YouSaid · the spoken record

Matthew Johnson

lines on the record: 250
first: 2020-12-14
most recent: 2020-12-14
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I mean, in terms of mortality, it kills far more than any other drug known to humankind, four times more than alcohol, like a half million deaths in the US every year and about five to six million worldwide due to tobacco. That's four times more in the US than alcohol. And if you graph all of the drugs, legal and illegal, like put all of the illegal drugs in like one category on that figure and you put alcohol and tobacco on that figure all the illegal drugs combined barely they're a barely visible blip to this incredible like it's there's no even all of the opioid epidemic rolled up Along with cocaine and everything else, meth barely shows up compared to tobacco.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Depends, and you've already alluded to this nuance, it depends on how you define it. If we're talking about on the ground today, In modern society, I'd say nicotine tobacco”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because it was, one of them said it might be sending the wrong message. And it's like a felony, I mean, there's real harms. Like, that's the Scarlet Letter the rest of your life. You're stuck at the lower ends of the employment ladder. You're not going to get loans for education, all of this, maybe because of a stupid mistake you made once as a 19-year-old. Doing something that, like, you know, a presidential candidate could have done and admit it to and had no problem, you know?”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Minimizing as many harms as we can while not encouraging. I mean, we don't encourage people to drink all the, I mean, people die every year from caffeine overdose There's different ways to just by allowing something doesn't mean we're sending the message that, you know, by saying we're not going to give you a felony, which is actually often the penalty for psychedelics. I just actually testify for the judiciary committee, the Senate, the Assembly in New Jersey. And just to move psilocybin from a felony to misdemeanor, they use different language in New Jersey. It's weird, but like the equivalent of felony of misdemeanor. And that was like two people didn't vote for that on this committee.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think I'm ready to try that methadone thing. I think I'm really... Yeah, they get to trust the people and realize that they're there because they truly like they have a compassion, a love for this community, like as human beings and they don't want people to die. And you get real human connections. And that, and again, like those are the conditions where people are going to ultimately seek treatment. And not everyone always will, but you're going to get that. And then you're going to get people looking into treatment options. Sometimes maybe it's years into the treatment. So it's like they're just all of these indirect benefits that I think at that level, I don't know if you'd call that legalizing. Again, least. Well regulated.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Opioid overdoses like people's kids, people's uncles, people's like, these are real lives that are being shattered. So you just look at that. And then the other thing, and I know this from having done residential, even like non-treatment research where we just have a cocaine user or something stay on our inpatient ward for a month and you really get to know them and sometimes you see like oftentimes that's the first time this person has had a discussion with a medical professional, any type of professional in their entire life around their drug use. Even if they're not looking to quit. And it's like you could imagine that in these safe injection settings where it's like, it might be a year into treatment. And they're like, in a doc, I know you're not the cops. Like, you really care for me.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, the public health data are completely on the side of there's really no credible evidence to this if we allow that we're sending the wrong message and everyone's going to I mean Not showing up, like, and it's different by drug, like, yeah, you legalize, you set up cannabis shops, and some people are going to say it's so, I'm gonna go there. I don't think a whole lot of people are going to go to one of these places and say, I'm going to shoot up heroin for the first time. And even if like, you know, it's a country of 300 million people. Like even if someone does that, you have to compare this to everyday people are dying from.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because of the incredible potency and the more difficulty measuring it and some differences at the receptor, like you may be more likely, you are more likely on average to lethally overdose on it. The level that's been more explored in Switzerland is in some places is you actually provide the drug itself and you supervise the injection. So I don't see that.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Probably one of the greatest advertisements for not getting hooked on heroin is like visiting a methadone clinic, visiting a safe injection site. This is not like an advertisement for getting cooked on this drug, but knowing that we can save people. Now, you have a landscape here because a lot of times it's just like supervised injection, but you bring your own stuff. You know, you bring your own heroin, which could still be dirty and filled with fentanyl and fentanyl derivatives, which”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's a huge part of it, the education, but then I think with the opioids, like the big part of it is just like Naloxone, which is an antagonist, it goes into the receptor, it's called Narcan, that's the trade name, but it's what they revive people on an opioid overdose. That's almost completely effective. If there's a medical professional there and someone's ODing on an opioid, they're virtually guaranteed to live. Like, that's remarkable that if 100% at the opioid crisis, if all of those people right now that are dying were doing that in the presence of a medical professional, like even like a nurse with Narcan, there'd be basic almost no deaths. There's always some exceptions. But almost no deaths. Like that's staggering to me. So the idea that people are doing this, you know, that we could have that level of positive effect without encouraging the drug. And this is where like you get into this terrain of like sending the wrong message. And it's like, no, you can do that. You can say like we're not encouraging this. In fact,”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think that as a form of regulation, like, look, if you're using these hard drugs on a regular basis, you're putting yourself at risk for lethal overdose. You're putting yourself at risk for catching HIV and hepatitis. If you're going to do it, if you're doing it anyway, come to this place where at least you're not pulling the water out of the puddle on the side of the street.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Example, I think safe injection sites for hard drugs makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't want heroin and cocaine at the convenience stores. And I don't think maybe there's some extreme libertarians that want that. I think even the folks that Identifies libertarians probably most of them don't. Well, I don't know, like not all of them want that, you know”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, yeah, and you were already going where I was going with that kind of first, I described how those. And colleagues that do cannabis research where they get people high in the lab, like you're a federal funded researcher within IIH funds. You can't get that stuff from the dispensary because you're breaking a federal law, even though the feds don't have the resources to go after. They don't want the controversy at this point to go after the individual users or even the sellers in those legal states. So there's always this nuance, but it's about the right regulation. So I think we already know enough that”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Way I like to talk about it is that I would say that it's possible, and it would probably be a good thing if we regulate all drugs.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, anyway, just as some extreme examples at the end, and then, you know, even the so-called illegal, like Schedule I drug, psilocybin, we do plenty in terms of Schedule 2, which is ironically less restrictive than psilocybin, but methamphetamine and cocaine, I've done human research with. My research has been legal, so they're scheduled compounds, but they're not completely legal. Like you can do research with them with the appropriate licensees and approval. There really is no such thing in like alcohol, well, it's illegal if you're 12 years old or 18 years old or 20 years old. And for anyone, it's illegal to be drinking it while you're driving. So there's always a nuance. There's rules. Not dichotomy.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But it's against federal law to use this in a way other than intended type of thing. Basically saying, yeah, don't huff this, your paint thinner or whatnot, at least keeps people from selling it for that. Because they're going to go after that person. They're not going to be able to find the 12-year-old who's huffing.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so this is FDA regulated. And it's kind of weird because there's a limit to sodas that's not there for energy drinks and other things. But, you know, so even caffeine, it depends on what product we're talking about. You can't just put 800 milligrams in there. The pills are like 100 or 200 milligrams. And so it's FDA regulated as no recounted drug. Some of the most dangerous drugs in society. I would say arguably one of the most dangerous classes of drugs of the volatile anesthetics, huffing. people huffing gasoline and airplane glue, toluene, whatnot, severely damaging to the nervous system. Pretty much legal, but there's some regulation in the sense that there's a warning label, like it's legal to do it for not that it's busting people for this.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Really depends on what we mean by legalization. So, this is one of my beefs with this, you know, how these things are talked about. I mean, we have very few completely laissez-faire, you know, legal drugs. So even caffeine is one of the few examples. So for example, caffeine and tea and coffee is in that realm. Like there's no limits, no one's testing. There's no laws, regulation at any level of how much. Caffeine you're allowed to buy or how much in the price. But even like with this Starbucks nitro, there are rules with soda and with canned products you can only put so much”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Free market compete against some of the worst problems of addiction is actually having educational and employment opportunities. But when you get give someone a felony, for example, You're pretty much guaranteeing they're never going to go very high on the economic ladder. And so you're making drugs a better reward for that person's future.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“More direct consequences of those drugs themselves, but a whole lot is what you get from indirectly and sort of the both for the individual and for society. So like making a poor person who doesn't have enough money for their kids, making them even poorer. So now you've made children's future worse because they're growing up in deeper poverty because you've essentially levied a tax. Onto this person who's heavily addicted. But then at the societal level, you know, so everything we know about the drug war in terms of the heavy criminalization and filling up of prisons and reducing employment and educational opportunities, which in the big picture we know are the things that”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Something he brought up drug policy, I will say that for years now it's been this kind of unquestioned goal by, for example, the drug czars office in the US to make the price of illegal drugs as high as possible without this kind of nuanced approach that, yeah, if you make, you know, for some people, if you make the price so high, you're actually making things worse. I mean, I'm all about reducing the problems associated with drugs and drug addictions. And part of that is the”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Think so. I mean, basically that whether they're crunching the numbers or not, they're basically sensitive to that demand curve and they're doing the same thing that businesses do in a legal market. And you want to sell as much of a product to get as much money. You're looking more at the total income. So if you jack the price a little bit, you're going to get some reduction in consumption, but it may be that the total amount of money that you rake in is going to be more than it's going to overcompensate for that. So you're willing to take, okay, I'm going to lose 10% of my customers, but I'm getting more, you know, more than enough to compensate from that, from the extra money from the people who still are buying. So I think they're more, and especially when we get to the lower, I wouldn't be surprised if people are crunching those numbers.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, so you're making it worse. If they don't, if they are completely inelastic, you're actually making that person's life worse because we know that by interfering with the amount of money they have, you're interfering with the other pro-social, the potential competitors to smoking, you know, and we know that. Someone's in more impoverished environments and they have less sort of non drug alternatives, you know, the more likely they're going to stay addicted.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“People smoke less and especially kids smoke less when you keep cigarette prices high and you tax the hell out of them. But one of the downsides, you've got a balance and keep in mind is that you disproportionately have working class poorer people. And then you get into a point where someone's spending, you know, a quarter of their paycheck on. So they're going to smoke no matter what.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. I mean, I think you just described it. Yeah, you can jack up the price. And some people are going to drop off, but the people, you know, and it's not dichotomous because you could just consume less. But some people are going to consume less and the people that are most addicted are going to keep, you know, I mean, you see this, they're going to keep purchasing. So you see this with cigarettes. And so it's interesting when you interface this with policy, like in one respect, heavily taxing cigarettes is a good thing. We know it keeps adolescents particularly price sensitive. So you definitely.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it goes off at 5 a.m. And then so now those two consequences have come sooner. And it's like, what the hell? And they hit the snooze alarm. And sometimes it's not just once, but then five minutes later and five minutes later, you know, and so, and it's why it's easier to exercise self-control at the grocery store compared to in your fridge. Like if that snack is like 30 seconds away. your fridge you're going to more likely yield to temptation than if it is further away”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And this isn't just something, this is something that has Has huge clinical ramifications with addiction, but it's like all humans do it Anyone who's hit the snooze alarm in the morning. The night before they realized, oh, I got to get up extra early tomorrow. That's what's ultimately better for me. So I'm going to set the alarm for, you know, 5 a.m.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And that's when you're kind of in their office or wherever you're not, you know, it's not around you. And then later on that day, your buddy says that, hey, man, I just scored. I got it right here. Do you want it? And that reward is right in front of you. That's like bringing those two choices right in front of you. And it's like, hell yeah, I want to use. And then you can go through that cycle for like years of the person telling themselves, I want to quit. But then other times that same person is saying, I don't want to, you know, functionally they're saying I don't want to because they're saying, yeah, yeah, give me some”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, you see this preference reversal, and so that is That's a model of addiction in the sense that consistently with true addiction, I would argue, you see this competition between molar and molecular utility. It's like intrapersonal, like within the person competing agents. Someone sometimes has control of the bus that wants to do what's good for you in the short term and someone at other times is in control of driving the bus and they want to do what's good for you in the long term. So you tell the, you know, you're trying to quit and you see a doctor, you see your, you know, 12-step therapist and say, God, I know this stuff is killing me. Like, I'm really, I'm on the path. I'm like, I'm done.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It maps onto this phenomenon we see both in terms of how people deal with future rewards, but also how perception works. When two things are far away, whether it's physical distance or whether in terms of perception or whether it's in terms of time, when you're really far away, the value, the subjective value for that further, that delayed reward is larger. So for example, like Let's say we're talking about 3604 days from now, you can get $9 or $365 a year. Now you get $10 and you're like, dude, it's like, it's a year, like no difference. Why not get one more dollar? You bring that same exact set of choices close or nothing's changed other than the time to both rewards. And it's like, would you rather have $9 today or $10 tomorrow? And plenty of people would say, about the sound, go ahead and take it today.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then you do over those. So you see the super proportional, then it changes. And so the implication of that, I know I've gone like really into the weeds quantitatively, but what that means is that There's these preference reversals. When you have curves of that nature, The decay that's hyperbolic.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We discount hyperbolically rather than exponentially. And what exponentially means is that every unit of time is associated with the same proportional reduction. Every unit of delay is associated with the same causes, the same proportional reduction in value. And that's the way the compound interest rate works. Every day, you get this sort of out of whatever values in there at the beginning of that day, you get this, you know, we'll give you this amount of extra money to compensate you for that delay. But then the way that all animals tend to function is of this very different way where the reductions, the initial, that initial delay, so like one day's worth of delay, you see a much stronger discounting rate or reduction in value.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The other aspect about delayed discounting is that if you quantitatively map out that discounting curve over time, so you don't just do the $10 tomorrow, how much is it worth to you today? So you can say, what about nine? What about eight? What about $7? And you can titrate it to find that in difference point. And so we can say, aha, $6, $10 tomorrow is worth $6 today. So by the one day it's decreased by 40%. We can do that also at one week and one month and one year and 10 years. Map out that curve, get a shape of that curve. And one of the fascinating things about this is that whether you're talking about pigeons making these types of choices between a little bit of food now or a little bit of food a minute from now or rats or dozens of species of animals test it, including humans, the tendency is pretty consistently that we.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Cigarette smokers. And even when you look at something like monetary rewards, and so you can go into the rabbit hole with this delayed discounting model. So it's not only those huge differences that seem to have a face valid aspect to it, like the cigarette smoker is choosing this thing that's rewarding today, but I know it comes with increased risk of having these horrible consequences down the line. So it's this competition between what's good for me now and what's good for me later.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, right. And so it's not just the rewarding value, but it's the relative rewarding value. And the other major aspect, again, from behavioral economics, the thing that makes addiction is something called delayed discounting. So in economics, sometimes it's called time preference. It's what compound interest rates are based upon. It's the idea that delaying a good access to a good or a reward comes with a certain decrement to its value. So we'd all rather have things now than later. And we can study this at the individual level of, you know, would you rather have $9 today or $10 tomorrow? And when you do that, you get huge differences between addicted populations and non-addicted, not just heroin and cocaine, but like just cigarette smokers like normal everyday.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Order for something to be addictive, it has to be a reward. And it has to compete with other rewards in your life. And one of the two main aspects of addiction in my view, and this doesn't map onto how the DSM, the psychiatry Bible defines addiction, which I think is largely bunk, you know, but there's some value to have some common description. But it's how rewarding is it from this multi-dimensional lens? And specifically, how does that rewarding value compete with other rewards, other consequences in your life? So it's not a problem if the use of that substance is rewarding. You like to have a couple beers every once in a while. It's like not a problem. But then you have the alcoholic who is drinking so much that it tanks their career. It ruins their marriage. It's in competition with these pro-social aspects to their life.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I know Joe's been pushing that too You're going to hang on and keep buying the toilet paper to a greater degree than you will the diamonds. Yeah. So you'll see a crossing of demand curves. So, what's the better reinforcer? What's the better reward? Depends on your price. And so that's one, that's an example of one way And that of look at addiction, so specifically drug consumption, which isn't all of addiction, but it's like,”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which is just basically reward how much is this a good thing? And it kind of breaks that apart into a multi-dimensional space. So it's not just the ideas reward or reinforcement is not unidimensional. So for example, you can unpack that with demand curves. At a cheap price, you might prefer one good to another. So the classic example is luxury versus necessity, so diamonds versus toilet paper. So at those cheap prices, you can look at something called intensity of demand. If it was basically as cheap as possible or essentially zero, how much would you buy of this good? But then you keep jacking up the price and you'll see. So diamonds will look like the better reward at that low price sort of intensity of demand side of things. But as you keep jacking up the price, you got to have some toilet paper.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“who is working for cigarette puffs who's gone six hours without smoking and you're asking questions like how many times are they willing to pull this knob in the lab during this three hour session i do a lot of work like this in order to earn a cigarette pot how does it how does the content of nicotine in that affect it how is the availability of nicotine replacement products like nicotine gum or e-cigarettes affect those those decisions so you can it's a certain lens of it's sort of a way to take the kind of the classic behavioral psychology definition of reinforcement”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's one important dimension. So I think a particularly important one there is elasticity or inelasticity. Like Gasoline. So the price of gas at times can keep going up, and Americans are just going to pretty much buy the same amount of gas. Or maybe, you know, the price of gas doubles, but their consumption only decreases by 10%. So it's a sub-proportional reduction. So that's an inelastic. And that changes, like you push the price up high enough. I mean, if it was $100 a gallon, it would eventually turn the curve would turn and go downward more drastically. And it would be elastic. But you can apply that to someone who, a regular cigarette smoker.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“For example, the tobacco, cigarettes, and nicotine products through the lens of demand curves. And in other words, at different prices, if there's different work requirements for being able to smoke cigarettes, sort of modeling price.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So behavioral economics, my definition of it is the application of economic principles, mostly microeconomic principles, so understanding the behavior of individual agents surrounding commodities in the marketplace, applying microeconomic types of analyses to non-economic behavior. So basically at one point psychologists figure it out that there's this whole other discipline that's been studying behavior. It just happened to be all focused on monetary behavior spending and saving money, etc. But it comes with all of these principles that can be wildly and fruitfully applied to understanding behavior. So for example, I've studied things like demand curve analysis of drug consumption. So I look at”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, and the lenses that I view addiction through very much are behavioral economic. But I also think they converge on, I think it's beautiful. At the other end of the spectrum, sort of just a completely humanistic psychology perspective. And it converges on what people come out of 12-step meetings talking about.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Know like it's so obvious, or whatever, you know, interpersonal issue or like, my God, I don't, I'm not pulling enough weight around the house and helping my wife. Know these things that are just obvious to them the self criticism that can be a very positive thing if you act on it.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“you know or vodka um but he's really trying to delve into those the minor it's been called a minor psychedelic so with dmt you know as you brought up it's like the the entity's mocking him and it's like you're not i mean this reminds me of him you know him describing his like you know writing his or just just his entire method of of comedy it's like watch the tape of yourself Don't just ignore it. Like, that's where I screwed up. That's where I need to do better. This sort of radical self-examination, which I think our society is kind of getting away from because like, you know, all the children win trophies type of thing. You know, it's like, no, no. Don't go overboard, but recognize when you've messed up And so that's a big part of the psychedelic experience. Like, people come out sometimes saying, my God, I need to say sorry to my mom.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, Joe's treatings in cannabis as a psychedelic, which is something that I'd say a lot of people treat it more like Xanax or like beer.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Critical guy And I think with always this positive, Ben, I'm always struck being a behavioral pharmacologist, and no one else really says it about cannabis. I'll get back to the DMT thing about he likes the kind of the paranoid side of things. He's like, that you radically examining yourself. Yeah. It's like, that's not just a bad thing. That's you need to like look hard at yourself. And something's making you uncomfortable, like dig into that. And that's his, it sort of along the lines of Goggins with exercise. And it's like, yeah, like things. learning experiences aren't supposed to be easy. Like take advantage of these uncomfortable experience. It's why we call in our research. A safe context with psychedelics, they're not bad trips, they're challenging experiences.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I also see. Some elements that seem to relate to Joe's psychology, just from what I've seen from hours of watching him on his podcast, is that he's a self”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. I mean, this is all relative because there's people that were, you know, before the late 90s and early 2000s that were into it to say, you know, you're a Johnny come lately. But yeah, compared to where we're at now. But yet One of the things I always found fascinating by Joe's telling of his experience experiences, I think, is that they resemble very much Terrence McKinna's experiences with DMT. And Joe has talked very much about Terrence McKenna and his experiences. If I had to guess, I would guess that probably just having heard Terence McKenna talk about his experiences, that that influenced the coloring of Joe's experience.”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm definitely familiar with it. I remember telling you all flying that when I first, the first time I learned who Joe Rogan was probably 15 years ago, and I came upon a clip and I realized there's another person in the world who's into both DMT and Brazilian Jujitsu. And I think both those worlds have grown dramatically since, and it's probably not such a special club these days. So he definitely. Got onto my radar screen quickly”
2020-12-14 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #145 – Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source