YouSaid · the spoken record

Tanguy Crusson

lines on the record: 132
first: 2024-06-16
most recent: 2024-06-16
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn if you know how to, you don't need to know how to pronounce my name, just need to know how to write it. I'm not super active on social media, to be honest. I'm very much in the trenches building this product. So I don't do much in terms of networking. But if you are using this product, for example, and you have ideas for how we can improve it for you, or you'd like to share some stories about how that's helped you or how it's not helping you, I'd love to connect because I spend a large part of my days talking to users, responding to support tickets and stuff like that. So yeah.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And most people, when I ask them, hey, how long do you think you can be on the water? And they tell them something like 30 seconds, maybe a minute. How deep do you think can you go? Maybe five meters. At the end of a weekend, most people were able to hold their breath for two to three minutes and to go to 20 meters deep. So it's one of those things where it looks absolutely impressive and crazy and amazing. And in fact, we're naturally gifted to it, there's a lot of physiological changes that happen when we dive that make it possible, but I think it's fascinating a little we know about our bodies.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Look at the buildings that can be as little as 20, 30 meters and can go super higher. But 90 meters is pretty high. Last time I looked at a building like that, I was not aware of which one it was, but it's pretty high. So it's take one breath, go down, touch the bottom, bottom plate on the rope, and then come back up. One thing that may surprise people with this is that everyone is much more gifted at it than they think. So I used to give courses on the weekend.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Underwater breastfroke. I went further with the monophyme. The thing you see back there, but breaststroke was one meter away from the French record and ranking number four worldwide that year. The one I'm most proud of is I actually went to 300 feet underwater deep, came back in One Piece, and I really enjoyed the whole thing”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so yes, that's my claim to fame. I was ranked number four in basically the distance. You can swim in a swimming pool without fins, with 167 meters, which is 550 feet.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Things would happen. Well, that's exactly what I've seen, and that's helped me every time. I reread this quote whenever I'm in these moments of turmoil around me. Now, when I face those moments, I also remind myself of the other one, which I invented, but it's not, I don't think I'm the only one who has invented that one, which is remember that in 100 years, we'd all be dead and forgotten. So don't take yourself too seriously. You're not that important. You're probably not that important, as important as you think for the people that you are arguing with. And that's also the beauty, you know, things, which is it has an end. In the end, it probably doesn't matter, so might as well give it your best shot. Many generations ago we're talking about this point is close to Albert Celmuse thesis, right? If it doesn't make sense, might as well go for it.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've got two one for work and one for everything in life. The one for work is initially a quote from Obama. I can't remember the exact quote I'm going to paraphrase, but it's keep it about the work. So there's going to be moments in your career, in your way you don't feel valued and you wonder, like, am I doing the right thing? Am I being recognized? Am I valued? Am I at the right place? And whenever that happens, a lot of parasitic thoughts may come in. You may face imposter syndrome and stuff like that happens to me super regularly. And whenever that happens, what I do is I remind myself It about the work because as long as you make it about the work. Always work to be done, and there's always a path that emerges from that work. It's a bit of the same of this, they've got this thing in yoga where once you're committed.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, there's spots and crafts that are difficult to learn. This one you can get comfortable in 18 months to two years, which is really, really short things I've done before”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it's got nothing with tech, nothing to do with tech. I'm kite surfing a lot at the moment and I came across hydrophiles, which is basically these things where there's like an airplane plane underneath you on a mast which is connected to a board. You're on the board with your kites and you basically just fly over the water. And that invention is just brilliant. It's relatively easy to learn. can spend basically parts of my weekend flying over water in as much as a breeze of wind because it's absolutely zero friction between the board and the water so that's technically speaking i think it's genius the way they created that inspiring themselves from airplanes”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so they might be able to talk about, I did this, I did that, I did that. So when I talk through, who was your boss? My boss was. So when I ask this person, what do you think they're going to say? Actually, I was only a part of it or... Coming out, which often is very hard to get to for me in interview questions. And I've seen it happen. I found it very funny to do now because people get really uneasy for a second and then you get to something real.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so I struggled a lot with interviewing and I've read all the standard interview questions there is out there and I've heard them in your podcast as well. There is one that came from this book that's Code Farquar also told me was working really well for him is when people describe an experience you ask them the name of the person that they worked with back then and you ask them. So when I call this person after our call What do you think they're going to say about that? And apparently this does something, and I've seen it happen, where people are unable to project and invent on the spot something from the lens of another person talking about them.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Might be translated, I hope it is. It's pretty thick though, and it's very technical. So I've read the principles bit and I got lost in all the technical aspects of growing fruit, to be honest.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The last one is a book that I'm not sure has been translated from French. It's called Vive Avec Later to Live with the Earth. And it's about how we could build a different agricultural system to the one that we have today that might have better ways to feed us into the future when that doesn't require large monoculture of vegetables that might not be as sustainable. They managed to create really, really efficient structure on very small passes of land with a lot of species working together to control and not need the use of any pesticides and stuff like that. They've been always surrounded by teams of researchers from the InRIA. It's one of the French research centers have got really amazing results, but I don't think many know that this stuff exists and that it could actually be used out there. But a shame.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, the first one was a book that was recommended to me by Scott Farquis, founder of Atlassian, co-founder, who, a method for hiring, is basically a book about how to do the thing that I for a while was really bad at, which is try to interview to understand who's going to be a good person, not a good person to join your team. Second one, so that's one book about work. Two other books that are not about work highly recommend reading Hakim's ODC. It's the story of a Syrian refugee moving out of Syria trying to move into Europe. We hear a lot of these stats and numbers about people trying to cross the METSI are basically become refugees in other countries. And it's very easy to look at it complacently up until you meet a personal story. And this personal story of Akeem that was told very beautifully by this illustrator is well worth a read on that front.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But yeah, I would just go not set up for status quo because you cannot be the only sane person in a room. At some point, you will go insane. The environment will permit on you. You are not this entity that is absolutely permeable to everything that happens around you. Everything around you will affect you and will change you as a person. I really believe that. And so you need to surround yourself with people and environments that can help bring out the best in you. Otherwise, you can turn bad. And I myself have been cynical in the past working in environments that were cynical. And I then decided it's not me. I do not want it to be me. It was me back then. I do not want it to be me. So yeah, that's my only advice, which is have the courage to ask yourselves those questions because otherwise you can, it might change you in ways you don't want to.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, this one is a, I'm not sure how to answer that really because I've worked with, consulted, work for close to 50 companies. Atlassian is the first company I joined where I was at home from day one, challenged in the right way, but fuck. I can really choose my battles and go after them and things are hard, but it's okay. I joined Lassian.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Otherwise, I've been there before where it's possible to become cynical by the weight of the things that are not possible and ending up doubting your own ability to do stuff, really. So it's a bit of a balance of push for the right things, but also watch after yourself. And if the environment is not right, it's okay to change.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, as I mentioned, I worked at Atlassian now for the past 10 years. Before that, I used to work in banks in heavily regulated industries, in a whole bunch of different areas where that kind of stuff was not okay. And I could have tried to push, it would have not gone well at all. So I think there is, I'm deeply convinced by the fact that we don't need so much top-down leadership. What we need is a lot of autonomous leaders regardless of their position within the ARC, able to push for change, fighting for the right things. But you need to do that in an environment that's safe for you to do so. And if it's not, I think it's okay to consider alternatives. So in other words, don't feel like you're trapped. You only have one work life. Do it in places where you really believe you can do amazing work and surround it by people that you're excited to work with.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it's a bit, I would try to balance the point I just gave, which is it's hard. So someone has to try and always feel like you can push. I'd like to balance that a bit with be careful for yourself as well and make sure that you're doing this in an environment that's ready to welcome it.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, basically it's pretty much what we talked about earlier with. Lots of processes that were not changed yet because we're at the very beginning of point A. And people still want us to chime in on the things that were important for their part of the organization where we would play a part later if we become successful. So none of that stuff was just solved once and for all. It was just a constant process to play with that. But I think we managed to get out of these things pretty gracefully in the end. I think we gained some level of admiration for some teams from that and some found it a bit it's always interesting to see someone breaking the rules and getting away with it and I think it inspired some of the other founders to try and do that which was which was pretty cool to see. It's actually something I'd love to see more hearing back from the customers I've been talking to about this in their company. A lot of them feel suffocated by the current”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“With the rest of the Adlasium design standards. Our customers have expectations from us on that front. Your stuff is functional, but it's way too early. And so we went and fixed it, took us two, three months, and then we were okay to go. But, you know, because we had point A, Because we had this expectation set that it would take a while to get there. And because we were able to show progress every week, we basically didn't really feel that moment where we don't know what to do with this because it's too early.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Us going somewhere, and I think initially they judge not the outcome. They judge the team a lot more than the outcome. So there's all this talk of founder market fit. And I think really that's what you need to be teasing out, which is, is it the right team going after the right problems? And then if they can answer yes in ways that you haven't thought about asking, consistently week over week, it's enough. And I think that's where we were up until the stage where we were able to give something to customers. First Lighthouse user was five months in, so it didn't even matter whether it looked good or not because people could see, okay, that's what, oh, there's something there, right? So I'm not sure if there's one precise moment where it happened. However, there was this one moment where we were like, okay, that's it. We're ready to go GA. And one of the founders, Mike went, no, you're not, that thing is ugly. I do not want to look at it. It needs to, you know, level it up.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Honestly, we had something doc footing within two months in the hands of the first lighthouse user within five months. We iterated on the alpha for maybe six months We then entered a beta that lasted close to a year. So, I think at every step of the way, people could see.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So basically it ended up, it helped us get out of this phase where we don't have anything to show for yet because what we're showing is based on the learnings we're trying to get and we're trying to do that with. Here's some numbers, here's some demos, here's some user snippets and doing that every week because people can consume bite-sized contents every week. They just struggle with the stuff where you come in three, four months later and go, this is what we have to show for.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Stuff. So I was publishing that there and then sending that everywhere on Slack. Those kinds of things are what give people a sense of velocity and speed. And no one wants to fuck with a high speed train. You don't get in front of it. That doesn't help. And you're going to look bad by doing that. So basically that ended up buying us the time that we needed to get to out of this, I don't know how you called it ugly baby phase.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Through this thing every week when we were at the stage where we were trying to get the first version out to customers, it was a weekly demo of the product and everything that we built. Show the momentum as much as possible. There is saving features for one week to the next just to when I knew we were going to be on vacation, for example, just to have something to show this train that keeps moving, it keeps moving, you don't want to get in front of it. But then what I needed to do is to balance that out with all the customer side of things. So when we started to put it in front of customers, then it was snippets from customer conversations. No one is going to read a research report that takes 30 minutes to read. Everyone is happy to watch a three-minute snippet with four customers talking about something. So I was using that a lot every week by posting those out there and then sharing them widely on Slide to go, this is what we learned. This is what this customer is facing in terms of problem with Jura. This is how we're solving it. This is them talking about it, that kind of...”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So basically, internal comms is everything there. And the way I saw my job as a large part is being very clear on where we were, on what we were learning, on how fast we were learning, how fast we were moving, being super honest every step of the way, not try to make shit up and try to make it to bigger than it is, more successful than it is. On the contrary, be very careful about what we're testing, where we're testing it. Doing that with data, doing that with personal customer stories. Because we all can relate to the heart and to the mind. And so that's what I always try to weave into comms that I then send weekly. So we've got this product internally called Atlas, which have a project on Atlas people can subscribe to this project. And then weekly you send a tweet-sized update about your project. I was using that as a platform to communicate internally about this product. And they were actually hundreds of people who ended up subscribing.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You know by name, you know their context, you know their problems, you can empathize with it. This empathy makes you want to act to change your product, to solve their problem, and you get really huge pride coming back out of it. And it can seem counterintuitive in a company like Atlasian, 300,000 customers, right? We should build for them where you can't. We're limited in our ability to make changes that will work for the vast majority. So matters won't embrace that, embrace that we are indeed biased, that we are indeed reacting based on feelings like wanting to help or not wanting to help or reacting strongly to what you've seen, but we are embracing that to try and build the best product possible. And I've actually seen that the outcome is so far on this product, it's worked.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so, what we do with that is we recruit 10 people and we put these people in front of the whole team, not just the PMs, PM, designer, engineering. We met meet on Zoom, we chat, we work with the same ones over months to build the product. They're with us on Slack. We have regular things. What we've seen, what I've seen for going fast is that the engineers would go into a planning meeting and the PM would say, so we should work on X. And the engineer would go, wait a minute, we've had a talk with this customer and they struggled with this, so I think we should work on that instead and fix that part of the experience and so on and so forth. So all of a sudden, you're not talking about a product manager, you're talking about a product team with product engineers. So there was this thing at Atlasian where we called. Some engineers were more like system engineers, some were more product engineers. In my opinion, everyone can be a product engineer. They just need to be exposed to the right user context and the right user context, what is it? It's 10 customers.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not enough. What makes people want to change and actually give them a trigger to change? I've seen is a lot more empathizing with individual people's experience. If I know someone that's impacted by climate change, it's going to make me relate a lot more strongly to the concept of climate change and want to change myself. So sorry for the parallel here. No, that's such a good.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Lighthouse users, and there's two sides to it. We just talked about the stakeholder facing side. The one I love is the team facing side of this, which is, I've seen a lot of teams Atlas and other companies as the products grow, you tend to leverage a lot more user research, formal user research, or CSAT surveys. And the way I call it, it's hiding behind research and not being close enough to the ground with customers. And what I want to do in the teams I work with is to create a direct feedback loop with customers, but not like someone gives you feedback and you do it. We talk to those customers. We build stuff for them. And so there's something I've seen which is climate change. It's a thing. Everyone knows it's a thing. We all read reports about it. We all like every time we read an IPCC report, we like, shit. Do we change anything?”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It fell from the user's perspective. It's different when we go from 10 to 100, from 100 to 1,000, but for each of those, there's kind of a playbook for how you go from one to the other. That helped us because we could then claim the space to do the right thing and we were not asked to hit, for example, a monthly active users number or number of customer's number or percentage of users who use this number because it's very qualitative still when we're at that stage.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then we get to a stage where we're like, you know what? It's good. It solves people's problems, but it's not self-service. We just need to explain stuff. We need to work with people on Slack. We need to work with them and sort of support tickets or do a lot of Zoom calls to explain stuff. Now we need to get from 100 to 1,000. And by getting there, we basically need to solve all of that. And after that, we graduate. So basically by detailing that and explaining all the success criteria in between, it helps to define success. in that in the make phase we've got 10 100 1000 and then people can understand exactly where we're at there and the types of questions we're trying to answer in the 10 we're answering every question with a user snippet of a video call with them either talking about their problem and solution but showing the product and how they solve with it that's how we wanted our stakeholders to view it which is it's very qualitative but how”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so there are stages to it. The first stages we work with 10. And we prove that the problems that they had are the things that we solved. And where we spend most of the time for the first 10 lighthouse users is to explain why they aren't the lighthouse users. Everything that explains why we believe they are a proxy for every customer that will serve afterwards. We then have this stage from 10 to 100 where we so we recruit more customers, but we're still not in the fully self-service, don't need a lot of onboarding stuff. We're still testing out the value, but we're testing the different variations in the scenarios that people face to make sure that the core solution that we've got can catalyze for those. So there's a lot of different options and different security needs or different, there's a lot of subtleties that you catch between 10 and 100.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, hurt your numbers is now the interesting one. So, how do you frame success and how do you define metrics? Your goal is to basically work with a small number of customers for a super long time. So that's where what I ended up defining for this is based on a term that was used at last year, but I kind of tried to formalize it into something could refer, something that everyone could refer to, which is the Lighthouse Users Program. And so the principle for it is it's a program, so it's an official thing. We have hundreds of thousands of customers that are Lassian, but we will only build the experience for a small number of them.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I know it's very common sense, but that's basically what we decided to do instead of the Atlasian way, which was more, hey, we measure our success based on, for example, at that time, I think it was still before all those projects, monthly active users. If that was a measure of success, we would have been pushed very quickly to go and expose it to as many people as we could. We didn't want to do that because they would have a bad experience, would have been very hard to claim them back afterwards. So someone in refuge put the name on safety funnel. So the safety funnel is amazing. People don't understand that you basically put a hard stop and you limit the number of people who have bad experiences. And you do that for a while up until you can prove it's amazing and then you invite more people. So we did another that. So we basically created that pocket away from Jira to reimagine what Jira could be for product managers. And we only exposed that to a very small number of customers at first. So don't find”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So they have this thing where the typical growth funnel goes from acquisition all the way to revenue and there's a whole bunch of different stages in between. Your goal is to maximize the number of people who go through this funnel successfully. And I was trying to explain to people what we were trying to do with juratic discovery and I was struggling to put a name on it. It was we're going to work with a few small number of customers up until it's right for them and then we're going to expose it to progressively more people.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It depends who you're doing it for and the programs that they've got. Don't feel limited by your platform to answer the core things that are necessary for your product to work, basically. So if the platform is good enough for us, if it was the UX was good enough for the product managers, we would not have done that. And we would have a hard time justifying it. Because it was not, we basically gave ourselves the stem to be able to do it. The second one was something I read from, so Steelen don't fuck existing customers, something I read from a slide from Reforge that talk about the safety funnel.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's owned by IT, yada yada. And so we said that's fine, we're going to experiment with an experience that's going to be detached from Jira, still on the same platform. And that's what we did, basically. So this concept of incubate by working on something on the side iterate until you've got it right and then integrate it back into the main product is something I would definitely do again. We're currently in the middle of the integration phase for GRPODA discovery.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which is we're going to be updating JIRA, but we're going to kind of extract ourselves from a lot of the core components of the core base to rebuild the UX that would work for the audience for going after. Our audience is product managers. They have no patients, no patience for spinners. Things need to be visual. They need to be able to quickly move things around to visualize the potential options they've got on their roadmaps and stuff like that. It needs to be snappy. It needs to get out of the way, but also something that they can feel proud to present to the stakeholders to have discussions around that. It can't be bogged down into the details. It can't go into very, very deep trees. It needs to be a space where you feel like you can breathe and have creative conversations. And thereas UI was not exactly known for that. And in fact, most of the product managers I talked to were like, I don't want to do this in Jira. It's too strict. There's too many words.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's possible to do. In fact, I came across an article from Ben Weiss. No, sorry, Noah Wase from, it's from many years ago now, where he was basically talking about innovating in a successful mature product and talked about three stages of incubate, iterate, integrate. And as part of that, he gave the examples of Instagram, Twitter, and Foursquare, where basically he was explaining at the beginning, for example, Instagram was feed that was chronological. And then the team started to experiment with a popular tab that was on the side that was not integrated into the core of the product that everyone uses. They iterated on that for a while that became the Explore tab. And then the Explorer tab became the main feed. The feed is not chronological anymore. It's based on your interests. And that part really resonated with me, whereas that, you know what? We're going to try to apply that to Jira.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so the one that I'm most passionate about is how we work with customers is very different in a super early stage bet versus to what you do in a very established product like Jira. So the first part is how can we innovate in a way that doesn't fuck up existing customers Jiram, 120,000 customers, Atlasian, 300,000 customers. We can't just go in there, start experimenting, breaking a whole bunch of shit that millions of people experience and go, what are you doing at Lassian? So what we needed is to create this area where we could experiment. That's away from Jira, why being inside Jira. That part was a bit tough.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And you've seen you've interviewed Megan on the show before and I listened again to the way she pitched point A and yes, that's exactly what came out of what she was saying, which is we gave the space for those teams to be able to do this with a lot of autonomy. And that was the outcome of all that work, basically, which is the program was then set up so new teams could do it and fitting within the mothership, basically.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so there was a lot of the early success that we had in being able to move super fast that came from being so far that people just did not engage to stop us. And that's why we were initially the group with the fastest speed, then the other teams were able to, like, then it was possible to institutionalize those things into point A to then make it possible to do it from within Atlasien. But at first, we just needed to blaze our way through. So that's what we did.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“At the time, a lot of other point A founders were struggling with the fact that they were operating from the mothership in Sydney because they're still with everyone else. And so like you're talking about doing all this stuff, yeah, but remember that we've got this, we've got this OKR thing, we've got this vision for GR that we're building, like you need to participate in all this. And so I was in Europe going, fine, schedule it at your time. And teams were like”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, the point A emoji and Atlasian is a pirate flood. I was not the only one. There were quite a few of us working on new beds, basically operating like that. Each questioning different roles, the end goal was not to question the rules. The end goal was to get to the stuff that we needed to do, which is we just need to claim the space to work with users, to test prototypes up until it works, and progressively get to a product that's going to be enough to launch, right? So we never intended to break the rules, which is the things that we were going to choose the ones that we were going to work to support us in this mission and say no to the others. You mentioned Europe.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm trying to start this stuff. I don't want to move to the US or move back to Australia just for this right now So I heard contractors, lots of contractors when we started, not lots because we're not a big team, but contractors to build this stuff. And again, contractors, they don't fall into the same rules as the rest of engineering staff. So basically all the rules around you need to contribute to, for example, the engineering team could say for one day to the next, leadership could say, you need to invest 15% of your time in reliability. And for SS, we're not there yet. We don't even have a prototype out. Yeah, but that's the company rule. All right. Again, no engineering manager and contractors, boom, one of these rules are blight. So it was people who were looking at it from the outside were like, wow, you're sure you're okay with all this? And it felt super uncomfortable, but we had the support of leadership from it. It's just a tough transition for Iplasian from the we only invest in the big ones or acquisitions to let's invest in make new bets.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, they were able to make changes in areas that were not owned by them. They were able to do changes that do not respect any of our standards. They were able to hack their way around rebuilding services and whatnot. We are now not in the position where we need to do stuff like that. But at that time, I needed to take a position like that so we could actually go and move fast with basically the equivalent of being a startup inside last year. That's not comfortable to do stuff like that. And I would not recommend that in many environments Atlassian was very forgiving throughout the whole thing. It doesn't mean that I didn't grow great on that. That was not simple. One of them rules, for example, was one of the rules is at that time we didn't want to have a footprint in Europe back then for more engineering teams. It's different today, but back then it was like that. I was like, shit, I'm based in France.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I decided not to have an engineering leadup in the gym and to do it myself. So I was the product leader and the engineering leader. I was technical enough to be able to have these conversations, but mainly I was just working with amazing engineers who just could self-direct themselves.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One example, breaking rules without breaking trust where it was tricky. We have a lot of rules in a company like Atlasian on this is how it works in engineering. I mean, engineers are the biggest part of our workforce, right? That's where all the basically shit gets stomped because engineers work on it. And what I needed was to be able to hire the right team. Only principal levels, people who have a lot of internal credits so that they can commit to any team's repo, no questions asked. People who are not looking for the next promotion, but they want to make a splash. And when that's not possible, I wanted to be able to hire contractors to fill in the gaps and stuff like that. And I was like, a lot of the rules that I need to be able to break Is basically in engineering”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source