YouSaid · the spoken record

Tanguy Crusson

lines on the record: 132
first: 2024-06-16
most recent: 2024-06-16
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Yeah, it's like trust I've built with the founders, with even business leaders, with succeeding on stuff or failing and explaining why and trying to do better next time. And all that stuff gave me, like you said, capital. I've got these chips and I decided on this bet. You know what? I'm going to go all in. So I said, if I works, it works. If it doesn't work, I'm probably out of here, but I'm going to go on in. So if I see something that's not going to work, I'm going to say it. We're not going to do it. And so I knew I was going to put myself in tough conversations because people are here to protect things that need to be protected. They just don't make sense for the stuff I was working on.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So failure is the most likely outcome, is the one thing I would stand behind in everything because I've seen before what happens when we get too complacent with it's going to work lessons from the previous things I was talking about. So this one really key. Second one, this one is much harder, which is if you're starting something like this, your teams will need to break a lot of rules. Are established, but they need to be able to do that without breaking the trust. Everyone in the organization. The rules were created to support the business at the stage where it was successful. And it just so happens that they might not work for new bets. So you need, like, the trick here is for me has been to, the way I pictured it is I've got a bunch of chips. Since I joined a classian, I've been accumulating chips. And those chips are like...”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's not the full hundred of them. Basically, the first, and I'm saying 100, it's over a few different quarters of teams coming in and coaching.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it might be let's kill this thing, which happened to a number of bets that we did. Or it might be let's roll this thing into something else. For example, on your whiteboard product, which I say product whiteboard's feature out of Confluence, initially came out of point A and was eventually rolled into Confluence instead because PortfolioFit made more sense there.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So we basically write the six pages that looks at all the different aspects, all the questions that we're going to answer. And then we are in a meeting with point A stakeholders and the founders of Atlasien. And everyone reads that page for about 15 minutes and then question, answers, comments, and all of that. By the end of this meeting, we know whether we are clear to go to the next stage. We've got booty back one time when we were like, hey, we're ready to go into anyway from alpha to beta ass out of make. And they're like, no, you're not. And I was like, no, we're not. And so we stayed and we basically got more time than what we was initially allocated to us. But basically the founders and the leadership of point A as well as heads from the different lines of businesses at AtlasM were participating in those.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“All those basic teams that felt like they had to chime in. No, we're in Explore. We don't have anything ready that's been validated. Let's not have opinions about how the architecture is done before we have validated that customers want something.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It turns into a real business from that point onwards. But everyone at Lacian knew these four stages, wonder, explore, make, impact. Whenever we were talking with teams, we were telling them, we're currently in Explore. And we started doing that with the full bet itself. Then we started doing that to talk about the different features that we were working on or problem areas we were going after, which means that now every time we go into conversation with other teams and we mention it's we're in wonder or we're in explore, they know what to expect. When we go to someone in the leadership team and we say we want to go from explore to make, they know they're going to ask for budget, right? Because they need developers now. So all that vocabulary and clear expectations set for every stage of the process really helped us to facilitate all the conversations that we had with everyone in the organization and really protecting us again from”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you get a bunch of customers raising a problem, can you get them to play back the solution would address that problem? And so in the case of geoproduct discovery, because we were not building, we didn't need any new technology. It was many new UX and new workflows. We basically validated a lot of that with Figma. With Figmas in dozens of Zooms. But it's basically coming back saying, here's how those companies are framing it. Here's their programs. Here's how this thing would be solving it for them. So that's part of Explore, which is validating that it's worth investing in in terms of solution. We don't only have a direct problem, we've got the right solutions, then make is about making it happen in stages, starting with an alpha, then a beta, and then going out there. And impact is that stuff is actually ready to go GA. And now let's see the impact it has on Atlasian's business and keep monitoring it from there.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So there's a part of that, but there's also really a need from like if we need to respect Atlasian's dollars here. And if we don't know whether this thing is going to work, I do not want to drag a team of 50 people into this. I want to know that this thing is worth the investment of a team of 50 people. So it's a bit of both, actually. Now, it's of course easier said than done. And so that's for, again, point A helped. We had four stages called Wanda, Explore, Make, and Impact, where in the first stage it was all about proving that there was a problem area we could go into, there was a market, we could answer very clearly, articulate why classing should move there. We could articulate why now that stuff that I struggled with before, and have enough data to validate all those claims. Explore was about exploring solutions, which doesn't mean build it and throw it out there and see what sticks. It's about”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so the thing that we're trying to do when starting new products is to basically emulate a startup in an environment that is not hungry. Like is not starving. And so you need to create scarcity. What I wanted with my team is to make sure that they feel the urgency, that thing needs to move. I also needed the rest of the company to go away so we could get the autonomy to test the things that we needed to know whether this thing is even going to work or not. We could not go into a planning session for the next six months to negotiate something with a platform service. So we can build a feature to then test with users. I was like, no, we're rebuilding this component and we're testing this with customers next week. It's not perfect. It's not perfect. And so that helped us a lot. But otherwise, always this tendency of the process that works for everything else is going to work for this. And we need to keep reminding them, hey, we might not exist in six months. Do you really care that?”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, what we try to do is remind everyone things are going to fail so that we could basically buy the opportunity to hack shit together that is not going to scale, that is not going to respect our design guidelines, that is not going to fit with the Jira target architecture. But we're going to test this with customers and see if the concepts make sense, if the prototypes make sense, whether they get value out of those before we tell you, hey, you know what? That thing is a thing. And by the way, now we're a proper business. We should build that thing into the platform.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Has a tendency to overinvest, not the company top down, parts of the company have the tendency to come and try to help. So for example, here we want to build this. Oh, if you want, we could change this service to be able to do XYZ for you. No, we are a bet, which is seven people. Let's not drag the rest of the company into it. The appetite that the company has right now is the seven people. We'll see what we can do with these seven people, was what I was telling everyone. The reason I was saying that is that otherwise, yes, you get the help, but the help always comes with condition and the condition is usually things slowed out.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, what was hard though? The first one was reminding everyone that failure is the most likely outcome. And I will die on that hill to explain to people when they want to start things internally. Frame it like that. Remind everyone there's a like 70% chance number completely put out. We are trying to launch a new product, enter new markets. Our goal is to get to a $100 million businesses. So there's not that many of them out there. We have tried and we have failed, and a few of them are at Lacian. And so remember that. And it's super important to remember that, to remember that, because otherwise the company...”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“With some research, I was alone back then, and then we were three. The first line of code was written three years before we launched officially generally available, which means that for three years we were in alpha doc footing alpha or beta, and able to do that with the full support of the company. So that's something which is like when I mentioned the long game, I mean it. It's something that's very hard to get in most companies out there. And still the thing that when people ask me about how to start incubators, think about it with when you're going to get your dollars back and forget about it for a while. What you need to see is how the teams are answering the right questions that they ask along the way and seeing whether you are still excited about the bets as they do that. So anyway, so we launched a year ago fast forward to today. We've got 8,000 customers, amazing CSAT, great traction. It's one of the fastest growing products in Atlasian history, which is”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The point a structure was basically, not all of it was formalized in point A. Remember, point A back then was created alongside the first bets that went through it and ours was one bet as part of that. So we kind of forged a path for all the ones that came afterwards. But basically it gave us the crags to go in and ask for help from everyone. And everyone knew it was important because everyone knew the company priorities and the new products were a top company priority. And so Atlassian playing the long game had decided that it was okay to invest in these bets and to reassess them every three to six months to understand whether we should put more chips in it. And so the psychological safety of everyone's job was safe coupled with access to all the resources from the company. That part was just invariable to the success of what JPD is today. So to give you a bit of context, Jeroboam Discovery started four years ago.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Things around product management before forming a view that, hey, maybe we should play there. And all those teams are waiting to talk to us because Atlasian is a big player in this market. And so there's always the opportunity of integrating, being bought, partnering, that kind of stuff. I was able to meet with analysts to say, hey, so what do you think about the product management market?”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“With GRPO discovery was actually made possible because of that. And because we're inside Atlasian. So we started with a lot of I could take time to focus on this stuff with nothing else to do. It was a full-time job because of this incubator. I was able to form a team easier because there was budget allocated. I was able to form a team that was not worried about losing their job because the program was made so that basically technically speaking you would borrow people from other departments. If that thing doesn't work out, they go back to your department. So there's no fear of losing your job, basically. We were able to tap into all the research that was done by our research and insights team internally. We were able to have the corporate development team working with us. I met with probably 20 companies that played in”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, cool. So let's start with the good stuff before we go back into therapy. Some of the good stuff here is Atlasian at that point had recognized we are innovating in our big successful products or by doing acquisitions, we have to correct that and start building new products ourselves as well. And so there was a huge push from the founders to go, hey, we need to restart that. Out of it came point A, which was an internal incubator program that was meant to fix that. And the way they framed it was that innovation is like a muscle unless you exercise it, it becomes weak. And what we have to do now is to work on it again. And so out of that came point A and Geopo Discovery was one of the, I think it was one of the hundred pitches that went through that innovation program. There were 100 pitches and Arabic came out three products that basically went through all the different stages of it. And so it started.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now that seems like a good one. The main one I'm getting also out of this is if you try to start new things, it's going to be coming from your drive and your passion. And that's what pushes stuff forward. So don't give up because I try really hard before getting to one that worked. So I guess that's probably a testament for it's possible.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, that was a huge learning from me. I wasted months on it, but like with every failure, learnings came out of it in a painful way. So product managers are often biased towards action, or at least that's my case. I want to go and do stuff and build stuff and try stuff with customers. And so being idle waiting for a confirmation is not a great spot to be, but sometimes you need to recognize when you're there and it's good to step back.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So we need a very strong trigger for Y now to go after it. And I did not do a good enough job at articulating this why now? Why do we have to do this now versus in a year's time, in two years' time? And the next team that came in afterwards did a much better job at that But for me, that was a great learning, which is why great work can get parked in Celavi. And yeah, that's just what happens, which is we, because we have so many opportunities and there's many companies out there that are probably faced with that, doesn't mean that we have to go after all of them. But it does make sense to explore them. And then decide when to pull the trigger. rationale for the sense of urgency needs to be there and it needs to be built into the business case.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Keep going until you feel like it's not worth pushing anymore. And I remember looking at this advice and going, wow, that was not helpful at all based on the situation that I was in, but basically at some point I basically gave up. What happens, though, and I understood that after because the company ended up going there just a year later, was that I misread the appetite and sense of urgency around that topic and the fact that at last year I'm being at Lassian, we invest in so many markets, we have many opportunities like this that sit on a shelf. Someone did the analysis, someone created a business case, Thing makes sense. There may not be a trigger for the why now.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“For months for months I was in this limbo of I think everyone's excited about this. Everyone wants this to happen It's not happening. And so I remember talking about my boss at the time going, What's going on? When do I stop Pushing because at some point I'm sure I'm going to start pissing people off. And he was like, well, Basically, when you lose the passion for it.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which is a. Remember I mentioned I was working on a business case for basically going bigger in IT operations. And so there was status page as part of it, but there was a lot of stuff that I wanted to be able to do inside Jira and a whole bunch of other products to basically go big in that area, IT operations, before Jira service management, which is the very successful product we've got around that. Before it was really entering that part of the market. Everyone was excited. It was before we had an incubator internally. And so I was trying to pitch it like, let's build a new product that's centered around that thing, its own Jira and it integrates with these tools that we discussed and we can put in SpatterSpeech there and that's actually how we could accelerate them as well and so on and so forth. Everyone was excited thought it made sense, lots of encouragement. I pitched it to every level of the organization from”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There's actually a big difference. Okay, there's a big difference, which is in one case what you try to do is so when you rebuild, you've got a successful business. You've got hundreds of thousands of customers, for example, and you're trying to rebuild the same thing or a different thing, but for the same customers that have got expectations about your current product. In the other one is you buy a company that's got some traction, not too much, so you can shut down the business, right? and then rebuild on your platform to reach your customer base. So it's not the same as trying to rebuild the plain mid-flight, it's delaying takeoff. Like it's like, yeah, we did a trial run, the plane landed. Okay, cool, switch to another plane, take off again.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To actually hire a team inside the company at the same time, I'm saying that because I don't want to do a big one. The next one I want to do is relatively small, find a company that has amazing product that you can bring in as a tuck-in, shut down the product, rebuild it on our platform. And so it's basically the equivalent of a Mac we hire. And because basically what we'll be buying is the acceleration of our roadmap. We could try and form a team to do what they did, but they've been successful. So they know what they're doing. We could probably get there one year faster. What does that mean for our revenue at the scale of Atlasian if we can enter a market one year earlier? It's probably going to pay the acquisition back on its own. My learnings from it were basically that it needs to be treated like hiring. And what I would like to do next time is more do”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One aspect that I'm going to talk about to then. Ask the question talk about, which is we bought a product, how does that product fit with the rest? And so we had different types of acquisitions that we did. One is we buy the company and we keep the product running and then we try to integrate it with our text type and then the other acquisition is we buy the company and then we kind of rebuild on our platform or we buy what there's huge synergy with our platform. And so we call that the Frankenstack otherwise, which is you get one tech stack here, one tech stack there and they can't quite talk to each other identities different integrating is different. And so it looks like a patchwork of products and that's not what our customers want from us. The next time I try personally, I would treat it like hiring or treating it like buying business only. So there would be a huge component, which is to both educate and tease out what it means.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it's the things that you used to be able to focus 90% of your time working on your product and all of a sudden all of that stuff may seem parasitical, but comes in and interrupts you all the time. And often the new joiners, they don't know that they basically have not only been hired, been acquired, they've been hired by the company. So they basically are joining a different company with different sets of rituals with a different culture. All of that is very different, basically. It's not going to be the same for every acquisition. Like I said, we had some acquisitions that worked great. Status page ended up being a huge success inside a classian. But when I was there, I basically worked through the difficult parts of it. Whereas like, it's not as simple as people may think. So what a warning, if you're planning to do acquisitions, like make sure you factor out of that in and think about the integration plans to compensate for these aspects. So you don't expect the business to”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Other teams without meaning to basically end up constantly interrupting so that the right processes are followed, so that the right things are done.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Nothing to do with the status page greasiness up until the acquisition. So that is the things that people told me when I started working on the integration, which is, hey, remember, I mean, you don't know yet, but integrations are mostly about people. They're not about technology as much or product vision or all of that stuff is the easy stuff. The hard part is the people. And I didn't quite understand at first, and then I really got it by the end of it. So because what we tell those companies is we can accelerate by buying, but in reality they are going to be faced with more internal processes around how they manage staff, performance reviews, this concept of engineering allocation, revenue forecasts, OKRs, long-term roadmaps, all that stuff comes in very new to them. So one part of the company top down says we bought you because you are successful, keep doing what you're doing, while make”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Depending on how the buying company is organized, you might land with silos from within your team. So the way Atlassian is organized is like many Atlassian companies. We've got a product organization. We've got an engineering organization. We've got a marketing organization, design organization, and they each roll up to a different leader, which may then roll up to the same person, but still by and large different organizations that are then assembled into squads and those quads operate together, but there are rituals that are part of the squad and there are rituals that lather up to where you are in terms of craft. So I do remember how daunting it was for the status page team when they joined to understand how to navigate that. If I want to hire a new designer, I'm not talking to the status CEO anymore. I need to talk to the head of design for this area, which has pretty much...”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So at Class Jane, we would look at the long game. And so I remember with status page when they first joined, we asked about the roadmaps and they were like, well, for the next three months, we're working on that. And for the following three months, we're thinking about potentially X or Y or Z. And so when we're like, okay, so what's the freer plan? They're like, what do you mean the free are blood? Like, I don't know, we'll survive, I guess, which is what startups do. And they were very penciled ideas about the future, but not to the extent of what a big company would expect. And so that's a really big culture shock. And what you end up with as well, and that's for companies who are looking to get acquired out there or buying other companies, before you had a startup and everyone was one team.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Are decisions that are made above your head, for example, portfolio fit, which should be part of your product, which is things that we should reuse from the platform that we've got. So there's a lot of decisions that you're able to make on the day-to-day basis that escape you, start to escape you. Big companies look much further out in the future.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“My learnings from it were on the acquisition side. So big company, we've got cash, we can buy a company, it will make us go faster. It's not always the case. In my case, there were quite a few things that didn't were not as easy as I would have thought. The first one is the culture shock of a startup that joins your company. So imagine you're a startup, you've got, I don't know, 20, 30 staff or something, and things are going well and you're in full control of your destiny. And then a company buys you to accelerate you. Then you stop owning all the decisions. So the CEO, maybe you become a product person. The person who was running GTM but was also doing a bunch of product stuff and was also doing a bunch of maybe engineering stuff all of a sudden is just working in marketing.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I should start to work on a business case for at least for basically IT2 slash operations. Now, big companies like Atlasian, we've got money. So, in every strategy that we've got, so we've got cash in the bank, we always look at should we build, should we buy, should we partner? Acquisitions can be really powerful to accelerate you. We've got quite a few success stories that can't remember how many we did, but Trello is one of the good examples of that, for example. So we decided to buy status page, and I was running the integration of the status quo business inside the Atlasian business.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's an amazing, like, I really loved diving deep into it for a few years. It's an amazing topic. And so anyway, there's so many fascinating things about this particular domain. But back then, so fan status page. And we invited a few of those companies to work with us for a week to go, hey, so we're at Lassian. We're basically the collaboration hub for everything that happens for development teams. What would an experience look like that puts everything together and where Jira could actually help you get the right information to the right team so they can act on it. And so we did a week of hackathon in San Francisco all together. So people from New Relic Status page and a few other companies. And out of that came really interesting concepts. And there was pretty something there. And I was like,”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Up salespeople are worried because their customers are calling them. So basically, it ends up being like a super stressful experience for everyone. And what StatusTudge was offering is something seemingly super simple, which is, well, what you should have is a status page. Well, for your services and you tell your customers about it and you can subscribe to your status page, over there you've got your services. And for those services, you can publish an incident whenever there is one. And your customers will be notified, which means that they're not going to get in touch with support because they know you're on it. It's going to build trust with them because basically you are honest in your, open in your communication with them. They are more likely to empathize with your position and be supportive as opposed to, you know, that stuff is down again. So there were just so many benefits of that.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now I discovered status page and found there offering super interesting in that Atlasian is not an operations like we don't really build like super deep operations tooling. What we focus on a lot is the collaborative aspects around everything. And when I was watching teams in incidents, I realized that there's a lot of chicken without a head syndrome, yeah, people running around like a bunch of headless chicken. She hits the fan and then what you see is teams just scrambling and everything gets mixed up all together in trying to fix the problem straight away. But at the same time, questioning what happened, arguing over why we got there, your boss is pinging you to go, hey, what's going on? I've been hearing that the app is down. We're losing money. Customers are emailing you and asking you that your support channels get blown.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So Jera is basically a software to build software. Could we have Jira for operations? So for operating this software. And so I did Market Research Fund a few companies that were doing super interesting things there, like PGD, Ops Gini, New Redic, Big Panda was a small startup doing lots of cool stuff there and status page.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And back then it was, I think it was back in 2016 or even before that 2015, everyone was moving to the cloud. Everyone was adopting DevOps. You build it, you run it. So basically developers would implement the software and then they would put it to production. And after they put it to production, they don't throw it over the wall to operations people. It's the same developers who operate the software in production. They go on call. Yada yada. So back then I did market research and to see whether Atlasian should play there, whether we had a crack at going after all the jobs around IT operations.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, this one is actually a success story, but became a success story after I was gone. That's more like a story of big companies can play the long run. And for you individually inside that process, it might look like a loss and you might feel like you're going around going nowhere. Yet the company stays on the opportunity for long enough to make it happen. So what we're going to talk about here are my own challenges working through it for something that ended up being very successful in the end. But I felt as a failure personally back then. So status page. At some point, so Jira is used by developers.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Test it, iterate on it with customers, and then whatever is good there, let's platformize it later. But that's where you see what makes us super powerful as a bigger company can also slow us down and make us focus on the wrong assumptions. So in that case, I think we thought we would win. Interestingly, I think we were convinced that we could actually, we had a great show at this market. And at the same time, we thought that we could tackle the rewrite and we could tackle the platformization. All these things were necessary. But all of them at the same time was probably a bit too much to bite. Now, I'm saying that, but today the editor you see in confluence started with what we did in Hib Chat back then. So I would say that in terms of code, purely in terms of code, 70% of what we wrote for HeapShat is probably still in the address.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The last one startups have the benefit of starving. We're a big company, we can throw a lot of resources at something that we're excited about. So this notion of we'll reveal heap chat was coupled with we'll rebuild heap chat and we'll do this on a new platform, which is microservices and everything that we build can be reused across all the other products. So the text box that you've got, it's an editor that can be open full screen and it's a confluence editor with everything that you can do there. It's built as a platform component which is amazing when the platform is there when you start building the product. Where it's really difficult is when you try to do the two at the same time. So I think that part, if I were to work on hip chat again and say I was leading that thing, that's the part I would go okay. We need to win the problem space first and if the platform is there, let's use it. If it's not there, we'll hack it.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And even when there is something that competitors do that is right, remember we're playing the long run and we don't always need to be fussed and shinier. We need to make sure that people have a problem. We solve this problem. They tell us we solve this problem for them. They have the lighted when we solve these problems for them. And so that's the stuff we should be obsessing about.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We always see in the Slack channels team sharing. Okay. What the user interviews that we did over the past three weeks. Let's watch them all together now and remember who we're building this for. So there's a lot of trying to anchor back on what we know and how basically building our own journey on it. And I think it's much richer for everyone to be involved”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But it's based on all this stuff that they've built in terms of research and understanding of their customer base and everything else. And so you're just seeing the manifestation of what they were thinking maybe a year ago based on what they're shipping now. But we got there. And now whenever I work at Tendu try and ignore competition other than watching key like every three months or so, seeing what came out, if there's anything we should be worried about, afraid of, stuff like that, but really just try to disconnect all the creative process and the research process from what competitors do because it just you can't compare the market is huge. There are hundreds of thousands of companies out there. Not everyone has the same needs. We serve a particular set of segments. We would do better learning from them to then expand to the others than what you're worth competition is doing.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've got two. I'm going to do them quickly. The first one is competitive myopia. Don't fall for it. At some point, the slack was really gaining ground and gaining around and capturing more of the mindshare and everyone on Twitter was always loving them. Even when they had outages, they were getting congratulated. I was like, this is fucking mad. But the love was so strong. And the way we tended to revert back is to our functional side of the brain going, okay, we just need this one more feature. We just need this one more feature. We just need this one more feature. And we ended up reacting to whatever the competitor was doing, which I think is really, really bad because that's when we lost basically what made Hip Chat successful so far, which is to serve some users really well. And instead, we ended up not fast following based on what a competitor was doing, which is super bad because your competitor, like if you think of what they do as an iceberg, like the top side, what comes out of the water is what they've shipped in terms of feature.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, most of those are like none of what I'm going to talk about today is revolutionary. A lot of it is just trying to apply asking the right question at the right time and trying to go by whatever means to answer it. Really?”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Wrote a single line of code, put an ad inside Jira newsletter going, hey, we've got this thing for product managers coming up. And then we had a website that before we had any line of code written that said, hey, product managers, your job is hard, we want to help, put your name here if you want to join us on the journey, that kind of thing. And that's what we saw. I think it was in two weeks. We got more than 3,000 signups to that waitlist. So we're like, okay, cool. Validation of demand. So we are talking to people who are interested and we can reach them. That's one example of the things that I tried later just to make sure that we validate the hypothesis that we've got much earlier on in the game, basically, and not once it's too late.”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“For example, when we started Europod Discovery, which is, so maybe I should introduce this for a second, it's a product for product managers, which is mainly used for prioritization and roadmapping. So people use Jira to plan and track work when it's committed. We wanted to create a space before that so people can debate priorities with everyone that should be involved in that prioritization process, whether it be the developers, designers, so people in the product team, or people outside of it, customer success, salespeople, support, leadership, and so on and so forth. So when we started that, we thought, okay, the product managers are already in Jira. You know what, we can reach them, right? So we'll create the tool and then we'll distribute it from Jira. We could have gone down the path of building that and then started to distribute it instead. We did things like before we”
2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source