Barry Ward
Dún Laoghaire · Fine Gael · Ireland
“I acknowledge all of the factors the Minister of State set out. I welcome them all and it is really important that we spread that message. The second part of the Minister of State's response is really important and that is the EU jobs part. I would not necessarily limit it just to the European Union.”
“Let us not abdicate responsibility for politically unpopular decisions, which are still the right decisions, made at European level with the involvement of Irish people.”
“There is little doubt about the positivity we associate with membership of the European Union. Some 82% of Irish people favour membership of the European Union, the highest rate of approval of any European state.”
“It is really important, not from the point of view of influence but from the point of view of presence, that there are Irish people around the table when decisions are being made so that the Irish perspective is understood and heard.”
“To look at it from a purely economic standpoint, the value of being part of the Single Market is enormous. In 1973, we imported €340 million more in goods than we exported. In recent times, we have had an export surplus. We have exported more than €53 billion more than we have imported.”
“As we hold the Presidency of the Council of the EU and are at the heart of Europe, leading the agenda and setting the tone in respect of our priorities during the Presidency, what is the Government doing to communicate to Irish people just how lucky we are to be part of the European Union?”
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“I appreciate that has been addressed and phased out by the CFP and that practice of throwing unwanted fish overboard, either because they are too small or the fisherman has exceeded the quota, and the introduction of the landing obligation are really positive steps both for the sustainability of fish stocks and ending the criminal and immoral waste of fish that were being dumped overboard. The CFP has brought a lot of benefits. It has positioned Europe in a big way as a global leader against illegal fishing through international law enforcement which I referred to earlier in relation to the South Atlantic. We have a particular obligation as we enter an increasing climate crisis to look at this as a Union, as a block of countries, to make sure it is not allowed to continue unchecked.”
“That aspect lacks regulation and the European Union, in broad terms, needs to address it as part of the global community to ensure it is not allowed to continue. In the context of quotas for stocks and so forth, there was a practice for a long time of fishermen overcatching fish, not necessarily deliberately, and ending up with more on board than they were entitled to catch. The solution to that was to dump the surplus stock overboard into the sea. These were dead fish that were perfectly good for consumption but because of a bureaucratic system it was not possible to land them without fines so fishermen understandably took the step of simply dumping them back in the sea. It is difficult in the modern context to imagine anything more wasteful than that.”
“I certainly would be interested in hearing anything the Minister of State has to say about his engagement with the Commission on how the Common Fisheries Policy can continue to be modified and updated to ensure it addresses the needs of fishermen in this jurisdiction, particularly Irish boats, and how we are going to protect our exclusive economic zone in that regard. In a global context, there is a massive problem with the regulation of industrial-scale fishing, particularly in the south Atlantic Ocean. Those waters are largely unprotected, particularly from huge Chinese fishing outfits. They go to that part of the world and massively overfish, stripping the ocean of its resources, which has a knock-on effect throughout the oceans of the world. It is not limited to that area.”
“It was only through a global effort, focused and led by the European Union through the Common Fisheries Policy, that we put in place measures that were essential for marine life and the preservation of those fish stocks, which was hugely important. The rules are negotiated and agreed between member states. They are not diktats placed on us. Rather, they are the subject of negotiations over successive generations. They are put in place in a way that allows an industry to exist that otherwise would not if those rules and supports were not there. That is worthy of acknowledgement. The support measures protect the marine environment from threats such as overfishing, climate change and the dumping of plastics into our oceans. Reform of the Common Fisheries Policy is ongoing. Obviously, that is necessary.”
“We can now say that Ireland’s fishing industry has developed and that seafood valued at €595 million was exported in 2024 to the European Union, the United Kingdom and more than 40 other countries across the world. The development of the industry under the European Union, therefore, has been enormous. While I am not saying there would not have been development anyway, what came with membership of the European bloc was both regulation that allowed for sustainability and investment from across the bloc through the Common Fisheries Policy. As we moved into the 1980s and the 1990s, the level of overfishing had a massive impact on the sustainability of fishing stocks and what was available for fishermen to catch to make their living.”
“Looking back at the Ireland of the late 1960s and early 1970s, before we joined what was then the European Economic Community, the level of investment at State level into fishing was negligible. There was simply not the support at State level for fishermen at that stage. It was only when we became part of the European Union that it changed. A Government report from 1970 shows that Irish exports of fish and fishery products were worth £2.7 million. Those products went to the UK and other European Union countries. Even accounting for inflation, that is a tiny level of export. Since becoming part of the European Union and the Common Fisheries Policy, that has changed.”
“It is a tough existence for the people involved and they deserve our support. You would think from listening to the debate and some of the contributors today, however, that this is all Europe’s fault and that Europe is responsible for the fact that fishing is a difficult lifestyle. While it has admittedly become more difficult in recent times, we should be acknowledging in this forum the benefits we and the fishing industry have had from being part of the European Union. The future of that industry lies in conservation measures put in place through European law, which will prevent overfishing and ensure the sustainability of fish stocks in order that there will be fish to fish into the future.”
“I come from the constituency of Dún Laoghaire, which is not necessarily known for huge fishing fleets. We do, however, have a fishing fleet in Dún Laoghaire Harbour, made up of a number of trawlers. There are also a number of smaller fishermen based in small harbours, such as Bullock and Coliemore Harbours, who make their livelihoods from fishing. It would also be remiss of me not to mention the Dalkey Lobster Festival in August, which will celebrate the shellfish tradition in particular along the south-east coast of Dublin and the fishermen who make their livings from it. I do not deny for a moment how difficult it is in this country to be a fisherman and to make a living from fishing, both for small-time fishing and for the large-scale trawlers, particularly on the west coast.”
“I applaud the Government for bringing forward this proposal and the Minister for his work on it. I look forward to the fruits that will be gathered by our academics, our economy and our people from being part of this important endeavour.”
“It is inexpensive in the scheme of things, even though it involves a huge amount of money, but the access it gives to our academics makes us part of an international community of which we always should always have been a part. My understanding is that once we become associate members of CERN, 25 of the 27 European Union member states, with the exception of Slovenia and Malta, will be either full members or associate members. Why would we not want to be part of that club? Why would we not want our academics, our researchers in particle physics and nuclear physics and our engineers to have the opportunity to join with their international colleagues in CERN and be part of what are some of the biggest and most important research projects in the world? It is a wonderful initiative.”
“Why would certain commentators stop at making glib remarks like the one I mentioned? Why not also throw out the idea of being opposed to our membership of CERN in case its research is used for military purposes? This is despite the fact the founding documents of CERN specifically preclude any involvement in producing material for military use. CERN has been a very strong proponent of non-proliferation since its inception. Part of the myopia I mentioned is wanting to score a point and throwing an idea out there to try to confuse matters and give people a reason this might not be a good idea. In fact, there is nothing bad in this proposal.”
“This is a fantastic and really important opportunity for Ireland. I applaud those who have pushed it, particularly our academics. They are not gold-plated academics, as described by another Deputy in an absolutely glib and throwaway remark. That remark is part of the myopia that sometimes goes along with initiatives that involve spending money. An investment of €1.9 million in the context of what we spend on research in this country is insignificant but it gives us access to a very significant resource. It gives our academics, who are at the coalface of genuinely practical research, an opportunity to join with their international colleagues in making real progress on the questions that affect us, energy being the obvious one. The potential for solutions in the area of energy generation is enormous.”
“I appreciate the Minister's perspective and his commitment to that. Beyond the banking sector, there are businesses that will sometimes try to dictate to their customers how they will effect payment for a service or a good. Some people will say not just that they want a card payment but that it must be through a particular method - PayPal or whatever it might be. Does the Minister perhaps see a role in regulatory terms for the Government to say to businesses that they may not do that and that they must facilitate payment by multiple means, or at least more than one means, in circumstances where there could be a concern that dictating that payment must be made through a particular means would seriously restrict some people's ability to access that good or service?”
“Is there any intention to impress upon the banks the need for them not to penalise businesses and individuals for choosing to use cash over electronic means of funds transfers?”
“I acknowledge that the Government takes on board this issue. Exactly as the Minister says, it is an inclusion issue, particularly for people who might not be tech savvy or might even have bad Internet coverage. The lack of access to cash can be a real stumbling block for them in accessing financial services and paying bills. I therefore appreciate that there is a governmental and legislative acknowledgment of the importance of cash. Some choose to use the alternative technological solutions, and that is great, but we must continue to make cash available to people. Small businesses tell me that sometimes dealing in cash with banks can increase their banking charges and costs.”
“As the Minister is aware, cash is increasingly something many people do not use. One will often hear people say they do not carry cash at all but rely on credit cards and banking apps to make the payments they need to make. While that is very progressive in lots of ways, will the Minister tell us what he is doing to ensure cash remains available for those who need and want to use it?”
“Can the Minister say anything about where those funds are or how he anticipates they will develop over the next 16 to 17 years?”
“It is very important to acknowledge the importance of these funds. The Minister mentioned demographic change. We know a crisis is coming in terms of the shift from those who are working to those who are retired and how the working population here will have to support those people. I want to put on record my support for and acknowledgement of the importance of these funds and the fact that they will be here in 16 or 17 years time to deal with whatever difficulties the economy might face at that point. I note the National Reserve Fund transferred to the Future Ireland Fund last year. The National Treasury Management Agency is responsible for the management of these funds. How are they managed? How close an eye is kept on them on a day-to-day basis by the Department?”
“The Future Ireland Fund is a very important planning instrument for the future of the economy, particularly in light of shocks we know are coming down the track. Will the Minister outline how the Future Ireland Fund and the Infrastructure, Climate and Nature Fund are being used and their status at this stage?”
“Has the time now come to invest in Dún Laoghaire Harbour, not just in terms of its physical infrastructure, but its future by recognising it as a world heritage site and seeking to have it added to the list of UNESCO world heritage sites?”
“Throughout the country, there are only three sites that have UNESCO world heritage status, namely, Brú na Bóinne, the Giant's Causeway and Sceilg Mhichíl. Dún Laoghaire Harbour is a site of particular significance, nationally and internationally in the context of the role that it has played in the history of this country. It is a Victorian harbour that has seen the emigration of tens of thousands of Irish people to the United Kingdom. It is a harbour that has, unfortunately, benefited from very little investment in recent years, particularly during the lifetime of the harbour company, and it is in disrepair in real terms.”
“We can understand what their difficult history is, but none of it justifies what is happening, none of it justifies standing by, none of it means it is okay not to challenge Israel on the way it is behaving. None of it means Israel is not committing genocide or breaking international law. All those things are happening and we are a member of the international community. Ireland is a country that has built its international reputation on respect for the rule of law and human rights and aid that is true to help people. Ireland needs to stand on its own two feet. I acknowledge what the Tánaiste has done in Europe, even this week. We need to build on that. We need to stop it because we will be judged on this by our children and grandchildren.”
“Let us recognise that we cannot allow to continue in Gaza what has been happening, that the collective punishment of civilians, including children, in Gaza is absolutely unsupportable and that the blockading of aid, those most basic things we all need in our lives, such as food, water and shelter, by a state that claims to be part, a normal member, of the international community cannot be allowed to continue. The thing about it is, however, that it will continue until the international community stands up and says it cannot. The difficulty we have is that there are major players within the international community, like the United States and some countries in the European Union, that will not take that stance.”
“I also recognise that they apologised for it, but it was unforgivable in many respects. To stand next to Israeli ministers and stand by them at the same time as they were openly saying they would commit war crimes is indefensible. Let us move on from that and see what we can do about brokering alliances with other member states of the European Union, other nations which, like us, include people who respect the rule of international law.”
“I do not know what their national media are covering in respect of these issues, but what I see on our televisions and on the Internet from trusted news sources is appalling. It is absolutely unforgivable and will be stain on the people of the world for generations to come. Let us take those steps forward, towards building alliances within Europe and showing we actually respect the rule of law. If we do not, what is it all for? I consider myself to be a proud European. In about half an hour, I will chair the first meeting of the Joint Committee on European Affairs in this House and I am looking forward to that immensely. I am immensely proud of what we have done within Europe, but I am also deeply ashamed of what Ursula von der Leyen and Roberta Metsola did. They are members of my party at a European level.”
“One of the things we can do is broker that agreement with our fellow European states. As I said at the start, I am proud of the stance this Government has taken in building a coalition with such countries as Malta, Belgium, Spain and Norway and recognising the Palestinian state. These are all important things, but again, though they are important principles, as the occupied territories Bill will be, they have not stopped a single rocket being fired or saved any lives. What we need to do now is build on that and speak to our European colleagues in all the other countries, especially those which are being acquiescent or intransigent on this issue, and make sure they understand exactly what is happening. I am not in Germany, Austria or Poland.”
“Anybody watching their televisions in Ireland yesterday and this morning will have seen reports from UNICEF, which is an independent broker and has no skin in the game other than to represent what is happening, telling us about the atrocities that are happening to children. It is a disturbing set of events. I have a child who will turn two next month. I cannot countenance the notion that she would be in that position, or that any of us, our children, friends, families or parents would be starved to death, not for any good or justifiable reason or legitimate end but because there appears to be a blood lust on behalf of Benjamin Netanyahu and his Government to wipe out Gaza. Let us call it what it is. Let us do what we can and also recognise what we cannot do.”
“I support the occupied territories Bill but let us be honest, it will not stop a single bullet from being fired. It will not save a single Palestinian child from starving to death the way they are at the moment. It does not mean we should not do it. We should but let us look at what we can actually do. One of the things I was really heartened to learn this week was the fact that now other European countries are coming around to our perspective on this. I recognise that some European countries have a very difficult history with the State of Israel and with the Jewish people in the aftermath of the Second World War. None of that justifies acquiescing with the genocide that is currently happening.”
“There is no justification for keeping the hostages, for allowing them to die or, in the event of them being returned or their bodies being returned, to be paraded as war trophies the way they have been. It is disgusting and absolutely reprehensible and unjustifiable. By a strange twist, while all of that is true, what Israel has done in response is also absolutely unjustifiable. It is outside the norms of any conflict I can think of. When we look back on this in years to come and when our children and our children's children look back on this, the questions we will have to be accountable for is: what did we do to try to stop it? Did we speak up? Did we use our influence internationally to say this cannot continue? I believe that, in Ireland, we have.”
“I acknowledge those Israelis who see the damage and the appalling nature of what is happening - the breaches of humanitarian law and of basic humanity going on there. I applaud them and encourage them to stand up wherever they can against what their government is doing. I also know many Jewish people in Ireland - Israeli citizens included - who are appalled by what is happening there. This is not a black and white issue and it is not the bad guys and the good guys. We know what Hamas did on 7 October 2023 was in itself an appalling act of barbarism. Hamas sacrificed the civilian population of Gaza on the altar of its own political ambition and nothing more can be said about that. Every one of those hostages should be returned.”
“I made a speech a number of years ago, when I was a Senator, in which I reiterated the fact that one can be opposed to Israeli actions without being an anti-Semite. The two are not mutually inclusive. Many of the commentators I see and hear on the Israeli side of the house would try to conflate the two as if somehow to oppose the illegal and genocidal actions of the Israel Defense Forces is to be opposed to the Jewish people, to be anti-Semitic or to in any way question their right to exist or to be where they are. Those two things are absolutely side by side and I have friends who live throughout Israel who are disgusted, appalled and ashamed by what is being done in their name by the current Israeli government. That is why this is not easy. There are always two sides to a story and this one seems particularly imbalanced.”
“This is a very important debate and one that is very close to my heart. I have spent quite a lot of time in the occupied territories in Gaza and in the West Bank. I have eaten iftar with friends in Hanunas. I have sat down with people in Rafah, Gaza City and other cities such as Nablus and Ramallah in the West Bank. This is a centuries old conflict. It is not something we will resolve quickly or anything like that. I am generally proud of what Ireland has done in terms of taking principled stance on this issue. I see Ireland as the first western country to have called out the behaviours of Israel as being illegal and contrary to all of the norms of humanitarian and international law.”
“They deserve credit but we also have to recognise, at a European level, that funding makes it possible and it makes it possible in a way that minimises the environmental impact, maximises the economic benefit and results in a product that is high quality and, obviously, something that benefits us all.”
“As a society, economy and as fellow Irish people, we owe a debt of gratitude to people around this country, whether they are in Dublin or elsewhere, who go out every day and look after their animals and their farm and do their job while also looking after the environment. At the end of the day, they create a high quality product that can be sold abroad but which also feeds our children and is served on our tables and in our restaurants here and across the European Continent. That happens because of the dedication of those people but it also happens because of the funding in place at European and national levels to support them and to ensure they can do what they do, which they do well, competently, effectively and efficiently.”
“Only 12.8% of farms in this county are owned by women, which is very much less than could be the case. Obviously, traditionally the oldest son took over the family farm. That does not have to be the case anymore and we know there are lots of farmers throughout this country who are women and who are farming excellently. They should also be supported and encouraged wherever that is possible. I will not recite the statistics in relation to the agrifood sector as they are enormous. However, the benefit of agriculture is not just an economic one; it is a cultural one and a community one. The people in this country and in this county who farm do so in difficult circumstances. It is a lonely and a dangerous job. We know the number of farm accidents that have caused significant injuries and deaths in this country.”
“In fact, I have submitted a question next week to the Minister for agriculture asking for specific targeted supports for those farmers, particularly dry stock farmers, in my area in places like the Scalp and Ballyman. These are people who do not have expansive, good land available to them and yet they still produce a fine, very high quality product. They deserve to be recognised in that regard but also supported through funding. I also acknowledge the funding that is there for the Dublin Rural LEADER programme and the work it does in helping Dublin farmers through that programme, as well as the other measures I mentioned already. I raised this issue but we also have a situation with the gender profile of farmers in Ireland. It is a very male dominated industry, in Dublin anyway.”
“That is a national point but in terms of Dublin, it is important to remember that are 680 farms in Dublin. That is 0.5% of the national number of farms but it is a lot of communities, households and families supported by agriculture. The average size of the farms is 51 ha, so they are not enormous farms, certainly by European standards but even by Irish standards. I have asked that we put in place supports, particularly for farmers in the Dublin area. They often fall between the cracks. I am a member of the Irish Farmers' Association but meetings do not happen in my area. We have to go to north Wicklow, and that is okay. However, the point is that just because there is a small number of farmers in an area does not mean they are less important or they do not deserve the supports.”
“They are still going to eat meat, but it is just going to come from other jurisdictions where there is much more carbon intensive production and there are much greater emissions from the production of beef - for example, in Brazil or Argentina - than there are in Ireland. There is also the carbon cost of transporting that beef from South America to Europe. These are wider and perhaps nuanced pictures that are very often ignored in the climate conversation but are also ignored in the climate targets for Ireland. The targets are solely nationally based and do not take into account that if you reduce emissions from agriculture in Ireland, the reality is you are going to consume more agriculture products from other countries where there is a more carbon intensive farming model. That has to be a bad thing.”
“Irish farmers deserve an awful lot of credit for the amount of work they do to safeguard the environment they farm and the environment around their animals, to ensure they have hedgerows in place, to ensure they rotate fields, etc. They deserve credit for that and they do not always get it because we hear all the time how agriculture is carbon intensive and is a huge source of emissions. Of course, that is true but you cannot just wipe that off the map because you then have a different problem to solve in terms of food supply. For example, if we decide we are going to reduce our dependence on the national herd in Ireland, you are not going to say to Irish consumers you are going to consume less meat.”
“Slaughtering that animal at an earlier age and when it is ready to be slaughtered, means that it is producing less carbon in its lifetime. These are incredibly important academic decisions again being made through the support of the same funds that allow us to reduce the environmental impact that agriculture has in general. We also have to be cognisant of the fact that when we talk about the environmental impact of agriculture, in Ireland it is less per kilogram of beef or whatever metric you want to use to assess it, particularly compared to countries outside the European Union which do not have the same regulations, the same restrictions and the same measures in place to mitigate the impact of farming on the environment. That is not just in terms of carbon emissions but in terms of the impact it has on a landscape, on biodiversity etc.”
“However, perhaps the most important point in the current climate - I use the word "climate" somewhat ironically - is what farmers do to prevent climate change and support the protection of the environment through all the schemes provided by the Department of agriculture and, by extension, the European Union. Those schemes are hugely important for supporting biodiversity on farms and reducing the intensity of farming on farms. We then look at the work that is done by research institutions like Teagasc and the research on different types of grass or swards that can be fed to animals that reduce the carbon emissions. Look at how long the lifespan of an animal that is going to be slaughtered for meat can be.”
“The quality of food we produce in this country, the grass-fed beef, with animals out in the open, is done with very little of the intensive farming we might find particularly in very large farming operations on the Continent. With no disrespect to our colleagues in the European Union, the result is a much higher quality agricultural product than we might get in any other country in the world. That is something we can be immensely proud of but it is also expensive to render a quality product at that level. It would not possible to do it without the supports we put in place for farmers and agriculture. It ensures the survival of not just those farms but of the rural economy and all the communities attached to those rural economies.”
“The Common Agricultural Policy is a massively important part of a Europe-wide effort to safeguard EU farmers and the manner in which we farm in the European Union. Comparing the way we farm here to the intensive farming we might associate more with the United States, it is better for the environment, the communities and the animals involved. All of these are supported by the structure of funding that is available to farmers to support them and ensure they are viable. Even within the European Union there are big differences. For example, I will compare the manner of farming in Ireland to that in France. It is much more intensive in France.”
“The CAP, by extension, something we have been part of for generations now, is a hugely important part of the infrastructure that supports agriculture. It allows agriculture to exist beyond a subsistence level and to be a functional part of our economy. It supports functioning farms that are profit-making and delivering food onto the tables of Ireland and the rest of the world, and delivering money, jobs and resources into communities. That is also hugely important. Improving agricultural productivity and supporting farmers to ensure a stable, affordable food supply is beneficial to us from the point of view of food supply but also in supporting rural and farming communities around the country.”
“When I stand up to speak on agricultural issues, it causes great mirth among my colleagues in the parliamentary party but it is an important issue for all of us. The sooner we realise that agriculture affects everybody in this country, not just those in rural communities, but those of us in all constituencies, the better. I come from a constituency where we have farms, even though people do not seem to know about it. Ballyman and the Scalp in the south west of the Dún Laoghaire constituency have a number of farms that are important parts of our agriculture infrastructure. Across Dublin there are quite a number of farms. As I understand it from the CSO, in 2023 some 31,818 ha of land were being farmed in Dublin, which astonished me. Farming and agriculture affect all of us and exist in every part of the country.”
“If we are serious about maintaining these important structures, let us put in place a scheme that shows we are serious. Let us put in place an actual heritage harbours scheme that helps places such as Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown deal with what is an estimated €800,000 annual maintenance cost just for Dún Laoghaire Harbour. That does not include Bullock Harbour and Coliemore Harbour. For all the other local authorities around the country, it does not include from Cahersiveen and Castlemaine to Drogheda, Dundalk and north Donegal. I am only aware of eight harbours that are actually owned and maintained by the State. The rest of them are left to the mercy of local authorities who might or might not find the funding to do what needs to be done to preserve them.”
“I am not aware that Dublin Port sent a single euro to maintain that important harbour, which is much older and dates back to medieval times. It is another very important heritage harbour, where the wall is so unstable, that, for a long time, people were not even allowed to walk on it. Further south again is what I think is the smallest operating harbour on the east coast of Ireland, Coliemore Harbour, which is opposite Dalkey Island. This harbour was there in Viking times, to allow the Vikings to transport goods to and from their trading posts on Dalkey Island. We know that a large slab of granite fell off the wall of that harbour in recent years in a place where people swim, people have small boats and where there are small fishermen and boat tours to Dalkey Island.”
“I thank the Minister of State for his response. I appreciate the suggestion that the Government is fully committed to the protection and preservation of our maritime cultural heritage. Regrettably, I do not think the evidence is there to support that statement. If we were serious about maintaining these important heritage harbours, we would put in place a scheme to do that, and not say that there is a load of grants that might be available at the right time and in the right circumstances. That will not solve the problem. I have spoken mostly about Dún Laoghaire, but just down the coast is Bullock Harbour, north of Dalkey and south of Dún Laoghaire. It is hugely important, much older harbour, that, for some reason, was left in the ownership of Dublin Port.”
“A small local authority like Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, which is often seen as very wealthy but is in fact the smallest of the Dublin local authorities and the poorest in real terms, would never have the resources to properly maintain this harbour. Can we acknowledge that we need a funding stream to maintain them, that they are worth maintaining, and that they are important heritage assets from their history, their design and the engineering feats that they are? Can we recognise that this funding stream has to come from a scheme paid for by central government, a scheme that will realise their value not just for the local people but for the whole country and its heritage?”
“I want the Minister of State to commit to a scheme from central government to support the existence of these enormously important heritage assets that preserves them and protects them, and makes sure the infrastructure will not deteriorate over time for the lack of investment. The way the Government approached this in 2018 was to hand it lock, stock and barrel to the local authorities. This happened all over the country. They did so with an accounting trick with Dún Laoghaire Harbour where they deemed the East Pier to be an asset because it is a physical thing, but in reality it was a liability. There was an expectation on the local authority.”