Fra McCann
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I want to thank everyone for the help that they have given me over the years, which has made my time here a lot easier. I also thank Assembly Members for the friendship, help and assistance that they have given me, from right across the Assembly Floor. I would love to say that I will miss everybody here; I probably will at times.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. <BR /> <BR />It was interesting to listen to Robbie, who has first-hand experience of what firefighters go through. To have someone like that speaking in the debate is invaluable.”
“The statistics tell us, as Members have said, that firefighters are four times more likely to develop cancer due to their regular exposure to pollutants in the work that they do on behalf of society. Further preventative measures are obviously needed, and that is what the Sinn Féin amendment addresses.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Assembly needs to send a message that that is not an acceptable way to treat front-line workers who put their lives on the line day and daily.”
“Better decontamination measures and modern, accessible facilities will improve the working lives of firefighters and help to reduce their risk of cancer and other illnesses. <BR /> <BR />I thank the DUP for bringing the motion to the Assembly, and, in conclusion, the Sinn Féin amendment strengthens what is a good motion.”
“I would have thought that such organisations, which play a vital role in local government, would have been able to tap into the consultation on the Bill, because it has been debated widely not only at Committee but in the Chamber.”
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“Obviously, predicting the future does not fall under the Planning Service's remit. Who knows what the demand will be in another seven years’ time. <BR /> <BR />We do not want to regulate accommodation when there is already appropriate alternative regulation in place, and the Committee has been advised by representatives from Queen’s that this is in place for their accommodation. We also expect that any proposed student residencies from any educational establishments would also be subject to that regulation. <BR /> <BR />When determining the percentage of houses in a specific area or street that can be HMOs, as per the HMO subject plans, student accommodation, as long as it is managed by or on behalf of educational establishments, will not be taken into account. Technically speaking, that makes sense.”
“Under the proposed legislation, 353 current premises of student accommodation will be exempt for the definition of a HMO. Just over 300 of those are in Belfast and house around 3,300 students. Members will be aware that there are plans to increase the provision of student accommodation in Belfast. Indeed, there are currently 17 planning applications for Belfast, which equate to just over 8,000 bedrooms for student accommodation. <BR /> <BR />In preparation for the debate, it was interesting to read the HMO subject plan for Belfast, which was prepared in 2008. It stated:”
“We want to ensure that there are no unintended consequences from redefining HMOs. For example, a redefinition might officially reduce the number of HMOs in an area. Would that increase the potential for HMOs, as defined by the Bill, to increase in such an area? That is the fear that residents have, and we have to be clear how we intend to address it. To that end, definitions and defining the objective of the legislation in the Bill are essential. The Committee has engaged with the Department on that issue and will continue to do so over the next few weeks.”
“It can leave the indigenous residents feeling like strangers in their own community, but Members should bear in mind, of course, that this is ostensibly a planning issue and outside the scope of this Bill. We cannot look to this Bill to rectify the errors of the past or to set planning restrictions on HMOs in the future. <BR /> <BR />However, the Committee has noted the definition of HMO in the Bill and the exemptions from this definition.”
“The apparently hands-off management of properties by some landlords coupled with a lack of responsibility from some landlords and tenants alike, has given this particular housing type a bad name. As a result, to many, they are accommodation of last resort. That should not be the case. To my mind, this is evidence that light-touch regulation has failed, and the Bill offers the possibility to address those failings. <BR /> <BR />HMOs should be subjected to greater regulation than other housing, not only because of the higher risks associated with living in an HMO, but because of the negative impact that over-provision of HMOs in residential areas can have on communities. An overabundance of HMOs can change the nature of a residential area.”
“The proposed licensing system will mean that a person is acting illegally if they are not licensed to operate a property as a house in multiple occupation, and this is a fundamental change to the existing system of voluntary registration. <BR /> <BR />While the Committee welcomes the principles of the Bill, we have sought to ensure it will deliver a new, more robust system of regulation for houses in multiple occupation. HMOs are an important part of the housing mix in the North. With a seemingly deepening housing crisis, HMOs are an option for those who cannot rent or buy a property of their own. They provide affordable housing for a range of tenants, including students, migrant workers and single people on a low income, but there are issues with the standards of some HMOs.”
“I will still focus on the principles of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />As a result of the progress made by the Committee to date, I would assure Members that it would be our intention to conclude Committee Stage by the third week in January, so that we can realign the progress made with the processes of this House in short order. <BR /> <BR />To get to the point, the Committee supports the principles of the Bill. Its purpose is to enable better regulation of houses in multiple occupation, by introducing a system of licensing and new provisions about standards in housing, as well as streamlining the definition of a house in multiple occupation and clarifying existing law.”
“In fact, the Committee has concluded its evidence sessions, and, as with the Housing (Amendment) Bill, we find ourselves in a position where, in process terms, we are at Second Stage, but, in practical terms, we are already in discussion with the Department about changes to the Bill. That is not a satisfactory position, particularly if you are not a member of the Committee and therefore have no insight into the ongoing discussions. But, given the time pressures on the legislative programme, had we not taken this approach, we would be facing the possibility of not completing this Bill on time. That was the stark reality. However, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle, I do not intend to try to turn this into a de facto Consideration Stage by going into every detail that we have so far addressed — even if you were inclined to allow it.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for bringing the Houses in Multiple Occupation Bill to Second Stage. <BR /> <BR />The Committee for Social Development received a pre-introductory briefing from the Department on 14 May 2015. Officials provided an overview of the Bill, and members raised initial queries and comments in relation to various aspects of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Since then, in an effort to make progress in advance of the Bill reaching Second Stage, despite obstacles outside of the Committee’s control that prevented it from reaching Second Stage until now, the Committee has taken evidence from a range of stakeholders on a wide range of issues, as well as from the Department.”
“Go raibh maith agat. I thank the Minister for his answer. However, he knows that councils are undertaking a financial impact review that they anticipate will reveal costs in excess of £100 million. How can he help towards meeting related costs to help them get over this hurdle?”
“It agreed, however, that it would be prudent to bring a motion to the Assembly to extend the Committee Stage of the Bill by four days to Friday 15 January 2016. This would allow an additional meeting after recess for the Committee to deal with unforeseen circumstances.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. The Committee Stage of the Housing (Amendment) Bill began on 10 November 2015 and is due to conclude on 11 January 2016. A Cheann Comhairle, I stated at the Second Stage that, during the recent period of uncertainty, the Committee was prudent and prioritised the Department’s legislative programme within its work programme. With the assistance of the Department and, in particular, our stakeholders, we embarked on a call for evidence in advance of Committee Stage to ensure that there would be sufficient time for the Bill to proceed through the entire legislative process. For that reason, a Cheann Comhairle, the Committee aims to complete its consideration of the Bill before Christmas recess.”
“However, it is possible that some people will not realise that there is a difference between guidance and advice, and that advice, particularly in a financial context, means regulated financial advice, whereas guidance refers to more general information about terms or investment products. <BR /> <BR />Free guidance is merely the starting point. People need to have the right advice that is tailored to their particular circumstances. They need to understand that their decisions and actions have consequences. It will, therefore, be important to monitor the outworkings of the Bill, although it may take a number of years to understand fully whether it has produced greater stability in pension outcomes for the consumer. <BR /> <BR />The Committee for Social Development supports the Pension Schemes Bill.”
“It is also probably fair to say that pensions are something of a mystery to most people. In order to make the right decision about pension plans, people must get meaningful and understandable advice. It may be an attractive proposition, for example, to be able to access one’s pension pot from the age of 55, which the Bill, along with the Taxation of Pensions Act 2014, facilitates, but that must be done only after considering the appropriate guidance and taking proper advice. It is, therefore, welcome that people can avail themselves of the free guidance from Pension Wise throughout the network of 19 citizens advice bureaux here.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill will facilitate the development of new types of pension provision that can provide greater certainty about what people can expect from their occupational pension. The Bill will also allow greater risk sharing: the risk may be shared among members so that schemes providing collective benefits may provide more stable outcomes than the individual defined contribution schemes currently available. That should allow greater protection for pensions from fluctuations in markets. <BR /> <BR />It is fair to say that we all know that pension provision is something that we should plan for. Actuaries inform us that we are living longer, that pension funds are under strain and that people have to start saving earlier, hence the raft of pension legislation over the last few years.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many, if not all, of the private pension schemes that operate here are based in Britain, and the Committee was cognisant of the potential limitations in effecting change to the Bill. The Committee, therefore, took the view that it was necessary to ensure that people here with private pensions could avail themselves of the changes as soon as possible and seek advice as early as possible in order to plan for their retirement. <BR /> <BR />The Committee appreciates the importance of the Bill to ensuring that any new products that the pensions industry develops are also available here and are subject to appropriate regulation. The new regime will require regulations to be in place before April 2016 to ensure that adequate safeguards and protections are in place.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill to the House for its Final Stage. <BR /> <BR />While the issue of pensions is a devolved matter, as Members know, the Bill was granted accelerated passage. However, in supporting accelerated passage, the Committee noted that, in the case of this Bill, which relates to private pensions, there is a single regulatory regime that operates here and in Britain. The successful passage of the Bill will ensure that the Pensions Regulator, the Pensions Ombudsman and the Pension Protection Fund continue to facilitate compliance and enforcement in the pensions industry here.”
“A number of groups have informed me that the departure from the way it was done in the past has hit many of them, especially in my constituency.”
“Again, NICVA stated that, whilst the voluntary and community sector is committed to high-quality training provision, meeting that very specific requirement is difficult because of monetary costs, the time commitment for tutors to attend the training as well as to deliver the programme and the capacity at UU for the course, given the numbers of tutors involved in ESF. The policy also applies to third-party organisations that the voluntary and community sector might bring in to provide certain industry-specific training such as on health and safety. I have spoken to a number of groups —”
“They would have been informed that the method of payment was on the verge of putting many groups to the wall and that fulfilling the 10% capacity requirement was making life really difficult for groups that were owed money. <BR /> <BR />It was interesting to read that there are three requirements for the new social fund programme, which, it was said, combine to undermine the capacity of the ESF programme to deliver its stated aims. It was stated that it is important to note that each of the requirements did not come from the EC but from DEL itself. There is a requirement that tutors providing training as part of the ESF have to undertake a teaching qualification at the Ulster University or another equivalent high-level academic qualification or be registered to do so.”
“It beggars belief that two Departments can handle elements of administrating payments of European funding so differently. You would have thought that the Department for Employment and Learning would have cast a net to see whether there was good practice in other Departments. If it had done so, that problem would, hopefully, have been solved. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned that no one thought of contacting organisations like NICVA or the broad women's sector to ask its advice on the matter. We talk a lot about partnership and working closer together. Had those in the Department asked for advice, assistance or help, they would have no doubt been pointed in the right direction.”
“Groups were told that they had to show that they had the financial capacity to deal with the new system of payments, but many could not do so because they were not allowed to hold substantial amounts of money and many were owed considerable amounts of money by the Department. NICVA said that some organisations were owed almost £1 million, and others in the region of £300,000. Many, including charities, were borrowing from banks or using overdrafts to cover the costs of money owed to them from government. <BR /> <BR />NICVA argued that the Department for Employment and Learning should have adopted the DETI policy of ensuring its payment of the ERDF element of the structural funds, which has a target of 35 days from the claim being submitted to payment in the bank. The argument is that that should be the standard for the ESF also.”
“In a paper supplied to us by NICVA, it commended the Department for working hard to meet the date for the programme to begin at the start of the new financial year, but also spoke of departmental officials being under severe pressure in trying to close the old ESF programme and open a new one simultaneously. It stated that a key issue raised was that many organisations were owed a considerable amount of money for work that they had already carried out. When NICVA spoke to the many groups applying for ESF funding, they all talked of confusion, with little in the way of information coming from the Department.”
“For many in the community and voluntary sector, the process of applying for what was a new programme and meeting the criteria had many hurdles. Many were disappointed.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I support the motion. I thank the researchers and the likes of NICVA and others that sent us information that, along with the experience that we have all gone through in Committee concerning the process, probably informs most of what we are saying today. <BR /> <BR />The motion speaks of the important role that the European social fund has played in the delivery of essential services and support for the most vulnerable. The European social fund, in delivering essential support and services to vulnerable people in the North, recognises the challenges faced by the voluntary and community sector in the administration of the current and previous programmes. The motion goes on to call on the Department:”
“If the Minister for Social Development brought a similar proposal to increase funding for the building of social housing, would the Finance Minister agree to it? If there is a run at Christmas, would more money be made available for those who need crisis loans to help them over Christmas?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her statement to the House this morning and, especially, for the measures in the agreement that will help those most in need in society. Sammy Douglas touched on part of the statement, and there was a debate last week around the November monitoring round. There were some concerns, and one was about the £1·5 million reduction in the social fund, especially in the mouth of Christmas, when there is usually a run of people seeking crisis loans, but also the allocation to co-ownership. There is a waiting list of 600 for co-ownership, but, for social housing, there is a waiting list of 40,000, with 20,000 people in housing stress.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I accept and appreciate that there are many difficulties in this, but can he assure us that he will do all within his power to try to ensure that consultancy posts are filled to meet the demand in the Mater Hospital?”
“It is also crucial to look at having a wrap-around package that puts the onus on housing providers to give full support to the people they are moving. At present, that is virtually non-existent. These are all important issues when they are all put together, and, whilst this is a short Bill, it will have a dramatic impact and will allow housing providers to deal with things more competently.”
“I think that the question of information-sharing protocols being brought in will, for the first time, bring housing associations into the loop and allow them to act. <BR /> <BR />Many of us are aware of incidences in the past where somebody may have been guilty of severe antisocial behaviour in one community in a constituency and, because of some block on information sharing, was moved to another part of the constituency, and that led to difficulties in that community. <BR /> <BR />One of the difficulties that we need to take on board when we are doing this is that, while we need to deal with antisocial behaviour, it is sometimes so wide that it takes in people who may suffer from mental illness or serious addiction problems.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I would like to start off by saying that, whilst the Bill is short, its content will have an impact right across the board. For too long, we have been talking in this House about the impact that empty homes have had on many communities across the North and the need for us to get our act together not only to identify them but to do something about them. The Bill, when it is passed, will help us along the road to doing that. For all of us, when we are out during elections in our constituencies and communities, one of the main issues raised with us at all times is the ever-growing difficulties with antisocial behaviour and how it is dealt with.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Many areas throughout the North are eagerly awaiting urban villages. Will you outline whether some are closer to taking off than others? Has any time frame been set that will give people confidence that they will take place?”
“Go raibh míle maith agat. I thank the Minister for his answer thus far. The issue is certainly getting worse in many communities across the North. What type of strategy has the Minister put in place with other Departments and agencies to try to deal effectively with this most serious of problems?”
“There are many other aspects of his Ministry that affect the most vulnerable in society, such as dealing with deprivation and other issues that come up in Committee. It is time to put an end to this nonsense and get down to the real business, which is protecting the people out there who need protection.”
“<BR /> <BR />The DUP said quite a lot about the perceived delays in the recent Red Sky inquiry, which the Chair challenged. At that time, he said that we needed to be able to get back to dealing with the serious question of housing and all its aspects, including the crisis in new build, social housing, the future structures that will guide housing over the next 30 years and the serious flaws in the housing selection scheme that condemn people to lengthy waits for housing. In my constituency, over 4,000 people are on the waiting list, which impacts socially on many families in hostels or in overcrowded conditions. The absence of the Minister for Social Development is denying me, as an MLA, the right to question him on those matters.”
“Surely that has been denied to Members. Ministers are not available to the Chamber or to Committees so that MLAs can tackle and challenge them. One can take the Housing (Amendment) Bill, which deals with antisocial behaviour and information-sharing protocols: it could be lost because of the absence of the Minister for Social Development. My colleague Alex Maskey, the Chair of the Committee for Social Development, has done two things to try to ensure that Bills are kept going. He has called the senior official to the Committee to give us an RD — a rundown — of what is happening, what decisions have been made and how the Department is dealing with the Bill. He has demanded that someone attend the Committee weekly to keep it informed on the decisions that have been made.”
“Surely those two aspects of public life have been upset by the activities of the DUP. Many Members have been denied the opportunity to question Ministers on aspects of their work, and the smooth passage of legislation has been affected. <BR /> <BR />One of the seven principles of public life, under the heading "Accountability", states:”
“The Pledge of Office states that Ministers will:”
“Those include key performance targets and objectives being met. That is in the Pledge of Office, and there are other things in the ministerial code of conduct:”
“Since 10 September, the House has been held to ransom by this disruptive practice. There is no logic to what the DUP is doing. Its only objective seems to be to disrupt the normal working of the Assembly. That has had serious implications for the smooth running of business. It has delayed the passage of important legislation. <BR /> <BR />A Minister must:”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I support the motion. A lot of sensible stuff has been said here today, especially about the consequences of the resignations. Take the Minister for Social Development and probably the rest: he has resigned five times since 10 September. The DUP has taken a silly position on resigning, which has not only made this place a laughing stock but left everyone in the House open to ridicule. Its picking and choosing of when its Ministers are in and when they are out not only makes life difficult for the business of this place but impacts on its constituents. <BR /> <BR />There does not seem to have been a pattern to Ministers' time spent in office. Some remain in office longer than others. Does that indicate that there is a difference of opinion in the ranks of the DUP?”
“I appreciate what you are saying. However, if you cast your mind back to last week's meeting, when the issue of private landlords arose, it was one of the issues that gelled everybody. Stewart questioned the witnesses at length. Any time that the issue has come up, people have talked about minimal legislation. Rather than grasping the nettle and bringing in strong legislation to bring us into line with other housing providers, we are missing a beat and putting the issue on the long finger.”
“We need to grasp the nettle now and deal with this sector as soon as possible.”
“There are still those who provide poor accommodation and threaten the tenant with eviction for asking for repairs to be carried out. There are still those who ignore all requests by their tenants for help, and there are still those who will intimidate and evict a person without any fear of consequences. <BR /> <BR />Some in the disability sector have said that they would like the option to go into the private rented sector because the accommodation would be conveniently close to family or carers, but the vast majority of private rented accommodation is not disabled friendly. In fact, this sector has an atrocious record of provision of housing suitable for people with disabilities. We had the opportunity to deal with this in some of the previous legislation but failed to do so.”
“These notices were issued because disrepair was deemed to be causing conditions that are bad for health, such as damp and dry rot. Under the law, private rental properties must meet the basic minimum fitness standards such as ensuring that a property is structurally stable, has adequate lighting, heating and ventilation, and is free from damp that could damage health. Many socially rented houses cannot even reach these low standards. <BR /> <BR />It is a fact that the sector remains, by and large, unregulated. There are those in the sector who just see the house that they provide as a moneymaker and have little concern for the person who lives in poor conditions. There are still those who do not provide rent books or tenancy agreements.”
“I believe that the Minister was serious about moving on a root-and-branch review of this sector, but time is rolling on, and still nothing has come to the Committee. That gives me no hope that this issue will be sorted out anytime soon. It sends out all the wrong messages to those who live in this sector. More than 130,000 units of accommodation are socially rented in this sector, which is more than the Housing Executive and housing associations combined. <BR /> <BR />From 2011, local councils carried out more than 15,000 inspections of private rental properties across the North. About two fifths of these inspections resulted in notices being issued, with nuisance abatement or public health notices making up the majority — more than 5,400.”
“<BR /> <BR />The payment of hundreds of millions of pounds to any other sector, Department or statutory body would not be tolerated. The fact that this sector is unregulated makes matters worse. We have all heard how community and voluntary sector organisations are hounded over small grants that they receive. They are heavily audited for amounts of several thousand pounds. Yet, here we have a sector that has only recently been compelled to register its properties and had to be forced into protecting tenants' deposits, which had been badly abused by many landlords and housing agents. <BR /> <BR />This is an issue that I have raised in the Chamber before. It is an issue that I have said needs to be reviewed.”
“OK; sorry about that, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />I also wish to speak about how they can ensure that their members liaise with local elected representatives and community representatives to make their communities a better place to live. <BR /> <BR />The very good landlords who provide good accommodation and have invested in their stock need encouragement and help to deal with the problems and difficulties that they face. There are many who would welcome dialogue to deal with these issues. However, there are also many who provide poor housing and have little concern for their tenants' safety and welfare. In fact, many of the tenants who I have spoken to over the years only tolerate the conditions and abuse because, otherwise, they would be on the street with nowhere to go.”
“In fact, I will be meeting a representative from the Landlords Association tomorrow to discuss some of the serious problems faced by my constituents including conditions, misuse and sale of drugs, all-night parties, attacks and intimidation from their neighbours. I also wish to speak about how —”
“We still have people coming to our advice centres who had paid deposits on properties but had them withheld on leaving. <BR /> <BR />A, chairde, there are many in the private rented sector who provide high-quality, decent houses for their tenants. Without them, the housing crisis would be much worse. I recently met people from the private rented sector to talk about problems in my West Belfast constituency and was impressed by the measures that they have taken to deal with antisocial behaviour. They informed me that they have over 5,000 homes on their books, both as landlord in their own right and as an agent, which is more than most housing associations.”