YouSaid · the spoken record

Shannon Curry

lines on the record: 113
first: 2023-03-21
most recent: 2023-03-21
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“There have been some profound moments in my life where I feel like I am closest to kind of the truth of life or What it's all about. And usually there's this resonating sense of love and ease and love for myself, love for other people. Sort of like it's all okay. We're all okay. We're going to get through this. I liked what you said about the harm caused by the misinformation or negative things being said about you because you're right, it harms that bigger picture. I think it holds us back, takes us back from that truth”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My friend Fanny posted a meme of one of the girls from Glears that they crying and saying like, I'm the happiest I've ever been. And she said it reminds her when I try to convince her to do forensic psych because I think her mind is perfect for it. You have to be strategic and thorough. But it's a slug. But it's wonderful. It's wonderful.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Dear friend still to this day that was 20 years ago. We do research together in Mexico, integrative research with public policy officials and environmental engineers and I get to be the psychologist on the trip. I never ever dreamed that that sort of stuff could happen. I didn't know about forensic psychology. I also want to warn anybody who's interested in forensic psychology that it's not like you're like solving crimes all day and getting calls by the FBI. You are going to be sitting alone in your home office with your husband bringing you like bowls of cereal and reminding you to go to the bathroom because you haven't gotten up in like 24 hours from the computer and you're going to have papers all around you and you're just going to write 75 dense pages with citations of like science. It's brutal. It's academic.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm going to tell them something my dad told me. He said to me, Shannon, just pick anything. Pick anything. If you like it at all, studying it, just pick it. He was like, look, don't worry about the job. You don't even know all the jobs that exist. Pick something you like. You will make it your own. And that is exactly what happened. I like psychology. I was reading somehow self-help books. It's not like I had this calling where I, you know, looking back, I can actually create that story because I think now it makes a lot of sense that I do what I do. But I was lost and scared. I started studying psychology. I met a professor who was really inspiring, who wasn't even a psychology professor, but he was public policy. I stayed in touch with that professor. He is a”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They want to kill someone that they have a whole lot of racist beliefs and thoughts. There are a lot of things that can be associated with PTSD that aren't as clear or expected. And these guys don't have many people who understand it or they don't think they would. But a lot of their fellow service members do.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In my experience, the guys I work with who have served a lot of people who understand what they've been through. Not only some of the unspeakable things they've been through in combat, but some of the things that they feel are unspeakable about returning, especially if they are experiencing trauma. A lot of them, you know, some of the things that service members with PTSD are the most reluctant to disclose is the feeling like they may not know if they love their children anymore or their wife, that they don't even know if they can love anymore, that they feel emotionally numb.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You're seeing, we talked earlier about that vulnerability, right? So I believe that combat, I believe that most survival situations strip away all ego. There are a couple different layers to this, but I have not served in war. So I want to be cautious here. But from what I know, just about psychology and also from my own experience of survival type experiences, when you're with a group of people and The egos stripped away. Nothing else matters. The focus is on the here and now and a specific mission or your day-to-day. You can get really close. You're very, very vulnerable. And also”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is even happening and trying to get these guys in for assessment. I think we can criticize any system. I'm glad that system is even happening, but it still needs to be better.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Etc. And they are having a one hour meeting, sometimes by phone with one of these psychologists who's been contracted by this third party organization. That's not even enough for me to get through the first few symptom questions on the CAPS5 assessment for PTSD. But in that hour, the psychologist is saying definitively no PTSD. And it's been a travesty for some people, especially for those who need an advocate the most. It tends to happen to my veterans who are maybe a little bit less sophisticated in presenting or advocating for themselves more humble, less, you know, the guys who deserve it the most, right? They're just getting passed over and it's a maze. I'm not quite sure what the solution is though before. I mean, I've worked for government agencies. It's a massive population. I love that the outreach.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The problem is they were trying to get all of these people assessed for PTSD, and it was great. Like they were getting phone calls, mail. It was sort of saying, hey, we know that you served. Come on in or let's schedule you an exam with a psychologist and just see if you're owed benefits. The idea of it's great. The problem is that they outsource to this third party company. They're paying really low rates for one hour meeting with a vet. And you don't need to be specifically trained in assessing PTSD. And so you're getting these variations and opinions that are coming through. And I've had clients who to me who I've worked with for years who have clear combat related PTSD according to gold standard measures, according to my knowing them and observing their symptoms and how impaired they are. And it is clearly associated with combat. The content of their intrusive thoughts, their nightmare.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It was phenomenal training. And, you know, our psych department, there was so much interesting research going on. We had, and it was so integrated. So you might not imagine that the military would be doing this, but we had an acupuncture department. We had chiropractic department. We had a yoga section. We were doing yoga sessions there. I mean, anything that has evidence to support its efficacy was being utilized. And I think that's pretty cool about our government. They have a lot of funding, so I'm glad they're using it on that. The real challenge, I think, comes with the large-scale need of the veterans. And they slip through the cracks. I know that the DoD had a campaign going where they were doing outreach. Anybody who served, for instance, in the Vietnam War.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I will hand it to the military because I think in terms of working with their active duty service members, they really invest heavily in mental health. The U.S. Department of Defense was one of the first to bring animal assisted therapy into any type of treatment in the early 1900s with bringing farming into certain hospitals and letting veterans help with the farms and brush the horses, which is so advanced because now we have all this research on animal assisted therapy and how beneficial it is in just looking in the eyes of a dog can increase your pain threshold and speed healing after a cardiac arrest, help people with dementia ambulate more freely. It's incredible stuff, simple. And the military was ahead of the game on that. And I don't think that's changed. I did my training at a military hospital in Hawaii, Tripler Army Medical Center.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They did something that they have a hard time reconciling outside of war now that they're back home in civilization depends on whether they lost a lot of their comrades and feel that guilt of being a survivor. And again, not everybody develops PTSD. It's a mental disorder. It's serious. We talk so much about trauma and PTSD gets thrown around lightly when actually it's very difficult to meet the full criteria for that diagnosis. And many people. Condition that is significantly impairing in a person's life. And I think we've lost that in some of the sort of narrative in society. It just everybody has PTSD. But no, you can have traumatic stress. You can be distressed. You can be affected by trauma and not have that particular diagnosis. PTSD significantly empowers people's lives.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, if we're talking about combat exposure, you're seeing Things you're not meant to see. You're seeing the worst of humanity, people harming other people. It's not natural for others to intend to harm us. It's not natural for us to harm others. This dehumanization can occur that's so troubling and disturbing that people have a hard time living with it later, or they just feel this ongoing anger. It depends. It depends on the trauma they're exposed to. It depends on whether their convoy was ambushed by weapons that were purchased from money that was given to this village from the US government. It depends on whether”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't want to do this anymore. Is this going to stop? And then another question came, and I just had to get back to it. But so after I testified, the first time I went in that back room, I might have laid down on the ground. It's kind of a blur. I mean, I might have. I do remember that Wayne Dennison, one of the senior managing partners at Brown Rednick, who is a phenomenal guy and absolutely brilliant. I will be indebted to him for life because I trusted him. I trusted him and that made all the difference in probably how I testified, but he came in the back and he was looking at his phone and he said, you're on the cover of time, something on, you know, like Apple News. And I thought, I mean, I really thought he was messing with me. I thought it was his joke way of saying like, I did great.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I mean, I could talk about that too the moment I came to almost like came back to my body and realized where I was and just wanted it to stop and felt like I was burning alive. I just was thinking I don't want to do this anymore.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The lovely question. Thank you for asking it because I'm. It is nice to talk to you about this because I feel like you probably understand it a little bit. That was something I was absolutely unprepared for. Like I said, I had no idea how many people were watching when I testified. I had no idea. And I got off the stand. I kind of staggered to the back room and truly thought about lying down on the floor because I was so exhausted. And, you know, I'd been up studying all my stuff, terrified that I was going to forget some statistic about the MMPI too.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A lot. I don't get no. And honestly, it's not a work in progress, right? I don't have an answer for. I wouldn't want my life to be any other way. I, you know, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to work on this case if I hadn't established my practice and had outreach. So I can't figure out which piece you take it out without it all crumbling But I would love to have a little more downtime.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I think I. I kind of traversed into an area without realizing it where I was no longer pushing myself to challenge myself or see what I was capable of. I was almost pushing myself like as a necessity because I didn't know what else to do anymore. Just an obligation. It wasn't even, yeah, it wasn't pushing myself to do. Depp herd case reminded me of that feeling of pushing myself to do something I wasn't sure I was capable of and overcoming that challenge. That was rewarding. But when you're piling that on with like running a business and all these other things and trying to be perfect at all of them, that just starts to become like a feeling of necessity and it's not healthy.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Necessarily mean that it's going to be easy for someone to accept when I can't talk to them and they just found out, you know, their husband was leading a double life or, you know, their sister just died and I can't even get on a call because I'm getting maybe 15 messages like that a day and have to testify and have to run my practice. So I think that was why I need to slow down this case I was doing all of that and then like the academic load or the work involved was just tremendous. And some stuff happened. Like my dad, he started having his cognitive decline. I got a medical diagnosis that is stress induced. I really thought I was getting away with it. I really believed that people who talk like a lot about self-care were kind of full of shit and just didn't know how to push themselves. I still believe in pushing ourselves.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What happens is you have clients who maybe you've stopped seeing, but when they have a crisis in their lives, they reach out to you again, even if it's seven years later. So you've accumulated hundreds of clients who at any given time are going to reach out when they're in crisis, whether or not you're working on a federal case or in Virginia for this. And that is never going to be something easy to grapple with because I feel that I am letting somebody down. I know I am because these are people I genuinely care about and they care about me and they trust me. And I want to be able to be there for them. I know that it's disappointing if I can't be. And it's also very difficult to separate out the professional therapy relationship from loving someone who you've seen through some of the most difficult parts of their lives. And I can explain that to people all day long, but it doesn't.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You're going to work all the time, work yourself in the ground, constantly be thinking about, oh, this question, I'm not sure if I fully know the answer and all the research behind that. So I should go there. And again, super fun. But I don't just do forensic psychology all day. I also own a clinic. I provide therapy.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It took a lot, but it was really the culmination. I feel like there are these hoops we jump through again and again, you know, academic challenges that we continue to meet. And then there's a next one and a next one and a next one. And in the beginning, like when you're getting into college or applying to grad schools, you don't really realize this is going to be a never-ending thing, especially if I continue with research or forensic work. I love it because it is so academic. You know, you're writing these 75 page reports and with citations and you have to be accurate. It feels like doing giant board exams again and again and again. It never ends, but that feeling, I think you and I were talking about how it's fun to doubt yourself because it pushes you to do better work. But so if you keep having high stakes.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Uh, no, I mean, I, you know, my practice hasn't changed that much. This was more just something that was more, it demanded so much more of my time than my typical friendsnic work does. And personal injury cases where there is an allegation of trauma, psychological harm tend to be super labor intensive. This given the magnitude and how long it had been going on in the back and forth required a ton of work before the trial as well. So it pulled me away from the practice. I think it's been nice to go back a bit. Okay, so now personally, I've learned some things. I've learned that I need to slow down a little bit.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Wow. I mean, a lot happened in my life around that trial leading up to the trial after the trial. So let's tackle forensic psychologists first. Okay, so in terms of forensic psychology, I am grateful to that trial for really strengthening my abilities. The stakes were so high that I took, you know, I was retained about two years prior to the trial. So I really delved deep into the academic side of forensic psychology and making sure that I was adhering as closely as possible to standard practices, best practice recommendations for this specific type of an examination. It was intellectually awesome and challenging. I felt like my brain was on fire for a full year leading up to the trial. And that can be really, really fun. It was just challenging, but I am really proud of the work I did. I think the stakes were really high. It's serious work. It's important that it's done well.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You, the consistency or inconsistency of their self report from the records, what the records themselves say, et cetera, et cetera.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In their life changed, where is their evidence that harm occurred other than from what they're telling you? And in addition to all of those records that you're reviewing, in addition to their self-report, then you're also going to give some of these tests, like the MMPI. So the code types are really that strength of the MMPI too. It gives you really nuanced information about a person's personality. Now, again, you're not going to use the MMPI to or any other test by itself to diagnose someone or decide that the person is telling the truth, not telling the truth. It is just another piece of data. And when it's working the way it's supposed to, it lines up really nicely with all of the other data you're getting, including what you've observed from the person during your interview with them, the information they're giving you, or inconsistencies with the information they're giving.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When I'm considering a diagnosis, you're integrating multiple different sources of information. You're integrating an examine self-report. You are adding collateral data. Usually I wasn't able to obtain collateral interviews in this case. And that was the decision of the court. said no collateral interviews, but typically that would be something that you would add. You're looking at records ideally from birth up until the date that the alleged injury occurred. And I'm speaking now specifically to a personal injury evaluation or something where somebody is claiming that they were harmed psychologically. But you want as many records as possible to show how a person functioned before that event occurred and how they functioned after. And you want it to show financial functioning, physical functioning, academic functioning. Basically, where is there evidence that some”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I love that you do I love that you get it because I just to me it's such a it's almost unbelievable that humans created it but I think that goes back to that empirical key method of creating something that enabled it to be as robust as it is and something that is very difficult to beat if not impossible But the code types really so It depends on In any forensic case, what really matters is the legal psycho legal question. So what is the legal question and then what is the psychologist's responsibility in assisting with whatever question they're being asked? And there's some questions we can't answer, some that we can. You don't always need to provide a diagnosis when you're asked to provide a report. It depends on the jurisdiction. It depends on the statute. Some jurisdictions actually require a diagnosis. In this case, I was asked to provide a diagnosis.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Bury it You know, I record my couple sessions, and one of the primary purposes of that is so that If they start to get nasty with each other in the session, I can stop it and I can say, what was that? And most of the time, what you're describing is so useful because we don't sarace. We have no idea that we just came off as critical. We think we're being completely reasonable and thoughtful. You know, whenever somebody's sort of retelling an argument they got and they said, and then, you know, I was just caring and just asked, I mean, why is there a reason you did, you know, something like that if they can actually see themselves, they realize, no, their jaw was clenched, their voice was raised, they actually called a name. Sometimes they're shocked.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A mental health issue comes to be. I certainly think that in most cases, and here's just me speaking personally again, I think in my own work, in most cases, what I see is that somebody may have some sort of predisposition, then they go through certain life events and learn patterns of behavior that may serve them well as a child in a dysfunctional situation, but end up being very problematic later on. Or they just have enough hardship that gene, whatever it was, lying dormant, that little borderline personality disorder gene expresses itself. And you'll see that with things like schizophrenia, depression, anxiety disorders, there tend to be certain ages where you'll just see that expression happen.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Is a tough question. So, there's been a ton of change in the way we've thought about the etiology of these personality disorders specific to borderline personality disorder. I think in general the view is that most people believe that it was associated with neglect or trauma in childhood while there is a correlation there, there's a correlation between that and many mental health issues, not just borderline personality disorder. We also there is evidence to support a genetic basis for this personality disorder. And there are people who have borderline personality disorders that report no childhood trauma or difficulty. And I have seen, you know, sometimes things just happen. So I think it's a mix. I think we need to think of it as biopsychosocial, which is generally the answer to most things when you're talking about how.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Different than when you think about it, there are nine different symptoms, and you only need five to meet criteria. So depending on which symptoms you have, you might be far more calculated, conniving, manipulative, or you may just be more of the impulsive kind of messy, emotionally erratic type. And so there's some new research also coming out that's even suggested that among women, those that score higher in some of these more calculated traits of the disorder may actually be, it may be a certain presentation of female psychopathy.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. And there has been some research to suggest that borderline personality disorder has different types as well And I think this is really important because in my own work, I have encountered many people with borderline personality disorder in my own life, right? And there are different types, right? I'm thinking specifically of a girl I really love who I've worked with for years who is so self-aware about this and endearing. And she owns her shit. I can forgive almost anything if somebody just owns their shit. She might lose her temper. She might lash out. She can be erratic, but she will come back and apologize, own it, and accept full responsibility. And not only that, but identify it and make changes. She doesn't want to be harmful. I adore that about her. I think it's an admirable quality. More of us could have. That's very.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This histrionic disorder typically is known for the dramatics and people who are observing or interacting with somebody with this disorder may even feel themselves almost kind of wanting to turn away. There's a sense of play acting as the person is speaking or engaging with you. Something just feels a little bit disingenuous. And a lot of attention seeking, similar to borderline personality disorder, you might see with histrionic personality disorder, attempts to manipulate. However, the motivation with histrionic personality disorder is that attention. Whereas with borderline personality disorder, the underlying motivation for almost everything is to avoid abandonment. So you'll see frantic attempts to avoid abandonment, frantic attempts to keep people close. And those frantic attempts can be really harmful to the person and to others.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“More of a spectrum Personality dysfunction, then you list the traits that are there. And I think that'll be more accurate, especially there's so much overlap between these personality disorders right now, especially cluster B. It is not uncommon for people to have two or three personality disorders to meet criteria for two or three at the same time. Speaking about borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder can best be thought of as a disorder of instability and impulsiveness, emotional instability, instability in a person's self-identity, sense of self, instability in a person's relationships, and then underlying all of this as an intense fear of abandonment. Histrionic personality disorder is more of a disorder of emotionality, dramatics, and attention seeking.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, as we have it right now with the current personality disorder categories, histrionic personality disorder is probably the most controversial. Some people believe that it is narcissistic personality disorder light. So sort of less obvious, less malicious version of narcissistic personality disorder. And I think that will probably get sussed out if we do move to a more spectrum-based approach, because then you would be describing sort of a personality disorder, and then you would add the traits to it. So, you know, with issues and interpersonal functioning and et cetera. So you could be a little bit more specific rather than having to just put somebody in a category.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It seems to be a stable trait part of their personality. It's in their inner personal relationships. It's in how they handle their own life, their own functioning, their mood, and it's not just situation-based. It seems to be all areas. I don't love the title histrionic personality disorder. I think it's history, it's pretty controversial and there's some misogyny in it. But that all being said, as a servant to the court and somebody who is there to just provide the science as it exists today, my job is to relay, and in this specific case I was ordered to provide my diagnostic impressions a diagnosis. And I don't get to decide which diagnosis, whether I like a certain diagnosis or not. Ultimately, if the criteria are met that diagnosis is given.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sure. Well, so right now the DSM 5, which is sort of the Bible for mental disorders, it's what we go to, our diagnostic manual. It classifies personality disorders according to clusters. And cluster B is one that involves the emotionally erratic interpersonally erratic emotional disorders. And those include histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, and antisocial personality disorder. Eventually, there's been some research on this and a lot of support for us eventually moving into a more spectrum type approach to considering personality disorders where you'd essentially be looking at dysfunction in different domains of somebody's functioning that has persisted over time. And again, the really important part is.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes and no. But I should also add to this that this test as much as I love it. And it is the most research and widely used personality assessment in the world. It is not in and of itself definitive. So you use it like you already have sort of a hypothesis and you use this for clarification. And it has a ton of value for showing somebody's response or their approach, how forthcoming they're being. But other than that, you really need to consider it as a piece of the puzzle. You had said stitch together earlier. And that was just one of those points you made that was perfect for describing this.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, it's easy. You just proctor it. You just make sure that somebody, there's no distraction, that they're well rested, they are sitting there and they can just take it in front of you.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“As you said, these code types, and these code types are additional patterns that have been detected that really can be That make a code type. And those peaks are higher scores on these personality traits and specific code types can give you a very nuanced picture of a person's general approach to life and their personal relationships, their personality.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right. Well, so you have these clinical scales as well. You have 10 clinical scales that look for different kind of primary clinical pathology issues. This test doesn't tell you anything good about yourself. At best, it just tells you that you're not responding in a way that is dishonest and that you are kind of not hugely problematic. But it's not looking for strength. So you have these 10 clinical scales that look for variations above the mean of the population in certain areas, anywhere from depressive symptoms, manic symptoms, physical complaints, anxiety, nervousness, aggression, social engagement, whole scope of human experience. And then there are much more nuanced scales from those, so little sub scales. And then the real power, though, of the MMPI2 is in.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That is driven for a specific outcome or gain. It's just fascinating and it's the most well-developed assessment we have for a person's approach to answering questions about themselves”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yep. So we've got validity scales and those are just fascinating and often one of the most useful parts of this test and forensic context because they show you how a person is approaching the test, how they're answering questions about themselves. So for instance, you can see if they are tired, you can see if they're kind of responding randomly. You can see if they are in an unsophisticated manner trying to make themselves look perfect, but not very nuanced. You can see if they may be deceiving themselves and truly believe that they are perfect, whereas others don't see it that way. You can see if they're exaggerating, you can see if they're exaggerating because they're truly, it's a cry for help. They are an extreme distress, but they feel as though they need to really punctuate it to get people to know. Or you can see if they're exaggerating in a way.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Difficult, and not only that, but you can imagine using that approach, you can then look for patterns for almost any type of response style for any type of personality trait, any type of mental illness. You just get a comparison group and then a group who's using that specific strategy or has that specific mental illness or has that personality trait and you just look for patterns.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Light fixture right there. One of the questions out of the thousand might be I like light fixtures that are bronze, true or false. And they looked for correlations in the way people would answer to these completely innocuous, just boring questions. So there was no real way that a test taker could foresee the point of answering.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, that's a great start. So it is a questionnaire, yet 567 yes, no questions. I'm going to tell you what's most beautiful about this test. So they used an empirical keying method to develop it. What that means is that they didn't have a bunch of psychologists get together and say, let's ask them, let's make sure that we identify people who have somatic complaints or physical complaints by asking them questions about like numbness in their hand, nothing like that. What they did instead was they threw, you know, like take a thousand questions at a group of people who they know at a certain mental illness and a group of people who didn't have that mental illness. And then they looked for patterns in what the people with a mental illness endorsed as yes and no of those random questions. So it would be, for instance, there's a bronze.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Personality assessment inventory or the MMPI too. You're probably referring to the MMPI too, which is when I talked a lot about.”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Always. The pressure is so high going in to testifying. I think that's where I feel the most pressure is preparing and literally the moment until I start having to answer. And then I don't even have the luxury of thinking about myself because it is so important that that answer be clarified and understandable to the court that that becomes my focus. And that's the godsend is that I can stop thinking about how scary it all is because I need to pay attention to explaining something”
2023-03-21 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #366 – Shannon Curry: Johnny Depp & Amber Heard Trial, Marriage, Dating & Love · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source