YouSaid · the spoken record

Michaeleen Doucleff

lines on the record: 110
first: 2024-06-25
most recent: 2024-06-25
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Not having tons of anxiety and depression and like feeling suicidal, and like, you know, like enjoying life, you know, like really enjoying life and enjoying our relationship, enjoying being part of the family, which I think is important for like mentally healthy kids. You know, that means working, having a job, that means having a family, that means whatever that means for her, but like, you know, waking up and being excited about the things she's doing in that day.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So before I wrote the book, it was like what you're talking about like Yale, you know, it's like Rosie speaking Mandarin and going to Yale was this, you know, like, and it, I don't, I don't even wrote the book, I was like, success for me is Rosie feeling growing up mentally healthy.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, they need to build these other skills. I mean, like, I'm a big fan of Cal Newbert, and he talks a lot about how concentrating and these. In doing this kind of deep thinking and stuff takes practice.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's exactly what you like, and delaying it, you know, because the kid's not capable. The parent's not going to stick them in that situation and have them fail. I think if you put the child a phone and stick them in their bedroom or the video game, you're putting them at the seal hole to fail. Right. And so it's not new that this idea, I just think that we have to treat this thing as this tool that's like kids can't learn yet. They don't have the mental capacity. To sit over the hole for six hours. They don't have mental capacity to carry a phone into their room and not go to bed. It's a slow process.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You delay it until they show a lot of interest and really want it, and then it's like, okay, well, where can you go in this Yohan? You're going to be way out there. And then you show me you can do that And then I'll pull you in. I guess that's kind of like”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, what do they do? The dad explained it to me. He's like, when the kid can stay outside for six hours, then we'll take him with us, but we'll park them like way out because if they make noise, they're going to mess it all up. And then if the kid still wants to do it, then we'll slowly bring them closer. And it's like, I mean, I think that's why we have to think of technology is a little bit like seal hunting.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's right. So, like, let's take Inuit hunting. A lot of one of the big goals is to teach boys, but now girls too, it's very mixed, to seal hunt. Many families have to do it. And like, you know, this is a skill you have to learn, right? Well, the seal hunt is crazy. It is a crazy skill. You have to go out on the ice, poke a hole in the middle of nowhere, and then they put a little tiny feather in the hole and you sit there and you stare at it for six hours until the feather moves. And then you stab the ice. This is a very difficult. Task Well, you can't just take a six year old and come to go seal h”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think one of the things that maybe we haven't said explicitly that should be said is like I don't think children can be autonomous with technology some technology”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, like you said, like a prediction machine, I come into an environment and it's like, I know, like I'm predicting everything that I've done here in the past, especially with younger children. I mean, older children too. It's about empowering them so you don't have to say anything to them, right? It's teaching them the skills they need so that they can be autonomous in your environment. So you can either change the environment and get rid of everything, which is what we kind of tend to do with kids, but then you just leave them unempowered, right? Or you slowly teach them, you know? So does that make sense?”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, it really is about setting up your environment. I mean, I said that earlier. Yeah. I said, like, you set up an environment where the child can be autonomous and it's about doing that with the screens. It's going to be hard. It's just going to be harder because they are magnets.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Not sure. I haven't done the cross correlation data on that. But the problem is that parents don't know these things. Like parents, it's not like I say, like it's not an even playing field right now. The tech industry has all this knowledge and tools and goals about technology and how it affects your brain and it affects children's brain more that way because of they're not as developed. And parents have none of it right now. It's a really, really uneven playing field, and we're playing with these old rules of two hours of screen time at night.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I would recommend watching Social Dilemma. You watched that. Have you guys watched that? Definitely watch that. I've heard of 17 years tell me they've had to watch it in school.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Try it in the sense that, like, if you can, one of the neuroscientists who studies dopamine in the eyes told me three hours before bedtime. And so I started doing it, it was crazy, right? That's like seven o'clock, right? And I started doing it like maybe November, and I Shane, I sleep like I've never slept before. I mean, I'm not kidding you. I'm like. I mean, and I think kids will feel the same. I mean, it really affects the sleep. There's no doubt”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, it's more guidance. But then I think that there's these rules that make sense just neurologically, you know, like, no. No screens in the bedroom. Like we got rid of right now, we have no screens after seven, and I try to hold it to myself.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“About what you're doing, right? And he said, okay. And they wrote it out. And he said, Now it's my job as the parent to hold him to that. It becomes more of this cooperation thing where they're like,”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I think at the teenage years, you start, you really need to start to understand how it affects their brain. And how it's manipulating their brain, kind of wiring up their reward system to prioritize it over everything else. Teenagers don't like to be manipulated. So I think you start there. You start with this conversation of how this actually works. One of the neuroscientists said to me, he is a 12-year-old boy, just gave him a phone. He gave him this like hour-long PowerPoint on what the phone does to his brain and how it works and how this thing called sign tracking and all this stuff. And then they had, they sat down and they said, okay, he said, how much of your day do you want the phone to take up? Let's write it down. How much do you want? And I think the kids have done like 45 minutes a day, which sounds”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, right Isn't it interesting how it's all about fear? Because we think it's about reward, but it's actually about fear and the fear and the reward system are all enmeshed.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And you actually transfer the value onto the cues. And it's this very, very, very strong pull to get away from that, you have to protect the child from the cues.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Again, it's this question of wanting it, wanting to pick up your phone and actually enjoying it and actually valuing it and actually like, I think most kids would rather do something else, but they are like, especially teenagers that have been on technology for so long, I mean, their brains are so wired to want it. They call them motivational magnets. Qs turn into these like magnets that pull you there, not the actual software, the cues.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And because I kind of did in the sense that what you're talking about using it as currency, right? So I was pushing it at her.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I'm not talking about the kind of car you I'm not, it's not that blatant. And you can actually find it in these. In conversations or in books, people will say these people will say what you just said. Like kids will say things like, oh, I really like this night because we're not on the screens. You know, so kids, that's what I'm saying. But you can ask them, you can say, like, well, what do you do on the iPad after school? I do this, I do that. And then one little girl said without even me saying anything was like, but you know, I would do something more fun and more better if my parents let me Oh, you don't want to actually be on that bed. No, I don't really want to be on that iPad. Actually, and Rosie one day said to me, like, not that long ago, she said, I thought you wanted me on the Netflix.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think it's fascinating observation. I've been writing a chapter now about how actually kids don't like technology as much as you think they do.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, all these things that you're doing are transmitting the value of you care about interacting with them. More than the phone.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's right, you're basically shaming them. Right Would tell them in the moment like this conversation is important and there, I'm transmitting the value of I value a face-to-face interaction more than some gerbil video on TikTok. But if you look around China, you will see this everywhere. You will see parents actively valuing and modeling the love of technology. The reward system is really a value system. The reward system in the brain is made in animals so to make sure they get food and sex, water, safety, right? But in humans, it can be hooked up to anything that seems valuable. And that's what children are learning. They're learning that the screen, these videos, this video game, this is what our society, this is what my family values.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I wouldn't do it in the moment. You would embarrass the child, you'd make a big scene. In the moment, it's more of a performative parenting device. Which is again what do you value?”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To, you know, it's a 13 year old kid. Like, they should know at that point that's rude to, you know, interrupt in the middle of a conversation. Like, I would tell Rosie that nicely, not maybe not as mean as I just said it.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I would say I'm talking to this is important. I'm having a conversation with Mike Lean right now. Let's discuss this later. And then I would tell the child later. Number one, that's really rude”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm not saying, oh, the TikTok video is more important, but that's not how kids learn. Kids don't learn from what you say is important. Kids learn through practice. And modeling that is how kids learn everything.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Stops our face to face conversation to look at this TikTok video. Like, engage with it. And I just left there, and I was like, What is that transmitting to the children in the room?”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And you're transmitting the value of that I don't think we stop and think enough about how our actions and what we say and what we, the currency we use with children. Transmits values. So for instance, I'm sitting there talking to one of my friends about Jonathan's book, literally about this topic with a mom of two children and the 13-year-old comes over and shows us, look, mom, look at this video of this gerbil. Like while we're talking about this topic, and what does the mom do?”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's what I'm saying. I had to figure out, but then it was, I could see it was like squeezing out other things, and it was like creating conflict. Like, so it's like, what do I value?”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I think it just again, it depends on what you value. What do you think? For a while, Rizzy was kind of addicted to, um, Audiobook Like hours and hours and hours, like six, seven hours on the weekends, you know, of just listening. And so some parents, that would be like amazing. And I mean, I think that's better than watching cartoons in the sense that like she learned narrative structure. She learned an incredible vocabulary, right? Like, like,”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right? Like when I'm bored, when I want to relax and I would even question whether it's relaxing for kids a lot, especially video games, I do this. I can build that habit. I can build that habit in Rosie like that. But maybe better in her life would be like, when I'm bored, I play the piano. I read a book and she's never gonna pick those things if she knows the other is available.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Manipulative device. But then at the end of it, she'd be so crazy. And every night it would be like a struggle and a fight. And like she'd be like a different child. And it was just like, I don't think this is worth it. I don't need this. I can, I don't, first of all, I can motivate her in other ways, ways that don't make her scream at me and ways that don't feel like this struggle and don't make her hyper and don't. And it just feels like a waste of her time. I think I come at it more from the perspective of it's not hurting her, but actually She's going to feel better and have.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like, okay, so we had Rosie, maybe like when she was six, it was like starting like with, you know, Netflix, right? Which is insane, right? And if you watch it, it makes me feel insane to watch some of it. It's like so fast and it's so like psychedelic and it's just like ah and we would every night she would get some time and it would like you saying it was like this currency, right? This like, oh, reward, this like.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And so I think a lot of parents think that, oh, they wanted so much that they like it, right? And that's just wrong. That's based off like 50-year-old neuroscience.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then it's so different than like an hour screen time when I was a kid Right, it's just not the same. So I think you have to do exactly what you're saying. You have to what happens during that hour of screen time? How is the kid behave? What do they behave like afterwards, right? Like how does it make them feel? Like, why do we need to do things? Why do kids need to do things where they feel worse afterwards?”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think you said the key thing here we always talk about time hours of whatever screen but it's like that like I think we need new recommendations from AAP from all the societies because an hour of screen time today can be so different first of all what you're doing”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This is what I worry about. I mean, I think, again, it depends on what they're doing, depends on the kid, depends on their reward center. There's all these genetics involved. And like I have this incredibly addictive personality, like I can get, I'm basically addicted to Gmail, right? Like me and Tristan Harris are like I can get like playman and I'll be like play it again, you know like so like For me an hour a day playing Vegas wouldn't be good.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I mean, that's another thing. It's like screens are not screens. Right, it depends on what they're actually playing, right? But they don't need it.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, if you move it around. I don't know. It's interesting because you could think of the movie. That's a very interesting question to me. I've read both in these books. Like, you should do it at the same time. So if you do it at the same time, the brain will know. The brain will know. And if you don't do it at that time, you'll get like. So this is what we can do.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because in your brain relaxes, I can't, because again, your brain is just a prediction device. It just is predicting where do I get these things? And if it knows, like, I never get it.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So that's like the kind of the desires or like the way we talk about it now, like Sabbath is and hours where we're not is the other way around. Life is without it and these are the times we have it.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, the only way you can bring back these other things into their life is to create environments where their brain knows they can't have it. You have to.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so here's how it works, and this is what I'm just writing about right now our brains are these little prediction devices, right? And when I walk into an environment, my brain does this quick calculation of where am I going to get my rewards in this environment? I'm going to maximize the rewards. And kids are even more this way because their brains are, the prefrontal cortex is less evolved or less developed. If a child walks into the living room and every time they've walked into that living room for the last like five years of their life, they've played on the video game, they've looked at their phone. Their brain is just... Lighting up Lego. Going to use the phone. It's going to exclude out everything else. They're never going to pick up a book because the phone is designed to do that.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I think some of it is like, and I'm not saying that you wouldn't know how to do this at all because I don't want to give that impression, but I think delay is absolutely the right word for many reasons, but also it's about making sure that it is like you're talking about, like it is not, the way it works in the brain is it narrows your desires and wants to this one thing. That's what happens over time. I mean, you see it with kids, right? It's like all they do is on their phone, right? They do nothing else. And I think that to me is like the key and it's what you're talking about. It's like having these spaces and time and valuing of other things. And I mean, we could talk about this for like an hour. We could like go on and on about this. And I feel like we've kind of gone on a tangent, but.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Absolutely, because they have like a prefrontal cortex, right The Inuit were really interesting because they have tons of video games, tons of TV, like the grandmother we were with was like, she spent like a week out in the land hunting caribou. And then she comes back. She's like, I got so much CSI to catch up on. Like there's this like very.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Interesting because all the data show that when they get the phone, they make them more lonely It makes them more isolated”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. So the Maya is very fascinating. The Maya, many of the parents told me that they don't get a phone until they can pay for it.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think technology is probably easier to talk about. I mean, it's designed to make the child use it. So it's not a secret, right? To shape the child's behavior and their activities. And so it's hard to be as a parent to just let that go.”
2024-06-25 · The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish · #197 Michaeleen Doucleff: The 4 Biggest Mistakes Parents Make · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT