Fra McCann
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I want to thank everyone for the help that they have given me over the years, which has made my time here a lot easier. I also thank Assembly Members for the friendship, help and assistance that they have given me, from right across the Assembly Floor. I would love to say that I will miss everybody here; I probably will at times.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. <BR /> <BR />It was interesting to listen to Robbie, who has first-hand experience of what firefighters go through. To have someone like that speaking in the debate is invaluable.”
“The statistics tell us, as Members have said, that firefighters are four times more likely to develop cancer due to their regular exposure to pollutants in the work that they do on behalf of society. Further preventative measures are obviously needed, and that is what the Sinn Féin amendment addresses.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Assembly needs to send a message that that is not an acceptable way to treat front-line workers who put their lives on the line day and daily.”
“Better decontamination measures and modern, accessible facilities will improve the working lives of firefighters and help to reduce their risk of cancer and other illnesses. <BR /> <BR />I thank the DUP for bringing the motion to the Assembly, and, in conclusion, the Sinn Féin amendment strengthens what is a good motion.”
“I would have thought that such organisations, which play a vital role in local government, would have been able to tap into the consultation on the Bill, because it has been debated widely not only at Committee but in the Chamber.”
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“Tom Buchanan said that it was inconceivable that, in this day and age, that imbalance exists in the make-up of the workforce and that it needs to be tackled. He spoke about good practice in the USA that we can learn from and maybe look at setting up similar bodies here. <BR /> <BR />Seán Rogers said that the Assembly discussed STEM some weeks ago, concerned at the worrying lack of take-up of STEM subjects. The North is experiencing a brain drain; demand for STEM jobs cannot be met. There is a need to bring more women through the STEM process. <BR /> <BR />Sandra Overend said that responsibility lay not only with the Employment and Learning Minister but with the Education Minister. The motion could deliver the much-needed strategy. The Women in STEM project is working to promote more women in STEM.”
“She commended the South West College for the work that it has carried out on STEM.”
“<BR /> <BR />The motion is trying to ensure that there is a joined-up approach taken to tackling the serious imbalance of men over women in the STEM sectors, and it argues for the Minister, in conjunction with his Executive colleagues, to produce an action plan that specifically addresses the issue of gender imbalance. <BR /> <BR />I will now deal with some of the comments made by Members. The Minister dealt extensively with quite a lot of them and even encouraged Members to speak to their party colleagues at the Executive table to do something about the issue. Bronwyn McGahan spoke at length about the need to tackle the conditions that impact on women taking STEM subjects. She said that the will exists to move on the matter but that it will take the Executive as a whole to be a part of the process if the situation is to move on.”
“I read recently that some of the new jobs that the Executive have fought hard to bring to the North could be impacted on by the lack of experience in STEM subjects. The Minister talked several weeks ago about the importance of STEM to the local economy and the need to address the gender imbalance in STEM sectors, with men outnumbering women by three to one. I have read the answers to a number of questions that have been asked of the Minister in the House on the matter. I have browsed a number of reports on STEM, and I welcome the Minister's commitment to tackling the issue of gender imbalance in the STEM sectors. He gave a speech to a conference on 10 March organised by Semta NI to celebrate the success of women in STEM in addressing gender imbalance.”
“He said that, when he went into primary schools to speak to children about the importance of science, they played an active role in his presentations but that, when he left, the traditional thought process of many teaching staff re-geared young minds to a different road to travel when it came to academic importance to one's future career. <BR /> <BR />I have heard the Minister speak about the need to teach STEM subjects, but he has also said that STEM should feature prominently as part of the curriculum for all students. There is no doubt in my mind that he is totally committed to the need not only to promote STEM subjects but to equip students to meet the needs of a changing world of employment. <BR /> <BR />All reports on the provision of STEM see it as crucial for our future needs.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his words today. Over this past while, the Committee for Employment and Learning has seen the teaching of STEM subjects as an essential part of the curriculum. We see them as an element of learning that had in the past not matched what were seen as the more prestigious roads to travel when seeking higher levels of education — subjects such as law, teaching and medicine. <BR /> <BR />We have argued that the earlier that you get people interested in what are called STEM subjects, the more likely it is that children will buy into these subjects. We have heard it said in Committee that eager young minds are enthusiastic when it comes to learning different subjects. We heard from a scientist who gave evidence to the Committee on the question of careers.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. The Minister spoke about perceptions, and there are perceptions out there that this whole process has been skewed to the advantage of statutory bodies, departmental bodies and major groups and against the smaller groups that cannot meet some of the regulations that not only Europe laid down but his Department laid down. If there is an undue impact on the women's sector, would the Minister not be better calling an equality impact assessment to ensure that we do not lose this sector altogether?”
“I think that the Minister has opinions on all other agencies carrying out investigations. Does this point up the need for the creation of the HIU to address legacy issues, particularly murders carried out by state forces?”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. There were concerns about the previous scheme and this scheme in how it will work and the jobs it will provide. Can the Minister give us an assurance that it will be heavily monitored and that, if there are problems, the Department will move right away to ensure that things are fixed?”
“Did you try to have any input to the Ad Hoc Committee to put your concerns to it? You seem to have waited until the last minute when the glare of publicity is on it to bring these matters forward.”
“I understand, and I say again that it is your right as a Member of the House to bring amendments to the Bill. If you get support for it, that is well and good. My understanding was that Sinn Féin approached you about possibly signing up to the petition of concern to bring the Bill down. You said that you could not do it, but I think that you said that you would do it for the bedroom tax but not all of the rest of the elements. That was my understanding. Secondly, when the Bill was being scrutinised in Committee, did you ever think of going and putting to it the Green Party position or your own opposition?”
“That has led to tens of thousands of people losing their incapacity benefit and employment and support allowance. We have also seen the SDLP implement the local housing allowance, which, on its watch, led to thousands of the most vulnerable losing out on housing benefit in the first stages of welfare reform. <BR /> <BR />My colleague Mickey Brady touched on Steven Agnew's amendments. I think that he echoed what I would have said, so I will not bore people by repeating his words, but I will stress again that Mr Agnew has had many opportunities to raise those issues and has not. It is his right to try to amend what he likes, but it is our right to highlight his inconsistencies as we see them. <BR /> <BR />I support the amendments in the name of the Minister and oppose the other amendments.”
“It is my understanding that, if someone is sanctioned, they will be given notification of the sanction. The same goes for amendment No 8, which is to clause 47, page 25, line 40; amendment No 9, which is to clause 47, page 26, line 29; and amendment No 10, which is to clause 47, page 28, line 12. Notification will be supplied to people of the sanctions that they face. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4 is to clause 30, which is under the heading "Delegation and contracting out". Sinn Féin has always been opposed to the privitisation of public services. I am again surprised that the SDLP raised that matter, given its record in the last mandate of privatising medical services, which saw Atos arrive on the scene and saw the hated work capability assessment being put in place.”
“What we got was an agreement that mitigates the worst excesses of welfare reform. We argued against the three-year sanction and were able to get it reduced to 18 months. What makes this debate difficult is that the SDLP agreed to a two-year sanction and then thought that it could pull the wool over people's eyes by supporting the six-month proposal from Steven Agnew. <BR /> <BR />Let us look at the proposed amendments. Amendment No 2, which is to clause 26, page 13, line 14, is on the provision of explanatory documentation and sanctions. Amendment No 3 is to clause 27, page 13, line 36, and it is my understanding that claimants will be made aware in writing of when sanctions will be applied. Through amendment No 3, the SDLP has again sought to amend clause 26, again seeking documentation.”
“I would prefer it if sanctions were not being implemented. In fact, this party is on record as having that position when we argued against the Attwood sanctions, but we were part of a five-party agreement, which we have stood by. Did we get everything we wanted? No, we did not. Would I have liked to have got more in the agreement? Yes, I would.”
“I am just coming to the amendments. Sorry. <BR /> <BR />It was an agreement that excluded much of what was achieved on 19 December. You have to ask yourself what is it that the SDLP wants to achieve through its amendments? Is it to make things better for people? The answer must be no, given that it signed up for much less on 17 December, which is something that it still refuses to admit to people. <BR /> <BR />Let us take the amendments and clauses on sanctions. Had it been from any other party, I might have said, "Well, they are sincere on this matter", but the Attwood sanctions brought in during the last mandate, have, from 2011, seen over 80,000 people being reported for sanctions and 28,000 people actually sanctioned. Why did they not ask for people who fell foul of those sanctions to receive documentation?”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I support the amendments put forward by the Minister, and I oppose those in the names of Steven Agnew and the SDLP. I am sure you will be glad to hear that I do not intend to speak for long, as I believe that all that needs to be said was said when the five party leaders signed an agreement on 19 December, which, I believe, protects the most vulnerable in our society from benefit loss. That was a far different agreement from the one agreed two days before. It was an agreement —”
“It existed before partition and after partition. You are holding up Queen's Island and the rope works as a symbol of job provision and wealth, yet they were the biggest discriminators of our community in the state.”
“Thank you very much, Minister. I outlined today what my thoughts have always been on sanctions and how they should be dealt with. There was a five-party agreement before Christmas that some parties have opted to walk away with. Regardless of what you would have come up with here today or yesterday, Steven would have opposed every element of it, and it is his right to do so. Did it not concern you today that a Member of the SDLP supported Steven Agnew's stance on the 26-week thing, even though they had agreed on 17 December to a two-year sanction?”
“What really concerns me is listening again to two Members — Dolores Kelly and Robin Swann — talk about what they would accept. They forget that, on 17 December, in the four-party discussions, they had accepted two years as the maximum, yet Dolores Kelly is saying today that she wants it to be reduced to 26 weeks. Maybe she can explain that. I do not want to labour the point. The facts are there, and they speak for themselves. Sinn Féin went into this trying, as much as we can, to argue the principles that we stand for. Others came in with theirs, and there was a compromise. A partnership was forged, but people sought to walk away from that partnership. They need to stand up and be truthful and honest about why they have done that and not try to pull the wool over people's eyes in the House today.”
“Not at the minute. I will take it in a minute. I want to deal with some stuff. I remember when sanctions were first introduced in the House. We put up arguments in all the debates and tabled amendments. I think that they became known as the "Attwood sanctions", because, as a result of those, between 1 May 2011 and November 2013, 81,180 people were reported for sanctions. Of those, almost 27,000 people were sanctioned, probably with the loss of benefit. That is why we have been so severe in our arguments and in debates around the implementation of any type of sanction. <BR /> <BR />We went into discussions pre-Christmas. Did we get all that we wanted? No, we did not. What we did get was a compromise to allow the Bill to go through and the institutions to stay up.”
“We have to ensure that we get this right, certainly for the people who will be dealing with the information that is given out. <BR /> <BR />I noted what Robin said. I do not know whether he was criticising us for arguing at the recent talks for the cut to 18 months or criticising us for not saying that no sanctions at all should be applied. Perhaps he can tell us.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for answering some of the questions around sanctions and for putting people right. As Robin Swann said, it is no surprise that, for a long time, we have argued against the introduction of sanctions, especially in their most severe form of three years. We have been on record over many years in the House as saying that there needed to be a different approach taken. One of the reasons that we continually argued for that was to do with people who may be bipolar, people who suffer from other mental illnesses, the partially sighted and people with other disabilities, who sometimes may not understand the pages and pages that people get issued. When they go through them, all that there is on them is a date on which you have to turn up.”
“Pardon? Sorry, Chair. At that time, Martin McGuinness said what we all believed, but negotiations took place at the time which made life better for people in this place.”
“I think that there are a couple of things in what you said. Maybe what you should do is go and listen to a replay of this debate. People have been at pains to point out, yesterday and today, that the whole institutions were in danger of collapse. Are you saying that that would have been much more beneficial than coming to an agreement that protects people, when we could have faced the full implementation of the Welfare Reform Act 2012? <BR /> <BR />I used to give Mrs Kelly credit for a bit of wit, but what Martin McGuinness said in June and today are two completely different things. They have negotiated.”
“You did not need to check; you were there.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. When I got up, I asked if the "Minister" would give way, but Mickey reminded me that that was a while ago. I remember the debate on the introduction of local housing allowance very well. We raised a number of issues at Committee. I think that it might have been with Margaret Ritchie at the time. We said that quite a number of people would lose out and would have to pay more. A lot of them would be in the Member's constituency of West Belfast, in some of the more impoverished areas. It meant that people were paying more money for poor conditions and had to borrow money to make a top-up. I think that you are picking nits when you talk about the difference between a bedroom tax and what people were forced to pay extra in terms of the local housing allowance.”
“Those were interesting points. If you listened to Mrs Kelly earlier, it not only became a problem that it has not been removed, but even the mitigation has become the problem for her now also because it lasts only five or six years.”
“I understand your politics in all of this. Having listened to your debates and arguments, I know you have always argued in and around support for welfare reform, regardless of the consequences. <BR /> <BR />I have also listened to the SDLP talk about the amendments. It is a party that entered into an agreement and then walked away from it when it got out the door. People talk about work capability assessments, but it is the party that initiated those and has been responsible for tens of thousands of people with physical and mental disabilities being taken off benefits, yet it stands here today saying that it is championing their cause.”
“— of bringing more land into use in that constituency. The Matthew stopline that was drawn up 30 years ago has been moved and no longer exists. I ask the Minister to consider that and move towards doing something about it.”
“It is a matter of urgency that the Minister and the Minister for Social Development sit down and look at ways —”
“I thank the Minister for his response. He will know that my constituency has the worst housing waiting list: over 3,000 people are waiting for housing. Hostels in and around the general Belfast area are packed with people from that constituency. It has the highest number of pensioners and young people waiting for houses, but it is continually squeezed by the lack of land.”
“I understand what you are saying, but I find it rather strange, given that it was your Minister who introduced the legislation that brought Atos into power. When it was appointed, there was the privatisation of medical support services, and, in the first year, from June 2011 to 2012, 13,740 claimants were removed by Atos. It was your Minister who brought it in, yet you are standing here today crying crocodile tears over it.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat. I thank the Minister for his response. Will ICT subjects such as computer coding be streamlined in schools?”
“Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I did not say that. I said that it was the biggest issue that is affecting people in my constituency, not the House.”
“It is ranked top in 'The Guardian's' specialist college performance list, which described it as a higher education pioneer because of its liberal arts programme. <BR /> <BR />The Minister for Employment and Learning totally ignores those facts. He also ignores the ability of St Mary's graduates to find employment. He excludes the social and economic impact that his decision will have on this constituency. He is so caught up in his ideological opposition to the Catholic ethos of St Mary's that he will go to any lengths to ensure its closure. I urge him to take on board the growing number of voices speaking in support of St Mary's and pull back from this attack on St Mary's and the constituency that I represent.”
“<BR /> <BR />We advised Stephen Farry that this Executive of ours had travelled far and wide to bring jobs to the North. For the sake of just over £1 million investment, he will throw away hundreds of jobs. Where is the sense in that? It was obvious from yesterday's meeting that he was not listening to the arguments being put to him. He seemed determined to continue his crusade against St Mary's, regardless of the consequences. He is more concerned about implementing Alliance Party policy than about those who will suffer the impact of the decision to remove the premia. For a number of years, he has tried to find ways to close St Mary's and Stranmillis. That is not because it is a bad university. In fact, its excellence is recognised throughout the world.”
“We advised that, if he does not change the course he has set himself on, not only will over 160 people in St Mary's lose their job but that could be tripled in the surrounding community with the closure of businesses, which could add to the decline of this part of west Belfast. <BR /> <BR />At a time when this part of west Belfast is being promoted as a Gaeltacht quarter, a place where the Irish language is treasured and spoken, where culture is rich and is practised daily, the institution of St Mary's is to the fore in providing the teaching base to ensure that the Irish language is taught and promoted in a growing number of Irish nursery, primary and secondary schools. It is an institution that, in the past years, has integrated itself with the heart of the west Belfast community.”
“For the past 115 years, it has provided the economic clout for the community to grow. For the constituency that I live in and represent, this is the biggest issue on people's minds. West Belfast without an institution like St Mary's is unthinkable. In many ways, it could be the last straw for the surrounding community, which faces serious social deprivation, high unemployment, poor health and an economic base of small businesses, such as shops, restaurants and others, that will not survive the closure of St Mary's. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, we had a meeting with the Minister for Employment and Learning and stressed the urgency of reversing his decision to withdraw the premia.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank my colleague Jennifer McCann for bringing this crucial issue to the Floor of the House today. St Mary's is rooted in west Belfast. It grew with the population of west Belfast. When it opened its doors 115 years ago, it brought with it hope for an impoverished Catholic population. It offered the tools to ensure that education would be delivered to a Catholic population that, at that time in our history, found Belfast to be a cold house for housing, employment and education. St Mary's changed that, and many thousands of young people have advanced educationally because this institution provided the teachers to educate. It is historically engrained in the west Belfast community, not only educationally but economically.”
“It is about an issue that has come up not only in the Assembly but certainly in Committee. First, quite a lot of the developments through public realm works have been excellent in many cities and have done a lot to enhance cities and towns. When the powers are passed to councils, what needs to be built in is the fact that consultation should stretch to people with disabilities and the partially sighted who have serious problems trying to negotiate roads and footpaths because of blockages.”
“I do not disagree with what you have said about sourcing proper and cheap heating for everybody, but surely it has to come as part of a package. Heating is not the only problem and difficulty where fuel poverty is concerned. There is also the escape of heat, so it is about ensuring that houses are properly insulated. It is about ensuring that the finance and resources ensure that there is a complete package of heating. Would you not share the view that they should go hand in hand?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. European moneys provide much needed assistance across the board. He said that DRD is on course to reach its target to increase draw down by 20%? When will that achieved?”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Does the Minister agree that an opportunity now exists to treat everyone with dignity and respect? I know that he has said that the recommendations have been accepted, but will he give an assurance that it will go one stage further and that they will be implemented?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his statement. I think that, when the final document comes out, we will all have a duty and an obligation to put our shoulder behind the wheel to ensure that we have a world-beating training and employment system for young people. The statement mentions people progressing into employment for further training sooner rather than later, but it also mentions those with additional needs. There is a 12-week consultation. Many groups work with people who are furthest away from achieving an apprenticeship. Can the Minister assure us that those groups will not be left out during the consultation period, that they will be spoken to and that what they have to say will be taken on board in forming the final document?”
“You must have the figures in front of you.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I appreciate and understand that there are occasions when conferences may be essential and may prove worthwhile. Will he give us a figure for the total cost of conferences to date?”
“<BR /> <BR />Much has been said over this past number of months about welfare reform, which has been injected into every discussion, mostly by the DUP. When people start talking about welfare reform, they should at least get the facts right and tell it as it is.”
“The aim of that draft directive, which has been stalled in the EU Council of Ministers for almost four years, is to strengthen women's rights by ensuring 20 weeks of fully paid maternity leave across the European Union and to ensure that women are protected on their return to work. The impasse has been caused by a blocking minority of states, made up of Ireland, Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, Sweden, Malta and Latvia. The directive also includes provision for paternity leave and special arrangements for working parents with disabled children. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin will continue to defend the rights of women and men to combine work and parenthood without discrimination in the labour market and in the social security systems.”
“<BR /> <BR />The argument for providing more generous maternity and paternity rights in the workplace is being won, with more and more employers realising the importance of assisting and retaining staff through the challenges of pregnancy and raising young children. However, we need to work harder to defend the rights of working parents, especially in the context of ageing societies and low birth rates. <BR /> <BR />I point to the recent situation in the European Parliament, where my party colleague Martina Anderson MEP and other MEPs who sit as part of the European United Left/Nordic Green Left group had to strongly defend women's rights to maternity leave after the European Commission moved to withdraw the maternity leave draft directive in July.”