John McGuinness
Carlow-Kilkenny · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“That concludes our business for this morning. I thank all the Members, the staff, the press and everyone involved in the House for their co-operation during the term. I want to acknowledge the fact that we had Cara Darmody in the Public Gallery this morning. I omitted to mention that. I wish her well in the campaign and in her efforts.”
“For the information of Members, the Poole family are in the Public Gallery. The Ceann Comhairle has already extended a welcome to the family, but I want to bring it to the attention of the Chamber, now that there are so many of us here, that they are here. They have achieved a lot. I acknowledge their presence.”
“Letting time pass to build up evidence for a case is having horrific impacts on women. I do not know when it began to escalate, but it is now the situation that the sexual, physical and financial abuse of women is out of control.”
“I join the Ceann Comhairle in extending the welcome to you. You have come through a harrowing journey to this day and you have exposed the State, as has been recorded by the Taoiseach, the Minister and others, in terms of the most awful failings, which have had terrible consequences on your lives and the lives of your families.”
“There are support services, but we need to fund them more extensively. The refuge centres serve a great purpose, but they need to connect more directly with local councils to ensure that whatever housing is needed is delivered.”
“I commend the Minister on bringing forward this stand-alone legislation. It is important that he continue his work reforming the various aspects of legislation that need to be examined and updated in the context of what society faces today.”
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“That is the emphasis we need to go back to as a country. I encourage the Minister to have those debates that are necessary and that we shape our policy on those grounds.”
“The citizens of the European Union are certainly feeling that they are not heard. On lots of issues, people in Ireland feel they are not being heard. Policy in the past was shaped by democratically elected Members of Parliament. That is not happening at the moment. Policy is being changed and rammed down the throats of many countries and through parliaments. Some of the changes we do not even know about because we do not get a chance to debate them here. If we are going to have meaningful change, I suggest Ireland needs to play a significant, central role in Europe in shaping policy around the proper language in dealing with all of the issues and, indeed, in informing the policy about the positions that the citizens of Europe want to take relative to their lives and their future. Peace is what Europe should be about.”
“I want to pick up on a phrase used by Deputy Gibney. It cannot be business as usual. Deputy Gibney is absolutely correct. The world is in a crisis, changing every single day with the usual norms not being acknowledged or adhered to. Countries are having to reshape or reset their policies in order to deal with the daily changes that are being brought on us, mainly by the US President, Donald Trump, and by others. I urge the Government to respect the democracy of this Parliament and to have the debates that are being asked for so we can have an input, whether that is the triple lock or any other measure that is going to be discussed by the European Union in terms of policy. We should have our say. If we look across the European Union, we will see lots of countries protesting. People are feeling disenfranchised.”
“Before I call Deputy Crowe, I welcome all those in the Public Gallery. I am sure they are interested in the debate. Some are here at the invitation of the Minister of State, Deputy Troy. There is a group that represents Down's syndrome families in Kilkenny. It includes Ciara Hayes, Danny Roche, John Barry, Mary Barry and Sean Manicle, and the two leaders of that group who are central to it, Cormac and Holly. They are all very welcome. I thank them for coming along. I hope they enjoy their time in Leinster House.”
“I acknowledge Deputy Malcolm Byrne and his group in the Public Gallery. It is the second time I have seen him there this evening. I hope they are enjoying their venture into Leinster House and I hope their visit goes well.”
“I will make reference to a matter I have raised here and was referred to earlier on in the debate, the taxation of carer's allowance. Today, Revenue informed my office that it would not be undertaking inspections that might identify where arrears have arisen. I accept that. With regard to value for money, I ask the Minister of State to look at the money we are currently spending on caring for people in their homes and tell me whether he believes we are getting value for that money. Does he believe those being cared for are getting value?”
“They are forced to do five minutes here and then 15 minutes over there, which really makes little or no contribution to the person's state of care or to the family. They are pushed to the pin of their collar to fulfil the hours given to them by the service providers. Many of these are commercial entities as distinct from not-for-profit or community-based entities. I would like to see far more community-based providers so that people in local nursing homes would be getting care provided by people who are deeply interested in a standard, even without the legislation being in place. I am deeply concerned about the current situation. It is not right that people are not given the care their families are promised.”
“However, for a hospital to promise families that the service providers will provide a certain level of care to older people being discharged to their homes only for that not to be delivered is a bad way to do business. Those in the hospitals should be truthful to the families concerned so that they know what they will be given rather than being promised a lot more. The Minister of State has to address that because it is not fair to families who opt to care for these people at home. It is not fair for them to be misled by the hospital as to what can be delivered. I am not saying it is the hospitals' fault. The expectation is that the staff will be there. However, the reality is that staff are forced to make all sorts of efforts.”
“They constantly complain that there is no profit in their sector because the Department is the entity that makes them price takers and that the Department has little or no consideration for the actual cost. If you do not acknowledge the actual cost, you risk the possibility of a lower standard being applied when the chief inspector or HIQA is not watching. That is my very serious concern. The current situation is that the Government pays for up to 3.9 million hours of disability services. Over the period from 2020, this has increased substantially. There is also provision for 26.7 million hours of older people's services. I support care of the person in the home. I want to see more of it.”
“However, the question I have for the Minister of State is whether he has costed the consequences of the implementation of this legislation because there is no doubt that all of what he is going to enforce through it is going to cost the service provider and, at the end of the day, it is the customer that will pay. As private and not-for-profit companies implement what is necessary under this Bill, they will incur huge costs. I have not seen any breakdown of the expected consequences of those costs for individual service providers. How is the Minister of State going to regulate for that? Are we going to have a situation like that of the nursing homes? They are price takers.”
“There is no doubt that the Bill is needed and that the regulatory framework to which the Minister of State commits is needed. In fact, it is long overdue. I am happy to see the service providers in this area regulated. I am also happy to see HIQA applying standards and that there are safeguards for the users of the service. Likewise, the role of the chief inspector and the work to be undertaken by that office is necessary. I read through the Minister of State's statement and I found no fault with the intentions of the Bill, and the reasons it is needed.”
“It creates a deal of anger and frustration for Members not to be able to have those issues addressed. While the legislation is needed, I ask the Minister about those safeguards. I ask him to look at the cost of that agency. I ask him, in his position as Minister, to take on board the views of this House, expressed by some, in relation to nuclear power, wind energy and the difficulties for the communities and applications that are there. I ask that these matters be addressed as soon as possible and for some sort of balance to be brought to how we do our business.”
“We talk about it here and, quite frankly, the Government has been very slow in acknowledging the difficulties communities have all over the country. The lack of regulation is actually driving a wedge in local communities between those who own land and want to develop it for wind farms and those who simply want no wind farms or want an input into where they are going. It is fair to ask that. You are not stopping it but, rather, asking for the regulation which has been promised since 2013 to be dealt with it. This brings us again to the parliamentary questions we ask here, whether they are about this piece of legislation or that regulation. You just get the same tripe set out in replies to parliamentary questions. The same bluff is expressed but the real issue is not dealt with.”
“If we go back to 2013, they were debated in this House but we still have not received them. Why does it take so long to bring forward regulation or legislation that will govern development like this, not to stop or hold them up but to regulate them and acknowledge the rights of the communities they are affecting? In my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny and the neighbouring constituency of Laois, huge wind farms are being constructed. I visited a number of these recently and I have to say a lot of them, in their numbers, are a blight on the landscape. Yet, we have no input. We want the regulation to make a level field for those who are applying for the wind farms and those who want to protect their homes, lives and communities from the negative side of the turbines.”
“As a Republic, we should ensure the rights of our citizens. We should ensure the rights of our parliamentarians who engage on their behalf. Legislation almost prevents us from doing that. In terms of the cost, the price gouging and all of that, we need an immediate response to issues like that. Legislation like this should really be looking to the problems that may arise and that are there by way of example and ensure there is a way to address them. We are looking at energy and gas with this. There is also the issue of nuclear power, which was suggested here. The Minister should look at that. We need to have options. While we are talking about regulation, I wonder about the regulations we have been promised for wind farms. We have not received them yet.”
“I also suggest that all these utility companies, particularly those that are providing energy to households where there is an elderly individual or couple or where there is a family that is marginalised, be asked to do more to address the issues that we bring to their attention. There is a cost of living issue. There is a cost of energy issue. There are issues for households that we need to address. While I might be straying a bit from the Bill, it is all about cost. It is all about how the companies will push their cost onto the consumer. The consumer has rights but I am afraid that in the guarding of those rights we fall short as a Parliament and as Members because we cannot directly hold them to account on individual cases. That is simply not at all satisfactory. It is not at all what the State should stand over.”
“We are introducing legislation through the Minister and we should take ownership of the legislation. There should be a way for a Member of this Parliament to intervene and ask a question in order to address an issue he or she might have. We have serious problems in relation to all of the other utilities and companies because they rarely engage in a really efficient and productive way to solve a problem or an issue. I will give the example of Irish Water. I will not go into detail but there is a difficulty in dealing with it. I could give the example of local government. It is impossible to hold it to account. In the introduction of this legislation, I would like to see more done in that area to ensure we can do our work when the difficulties start to fall out over the years.”
“The cost of such an agency and the cost of implementing all of the legislation the agency will be required to do should be worked out. There is nothing like being prepared for the increases that may arise. Having said all of that and realising the importance of the work, I wonder about all of these quangos that are being set up. I understand the need for this and I am all for safety and development in this area but it really concerns me that we have so many quangos now that are outside of the reach of this House. When you ask a parliamentary question as to the status of one issue or another, the status of a company or the status of an application for a licence, you are told it is not within the remit of the Minister. That really has to stop. We are elected by the people. We are a Parliament with powers.”
“The CRU does a lot of work and we are now asking it to do further policing of licences and all of the rest associated with the Bill. I wonder about the staff levels there and how they will be addressed to ensure that, in the context of what will be expected of them, they will have the appropriate number of staff who are the professionals needed to deal with all of these issues. As we put laws in place, there is no point in them being there if we will not ensure they are implemented and those who have applied for licences or engaged in this area will respond to the standards we are asking them to achieve. When the Minister says it will not cost more, we have to be realistic about this. There is no doubt it will cost more and the levies and moneys collected will not be sufficient to cover all of those costs.”
“I welcome the Bill and commend the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, on his work in this area and that he has brought the Bill to Second Stage in the House for debate. I am sure it will be passed. The Bill is necessary but it is unbelievable that it has taken so long, albeit not under the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, to bring such a Bill to the House. It is a Bill that is fundamental in terms of development, safety, infrastructure, regulation, policing and so on. We need to examine how legislation is prepared and brought before the House and the greater efficiencies we can put in place to ensure that we can have a debate, tease out the amendments, if necessary, and deal efficiently with the business that needs to be concluded.”
“From 1 January this year, the Department of Social Protection has been sharing information with Revenue in relation to those in receipt of carer’s benefit and carer’s allowance who are on the PAYE income list for last year - they may have been working a few hours per week - to inform them that they are now to be taxed. The tax will be deducted at source. It will apply not just from this year onwards, but retrospectively as well. In other words, Revenue can come back and ask for the arrears of taxation in relation to carer’s benefit and carer’s allowance. Does the Taoiseach think that is fair? Is it possible to exclude carer’s benefit and carer’s allowance as an income? Can we ensure that fair play is applied here? These are carers. They are not earning from it.”
“I take this opportunity to join with the party leaders and the Ceann Comhairle in wishing everyone associated with this House and their families a very happy Christmas. I thank them for their co-operation during the year. In spite of going over time and into the red zone, we managed to keep the tone right. I thank them very much for their help in the job that I do.”
“Conor Reale, the parliamentary education officer. You are all very welcome today. I hope you enjoy your time in Leinster House and that your continued study of the history of this House will give you great interest in politics for the future. On Leaders' Questions, I call Deputy Doherty.”
“Before we commence Leaders’ Questions, I ask colleagues to join me in extending a warm welcome to H.E. Ms Kara Owen, the British ambassador to Ireland, who has joined us in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery. Ambassador Owen, who has recently commenced her role, is accompanied in the Chamber today by officials from the British embassy in Dublin. You are very welcome to Leinster House. We wish the ambassador every success for the future in her term. Happy Christmas to you all. Deputy Timmins has asked me to welcome the sixth year history class from Blessington Community College. I understand that 23 students are attending today, with their teacher, Kevin Murphy, who is Deputy Timmins's nephew, the deputy principals, Kevin Kelly and Ian Swan, and the SNAs. They are attending the Houses of the Oireachtas history workshop under Dr.”
“The HIQA report on Dublin referred to by the Deputy sets out specifics. The questions raised by parents all over the country are similar to the questions raised in the context of the HIQA report and Tusla. What is the process in Tusla to respond to individual complaints of a serious nature? Is it expected to respond to and deal with issues or is it the case that parents have to go further? I referred to the Jones case recently in the Chamber and I refer to it again now. I referred to a child being cared for in a hotel setting which is unacceptable. All of these things are in breach of proper procedure and standards. Given the reports I have read, Tusla needs a complete reform and overhaul in order to deal with this. I ask the Minister to insist that the CEO of Tusla respond to queries and not make false promises.”
“On the same line of questioning, if we reduce the waiting list so quickly then the next waiting list is for the therapy, so there will still be a huge number of children waiting for therapies, particularly speech and language. I referenced in the Dáil this week the children with Down's syndrome who are waiting. What happens when all of those children are added to the list?”
“A Kilkenny family adopted their son at three years of age and he is now 14. In that short time, he has been in nine different placements. He is high dependency and his behaviours are unmanageable. He has been taken back into the care of the State and Tusla have him in a hotel room where the appropriate care is not being given. I ask that some action be taken by Tusla to remedy this situation. I raised another case - the Jones case - previously. There was no action on that and in spite of meeting the chief executive officer of Tusla, I have had absolutely no response. Foster carers and kids are in real difficulty. I understand that there could be 200 waiting for placements and nothing is happening. It just cannot go on. How can a child be put in a hotel? Lastly, I asked that someone would arrange a meeting with Down Syndrome Kilkenny.”
“That brings an end to Questions on Policy or Legislation. Before we break for a sos, I will mention the death of Philippa Bayliss, the internationally renowned artist. She was born in Kilkenny in 1940. She lived in Myshall and died tragically during the week as the result of an accident. I join with the world of art in sending my condolences to her family members.”
“Last Sunday, I and a number of other public representatives met a large group of parents of children with Down's syndrome. They were frustrated and angry at the lack of general services for their children, particularly speech and language services. They pay for these services themselves, up to €40,000. Is it not time that all of these services were made available directly to these children in order that they have immediate access to speech and language therapy on a one-to-one basis? Will the Taoiseach commit to meeting this group with the Minister of State, Deputy Higgins? Will he commit to providing once-off funding in the year of up to €40,000 to cover the costs they now have to carry by themselves? There is a crisis here and these parents feel their children are being abandoned by the State.”
“As fewer than ten Members have risen, I declare the question carried. In accordance with Standing Order 87, the names of the Deputies dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil.”
“I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding trans healthcare. On Wednesday, 3 December, 2025 on the question, "That the motion be agreed to", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now. Will the Deputies claiming a division please rise?”
“I must now deal with a postponed division relating to the motion regarding the Coast Guard. On Tuesday, 2 December on the question, "That the amendment to the motion be agreed to", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now.”
“I must now deal with a postponed division relating to Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks (Amendment) Bill 2025, taken on Tuesday, 2 December 2025. On the question, "That the Bill be now read a Second Time", a division was claimed and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now.”
“I must now deal with a postponed division relating to Second Stage of the Wind Turbine Regulation Bill 2024, which took place on Thursday, 27 November 2025. On the question, "That the amendment to the motion be made", a division was claimed, and in accordance with Standing Order 85(2), that division must be taken now.”
“If the Minister is putting that amount of money into a system that answers queries in the manner I have experienced, how in the name of God can he expect them to spend the billions he is giving to them?”
“The developer wants to finish the site, conclude the development and provide 30 to 40 homes but he cannot do it. Is that not a failure of bureaucracy? On the tenant in situ scheme, I am aware of two families in Kilkenny city who qualify for the scheme but the council will not respond. I cannot understand. If there is funding there, and we are told there is, and a duty to fulfil the needs of both those families, why does the council drag its feet on the tenant in situ scheme? Finally, the number of houses throughout Carlow and Kilkenny that are vacant and waiting to be refurbished, they say, to be allocated is truly shocking. All of that may be at a very basic level but it is a fact and it is a failure of bureaucracy.”
“In the short time I have, I would like to raise a number of issues that have been raised here before, but I would like to see them addressed. In Kilkenny city over the weekend, a family - a husband and wife and two children, one of the children a special child - became homeless. They rang all of the telephone numbers to seek help and there was no answer. That is the basic failure of bureaucracy, of housing, of the Department, of anyone who should have been manning those phones, a failure to respond to the needs of that family. That is truly shocking when we consider the amount of money that is being poured into the local authorities to deliver on their housing programme. I asked previously about zoned land that is already serviced and has been dezoned.”
“The stories I am hearing about the cost of energy would frighten you, such as older people trying to heat their homes or people who are trying to do the best they can with the money they have but who simply cannot cope. The price of a bag of coal has increased significantly, as has the price of a bottle of gas. Older people, the people I am making a case for, are reaching out for the help they need just to survive. I ask the Minister of State to deal with today, the immediate future, the immediate problems people have, and do something to stop the price gouging that is going on by every single company in the State. We should be looking at nuclear power. We should not be afraid to debate that. There are huge problems with the legislation regarding wind farms.”
“It is absolutely impossible for people in their senior years to deal with energy providers or service providers. They cannot get through on the phone. They are left waiting. The companies will not correspond by email and they take a very hard-nosed approach to collecting their money. They refuse to deal with the queries people have. If only they would do that, they might resolve some of the issues and fewer people might owe the amount of money they owe or be indebted to these companies. I listened carefully to the Minister of State set aside everything that was done in the past including the relief for businesses and householders. I listened to what he said about the future. The past is the past; what people are worried about is the here and now.”
“Deputy Ahern and Members of this House are absolutely correct to call out the energy companies and we should call them out every single day where we believe it is necessary. There is no doubt that they are having a very negative effect on people in their own homes and indeed small businesses. Every small business I go to to discuss their circumstances in Carlow and Kilkenny will, first, highlight the cost of energy to them. I looked at a man's budget, Mr. Paudie O'Neill in Thomastown, County Kilkenny, regarding the running of his business. Because I was involved with that kind of business previously, I was absolutely astounded by the level of cost of energy. He had solar panels as well. He was making every effort to meet every cost that he could, but he could not deal with the energy companies.”
“The proposal is agreed to. I ask colleagues to join me in extending a very warm welcome to our Commissioner, Michael McGrath, who has joined us in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery today. Commissioner McGrath, in his role as European Commissioner for Democracy, Justice, the Rule of Law and Consumer Protection, has just come from a meeting with the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Union Affairs and is visiting Leinster House today with a delegation that comprises his Cabinet officials and Mr. Peter Power, head of the European Commission representation in Ireland. The Commissioner is very welcome. We were delighted to have him here for the part of the debate with the Minister for agriculture on our fight in Europe. He is very welcome to a gathering with which he is very familiar. I thank him very much.”
“The Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade has completed its consideration of the following Supplementary Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending on 31 December 2025: Vote 28 - Foreign Affairs and Trade. The Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach has completed its consideration of the following Supplementary Estimate for Public Services for the service of the year ending on 31 December 2025: Votes Nos. 11, 13, 14, 17 and 18 - Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach.”
“I would like to hear what she has to say about the Ulster Bank investigation, about the fact that the Financial Times mentions Ulster Bank, RBS and Lloyds, and about the suggestion of a €50 billion redress scheme. Part of what happened there is impacting the SMEs in this country. Let us know what happened within this House in relation to the banking inquiry. Let us hear directly from Lorraine Morris. Jonathan Sugarman lost his job and nothing was learned from it. Consider the case of Sean O'Brien. A Minister over the prisons at that time said that he was outrageously dismissed. The Minister said he was satisfied that Mr. O'Brien was mistreated by the State. The case was never brought to his attention.”
“Consider the case of John Barrett. The then Minister came in here to the Dáil and told us that he was being suspended but nothing happened since. John Barrett should be reinstated. He told the truth at the Committee of Public Accounts. The moral obligation should be that he should be back in his place and he should be paid. The Charleton tribunal, and the efforts being made by the State through its legal representatives, is costing the State a fortune. The ones being penalised are the ones who are making the disclosures based on truth. The ones that are making money out of it are the lawyers, paid by the Government, which is the taxpayers. I would love to hear from Lorraine Morris, who was involved in the banking inquiry here. It was a complete whitewash according to Jonathan Sugarman, and I support that view.”
“It is true to say, in the context of the people, that the State is the civil servants and the politicians, and it stands guilty of an awful injustice to the people in the Public Gallery, and to those within the system who are experiencing the chilling effect of this debate on what happened to the whistleblowers in the past and so will not come forward. The State should own up to its moral obligations and should reach out to the likes of Maurice McCabe, who may not have been here today were it not for the strength of his own family and his wife Lorraine. What has happened in the Garda since then? Have we seen dramatic reforms? Have we seen the Charleton tribunal and its output even implemented? What happened during the tribunal? My own name was besmirched by some unknown Deirdre G. during the course of that to discredit me as a witness.”
“I have respect for people in their senior years who are looking for the types of operations that would give them more years in life. I can never understand why the same ethos is not in place in hospitals to ensure that a hip or knee is replaced or cataracts are done. What have we come to? I listened to other speakers. I ask the Minister of State to listen carefully to what is being said. Everyone has a contribution to make in terms of their own locality. They are not talking out of the top of their hat. They are giving facts about projects that are working. They should be supported.”
“In the past, in healthcare, religious orders sometimes looked after the hospitals and they set up new hospitals and community hospitals. They are still going and they are a proven model. Why are we in trouble with our healthcare given the billions available now that were not available previously? I support the hospitals in Castlecomer, Thomastown, Kilmoganny and all the others getting money to continue their development because they are doing a community service. They are not just hospitals. I ask that the care of our elderly in our public hospitals be looked at. There are times when they are admitted to hospitals where it is not the right place for them. Some are ending up on beds in accident and emergency departments and not being properly cared for.”
“There is a wonderful hospital in Castlecomer, County Kilkenny. People use it for respite and it is used for the care of older people. That is a hospital model that should be developed. The community hospitals, those that are in the community supporting the care of older people, are not being funded in the way they should be. They are providing a brilliant service. It is an incredible service. For some reason or other, there is a high number of those hospitals in Carlow-Kilkenny. Every single year, they are being pushed by HIQA, or for some other reason, to spend money that they do not have. When they appeal to the Government, they receive a snail's pace response. When we have something that works, we should fund and develop it and, if possible, roll it out to the rest of the country.”
“Why are so many questions about delivery of services turning up on the Question Paper every single day? The answer is the administration is wrong, it is not efficient, it is not delivering in the way that it should and it is not getting value for money. Families often then turn to private healthcare. What I am encountering now is a wait for hip operations, knee operations and so on even within private healthcare. Something is wrong with the output for the money being spent. There is a new hospital in Thomastown in County Kilkenny, which is state of the art and a wonderful location. However, I have yet to determine when that hospital will be fully staffed and open so that the patients on waiting lists and in the hospital can be put into a better facility. I ask that someone at least explore that question, find out and let us know.”
“The families are then promised home care hours and support, only in the attempt to have the patient removed from hospital and taken home. Once home, the hours are often not delivered at all and the family is pushed to a point where some have to give up work, the person is often left alone but should not be left alone, and the health of the individual then takes a nosedive. That is not acceptable in a country that is spending the type of money that we are on healthcare. It is not acceptable that the hours would be allocated and then, when they are not sufficient, they would not be topped up by the HSE. I see it every day of the week. The Minister of State should look at the parliamentary questions being asked and ask himself why they are being asked.”