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Tanguy Crusson

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2024-06-16
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2024-06-16
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  1. “Yeah, that's one of them. The other one is what took you here is not going to take you there. And so go back and try to explain why you are successful today. And then if you think you can use the same thing on the next thing, find ways to validate it. Find ways to test it. Don't just go and build on those assumptions. That's the main thing I got out of this ordeal, basically. Yeah, for the stuff I did afterwards.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “I'd actually phrase it more as both for going after the users at Lassian was going after the users in tech teams. Slack was going after the users in business teams. And in both cases, what happened was a bottom-up adoption. And the people on the other side, the business, were like, oh, prefer the developers, they prefer the hip chat. Like we did a lot of work in the strings I was working on. We're integrating with every developer tooling out there to make sure that every tool that they use goes into HipChat and from Hip Chat back to those tools and basically they can do a lot of work by seeing an activity stream in HeapChat. Business, not so excited by this. Emojis, a lot of other things that may at some point, I remember were thinking those things were trivial. No, they were not trivial. It was just like a different approach for using the tool by a different set of users that we did not talk enough to.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “Gamified onboarding, they focused a lot more on the look and feel. They try to make a pleasant, more than functional to use. There's a lot of stuff that we learned since then from what they did. We had missed that part. And the part that I took personally from that is that there's a lot of assumptions in what made us successful. It doesn't mean that it's going to work.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “The thing is, we didn't, in my opinion, do enough to validate that assumption early enough. And we did a lot of work, a lot of work, even on other things, even when faced with signals that this might not work. I do remember talking with a lot of customers who were like, well, we've got the ITs on HipChat, but the business prefers Slack. And then we started to see those businesses choosing Slack, which is the initially it was like the developers writings and they like it and then everyone starts to adopt. In that case, the Slack managed to create a very strong fan base in roles that were not tech and IT. It was the moment where the consumerization of apps, that trend was starting to get really high. Slack really wrote that and they focus everything in their experience to catch that.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “And we made the bet that we can apply this playbook to this market. Which is basically we can for people to use Jira, introduce HeapChat, and then people will go into HeapChat first in tech teams, and then it will”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “And we kind of have this assumption that it's going to keep working for us forever. The founders keep telling us what took us here won't take us there. That's kind of a thing we keep hearing over and over again, but it's very easy for teams when they see success of something to think that it's successful. Because of X, but X is not validated So that's why we go back to the topic we've got today, which is why is doing this in a successful company harder sometimes? Well, Assassin was successful with a playbook. And the playbook was we've got people in developers or tech or IT, they choose Atlasian apps. They love them. They start to recommend them to people in the business. And we start to see adoption, like bottom-up adoption across the company before people decide to standardize on Atlasian.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “Yeah, so the main one that I personally got from this, and it's back to the hypothesis that you talked about, which we have all these successful products we can expand into this one, which is, and I code it, but it's just myself, right? Don't eat your own bullshit, which is a mix of two things. We've got a company value that says open company, no bullshit. So we need to be able to talk about the things like they are. And we don't try to make things sound smarter than they are. We don't try to hide the truth. We go after the truth and we don't hide stuff from each other. We share with everyone. We are open by default. So that's one of the values. And we do a lot of dog footing. So eat your own dog food. So we do test our own software a lot. And I've noticed that sometimes there are things that we do where we tend to believe stuff because it's worked for us before.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “And we basically spent the next two, three months trying to make sure that the squads were created to fully own what they do there, to make sure that they are the ones talking to the customers, the other ones trying to come up with strategies, trying to come up with solutions and everything in that area. As long as it was people interacting with Atlasian products on other surfaces, everything was fair game. And so it was a lot of ups and downs and everything, but I think it took about two, three months before we got back to a new rhythm. And some people, like, when we talk about it, we're still scalded by it, basically.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “It lasted a few months. So I was not part of the decision making team for shutting down KipChat. I was one of the product managers on the team leading one of the three pillars. And I got brought in, I think it was a month or two before it was announced for the team to go hate only. By the way, just so you know, HitChat is no more. And now your mission is to find a new mission for the team after that.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “So, yeah, but there's a personal side to all the stories for us. There was a bit like the seven stages of grief after we shut down LuCat.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “And I mean, that really sucked for us, the team working on it. It's like, so first, no one tells you, but failure, like everyone tells you failure is great because you learn so many things, but failure to start with really sucks. None of us here were really happy about this on the team because we had spent years. On my part, it was three years, but the people who were before that on LibChat was longer than that, obsessing over it, obsessing over every detail, every customer conversation, every solution should rewrite, should we disso many intense conversations. And from one day to the next, it didn't matter anymore. We had worked on something and that's it. That's the end. I'm sure many startups have been through that before. For me, it was the first time it felt that personal. And the market the next day went, oh, you're stopping doing what you're doing. Awesome. You're standing, Modesty, your stock price.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “Yeah, it was actually noticed by the market in that as soon as we did that our stock price went up, which was, and I think it was $60 back then, and it went up to 70.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “So, anyway, this all happened, and in the end, we execute the market. We sold Kibchat and stride to Slack and basically executed the enterprise communications market.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “We are going to talk about that actually in a minute because that's one of that was our. What helped us, how we thought we would win, and it was how I think we lost.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “And there's good reasons for that. But basically, we did that, and out of it came out actually a new product called Stride, which was initially, couldn't put Hipchat next gen. The problem is that the product was great, but by the time we were done, Slack was just miser ahead of us. At that point, Microsoft launched Teams. And I don't know if you remember this moment where Slack put an ad in the, I think it was the New York Times, copying the Apple versus Microsoft thing from ages before going welcome to the game, welcome to the party, welcome new competitors and stuff like that. And Slack got pretty much destroyed by teams. We started coming because it was like Microsoft distribution advantage. Everyone in office is going to get it. They're giving it for free as part of Office. It was unbundled, I think, like a few months ago”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “But it was really a go big. Like lots of new developers, lots of new product managers, designers, like the full company behind this product kind of thing. We try to grow it very aggressively for a product that did not change that fast before it had reached good product market fit already, hundreds of thousands of users on a daily basis. And all of a sudden you get a lot of people who want to make changes to it to compete against this new threat. Platform is not so ready for so many people to work on it. And so we got to the inevitable, okay, it's too much tact, we can't do much about it. So we made the decision to rewrite it. So there's lots of literature around there around should you do rewrite, should you not do rewrite. You asked me now, I tell you never.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “That It's just normal. And heapjet was one of the first to move there. Slack came out of nowhere. Company actually initially was focused more on gaming. And they really took the market by storm. The growth numbers were dizzying when we're looking at them. And so at some point, the heap chat was left relatively... But with Slack, we now had to try to go bigger. So we started this thing called HipChat Go Big. That was the name of the project.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “Yeah, it's going to stop right there. Me and everyone else from the HitChat team, I can tell you. Okay, so yes, HipChat was an acquisition team of 20 people or so. It was slack before Slack was there. Great traction and lots of, it was a darling with startups. It was a new way to collaborate back then. There were a few of these smaller apps that were trying to do this thing. I remember actually joining at Lassian. And I came from before that I was working with financial services banks and stuff like that. And we were basically meeting to talk about stuff or going to someone's desk to talk about stuff. And I joined this company where my colleagues who sit on the same floor as me on the same table, we talk over the computer via chat. And I often felt weird at first looking over my shoulder to the person I'm currently talking to. And we're having an argument, but we're doing it over the text. Anyway, it might...”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Everything internally that can give room and breathing space for the bats to succeed internally. And for many years, we were not there. We started getting there more recently with the start of point A, which was our internal incubator program, which is one of my latest that was successful. The ones before didn't have that, and I really struggled from that. And I see many companies struggling with that exact aspect.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “Can look very different between early stage and established products. And so for a long time at Lassian, we were treating everything a little bit equally in that the metrics for success for the same, so for example things like mafia active users is the way that you for a long time we looked at you go is that product being successful or not and what if you're building a quote-unquote internal startup your monthly active user number should look very low for quite some time up until you know that your product is ready to serve the vast majority of the customers that you want to put it in front of so that they don't just look at it and go it's not ready for me they're going to try it and then they're gonna churn and it's gonna take forever to clean them back so that makes it pretty challenging to try and start new things unless we've got the the right metrics and processes”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “So remember we still have startups and enterprises, we have self-service and sales, we've got all these motions that are in place for our bigger products 100 million dollar business is a good start basically. In most companies out there, like $100 million business is a home run. For us, it's not like that. We're trying to build businesses that grow really big and keep growing big over time. Now, evaluating success.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “Be a little bit of therapy for me. Hopefully some people out there could go, okay, it's not just me having a hard time, like it can happen Companies like Atlasian too. So, yeah, let's talk about the challenges for that. You want to start a new thing. This thing is going to take time And you need to be able to have that time for the time it takes until you can prove whether there is a thing or not. The thing inside at LASCAN is that the bar for success is super high for a new bet. Like if you come in and you create a product and it's got 100 customers, it's going to be cute.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “And so it can feel really chaotic at first, but once you know how to nitigate it, it's actually pretty easy to try to go after something that you care about. And of course, we're a big company. So there's lots of ways we can get help. Corporate development, research, analysts that we can talk to whenever we want to explore something, thousands of customers that I just have to put something in the ad lesson community group and get hundreds of people applying to talk to me from one day to the next. So that's amazing. Any startup would want that.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “Products, and we've got also enterprises and very large enterprises using the same products, which means that there's a lot of areas where we could find a niche and go after it and expand progressively into all these areas. So there's a massive distribution potential that comes with that. When I worked on Geropoda Discovery, I didn't start with, okay, I'm going to need to start finding product managers and it's going to be hard to find them. No, they were already all using Jira. AtlasM is a company that has a relatively deep organization hierarchy, but relatively flat decision making. So it's more like imagine a network of key decision makers across the organization. It doesn't really matter the job title or whether you are a manager of people or not. The decisions are made by people who drive change. So there's lots of empowerment that comes from that. But also it's a mix of top-down, bottom-up happiness, I'd say.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Yeah, so on the opportunity side, so Atlasian 300,000 customers. We play in a whole bunch of different markets. Everything in the collaboration space. We have a lot of markets that we play in, which means that we've got a lot of competitors. But basically, when we look at the areas we could go in, there's an endless list of areas that we could go in, play and have a decent chance to win. Much harder to do if you're a startup. Like the breadth that we've got makes it easier to try and find areas where we could expand into. We're not starving like a smaller company, so we can actually afford to try to play somewhere, to do some bets, to have some of them fail, and some of them succeed. So that's amazing. Now, our customers, I said 300,000, the thing that I admire the most about the Adlassing business model is it's very broad. It's across small and medium-sized companies. We have startups using.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “Generally available a year ago. So my track record at LastCan has been 50-50 at best. So GRPOTA Discovery is actually my first, what I would call big success here. That one worked, but it was hard. And all the ones that I worked on before were really hard too. And that's the kind of stuff that really bothered me for a super long time. The good thing is working on a product for product managers. I got to talk to a lot of product managers across all sorts of industries in the past three to four years. And I realized that 50-50 is actually not that bad.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Yeah, so like you said, I've been in the product management team at LastM for roughly 10 years now. And I've been working mainly on bootstrapping new things. So it was initially I joined to start the cloud developer ecosystem so developers can build apps on top of the Atlasian platform and sell them on the Atlasian marketplace. I worked on heap chat and stride. HeapChat was well known. We were trying to win the enterprise communications market before Slack and Microsoft Teams came about. I did lead a business case to invest more in IT operations, got nowhere with it, and we acquired a status page, Ops Gini, and something I tried to do with didn't quite get off the ground. And more recently I started GRProduct Discovery, which was part of our internal incubator for two to three years, and came out of the incubator.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “Thank you very much for welcoming me here, Lenny. I'm super actually super proud to be on this podcast. I've been a huge fan. Whenever I give the chance to listen to you when I drive somewhere. So yeah”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “Very clear, but what we're testing doing that with data, doing that with personal customer stories. Give people a sense of velocity and speed. No one wants to fuck with a high speed train.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “He did the rest of the company to go away so we could get the autonomy to test the things that we needed, but it's not going to scale, that is not going to respect our design guidelines”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “Company has a tendency to overinvest. Startups have the benefit of starving. And so you need to create scarcity, like what we try to do is remind everyone, things are going to fail. Let's not drag the rest of the company into it.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “Been in the product management team at last hemp for roughly 10 years now. I worked on HipChat and Stride and more recently I started JRPOD Discovery.”

    2024-06-16 · Lenny's Podcast · Hard-won lessons building 0 to 1 inside Atlassian | Tanguy Crusson (Head of Jira Product Discovery) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source