YouSaid · the spoken record

Michael Hayden

lines on the record: 137
first: 2018-05-28
most recent: 2018-05-28
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“100%. Our lack of ability to understand our history. I'm reading the Hamilton book. I saw the musical, but it almost got screwed up at the whiskey rebellion. Like there's so many points. My guys in...”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Say Fix that, they won't write to me. Actually, I was on Bill Maher a couple weeks ago, and the core guest was John Meacham.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I understood it. Look, I understand. People have come to me and said, well, how do you stop leaks? Oh, easy. Make people feel like they're part of a team and they're listened to. I agree. That's what I'm going to say.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Absolutely. Although some people say no, like, you know, when they had that story that Ronan Farah had about whether this piece of banking information was somehow lost, the guy leaked because he thought I have to do it before.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah. And so my tribe and other tribes, you know, journalism needs to not be obsessed about the president. There's other news out there. Absolutely. Intelligence can't leak information that should not be made public, even if it is in the purpose of pushing back against a norm busting administration. And so we need to preserve our norms, hold our ground, and, you know,”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, back to something you said earlier, I never thought I'd see that. And yet, we see these things routinely. I think institutions survive, but they will be damaged. All right. And so here's a thought I haven't shared that it's really important. We have a president who does not respect norms. And so we've got institutions pushing back. And one of the great dangers for those institutions is that in pushing back, they break their own norms.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No. Right, exactly. No, I don't think we should make any phones. People are surprised when I say that. I'm like, no, it makes no sense. It makes no sense. And it also takes away from our country's innovation in this area when the government doesn't back behind it. All right, so I want to finish up, General Hayden, talking about where you think it's going from here. Like you have a hope you seem to have a hopeful point of view, although”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A real thing? I get it. I mean, you saw, you know, despite what the president said, back to fact-based, you had the nation's counterintelligence executive answer, would you buy? And he said, oh no.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Do they are resurgent? Or, from their point of view, this is restoration. And so it's a different kind of challenge. The Russians trying to take us down, the Chinese being a genuine competitor”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Messing with elections, it's all designed to get us down to their level, to distract and weaken us. The Chinese may do that a little bit. They've got Confucius centers around the country, which are kind of soft influence.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I would make a distinction between the two. One's resurgent, the others are pretender. So Russia's dealing from fundamentally a position of weakness. Absolutely. And so what we see the Russians doing is trying to tear us down. So this post-truthism”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“How much digital exhaust Absolutely. It's very interesting. So I'm going to finish up talking about China and Russia. Where are the challenges from your perspective? There's assault on intelligence. Our agencies are getting attacked by our own government, or one person particularly in the government. I think while this is going on, China, Russia, other countries are just moving straight ahead in this area.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To the old signals intelligence guys is, you know what? You may have trouble getting content in the future. There are other stuff you can do now. There's so much digital exhaust that you can actually create actionable information without content.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now we had that whole debate on encryption, and we should have a key. And frankly, That's coming back again. I'm a liberal arts major, not the technologist, but I don't know how you get a key without, I know how it used to work when we played offense. Any hole was a hole.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So did Ash Carter was really interested. And we did on security grounds. Although Jim Comey had a legitimate request for counterterrorism, law enforcement”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That applies to a whole bunch of things. So now when you get to San Bernardino. And the phone. All right, it surprised a lot of people that a bunch of former directors of NSA side with Apple.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“On what Cray could export to other countries, because obviously computing power is a cryptologic advantage for us. So I went down to the first meeting and said, no, no, we love export limits. And he said, well, could you rethink it? Yeah, okay, fine. So we go back to Fort Mead and we huddled up. And in great earnestness, we huddled up and I went down to the next meeting and said, we don't want you selling anything to these very small list of countries. Other than that, have a ball Go ahead and sell it. And our pivot was the sudden realization that whatever tactical transient advantage we would have because our computer is bigger than their computer wasn't at always important as American industry dominating the supercomputer world.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Systems So number one, the Snowden revelations and stuff goes out there and we go into a depot. My personal view, a lot of that's unwarranted, but it's real and you've got to deal with it. Let me tell you a story from my personal history. So I'm a member of a Clinton appointing. And Lake Clinton, I get called by John Podesta to come down to a White House meeting on something called MTOS. million of theoretical operational somethings per second it's computing power and we had export limits”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, what has to happen between the intelligence agencies and tech? Because they, of course, got into it over spying within their own systems and tapping into it. There was an encryption fight that Apple was quite strong. Apple and Microsoft particularly.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because they now realize that American opinion, American law, legislative processes are now very important to them. They're not living in this extraterritorial existence in which the normal functions of government don't apply. They do. And, you know, I'm assuming civic responsibility. I mean, I've talked to folks. How do you these companies? Yeah, Eric Schmidt, for example, I once said, look, Eric, former director of NSA, look, Eric, I understand your challenge. You're an international company. And he stopped me. He said, Mike.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To leave us alone. Right, right. Exactly. We're living here in this domain. And I think there has been, and I've seen this movement over the last decade. They realize, no, I guess we're not. And you do see them a lot of them now opening offices up in this city.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so number one, I mean, their engines, the American economy, and God bless them, okay? But you know, there was always a sense out there of what I would call extraterritoriality.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But when you're with the people from Silicon Valley, you don't want to do that. Now, you spent some time with them, and their influence, I think, is massive in a way that I don't even think government people get.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Again, back to is it a person or not? And again, talking to Clint, I mean, his art and science showed me, oh no, this is the bot lighting up here. And again, to a degree of certitude that should be sufficient, they should be suppressed.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And amplified by social med It's the amplification that I think is interesting in terms of the power. And one of the things that struck me when I was talking to Mark, he was saying, I don't want to be in California and make decisions about this platform like that. Like he doesn't want to stop it and stuff like that. And I made the argument is you made the platform. You have to make values. Every company has to have a value decision.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, so there you've got what I can only assume to be our good, sensible Texans. Kind of going crazy. On something that has no basis in reality fed by Russian bots and amplified bots.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That was an exercise, special operations in Texas and several other southern states, that Russian bots and the alt-right media. And here's a really important aspect. There is a powerful echo chamber between what the Russians say and alt-right media in the United States created such concern in the state of Texas that the governor of Texas had a call at the state guard, which is kind of a volunteer organization, to watch the feds because the stories that were circulating in Texas was this was an attempt by the Obama administration to round up political opponents up to and including abandoned Walmarts being used as concentration camps and boxcars transiting the state with leg irons on the floor.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Question I need to ask her, they did do it, all right, and so we can argue what was the primary flavor in the stew, but there's no question what the impact was. There was no question that they were in the stew. Look, I was a student on this as well in trying to write the book, and I went to a fellow you probably know, Clint Watts. And okay, Clint, my wife and I sat in an office room in Manhattan for an afternoon and walked him through. And the story that really struck me was not the campaign was Jade Helm 15”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And how then do you use this digital age? To effect maybe a legitimate foreign intelligence activity without it blowing back on the United States.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, yeah, working for Putin. Actually, though, you know, working here, I mean, look, I'd be the last person to claim United States has never conducted a covert influence campaign, which is technically what this is. But you know, even in my time in the agency, and I've been out 10 years now, those became very problematic because we're not allowed to influence American opinion.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So that's what Russia did because, you know, Facebook's making the argument it wasn't that big a deal, what was more was the advertising that Trump and Clinton did well or not well. How do you assess what they did? Everyone was sort of shocked by that. I'm like, of course they took advantage. Why wouldn't you? They're good at it. It's like you would do it, right? If you were running.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Say for sure. If your friends in the bar. Another low hanging Piece of fruit. All right, it is within our technology to know when we're arguing with a human being. Or a server farm in St. Petersburg And I don't think, again, to a degree of certitude that is sufficient. I think the machines we own should suppress the machines they own when they try to pretend as if they're real people.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then there's the abuse, not just that, not just various sources. There was one source at one time on Facebook I was arguing with them along the term, that Hillary Clinton was a lizard at one point, and that kept going everywhere. And I was like, I'm pretty certain I've met her. She's not a lizard. I can't say for sure. But this should not be going on. So there's false news that goes on that creates, then people get a hold of it, like your friends in the bar.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Better essentially. Right, exactly. Again, not suppressing, but giving people an additional view to allow them to make their own evaluation about sources.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so that you actually get a rating from the news site based upon some objective criteria. I've gone to badly rated movies, but I knew what I was getting into. Right, right.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Different high schools, but we learned the same values. All right, I'm really reluctant, the government, to monitor information, suppress information, to say that's untrue information. And so, you know, a really silly, simple thing is rotten tomatoes for news sites.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Talked about this No, I think they do. And so I'm not bright enough to suggest what the new algorithm looks like. All right. But there's some low-hanging fruit here, all right? Such as. Well, for example, political ads. On Facebook should be regulated. I'll be interviewing Cheryl Sam. It's my first question. Like any others. And we all went to the same high school.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, but in a lot of ways these companies have become the CA. You know what I mean? They are the information owners, givers, the data owners. They relentlessly hoard information. And it's useful. They should talk about signals. There's signals everywhere. It's everything. It's humans, signals, and imagery. It's everything all at once. Like you were just talking about. So what is their responsibility, which, and then they, of course, tangle with the government on encryption and everything else? And so now they have to become, they're the purveyors of information. They're supposed to be the protectors of privacy. They're the abusers of privacy. I just recently interviewed Tim Cook on a show for MSNBC where he talked about this. They have a very different point of view, which is that this should not be happening. Facebooks of the world should not be having this much information. What do these companies have to do, or do they not have to do anything? Who's responsible for this?”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So here's the problem with Congress, all right? Because I had this as director of NSA. I would go there and explain, some remember I told you a golden age of surveillance and all that. And obviously, you know, now year comes or intermingled with Abu Zubaydah's comms and that presents a problem. And I'm trying to say, no, we're still doing what you want, but it's a little touchy over here. And this is, so I give this briefing, and I'm a liberal arts major, for God's sake. So I'm using straightforward terms. And the first question I get from the diets, I suddenly realize, okay, they did not understand a thing I said. And so what you've got is people who are at best digital immigrants, right? And didn't know enough to ask the kinds of questions that would have been revealing.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A horse is a horse. That's what it is. It's not an elephant. So, this is what we have. So, what is their culpability and their role? How did you look at, say, what was happening in the Facebook hearings? I thought Congress was almost, I couldn't, I was shocked by their asked questions.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. So, you know, Mark Zuckerberg, I've talked to Mark about this issue, and of course, he's written essays about it, like we've got to figure out a way to move away from that. They're all trying to do this. I'm like, it's designed like this.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'd like them to give it back. Roger, give back the money. But he points out this very dynamic. That it is the essence of how the algorithm works that creates, reinforces, divides.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“With more than any of these, yeah, and it knows you as well as you know yourself. And so it generally trends to give you pleasing things. The longer you stay, the more it's Doritos, the more it drives you to things that reinforce your going in position. So rather than giving you a picture of the tsunami of information, it actually drives you into the darker corners of your own self-identified ghetto. And so you end up dealing with people's data on the web that simply confirms what it was. So it doesn't drive to a discussion. It drives us to our corners. There's a fellow named McNamee who wrote an article in the Atlantic, early supporter, early investor, mentor.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All right, the algorithm. The algorithms designed to keep you on the site. The algorithm is designed to create clicks because that's the profit engine. And she uses the example, and I fully cite this in the book, of it's like Doritos. You can't eat just one because the first Dorito gives you salt and fat, which creates a craving for salt and fat. So what the engine does as currently constructed is you go into Facebook or some social site.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And so we have a population that their historical habits have been based upon digesting curated news for better or for worse, but curated. And now they have news. Right. And now you have news coming at you in just overwhelming volumes. So how strange is this? The director of CIA, former me, gets invited to Sweden. Nobel weekend to take part in a day long discussion on the meaning of truth. Yeah, exactly. Right. So I go there and I do my 10 or 12 minute TED talk. I participate in a couple of panels. But I went there to learn. They're really smart people. And there is one woman that is in a tufecti, Turkish by birth, North Carolinian by choice, who's an expert on social media. And she pins the blame on the algorithm.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so my quick summary is here's a case where technology and ambition Have gotten ahead of law, policy, and most importantly norms. And education. Right. And so now what you have is this tsunami of information coming at us, and dare I use the word in an uncurated fashion.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“types of he does pretty well with that anyway you can find too embarrassed to ask on apple podcasts spotify wherever you listen to podcasts that's two embarrassed ask see you there We're here with General Michael Hayden. He has a new book, The Assault on Intelligence. We've just been talking about the Trump administration and its assault on intelligence and the difficulty of that and the things they keep pushing forward. But one of the things that goes hand in glove with it is how the internet, the enormous cornucopia of information that we get, both correct and incorrect, has had, give me like a quick five-second memorand what you think the culpability of Facebook, Google, and others are in this area. Yeah”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, exactly, which is what we're going to get into in a second because of the internet, because I think it creates, amplifies, and weaponizes information in a way that has been unprecedented. We're here with General Michael Hayden. He's the author of the Assault on Intelligence. He also is a long-term intelligence operative, everything, everything. It worked in the Air Force, all kinds of stuff. He ran the NSA, ran the CIA. And we get back. We're going to talk about the impact of these internet companies and their platforms on this whole difficult situation we find ourselves in. This episode is brought to you by M Particle, the customer data platform for every screen, and I'm here with co-founder and CEO Michael Katz. We know that people are using mobile to research and transact more than ever before, which we've talked about. What's the future of mobile commerce and how does MParticle help its retail or customers like Overstock, Lily Pulitzer, and Jet.com?”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“John gave me a quote that I use in the book and I cite it. It says, you repeat the lie often enough that the lie becomes the truth and then good people defend the lie.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Believe in the president. And they are good Americans In elections, in election form. So when you have the insolvent, and then I do want to talk about the role of these giant tech companies in this, when you have this assault on intelligence, When you have people saying lies over and over again, people do believe them ultimately.”
2018-05-28 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: General Michael Hayden on Donald Trump’s ‘assault on intelligence’ · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT