John McGuinness
Carlow-Kilkenny · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“That concludes our business for this morning. I thank all the Members, the staff, the press and everyone involved in the House for their co-operation during the term. I want to acknowledge the fact that we had Cara Darmody in the Public Gallery this morning. I omitted to mention that. I wish her well in the campaign and in her efforts.”
“For the information of Members, the Poole family are in the Public Gallery. The Ceann Comhairle has already extended a welcome to the family, but I want to bring it to the attention of the Chamber, now that there are so many of us here, that they are here. They have achieved a lot. I acknowledge their presence.”
“Letting time pass to build up evidence for a case is having horrific impacts on women. I do not know when it began to escalate, but it is now the situation that the sexual, physical and financial abuse of women is out of control.”
“I join the Ceann Comhairle in extending the welcome to you. You have come through a harrowing journey to this day and you have exposed the State, as has been recorded by the Taoiseach, the Minister and others, in terms of the most awful failings, which have had terrible consequences on your lives and the lives of your families.”
“There are support services, but we need to fund them more extensively. The refuge centres serve a great purpose, but they need to connect more directly with local councils to ensure that whatever housing is needed is delivered.”
“I commend the Minister on bringing forward this stand-alone legislation. It is important that he continue his work reforming the various aspects of legislation that need to be examined and updated in the context of what society faces today.”
The complete record
Every one of 520 lines we hold for John McGuinness, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 3 of 11.
“You need to ensure the workers and nurses we see on the front line are properly compensated and we need to ensure those who continue to argue about long Covid are answered. They are not just doing it for the fun. Some of these nurses and front-line workers have been very sick following Covid and we have not recognised it. We have pitched them all back to the HSE to work out their deal for their ongoing income. A lot of them are really stressed about all of this. They are suffering depression, anxiety, burnout and so on. We talk about it here. We identify where the problem is but for some reason we refuse to address it. Until such time as these issues are addressed, the Government can stand and be counted as not fulfilling its first obligation, which is to keep its people safe. Nurses and front-line workers deserve better.”
“I hear no talk about that in the context of staffing levels. Have they been completed? We need to have fewer promises from Government and politicians with regard to how all of this going to be achieved. We should be dealing with the reality of the crisis that faces nurses, be they in general hospitals or in the mental health setting, but we do not. I would like to see more time given to a discussion about management to deliver what we are speaking about to the front-line workers and to ensure they get the best for their jobs. In his day, Bernard Gloster promised a skills facilitator for St. Luke's in Kilkenny. It never happened, and that is what I am talking about when I talk about promises made. You need to do what you say.”
“It is hypocrisy to speak here and for the HSE or Government, whoever is at fault, to not give the appropriate pay and conditions to those we are speaking about. We need to change that radically. St. Luke's in Kilkenny is a level 3 hospital. It is short between 70 and 100 nurses. They use a lot of money to bring them in from the private sector to nurse in that hospital. When I see that, I think of the management and structure in the HSE. It is not good. It is not best practice, and it is not good business for the country. We should be doing a lot more to manage the staff we need and the qualifications we need within the health service. We should be doing an awful lot to support the nurses and midwives financially and in terms of their work arrangements. There is a new hospital ready to be opened in Thomastown.”
“I thank all of the nurses and midwives we are speaking about this evening. I certainly appreciate them. I thank them for their passion for the job, and for their commitment and dedication. I also recognise that we stood in this House and applauded all of the front-line workers and made comments and statements about nurses and others. Yet, we did not fulfil what is necessary, which is pay and conditions, the proper number of staff and allowing them to perform their functions, which they are very good at. I stand in solidarity with the ambulance drivers today and say we should recognise what they are doing and improve the range of qualifications now in play and ensure they have the numbers to do the job the way we expect them to do it.”
“Take away the red tape and bureaucracy and start understanding that it is the farmers and those who live in the countryside who care for it. Then, make it easier for them to draw down whatever financial supports might be available so they can continue their work without having to fill out a huge number of forms and tick boxes and then be caught at times because they have either not ticked the box or have ticked the wrong box. Where is Europe in terms of leadership on the cost-of-living crisis we are going through? Where was it on insurance and banking? Why can we not access low interest rates, banking institutions and insurance? Why? I have not heard any of this raised in the European Union and I urge the representatives we have elected to do so.”
“We - Ireland and the Government in question - used Europe as a dumping ground; we sent stuff to Europe. For example, people such as Noel McGree, and Dan Brennan in my own constituency, raised an issue in the European Union and had it dealt with, but there has been almost no outcome, other than constant deliberation and nonsense to pretend that something is being dealt with when it is not. Julie Grace is another example of a whistleblower who went to Europe, aired her case and the European Union just turned a deaf ear. We in Ireland did the same thing. We provided the direction for these people to go to Europe in order that we would get them away somewhere else and we would not have to deal with them under the whistleblower legislation. I would like to see farmers and the farming community better recognised in the European Union.”
“That happens regularly and we do not have sufficient input here to analyse what is actually going on, to raise our criticisms, and to raise suggestions to make things better, because it is done and dusted and we do not have a say. That is not democracy. That is simply bureaucratic structures imposing their desire to have the European Union go in a particular direction and not take into consideration consequences for its members. For example, the consequences of the financial crash were that we picked up the debt. Germany, France and Italy insisted on it, yet in Ireland, Jonathan Sugarman highlighted the fact that the Italian bank was bust. Did the Italian bank get sanctioned? No. Did Jonathan Sugarman get sanctioned? Yes. He is living a life that is far from perfect and ideal and was never recognised for the work he has done.”
“That is why I will call on the Minister of State to highlight the need to overhaul the bureaucratic structure in the European Union to make it far more transparent and usable, and to have far more emphasis in those structures on the people we represent. The Minister of State said the European Union is about us. We are European. We are the members, but sometimes it feels as if you are outside the door and that somebody else, other than those we elect to the European Parliament, are actually making those decisions. That approach can be seen by way of the various regulations, legislation or direction that is sent to us here in Ireland, to the Government, to transpose into Irish law.”
“I compliment the Minister of State on his input into European affairs. I know he is dedicated and that he participates at all levels within the European Union. I commend him on the work he is doing. I know the value of the European Union, of the Single Market, and how valuable it is for Ireland to be a member of the European Union, but that does not mean that, in a debate like this, we cannot raise our concerns about Europe and the direction it is taking. From the beginning, Europe was about people. It was about the people whom we represent and the people who elect those in all other member states to represent them in the European Union. Irish people believe that is the way it should work. Democracy should work in that fashion, but it does not really, in the European Union.”
“They are spoken so highly of, yet we often turn our backs on them. That is not right. We need to find a way for their difficulties to be communicated directly to Government when action is required. The European Union has let us down in this area. It has not led the debate when it should have.”
“It also needs to provide some form of intervention as we approach summer and then go into winter to those who are marginalised, elderly or sick, so they will get the necessary supports to fill their tanks without being embarrassed about going for financial supports in different places to buy a drum of home heating oil. I delivered a drum of home heating oil to an elderly constituent. It was a sad day when that happened, to find someone who was elderly and cold in their house but could not fill their tank. If the Government is to respond to the sensible people on the protest, the ones who are really put to the pin of their collar, it needs to address that issue and address it significantly. I have always stood up for the SME sector and the farming community in this House because they are the backbone of the economy and create jobs.”
“It is disappointing that those early protestors who asked politely for a meeting were not heard. I am not talking about what happened at the end of the protest. I am not talking about those who were considered to be far right or however they were described. The ones I am speaking about were ordinary people trying to get their message across. It was wrong of Government not to reach out on day one or day two to those sensible people who were making that case. As we discuss haulage, agriculture and supports for farmers, contractors, the construction sector and others, we cannot ignore the fact that home heating oil is at a level that is hard to explain to the householder. The Government needs to provide answers to that.”
“There was too much inconsiderate language used to described those who were on the protest. The people I met on the protest in Kilkenny and Carlow were ordinary farmers, businesspeople and families who wanted to express the fact that they were suffering badly in terms of the cost of living, the cost of energy, the cost of home heating oil and so on. In Kilkenny, I saw where Philip Ireland, who organised the event, worked closely with the Garda. They provided stewards and there was no hassle. As I said in the House during another debate, it was the first time I saw kids having the space to play hopscotch on a roundabout. There was a good feeling within that protest, yet there was a sad side to it as well. There were families who were forced to go out in that protest to get their message across to the political system.”
“I have no doubt that part of the problem for the route was the cost of putting the vehicle on the road, the cost of energy and the cost of fuel. It will now be introduced for Carlow to Waterford in terms of a public service obligation but what concerns local communities affected along the route from Waterford to Dublin Airport is the fact they might not have a service or that they may only have a part service because of the public service obligation. I want to put the Minister of State on notice that that is not good enough and we will need a response in time, ensuring the costs affecting that route in terms of Expressway's provision are addressed. The public discontent about how people were treated during the recent protests cannot be ignored by this House.”
“If we can stabilise their costs, it means those using their services will not face extra costs. It is a sensible approach in the scheme and it is addressing directly the issues that will impact on our economy and on the people who rely on these services. Expressway formally notified the National Transport Authority that it will not be operating route 4 as and from the end of this month. That will have a huge impact on the travelling public going to hospital appointments, schools, colleges or wherever they might be going for social occasions. To think that service would end without a seamless transition to another service and another bus operator, the mind boggles. It should not be allowed to happen.”
“That is why I would like the Minister of State to respond, if necessary, to the bigger just-in-time services, particularly those companies that are in Dublin and have a huge number of vans in their fleet, to ensure the parcels they receive, whether business to business, business to household or simply online purchases, are supported. It is hugely important that all those sectors that rely heavily on the cost of fuel be examined and that the State be agile in its response to any issues that might arise for those businesses. I say this because the profit margin in haulage companies is not exactly big. Their profit is heavily reliant on the stability of the cost of inputs and so on. It turns out we cannot rely on that stability any more because of the wars. It is good to see bus and coach operators there.”
“They are the main employers in some local communities, or they are certainly part of a network of small businesses that create a huge number of jobs in rural Ireland. The question is whether they deserve the support, and the answer is that they do. Every time there is a price increase and that price increase is passed on, it is the end user who pays for it. It is always the customer of one company or another that has to use transport to get goods and services to the market or the bigger companies that use parcel operators throughout the country to transport their goods or services.”
“I welcome the package of measures under the transporters' support scheme being debated. It is absolutely necessary for this scheme to be rolled out quickly. I note there will be back payments and that it is a short scheme. There will be recognition of any further turbulence in relation to oil markets and the impact that those markets may have on our economy. My background is in haulage, both in the heavy haulage end of it and the parcel end of it. I have seen first hand what is happening to haulage companies. They have gone through the experience of the crash warehousing their debt and their revenue. They have worked away to stay in business to this day. I compliment them on the efforts that they made. Most of those big companies are based on family and commitment from their employees.”
“Before we conclude our business, I want to join with the Members who expressed their good wishes to Brigid McGlynn and to wish her well in her retirement. Anyone who knows Brigid knows her as an extremely hard-working member of staff of this House. I am sure that the vast amount of knowledge and experience that she has over all of her years of service will be missed when she goes into retirement. She is a very pleasant person, hard working and dedicated. I wish her the very best on her last day here and for the future in her retirement with her family.”
“Before we move on to the next question, I welcome all of the students in the Public Gallery. It is great to see you here this morning. I hope you enjoy your day in Leinster House and your visit. I particularly welcome the students from the Christian Brothers College in Kilkenny and their teacher, Mr. Murphy. You are all very welcome. Enjoy your day.”
“We move now to the International Co-operation (Omagh Bombing Inquiry) Bill 2026. Amendments Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, and 10 to 17, inclusive, are related and will be discussed together. Amendment No. 1 arises out of committee proceedings. Deputy Mark Ward is taking these amendments in the name of Deputy Matt Carthy.”
“Seanad amendments Nos. 20, 30, 56 to 60, inclusive, 63, 67, 78, 93, 103, 105, 106, 109 to 112, inclusive, 114, 116, 146, 148, 155, 156, 160, 164 to 166, inclusive, 172, 175, 176, 178, 179 and 404 are related and will be discussed together.”
“Amendments Nos. 18, 19, 81, 180, 217, 219, 222, 223, 225, 228 to 230, inclusive, 233, 244, 245, 261, 263, 266, 267, 276, 276a, 277, 278, 280 to 283, inclusive, 287 to 291, inclusive, 304, 308, 313, 315, 320, 328a, 329, 330, 338, 339, 434 and 492 are related and will be discussed together.”
“Amendments Nos. 6, 9, 10, 12, 13, 17, 21 to 24, inclusive, 26, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 48, 50, 54, 55, 61, 62, 64 to 66, inclusive, 68 to 74, inclusive, 76, 80, 83, 84, 86, 90, 91, 95, 97, 99 to 102, inclusive, 107, 113, 115, 117, 118, 121 to 128, inclusive, 130, 131, 134 to 136, inclusive, 141, 147, 149, 151, 159, 167 to 171, inclusive, 173, 174, 177, 181, 182, 192, 193, 195, 196, 198, 199, 205, 211, 215, 216, 221, 232, 237, 238, 260, 265, 269, 274, 285, 292, 293, 295 to 297, inclusive, 302, 322, 323, 326, 331, 333 to 335, inclusive, 337, 342, 346, 347, 349 to 353, inclusive, 355, 356, 358 to 367, inclusive, 370 to 377, inclusive, 379 to 383, inclusive, 385 to 389, inclusive, 391 to 393, inclusive, 395, 397, 400 to 402, inclusive, 405, 408, 410, 411, 418, 426 to 432, inclusive, 435 to 437, inclusive, 462 to 464, inclusive, are related and will be discussed together.”
“Will the Minister please tell the Minister for education to release the schools that deserve to be released into the construction phase?”
“Kilkenny corporation and Kilkenny borough council were abolished and taken into Kilkenny County Council. It was the wrong decision, and it is still the wrong decision. If we are talking about developing urban centres and democracy, we need to bring democracy back to those centres like Kilkenny city and ensure that they have their corporation and county council and that people can engage with them at the lowest level in the pecking order, which is at community level and through their local corporation. It has been promised for years that we would review it. There was a Bill before the House today. I hope that the Government will see the error of its ways and provide that structure for democracy and for the people I represent.”
“There is no service when there is a bus link and other services there. Bus Éireann needs to look at this again. It is not good enough just to raise it here. I hope that a note will be taken on what needs to be done and that we will hear from the Minister. Tamara Whelan in Windgap attended the School of the Holy Spirit. For her future education through the National Learning Network, she needs a bus connection from Windgap. There is a bus service and transport from Tullaghought and Kilmoganny, but it needs to stop at Windgap. The bureaucracy and red tape attached to making that decision around a seven-minute trip is absolutely horrendous. If we are serious about connecting those who require further education to the centre, then we have to consider that.”
“I want to refer to route 4, a service that was withdrawn from rural Ireland that served as a connection to Dublin and Waterford. It was to be finished in May. The misinformation that is out there has not been addressed by the transport authority. Part of that route is being put out for public consultation, but we do not know if the full route is being retained for the people who travel there for hospital appointments, college, school and social occasions. Nobody knows what is happening. I ask the Minister to please ask the authority to issue a comprehensive statement on exactly where we are going with that. Schools in Kilkenny city are often full and as a result of that, people go to Scoil Aireagail and other schools around the county. However, Bus Éireann told them today that there would be no service. That is shocking.”
“People have made their contribution and paid their taxes and now they are suffering because of Government policy or misplaced policy. I would like their voices to be heard. Likewise, Inistioge is a beautiful part of County Kilkenny. People there are being deprived of their development and future because they do not have the infrastructure in terms of water and sewage treatment. They have been up and down on the list. They have been second, third and fourth and no one gives them an explanation. No one engages with them about a plan that will allow development to take place. Due to that, small businesses there, like the local pub and local shop, are under threat. They are reliant on business to come seasonally, but that is often not enough to take them through the harsh reality of business today.”
“They are probably the same issues and problems that face small businesses all over the place. I am referring, however, to small family businesses that have been put out of business or are struggling because of insurance costs, the general cost of doing business, and red tape and bureaucracy. I will cite one such family, Paudie and Catherine Neill from Thomastown, who had to close their business. I raised it in the Dáil previously. They are a hard-working family. Now, a big part of that street in Thomastown is vacant and left without a great existence because the mainstay is gone. Direct intervention is required in situations like that. The over-the-shop funding needs to be looked at in the context of what is happening in rural Ireland and the closures that are affecting the shop downstairs and living accommodation upstairs.”
“The farmers were there complaining about the fuel costs, and rightly so. They are understandably getting their package today. However, we need to deal with other issues we hear about in rural Ireland in relation to the cost of living and the cost of home heating oil. I would hope that the Government will continue to monitor the situation and ensure that those who are marginalised and elderly, in particular, have a package of some sort to take them through to the budget and beyond. We need to focus our policies, actions and budgets on people. It needs to be people centred and we need to support communities and families. I listened to Deputy Quaide's contribution and I have to say that I cannot disagree with anything he said, or at least most of what he said, in that he highlighted the problems facing businesses in rural Ireland.”
“I will share time with Deputy Brennan. I welcome the debate. It is timely, particularly in light of the outcome of the various protests we have had in recent weeks. I want to put on the record that the people I met on the protests were decent individuals. They were farmers, families and children. They gave no problems in relation to the stewarding of the protest itself and they were anxious to make a point. Whatever is being said nationally about those who were on the protest, I think it has angered and insulted the ordinary decent men, women and families who I met. They were out there because of the frustration they were experiencing and because they believed that they were being neglected. They believed that their ambitions were not being fulfilled and that they were not being supported by the Government.”
“Deputy Doherty, address your remarks through the Chair. Have a bit of respect for other Members in terms of how you address them. There is an appropriate way to do that. You might engage with and check the Standing Orders as well so that when you come in here, you understand that you are governed by certain Standing Orders.”
“The Minister should address his remarks through the Chair. With the permission of the Members, we will go back to Priority Question No. 87 in the name of Deputy Byrne. He has brought a note and has apologised for being late.”
“I thank the Deputy. Before calling the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, I extend a welcome to the Flemish minister for agriculture and environment, and the ambassador, who are here with the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan. You are very welcome. For those in the Public Gallery, it is good to see so many in attendance. I mention in particular the representative from Taiwan, Daniel Diann-Wen Tang, his wife, Stephanie Chang, and Christina Hong, here with Deputy Barry Ward. You are very welcome. I must also mention that Deputy Timmins is in the Gallery with some visitors. You are all very welcome. It is good to see the representative here from Taiwan and the Flemish delegation too. We now move to the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor.”
“The Select Committee on Arts, Media, Communications, Culture and Sport has completed its consideration of the following Revised Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending 31 December 2026: Vote 33.”
“If somebody does not have the money to do it up front, it is a nightmare as far as red tape and bureaucracy are concerned. If somebody goes through the likes of SSE Airtricity and avails of its home inspection scheme, which costs €650, he or she will find that at the end of it, he or she will have a nice bit of paper but nothing else. What is being recommended is so expensive that there are many households that simply cannot afford it so let us look at those who do not have something and give it to them.”
“We should have a debate about nuclear options - about nuclear power and what is happening right across Europe. We are prepared to import it because it was produced that way but yet we are not prepared to examine it fully in terms of the State and how we should be preparing for the future. The carbon tax is another example of being driven down a particular route to suit Europe. We have a war across many countries that is affecting the world and I would say that in wartime, we should be willing to look at every option that is central to the upkeep of the well-being and coffers of the State and be prepared to make the changes that are necessary to make the lives of people much better. Reference was made to the retrofitting of homes.”
“As long as that happens, the bigger companies push ahead with their agenda but the Government, which is responsible for the direction the country is taking, simply stands idly by and does not engage with this House here or with the communities that are affected in any sort of meaningful way. I have great concern for the elderly, those living in poorly heated accommodation, young families and individuals living in substandard apartments who must fork out more and more money for the heating systems in their apartments and are not getting a direct support in these measures. In reviewing all of this because it will remain under review while the war continues and the uncertainty is there, I ask the Minister to look at and support those that we know need greater support than what was given to them today.”
“Similarly, farmers produce our food yet they did not get the type of support they should have got in this basket of supports. Again, if they do not get support with their costs, it ends up with the consumer or it ends up in the pocket of some of the bigger supermarkets all over the country. We all know this from previous experiences but we are not translating it properly into the type of financial support that is needed quickly and immediately. I have my view on renewable energy and wind farms. I think we are destroying the countryside with them. Where are the regulations that were promised way back in 2016 or 2013? Where are they? We were told we would have them in the first quarter of this year but we do not have them.”
“I welcome the measures that have been introduced. They were timely and perhaps they could have been introduced earlier if we were agile enough as a State to turn around, identify where the problems are and then deal with them but, unfortunately, we are not. It signals that there is a clear dysfunction at the heart of administration in this country and that we do not plan for the future. I hope the measures are a first step because when we look at what was given to the hauliers, and I put on the record that my background is in transport, much more needs to be done and we have to be able to change what we have been doing very quickly if something else should happen to push prices up because the cost to hauliers will simply be passed on to the consumer. It ends up at the door of the consumer anyway.”
“He has left now, but I want to acknowledge Senator Wilson and the officials he brought visiting here, representing Taiwan in their Dublin office. They are very welcome and I hope they enjoy their day in Dáil Éireann.”
“That concludes questions to the Minister for agriculture. We will now move on to Leader's Questions. Before I call Deputy Doherty, I want to welcome a group of history students and their teachers to the Public Gallery. They are guests of Deputy Timmins and are very welcome. I hope they enjoy their day in Dáil Éireann.”
“I ask Deputies, the Minister and Ministers of State to stick to their allocated time. I do not want to get into a crossfire exchange with Members. I ask for greater efficiency in the use of their time.”
“While we have spoken about it and put new strategies in place, they are not delivering in the way they should. I refer to the rape crisis centres and Amber in Kilkenny, the refuge. I know the new refuge in Carlow will be delivered. Is it not a strange thing, with the emphasis being on all of this, that it does not radically change the attitudes of people? It does not seem in any way to put some time on this where we want to have something done before a date. We need to examine how we respond and if that timing is correct.”
“Quite frankly, I think that is a disgusting element of society, a disgusting part of our social system and our court system, that they are not acknowledged in a way that respects the problems they have. Their lives are being stolen from them and they are turning to the system, which it seems turns against them. I am shocked by the stories they have told me and by the way they were treated. Likewise in relation to the Defence Forces, I have listened very carefully to what women who were members of the force had to say. How far have we got with that? How far have we reached out to those who are affected to give them some hope this system is listening to them? You would think the system is deaf when it comes to women's health, breast cancer and so forth.”
“I could not but be impressed by her grasp of what needed to be done, not just in the sector that she represents but in society in general and how we can improve things. In the audiovisual room I saw a group of young women who are affected by Friedrich's ataxia. They put forward their views in what I considered to be a stunning, passionate contribution asking the Minister to make the appropriate drug available to deal with their issue and prolong their lives. All of that together represents a positivity that we can acknowledge. On the other side of this, I have listened to contributions from young women, in particular affected by Tusla and about hearings in the courtroom, what is said to them, how it is said to them and how it treats them badly and does not acknowledge fully what they are going through.”
“She is a huge figure in Kilkenny and someone who has given great hope to all of those who want to participate in sport. In terms of administration, I listened to Linda Kenny from Carlow speaking about her input into sport, the organisation of sport, clubs and so on. All of it was focused on women, young children and general community participation and achievement in the sporting world. Katelyn Cummins has been mentioned. Again, she is a figure young people can look to and say that can be achieved and can be done. Josephine O'Neill is the current president of Macra na Feirme. I listened carefully to a contribution she made locally in Kilkenny and at a recent county council meeting, where she was honoured.”
“A day like this helps us to pause the cycle all of us are in and gives us a chance to reflect on how far we have come, or indeed what other work needs to be done, particularly in the context of International Women's Day. I reflect on my mother, who had a great social conscience and formed the politics I stand for today. I would like to acknowledge that. Of course, as you grow up then, you are influenced by your family, your wife and your daughter. My daughter Alva bullied me a lot but she got me on the right course and kept me informed. Now, as a granddad, I listen to my granddaughters, Ellie, Robin, Phoebe and Nancy. I see the way they are influenced by people who achieved something in sport, for example, because they are all involved in sport. There is the likes of Mary Fitzgerald, a Paralympian who contested in the shot put.”
“I am going to have to rule the question out of order. If Deputy O'Flynn accepts what the Tánaiste has said, he will check to determine what can be said to the House and will reply directly to the Deputy or the House, whatever is deemed legally correct to do. We will move on from there.”