YouSaid · the spoken record

Phyl Terry

lines on the record: 146
first: 2024-09-12
most recent: 2024-09-12
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“That's not a statement about your worth. It's just you're not ready for that conversation. So you can do it poorly, but if you do it well, if you've done your homework, you know, and you're open, oh my gosh, there's four counterintuitive rules here. Asking for help is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of confidence. It both requires confidence and strengthens it, Lenny. That's number one. Two, it's not a taking activity. It's a giving activity. If you do it well, you're actually being given to the people you ask. This is really counterintuitive, Lenny. This is what I teach in my product councils, right? I'm like, you have to ask for it. If you ask for help and you're open and vulnerable, you're a smart person. So at one point Marissa came in and said,”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Suddenly, everybody wanted to talk to Marissa. I got all these random emails I've never met. Oh, I've got software. Would you please introduce me to Marissa? I think she'd want to, you know, license it or, you know, buy it at Google. I'm like, what? That was the dumbest. Of course I'm never going to answer that, right? If they hadn't reached out to me and said, I know you don't know me. I have this small software company. I'm not well connected. But I would love your advice on how to grow this business and what you would do if you were in my shoes, which I have never received, Lenny, even though I've written about it in sentiment. I would have done that phone call. Know, and then if they have said, Well, can I talk to Marissa? I'm like, you have not earned that yet.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was going to high school, and I was in a tough situation. And it was, I mean, it was transformative, Lenny. It was transformative. And did I feel like asking for help was a weakness? I did. You know, did I think people were going to think less of me? Absolutely. I thought all the things that people think. And it is not what happens. Now, there is a warning here. If you ask for help poorly, and I'm going to define that, it does end up leading to bad consequences. What do I mean by asking for help poorly? I mean, if you don't do your homework, if you're asking for someone to do it for you rather than advise and support and give you perspective, we all know that. I get these emails, let me say, so when I started the product councils, Marissa Meyer was a founding member, right? Marissa Meyer, Google and Miriam Mohi did Amazon. And as Mauricia's reputation grew,”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Letty. I mean, it just, you know, I was carried by these teachers. And I also have to give a shout out and I'm going to cry now to my girlfriend in high school, Karen Kavanaugh, whose family had very few resources. They were struggling. They made a home for me. And I couldn't have done it without them and some of my other friends and my teachers. Like, you know, I was, you know, I worked a full-time job by the age of 16.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First, I want to shout out my mom again. So, my mom's name, her nickname was Chick C-H-I-C. Her friends and family, and I dedicate the book to Chick. And she started that first council in 1960. And she asked for help. Of course, she taught me to ask for help and to start councils. And of course, when I was very young, I didn't want to do what my mother said, right? You're not right. But I ended up in a bad situation and she's like, you've got to ask for help. And I asked my high school teachers for help. I was alcoholic at the age of 12, Lenny. And things were really spiraling downwards. And I was no longer living with my mom. There's a whole long story about that. And I was in a pretty unsupportive position. And she's like, you've got to ask for help. And so I did. Huh O MG”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not just to be really. I just can't say anything. I'm not asking you to rock the boat. Asking you to take charge and demonstrate the power of who you are. These companies will love it.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Know, so you're not going to even in a down market, you're going to get even, you know, you won't even get the jobs that, you know, your candidate market fits to just you're good for in that down market. You're going to get slide down a few more notches, or you just won't get offers. And then you're going to get paralyzed and feel like you're really worthless. And if anyone watching this has been out of work for a while and feels that, let me just tell you, you are not worthless. You are not worthless, and I and I want you to invest in yourself, to prove that to yourself that you're not worthless. You are worth the investment of this time and energy. I'm not asking you to do this for me. I'm asking you to do this for you.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Gives you confidence to walk in there as who you are. Lenny, not as your inner critic, but as the whole good person that you are. And that's, and when you show up, this is one of the reasons Job Search Councils are so important because if your anxiety and fear starts to run away and erode at your confidence, it will hurt your interviewing. You will not show up well.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, I wouldn't say the word therapy because, of course, that implies certification and training, but there's a therapeutic aspect to it. I feel comfortable saying that”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I love it. And we all have it. Like, people think, oh, like everyone. And that's what I love about this moment we're into, Lenny. You know, I started therapy in the 1980s. In the 1980s, you did not share that you were in therapy. Okay. Today, we have tennis stars talking about their emotional well-being and their therapy and how they're doing. It's beginning to normalize in some really important ways that emotions are not bad and they're actually really important to the decision-making system, but they can also go off in certain ways that can really hurt us.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ideas about what happened. We think we did terribly when we did well. We think, you know, and we need to talk it through with someone else who can help us parse exactly what happened and really where we're at. I had a woman who was a director of product. She was interviewing for a VP of product role. She texted me after the interview. Oh, I screwed it up, this and that, this and that. But they really liked me and we're going to go to the next round. I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Something is not true here. Like, this is just your own imposter syndrome and inner critic. That's another exercise we have people to do, by the way, is what we call the inner critic exercise. Name the critic, you know. Mine is tub tour. I was overweight when I was a kid. My dad called me tub tour.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I ask people to take a moment and reread the Gratitude House exercise, remind themselves of everyone they're carrying with them to imagine that they're on your shoulders. All of those people, including your Job Search Council, of course, and everyone you've talked to and you're listening to, you're walking in with 50 people, Lenny, okay, even people who tell me, I don't know anyone. Now that is not true. You know, you might not know as many people as I do. Okay, that's understandable. My job is to know people, okay? But everyone knows some people and you bring them with you, even metaphorically, so that you feel not alone when you're going in to that interview. The other thing I say with the interview and the negotiations is you've got to go do a deep brief right afterwards, Lenny, because we all have these cockamani.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I want you to do that gratitude house exercise, and then it can sometimes surface people that you'll go talk to and listen to her. Might not talk to your third grade teacher, but you'll go talk to someone. Now, when you're going into interview,”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the book, Before You Do the Listening Tour, I ask people to do what I call the gratitude house exercise, which is to think about who are all the people in your life who have helped you get to where you are today. I mean, you could talk about your third grade teacher. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just talking on, I just want you to do that. And I want you to do that because everyone has this idea that they're allowed. We have all received enormous hope to do what we're doing. Whoever we honor. You know, even the hermit in the desert was born to a mother. Okay, you know, and they did not make it themselves for the first several years of their lives, right? We all are born of mothers. We all are born of families and communities, some better or worse. I had a pretty tough childhood, but there was love.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. Now, some companies know this, and they're like, you have to talk to the person we designate the internal recruiter, but you can also get back to that hiring manager, you know, and even informally. Again, if you've built a good relationship and everything is about building good relationships, Lenny, I want you to be a good interviewer. I want you to ask good questions. I want you to listen. I want you to present that John Michigan OKRs that shows how innovative, how much you take initiative and how much you're thinking about this and how much you want this, right? Every step of the way.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Strongly, strongly want you to do it either in person or over the phone live with the hiring manager. Now, some companies won't let you do that. You have to talk to the HR person or whatever. But as much as you can work with the hiring manager, even if it's to say, hey, I just want to run by you some of the things I think I need to succeed in the role before we talk money with the hiring manager or whatever, with the recruiter I mean. And they'll go to bad for you behind the scenes if you do that. Not guaranteed, but more like, you know.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it almost never does. And again, you could be a jerk about it. That won't be good. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about collaborative conversation. I'm talking about what you need to succeed, showing them that you're thinking about resources, support, budget that will help you deliver on the things that you've signed up for. And then asking, you know, are you open if they didn't quite hit your range?”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Here's the thing I do too. And I talk about this in the book. And Jason Free, you know. You know, Jason Freet's got this great thing where they have all very clear bands 37 signals at base camp. He's like, because no one's trained in negotiation. Half of me expect people to negotiate. And this is another thing Marty says about my book. He says, you know, what he loves is that companies have all of these resources. They've got lawyers and HR people. And you're there alone. That's why you need your job search council. This is when you really need to ask for help because every bone in your body is going to say, I'm not going to negotiate. That's going to make it worse.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And most of the time they say, yes, and they may not even get you, they may not get you to 450. They were like, you know what? Yes, thank you. We could let me get back to you, you know, or no, we could go to 420. Does that work? You know, great.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now that's a longitudinal statistic, meaning over many years. It's going to be lower in a moment like this, but you can still ask. And people are afraid to ask. Again, don't ask in some shark way, like some of my friends in business might do, some M&A negotiators, whatever. No, like, you know, are you open unless it's a deal breaker? You know, if it's a deal breaker, just be open about that. But if it's not like, let's say they offered you whatever it is, 400 base with up to 100%, whatever, and some RSUs or options, blah, blah. And you really wanted 450. Lenny, you can say, hey, are you open? To 450, that was really what I was hoping for when I think I'm worse. Are you open to that? Is that something we can talk about?”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know this, right? And this is true every from individual contributor to CEO. By doing the job mission with OKRs and by showing them that draft, you are showing them, not telling them, showing them that you take initiative, that you're accountable, that you can make things happen. And then in the sovereign negotiation, by talking to them about what you need to succeed, you're showing them that you really want to succeed. And guess who that benefits? That benefits the company, obviously. So, I want you to do that first. And then, okay, so let's talk money. Now 87% of the time, Lenny, when you ask for more money, you're getting.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. And I will say that there's less negotiating room today than there was two years ago because of the market that we're in. And the data all bears that out. We see that. But here's the other piece of data. So I want you to ask for things that tie back to the LKRs that you've already agreed on with the hiring manager. This is how this thing connects together, right? It's like Legos. And then we come to the money. And you've had this lovely conversation. You've shown them how much you're invested in succeeding. That's what you see Lenny, the problem that every hiring manager has is distinguishing be someone between someone who is a good talker and someone who can actually make things happen.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And this is so counterintuitive, Lenny. I'm sort of the queen of counterintuitive stuff. Candidate Market Fit is counterintuitive, right? But this is as well. People think they're going to lose the opportunity when it actually wins them. Now, of course, if they marched in and said, damn it, you have to do X and Y, right? That's not what I'm talking about. Hey, here's how I see it. This is the OKRs. I think we're going to need this. Does that make sense to you? You know, and you're having a collaborative conversation about how you need to be set up for success. And by the way, if they say, no, I hear you. I believe you, but no, then you make a judgment decision. I'm not always saying you turn that away. He was like, well, especially if you need a job, right? But you're now going in eyes wide open. Okay, you're not going to be able to relieve that tech debt initially.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That was the $20 million. That was right. And again. It was not, yes, people feel really shy about this. But the company was like, love that they understood what it was going to take. Because I will tell you what, if the company doesn't like this, it's a huge red flag. Huge red flag. It means they're not serious, right? But if you're talking to them, hey, I think we're going to need, I'm going to need to, you know, train the team. I'm going to need to hire three more ICs. Or, you know. the design function is weak or whatever it might be you know do you and you're like do you agree do you see it this way you know and they're like yeah that's right good you know wow you're already like bang bang bang we haven't even been finished negotiating your salary”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Like companies love this. And even if you're a junior person, you're not going to negotiate budget, but you can talk about like mentorship, professional development, what kinds of, you know, will you be able to attend conferences or training? Again, and this is like, we're not hard, we're not hard negotiating this. We're saying, here's what I think I'm going to need to accomplish the LPRs that we've already agreed upon.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“About it when you get here, but they didn't really commit, and they never addressed it one month, six months, 12 months, 18 months later, he's looking for a job. This is the opportunity cost of not being set up for success. Now, again, don't hear this as antagonistic. We're not antagonistic here. We're trying to say, whoops, going to help me succeed. So one CPO recently was negotiating, like, I'm not just talking about budget for tech debt or whatever. If you're a senior person, like, Do you think that team needs more training? Do you need to send them over to Marty's workshops, over to my product councils, right? Get them into Lenny's community. The company's like, you're negotiating the training budget of the team that you don't even run yet. Well, we're talking about your salary. We love you. We're going to pay you even more. I'll pay you anyway.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've thought about, I think there's like $10 million of tech debt here. Does that sound right to you? And are we on board that we're going to like, that'll be priority one to eliminate the first day and start the job? We had two CPOs, both interviewing at private equity firms, private equity-owned companies about the same size, SaaS companies. One had tech debt of 20 million, one had tech debt of 10. I told them both, you got to get that, talk about that in the So one talk about it in the negotiation and the company was like, oh, that's great. They wrote a check on day one. Six months later, the tech debt was relieved. They updated the systems. They were able to get into innovation. A year later, they got promoted to a GM role in addition to their CPO role. And then a year after that, they were being interviewed for the CEO role. The other person where there was 10 million of tech debt was kind of shy about asking, sort of mentioned it. They're like, oh, we'll talk.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Get the offer, and again, this raises the odds of getting the offer, it then sets you up to negotiate what I call the four legs of the negotiations tool. This is not hard negotiation. This is something that company loves. I actually say, you know, you get an offer and it's like, whatever, $250,000 base with a 30% bonus. You know, this is maybe a director or whatever or a senior manager. Maybe it's an 800 base, you know, if you're more senior, whatever it might be. I want you to go and talk to the hiring manager, if possible, not the hopefully not the recruiter that we'll talk about that. And I want you to say This is great. I want to talk about money, but before we do, I want to think about some of the things that will set me up to succeed in this role.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Who is this person? They're already thinking about what they're accountable and the outcomes, and naturally they're thinking about it better than I am, which is fantastic, right? So it raises the odds. And you're like, oh, this is fantastic. But you also say, Oh, you know, this thing you have here, this I don't care, this isn't part of the role. Like, oh, that's helpful to understand. But this thing that you don't have listed is, oh, really? Lenny, how many times we're going to, I'm going to ask people in the audience to raise their hands. How many times ahead of you taken the job A that turned out to be job B? Everybody just raised their hands. So this helps to address that, right? So, and then.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And Lenny, can you imagine how hiring managers feel when they get this job issue with OKRs? I was hacking to a senior guide at Amazon who's hired more than two thousand product leaders and others. He said, Phil, no one in this, he's part of our product account. He said, no one in my life has ever done this. If someone did this, it would blow my mind. I would hire them on the spot. And that's the message I want these folks to understand. We talk about silver metals, Lenny. In the job search, the silver metal sucks. At the Olympics, hey, it's pretty good. You get to be on the podium. But guess what? Civil medal is almost worse than because you were almost there. And we have a number of videos and other things we would talk about. The difference in many cases between getting the silver and gold has been doing the job mission with OKRs. Companies say this is what distinguished you. This is what led, we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The company you join. Now, you keep it private at first because drafting it. Things has multiple benefits. The first is drafting it will help you understand and develop great interview questions to ask them, to clarify what is this job? And they'll be impressed by them. Okay? The second thing is once you've had a couple of interviews and it's a draft now, it's not a full final thing. This is so important. I want you to pull a hiring manager aside and say, hey, Lenny, you're the hiring manager. I've thought about what the role is. I want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly. Can I share something with you? I don't want you to email it. I want you to do a phone call, Zoom, or coffee or whatever.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Your audience knows what an OKR is. Objectives and key results. I assume I don't need to explain that. It needs to be something where you are saying, here's what I think I'm going to be accountable for. Here's what I'm going to actually, the outcomes I'm going to deliver, right?”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“At least in this sense. And no, no, I'm like, what I want you to do, and it's just, it's just, it's great, it's a great tactic that we stumbled upon. And it's one of the best tactics in the book. And I really hope we can get the other half of the people who are in the community to do this and your listeners who aren't involved who decide to join also do this. When you start interviewing, I want you to create your own version of the job description. I want you to know it privately, Lenny. And I want you to create what I call a job mission with OKRs. Now most job descriptions, they suck, Lenny. The company doesn't know what the F they're doing. They don't know exactly what they're looking for. And so, but I'm not telling you to say that to them. Just to be clear, I'm telling you, I want you to create your own job mission with OKRs. This is key. It needs to be with OKRs.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“50% Lenny of the people who read my book join a job search council and follow everything I've described like the people don't do what I'm about to tell you okay it is the biggest mistake and miss and I'm really sorry about this and I'm on the you know I'm on a campaign right so here's the thing when you start to interview and negotiate you've got to be in charge People think when I'm saying this is collaborative coaching. I want you to play to win, not to lose. Now, when people hear me say that, they translate it in their brains into Ophil is saying that I've got to be a ruthless negotiator. If anyone who knows me, I'm like, ruthless is just not how I am, you know.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There'll be a link to where you can download not only that template, but all the templates. You don't even have to join a job search council to get all this stuff. I hope you do again, it's free. And people like, I will say early on people like, what's the trick here? This is free and you're going to charge me. No. No, this is free. I feel very I've dedicated, why am I making it free? Because one, I can, which is cool. Second, this is in honor of my mom. And third, I want to create a private safety net for the ravages of creative destruction. It's great. A lot of positive consequences, but there's negative ones. And I just don't love the idea of charging people. This I charge people for other things, but not for this.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I tell another story in the book about DeeDee. She was a cheap date officer, of a large company. She went in tech, wanted to become a CTO. She had a technology and engineering background as well as Data. She spent a year spending her wheels alone. I said, join a job search council. She figured out her candidate market. It turns out she was a great fit for a mid-sized regional bank CTO. And within three weeks, she had three offers. A year, nothing. Within three weeks, three offers. So I can't guarantee they're going to get three offers within three weeks, right? I'm not saying that. Some of you, it might take you six months or a year. And the more senior you are, Lenny, the longer it is. If you're a CEO, it's going to take you a long time unless you happen to be the CEO of Chipotle. Just became the Starbucks”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Just that again, that you're going to resist. The narrowness of it Every bone in your body just know that that's what everyone is feeling. But go watch. I have this great video online of he was a VP of product. He was initially masked, but VP of product at Nike. I met him through Marty and Chris at Silicon Valley product group. He joined one of our product councils. And then he decided to leave. And he's like, Phil, I love you, but this candidate market fit stuff. No, you're wrong. It needs to be Bry. And so he went out and he actually spoke to a bunch of BCs and like, we don't have any idea what to do with you. You have to tell us something really specific. You're like, oh man. So he went, he's like, Philly. So he redid it.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it will still be hard It will still be hard. I wish that weren't true, Lenny. Now I will tell you that, look, what's the difference between now and the dot-com depression of 2000, 2001, and Difference is that we were a much smaller industry then. And people had been in web jobs only for a couple years. Where now we've got people who are in jobs for 10, 15 or more years in tech who have never seen a downturn, have never seen a market like this. We've never seen a tech market like this. It will improve at some point. But right now, it's tough. And I can't change that, but I can provide tools. I can provide community. I can provide heart and smarts so that you can get the best job you can get right now.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One of the concepts Lenny, I talk about you've got to be the I in village. There's no I in team. Well, there is an I in village. Okay. And the IN Village is that when I'm saying you've got to ask for help, you've got to be a part of JobSearch Council, you have to be independent and accountable and responsible. I'm not saying you're not going to become passive independent. This is how you become more independent. This is how you stand up and be more accountable and responsible. This is how you can do the best search possible in the market conditions that we have.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They're struggling. Again, I don't have a magic wand. As I talked to them, what was happening? They stopped networking. Left their job search council. Know, they weren't updating their candidate market fit to the changing market condition. I'm like, you have to do everything. You can't get passive.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Again, if you're in a job search council and also you're in our Slack community, what you're going to find is that you're not alone. So that's a big thing. It's not just you. There's nothing wrong with you. This is the market that we're in. And by the way, the more relationships you build, the better you do your listening tour. One of the things I tell, one of the tactics Lenny, I tell people is you've got to send out an update note every month to all of your network that you've talked to. And it might be, I don't have a job yet, or I don't even have any news, but I just want to let you know I'm still going and I appreciate everything you've done for me and I'm still looking for acts. That could be it, you know, and Justin in his note, I referenced him earlier as chief product officer, his note on LinkedIn today said, you know, Phil told me to keep people updated and I didn't do it enough and don't make that mistake. You got to do that. Lenny, I met with a group of about 50 job seekers recently who've been in the Never Search Alone Community for more than a year.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's how creative destruction works. The closer you are to the technology frontier, the more new jobs and opportunities there are. The further you are from the technology frontier, the worse you're going to be over the long run. You might be able to get a better sounding job in the short term, but you're going to find yourself stuck.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I believe every human is worthwhile person. And I deeply believe in belonging and giving people support, you know, and spreading love and creating community. But I also believe in being practical and realistic. And like, I didn't create this situation. I'm just trying to report to you what the situation is and how you can manage it so that you don't get stuck. How many people have you seen Lenny who get stuck? They get stuck in a bad job. They're not learning. And then they can't go from there. They get into their 40s and 50s and it is tough. A number of people in the job search community who are in their 50s, 60s, whatever they're dealing with ageism. They're dealing with, they're not close enough to the technology frontier, you know, you've got to get closer to the technology frontier. Even if that means you're going to go from the EVP to an IC role.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ten days later, they were a public company, massive fraud, and they went bankrupt. I said, okay, like, you are, the market is clear. The only CI ball you're fit for is the company that's about to go bankrupt. And you're like, okay. And he went back to VP of product role. I said, if you want to become a COO from that role, where you are today, one of the great paths is to do it from that job inside a company. Okay. And that's what he ended up doing. It was a two-step strategy. He couldn't go straight there. I'm not talking about people's innate worth, Lenny.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Shoot. It didn't really hit the fan in the tech world, fortunately. This does not swear. So this, you know, I talk about this in the book. Like sometimes you need a two-step strategy. Like let's say you want to be a VP of product at a top streaming company or whatever it is. But you're not a fit for that today. So the question is, how do you step there? I tell a story in the book about a guy who'd been a VP of product. He wanted a COO role. He was not a fit. He was not a fit, Lenny. And it was very clear. The market was telling him he did the listening tour. But he came back to me and said, I don't care. I want to see OO. So he interviewed 50 companies, right? 50. Can you imagine it took him a year and a half? The 50th company hired him.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Know, and that's what Justin was talking about. This can be hard humiliating at times to figure out we had another person who was a chief product officer in a startup. And she was a great. She helped me with the book. She was an early reader. She's a member of your community, Lenny. And she realized that she wasn't getting the right product training. She was the only product person she didn't really know she was doing. Well, what was your Canon market fit? It was an IC. It was an IC role, individual contributor role or the larger tech company. And to her credit, she realized that was the right path for her learning. And she did this before the...”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right He talked to people, and I helped him network with people in Silicon Valley. They were just honest with him.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And there's someone who ran hundreds of people, corner office, limo, first class, you know what I mean, in the airplane. What was their candid mark bid? They went out and did this. Their canon market fit. If they were going to join a top streamer, was as an individual contributor, Lenny. Because those kind of like, they didn't respect much of what they brought from traditional media. And if he had done this church alone, he would not have done that. But to his credit he decided to take that. And it transformed his career. Because now someone who had a lot of management experience but also tied now with one of the top streamers, he's just done incredibly well. But that is really hard to do.”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It might be helpful to people I was coaching, he was an EVP at a traditional media company, but on the digital side running their streaming business. But it was very much an old economy, old media company. It was not, this was not an A player in the streaming space. And they smartly recognized that if they stayed there, they were going to end up in a pretty bad cul-de-sac. And by the way, that company's had layoffs. So they decided they wanted to go work for a company like Netflix or Apple TV, right?”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Stand working at a startup. I'm not telling you you should go there necessarily. But I will say this, and again, if you need to put food on the table, right? Like we were talking to someone recently, they had moved to a new city and then were laid off the next day. They moved for the company and then they were laid off the next day. Okay. And they're like, okay, I need to get a job. I said, okay, yeah, sure. You know, just know that if you're going to get any job just to have while you still look for a long There's just know that that's hard. That's a hard pen. I understand it and I support it. It makes sense, and it's hard. It's harder than you realize, and you absolutely have to keep your job search council. Know because otherwise you're gonna get lost. Can I share one story about candidate market fit?”
2024-09-12 · Lenny's Podcast · Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source