds like this is a much richer sensorium.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like hellish experiences and Just absolutely beautiful and loving experiences. Everything in between and both of those, like those could be two minutes apart for me.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and some more so than others because everyone has been exposed at some level or another, but some it is pretty superficial, as you're saying. One of the hallmarks of psychedelics is just their variability. So I'm more it's like not the mean but the standard deviation is so wide that it's like it could be”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I thought Right, it really is that that really is a heart of this radical courage. People are often struck by that coming out like, this is heavy lifting. This is hard work. People come out of this exhausted and it can be extremely, some people say it's the most difficult thing they've done in their life, like choosing to let go on a moment, a microsecond by microsecond basis. Everything in their inclination is to say stop. Sometimes stop this. I don't like this. I didn't know it was going to be like this. This is too much. And Terrence McKinna put it this way. It's like comparing to meditation and other techniques, it's like spending years trying to press the accelerator to make something happen. Haidos psychedelics is like you're speeding down the mountain in a fully loaded semi truck and you're charged with not slamming the brake. It's like, you know, let it happen, you know, so it's very difficult and to engage, always, you know, go further into it and take that radical, you know.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like you are, this is okay by every level of society. That counts, you know, that has the authority. So it's So go deep, trust the setting, trust yourself, let go, and be open. So in the experience, and this is all subjective and by analogy, but like if there's a door, open it, go into it. If there's a stairwell, go down it or stairway, go up it. If there's a monster in the mind's eye, don't run, approach it, look in the eye and say, you know, let's talk it. Yeah, what's up? What are you doing here? Let's talk turkey, you know.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Most people that cops would come in and bust them right when, like, even at that theoretical, like that one in a billion chance, like that might be a real thing psychologically. This context, we even got that covered. This is it. We've got DEA approval.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In a social setting, and like, and also these other things, like even that you get in those social settings of like, yeah, you don't have to worry about your wallet Being taken advantage or for a woman sexually assaulted by some creep at a concert or something because they're, you know, they're laying down.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You don't have to compose yourself. Like you don't have to be concerned about our safety. Like we're playing these roles today. And like, yeah, your job is to go as deep as possible or as far out, whatever your analogy is, like as possible. And we're keeping you safe. And so. Yeah, and the emotional side is a hard one, you know, because you really want people to, like, if they go into realms of subjectively of despair and sorrow, like, yeah, like cry, you know, like it's okay, you know, and especially if someone's, you know, more macho and you want this to be the place where they can let go. And again, something that they wouldn't or shouldn't do if someone were to theoretically use it in a”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. And it's all about like you're the astronaut, and there's only one astronaut We're ground control, and I use this often I have a photo of the space shuttle on a plaque in my office, and I kind of often use that as an example. It's like, we're here for you. Like we're a team, but we have different roles. It's just like.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Space for that type of experience and to like so trust, let's see, let go. So that relates to the emotional, like you feel like crying, cry. You feel like laughing your ass off, laugh your ass off. You know, it's like all the things actually that sometimes it's more challenging with a someone has a large recreational use, sometimes it's harder for them because People in that context understandably so it's more about holding your shit. Someone's had a bunch of mushrooms at a party. maybe they don't want to go into the back room and start crying about this these thoughts about the relationship with their mother And they don't want to be the drama queen or king that bring their friends down because their friends have an experience too. And so they want to like compose, you know.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, and hopefully they've really gotten that by that point deep into the study that they realize we take that seriously and everything else. And so it's really kind of like a very special role you're playing as a researcher or a guide. And hopefully they have your trust. And so, you know, and trusted they could be as emotional, everything from laughter to tears, like that's going to be welcomed. We're not judging them. It's like it's a therapeutic relationship where. Know this is a safe container, it's a safe space to that term, but it truly is, it's a safe.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so trust is. Trust the context, you know, trust the guides, trust the overall institutional context. I see it as layers of safety, even though it's everything I told you about, the relative. Bodily safety of sils have nonetheless, we're still getting blood pressure throughout the session just in case we have a physician on hand who can respond just in case we're literally across the street from the emergency department just in case you know all of that you know”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Some butterflies that we can provide reassurance, a hold of their hand can be very powerful. I've had people tell me that that was like the thing that really just grounded them.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. And we found basically that about the same effect, even by a trend not significant, but a little bit better of an effect, both in terms of subjective experience and long-term, whether it helped people quit smoking. Just a little tiny, non-significant trend even favoring the novel playlist with the Tibetan singing bowls and the gongs and all didgeridoo and all of that. And so anyway, just saying, okay, we can deviate a little bit from this, like what goes back to the 1950s of this method of using classical music as part of this psychedelic therapy. But they're listening to the music and they're not playing DJ in real time. You know, it's like, you know, they just be the baby. You're not the decision maker for today. Go inward. Trust let go be open. And pretty much the only interaction that we're there for is to deal with any anxiety that comes up. So guide is kind of a misnomer in a sense. We're more of a safety net. And so like tell us if you feel.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Full on relapse, you know, just kind of treat it as a learning experience, that type of thing. Then you have the session day where they come in, five minutes of questionnaires, but pretty much they jump into the, we touch base with them and we give them the capsule. It's a serious setting, but a comfortable one. They're in a room that looks more like a living room than like a research lab. We measure their blood pressure than they experience, but kind of minimal, kind of medical vibe to it. And they lay down on a couch and it's a purposefully an introspective experience. So they're laying on a couch during most of the five to six hour experience and they're wearing eyeshades, which is a better connotation as a name than blindfold. So they're wearing eyeshades, but that's and they're wearing headphones through which music is played, mostly classical, although we've done some variation of that. I have a paper that was recently.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Before you quit, we assign a target quit date ahead of time. You're not just quitting on the fly. And that happens to be the target quit date in our study was the day where they got the first psilocybin dose. But doing things like keeping a smoking diary, like, okay, during the three weeks until you quit, every time you smoke a cigarette, just like jot down what you're doing, what you're feeling, what situation, that type of thing, and then having some discussion around that, and then going over the pluses and minuses in their life that smoking kind of comes with and being honest about the, this is what it does for me. This is why I like it. This is why I don't like it. Preparing for like what if you, what if you do slip, how to handle it? Like, don't dwell in guilt because that leads to more.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so the therapy involves a good amount of non psilocybin sessions, so preparatory sessions, like eight hours of getting to know the person, like the two people who are going to be their guides or the person in the room with them during the experience, having these discussions with them where you're both kind of rapport building, just kind of discussing their life, getting to know them. But then also telling them, preparing them about the psiliding experience, oh, it could be scary in this sense, blah, blah, blah. Here's how to handle it. Trust let go be open. And also during that preparation time, preparing them to quit smoking, using really standard bread and butter techniques that can all fall under the label typically of the cognitive behavioral therapy, just stuff like”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source