Michelle McIlveen
Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Public confidence depends not only on effective enforcement but on enforcement being exercised fairly and consistently. <BR /> <BR />There is widespread concern across Northern Ireland about the condition of many of our lakes and rivers, and there are a vast number of factors that contribute to water quality challenges.”
“Although we support the overall direction of travel, I think that is appropriate to reflect on the concerns that have been raised and ensure that the legislation is proportionate, practical and capable of delivering its intended outcomes.”
“If we are therefore serious about improving our aquatic environment, every source of pollution must be addressed. New legislative powers are meaningful only if the Department has the resources, the expertise and the personnel necessary to implement them effectively.”
“There is, however, a need for accompanying clear guidance and support and for regulatory consistency and prompt decision-making. Delays, uncertainty and excessive bureaucracy will undoubtedly discourage investment and undermine confidence in the sector.”
“Subordinate legislation should not become a substitute for proper democratic accountability. Consultation and engagement must be undertaken before regulations are introduced, and I cannot overstate the need for stakeholder engagement. <BR /> <BR />I will now talk about the Bill's proposed enforcement powers.”
“The DUP broadly welcomes the Bill. As has been said, it provides an opportunity to modernise legislation that, in some areas, has remained largely unchanged for decades. The Bill strengthens the protection of our fisheries, improves the regulatory framework for aquaculture and enhances the management of our water environment.”
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“I welcome the Minister's comments. Obviously, events such as the Milk Cup have been receiving funding from DETI, and there has been an absence of substantial funding from DCAL. What discussions has she had with that Minister about events that would naturally fall within her Department?”
“In light of the concerns being expressed within area learning communities about the cost of transporting pupils between schools in support of the entitlement framework, is the Minister considering extending the use of bus passes around the concept of being able to use them during the school day?”
“Would he not be better redirecting what limited resources there are to the existing education system?”
“<BR /> <BR />Thirdly, I understand that, according to the fourth monitoring report of the assessment of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, although the overall initial teacher-education intake has been reduced by 32% since 2005-06, intake for the IME sector has increased by 109% since 2007-08. That is despite there being only one outstanding permanent teaching post to be filled in the whole of the IME sector in November 2013. Therefore, that is 46 IME teacher-training places and almost no posts available in the Irish-medium sector. <BR /> <BR />My question is why? Why, given the current budgetary constraints, will the Minister waste yet more money and time on providing school places that are not used and training teachers that are not required for the Irish-medium sector?”
“Obviously, this is the first that Members have seen of this report and its recommendations. The Committee will obviously want to take some time to study it. <BR /> <BR />I suppose that what really surprised me about this is the context within which we are currently working. First, according to the recently published primary-school area plans, there are in the region of 500 vacant Irish-medium education (IME) school places in Belfast alone. That roughly equates to around one third of the total IME primary-school provision in the Belfast Board area. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, the Department also recently advised the Committee that the permanent secretary initiated the ministerial-direction mechanism as a consequence of concerns in respect of additional funding for transportation for an Irish-medium post-primary school.”
“I thank the Minister for his detailed remarks today. The education budget has been reduced by nearly 5%, and I appreciate that there has been some resource DEL allocation. What is the Minister's justification for lifting the protection which was previously afforded to the Department of Education?”
“I refer to the 6,410 parents from the Irish Republic who are receiving help in 2013-14, compared with around only 895 parents from Northern Ireland. Does the Minister believe that the current arrangements at Middletown provide good value for money for Northern Ireland taxpayers?”
“According to the 2013 annual report of the Middletown Centre for Autism, this body receives roughly equal levels of funding, £673,000 from DE and £690,000 from DES. Can the Minister advise whether he plans to address what appears to be a disparity in the provision of services to parents and, indeed, professionals by Middletown?”
“— but I do have a grasp of basic mathematics. Mr Kinahan referred earlier to a DUP/Sinn Féin carve up. Simple addition tells us that, if the DUP had been in favour of ESA, that is what we would have today. If the DUP and Sinn Féin had been on the same page on the first or even the second ESA Bill, why would we be standing here today debating a third? Unlike the current UUP spokesperson, I was on the Committee scrutinising the previous two Bills. At no stage was there anything constructive by way of proposals from that party.”
“Nothing I heard from that party's current spokesperson today has changed that view. The revisionist approach being taken by the UUP today is worthy of a republican historian. I may have been a politics and history teacher — Mr Agnew in the corner will be able to account for that as a former pupil —”
“I thank Mr Storey for his comments. I think that he will agree with me when I say that the Bill is not yet the finished article. Work will need to be done on it, but we have come a long way from the previous ESA Bills. I will support the Bill at Second Reading, but I hope to see the issues that I have raised being addressed. <BR /> <BR />I will just make a final comment about the comments that were made in the earlier debate by Mr Kinahan. I sat on the Education Committee from 2007 until last year. I have had the experience of numerous UUP education spokesmen on that Committee. I also experienced the two previous Education Bills as they came through the Committee. Nothing that I heard from any of those spokesmen ever filled me with any confidence that they actually knew what they were talking about.”
“It has been incredibly difficult for those schools with the uncertainty that exists above them. I hope that the passage of the Bill will afford them the certainty that they crave.”
“I pay tribute to the work that they have done in the delivery of education, particularly during the many years of uncertainty and upheaval that they have had to endure. To undertake their work in such trying circumstances is a tribute to their fortitude and diligence. Periods of change are always difficult, but in circumstances in which that change has been mishandled at a departmental level, to the extent that the boards have been chronically understaffed for so long, I think that the staff require a particular note of gratitude. Although I say "departmental level", I may want to look towards the political end of that spectrum, too. <BR /> <BR />Front line services have also been under significant pressure. Praise needs to be given to the staff and head teachers of schools across Northern Ireland at this time of transition.”
“While I am more than content with the representation being given to the controlled sector as of right, as the make-up of the board will broadly reflect existing boards, it is difficult to dismiss out of hand the arguments in favour of the voluntary grammars having representation on the board. That is a sector that teaches 32·9% of our post-primary children and owns a huge acreage of the schools estate. For such a sector not to have a voice on the board, which will be dealing with area-planning issues, appears bizarre. I would like to hear the Minister's thoughts on that. <BR /> <BR />In all of this, when we talk at a high level about reorganisation and budget restraint, it can be too easy to forget about the staff in the existing ELBs.”
“The former Chair of the Education Committee Mervyn Storey deserves a great deal of praise — it is not because he is sitting directly behind me — for advocating so strongly on behalf of the controlled sector during his tenure to ensure that it was treated fairly, which certainly would not have been the case under the proposed ESA. Some parties in the Chamber may lament the demise of the ESA Bills, but my party does not. <BR /> <BR />There will undoubtedly be a great deal of discussion around the Chamber about who should be represented on the board of the new authority.”
“For many years, too many layers of bureaucracy ate up the budget, and that must be avoided in the new body. <BR /> <BR />I certainly hope that all parties involved in today's debate have taken the opportunity to liaise with those who matter in education. I, my predecessor, my party colleagues on the Education Committee and my wider party colleagues have all taken that opportunity. We have made an informed decision to support the principles of the Bill, and we will continue to make those informed decisions as the Bill progresses. It is not ESA or ESA lite. It is what the sector wants. <BR /> <BR />As I said in the earlier debate, that is what the DUP recognised back in 2008 when we put forward strikingly similar proposals.”
“It is important that what is being created is an efficient, streamlined and effective organisation that is capable of delivering savings and, most importantly, services. I would not like to think that the Minister is rushing through the legislation with no view of how the final organisation will look or be effective. <BR /> <BR />Obviously, savings are important, but this all needs to be for the greater good of education. It needs to be recognised in the House that the creation of a single authority is what the key stakeholders want and realise is required for education. The change is needed to create the mechanism that should allow the maximum amount of the budget to go directly to the education of our children. I want to ensure that that is the case.”
“<BR /> <BR />After a number of false dawns, the disasters of the first two Bills, and the uncertainty and mistrust caused by the Department's handling of that legislation, it is important that this legislation is unambiguously fair. We also need to be assured that the Bill will deliver savings. It should not be one board run as five; there need to be meaningful savings. <BR /> <BR />I mentioned in the earlier debate that the existing ELBs have been limping along for some considerable time. The hundreds of voluntary severances, in conjunction with the vacancy controls that have been in place, have impacted dramatically on their efficiency and operability. It is important to stabilise the staffing arrangements. We are not seeing the structure or delivery mechanisms of the new organisation.”
“The recruitment processes for the appointment of the interim chief executive and the permanent appointment need to enjoy the full protection of a robust public appointments process. They must be open recruitment processes. <BR /> <BR />The Minister told the Committee that he was minded to appoint a chief executive for a set period, and then the board would make an appointment. I would like that to be reflected in the Bill. I would not like the first chief executive to end up in post for 10 or 15 years without any input from the board. I want to see the board's involvement in the process at the earliest possible opportunity.”
“For the wider community to have confidence in the new authority, it is paramount that a clear message of independence is made. It is important that the appointment of the chief executive is an open and transparent process, and not a coronation. <BR /> <BR />The Bill provides that the first chief executive is to be appointed by the Department. The Minister has explained that the rationale for that had to do with the timescales surrounding the appointment of the board. The timescale, as we have been aware through the accelerated passage debate, is understandably tight, but the preferred option, from my perspective, is the appointment of an interim chief executive, with the final appointment being made by the board of the authority when it has been established.”
“All that the controlled sector is asking for, and all that we ask for on its behalf, is equality. I would like the Minister to bring forward proposals in order to allow the controlled sector and Members to assess whether they are fit for purpose. <BR /> <BR />The Minister needs to appreciate that a failure to place this body on a footing on a par with other sectoral bodies will cause it internal difficulties. That is particularly true of recruitment, especially to senior posts. The uncertain nature of the body is not conducive to recruiting the best people for those posts. <BR /> <BR />The second key issue — the Minister is aware that I raised this with him at the Education Committee — is the appointment of the chief executive of the Education Authority.”
“We, as a party, are not looking for the creation of a statutory body. I do not believe that anyone wants yet another statutory body to be created for education in Northern Ireland. However, unless the body is placed on a robust footing, the consequence will be great distrust and unease in the controlled sector. It is essential that this sector is afforded equal treatment, which has been a recurrent theme for my party over the last seven years. <BR /> <BR />The announcement of the body was welcomed across the sector, but that welcome has waned and is turning to distrust as the perception increases that the sector is once again being treated in a somewhat inferior fashion. The integrated sector, which educates only 7% of pupils, has robust underpinning for its sectoral body under the 1989 Order.”
“Up to this point, the Minister has talked a good game, but we need to see that assurance on paper.”
“It is to be hoped that the creation of this body will bring equality to the controlled sector, 25 years after other sectors were granted their support bodies. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister's comments today about how this sector will be supported, but it must not be a toothless organisation. It must have legislative underpinning and be specifically mentioned in the Bill. It is important that this is done, because the Minister has to appreciate that there is a lot of nervousness in the sector. It is a natural consequence of years of uncertainty hanging over education, particularly in the last seven years. The Minister previously gave a commitment that the funding of this body would be enshrined in the Bill. Again, at the Executive and in Committee, a commitment was given that there would be robust underpinning.”
“<BR /> <BR />Speaking as a DUP MLA, I want to say that this is a significantly less complicated Bill than were the two previous Bills, but it is no less significant. While the legislation does not see the establishment of an education and skills authority with broad, sweeping powers, it does see the dissolution of the five current boards and the creation of what is, essentially, a single education board. A number of issues require clarification as the Bill progresses. There is the issue of the controlled sector representative body. The announcement that there will be such a body is, of course, to be welcomed, and its establishment would merely right a wrong in education. The controlled sector has been shamefully ignored in this regard for far too long.”
“<BR /> <BR />As my predecessor in the Committee also said two years ago, any education Bill is usually yet another cause for consternation for many in the education sector: principals, teachers, boards of governors and others. Whatever way this Bill progresses, on behalf of the majority of Committee members, I hope that the House’s sober deliberations will provide certainty to those whom I have just mentioned and reassurance that we all have the best interests of school pupils and their parents at heart. I believe that the majority of Committee members feel that the Bill is simple and introduces very limited but important changes. The majority of Committee members, therefore, are probably just about content to support the Bill’s progress to Consideration Stage.”
“That said, I think that Members generally favour an incremental and agreed strategy, in contrast to what some characterised as the Department’s previous all-encompassing approach to educational administration, which was doomed to failure. <BR /> <BR />In taking things forward with the Education Authority, I hope that the Minister will give thought to those uncontroversial spin-offs identified from the previous legislation — for example, the options to improve autonomy for some controlled schools to allow them to appoint their own principals and perhaps hire a bursar to improve financial performance. In the longer term, perhaps the Bill may also allow for the simplification of what is a fairly complex and much-amended body of education legislation, the idea being to allow for a higher and commensurate level of delegation to schools.”
“This is of particular interest, because, unlike his ESA proposals, the Committee has not seen the detailed business case for the Education Authority. <BR /> <BR />To summarise: the argument underpinning the Bill appears to be simplicity. By simply generally replicating existing ELB arrangements in the new Education Authority, it appears that the Minister hopes that this will prove to be uncontroversial and, therefore, acceptable. The Minister indicated to the Committee and has repeated today that he believes that this simple foundational Bill could be used to drive an incremental reform of educational administration. The Committee has not taken a formal view on this longer-term way forward.”
“I am sure that some Members, particularly at Consideration Stage, will want to say more about representation. In the interim, however, the majority of the Committee probably takes the view that, in the first instance, the Department should, imaginatively and in line with public appointment principles, ensure that the four community representatives are selected to ensure an appropriate and fair level of representation. <BR /> <BR />The Committee has sought further detail on how the substantial projected savings for the authority are to be realised, particularly as CCMS is to continue to exist. In his response today, perhaps the Minister will set out, at least at a high level, how savings are to be made and bureaucracy reduced through the establishment of the Education Authority.”
“<BR /> <BR />I think that the Committee appreciates the benefit of having a small board and understands the difficulty in representing all interests.”
“Others may also highlight today the absence of a statutory sectoral support body for voluntary grammar schools. <BR /> <BR />Schedule 1 sets out the composition of the board of the Education Authority; this appears largely to match those arrangements in the existing ELBs. This differs a little from that proposed in the previous Bill. Members of the Committee highlighted concerns in respect of the absence of explicit or guaranteed representation for integrated, Irish-medium and voluntary grammar schools on the board of the authority. The Committee considered evidence from stakeholders suggesting representation for those groups, groups representing young people and for organisations representing business and so on.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill dissolves the ELBs and the staff commission and leaves the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools in place, together with its duties in respect of planning for the Catholic maintained education estate. As Members are aware, the Minister is to establish a controlled schools sectoral support body, which is to have a role in area planning. Members of the Committee welcome the new body and generally see this as a fairer way to plan for our schools. <BR /> <BR />That said, I expect that some Members are disappointed that the Bill does not set out and guarantee the role for this new body in statute. I think that some other Members may also be unhappy that the Bill did not simplify educational planning by dissolving the CCMS.”
“It simply dissolves the five education and library boards and the staff commission and replaces them with a single education authority. All duties, obligations, responsibilities, staff and assets are – if we understand correctly – to transfer from the old education and library boards to the new Education Authority. <BR /> <BR />Unlike the previous Education Bills, this Bill will not alter the employment arrangements for teaching staff, except to simply transfer those working for one of the old five ELBs to the new Education Authority. The old questions about employers, employing authorities, tribunals and agency simply do not apply to this Bill. It appears to change nothing for voluntary grammars and nothing for schools generally in respect of the vexed questions about employment and management schemes.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. With your permission, I will initially make a few remarks as Chairperson of the Committee for Education and then as a DUP MLA. <BR /> <BR />Two years ago, almost to the day, my predecessor, Mr Mervyn Storey, stood here and made his Second Stage speech for an Education Bill. He said at that time that it was a bit like déjà vu all over again. He was, of course, referring to the second Education Bill in the space of around three years, and here we are again. <BR /> <BR />Last time, the Chairperson of the Education Committee picked out the many differences between the ESA 1 and ESA 2 Bills. This time, the Bill that is before us could hardly be more different from those that went before. For a start, it is considerably shorter.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is regrettable that we have an eleventh-hour solution to a matter that has taken almost six years to resolve. It could have been handled much more effectively had the Department not, with ESA, bitten off more than it could chew. There remain some outstanding issues, which I will go into in more detail during the Second Stage; these issues would have benefited from thorough examination in a Committee Stage. While more detailed consideration of any Bill is always the better course, given the perilous predicament that education will be placed in should the Bill not proceed, we understand the reasons for accelerated passage at this stage.”
“In fact, the proposals in the Bill bear a striking resemblance to the position that the DUP suggested in 2008. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the realities of the situation do not permit that. We face the reality that the passage of legislation must be accelerated to ensure that there is service delivery come 1 April next year. It is with reluctance, therefore, that I will accede to accelerated passage. That the Bill is to have no formal Committee Stage does not mean that the Committee will be ignoring its outworkings. I sincerely hope that the Minister and his officials will provide the information necessary to facilitate the work that the Committee will carry out. The time constraint will necessitate promptness from the Department, and I ask the Minister to give his undertaking to cooperate fully with the Committee in its endeavours.”
“That said, the two previous Bills were unwieldy pieces of legislation that truly merited clause-by-clause examination, particularly given the radical overhaul that they would have given effect to for the whole education system in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The Bill for which accelerated passage is being sought is much less radical but nonetheless important. If legislation is not passed, the education system will not be standing at a crossroads but on a cliff edge. Ideally, I would like to have had the opportunity to scrutinise the legislation in Committee. That process has shown itself to be extremely thorough and effective to date. Similarly, I would have liked the Minister to have brought these proposals sooner, as it was clear for some time that the previous Bill was not going to obtain the support necessary.”
“There are also important questions in respect of representative bodies, for example, for the controlled sector. As is usual, I will air the Committee’s views on those subjects during the Second Stage debate that is scheduled for later today. <BR /> <BR />Speaking as a DUP MLA, the road to reform has been long and fraught. After two aborted Bills, it is disappointing that this Bill should come before us with such limited time to consider it. The work of the Education Committee in forensically examining the clauses and outworkings of the previous two Bills was exemplary, and showed the effectiveness of the Committee system in the scrutiny of legislation.”
“The change proposed in the Bill is limited but, nonetheless, significant. Given the importance of the dissolution of the ELBs and their replacement by the Education Authority, it is unfortunate that it appears that the Committee will not get the opportunity to scrutinise the legislation to the extent that it would have liked. Notwithstanding this, the majority of members of the Committee will, with some reservations, support the motion for accelerated passage. I should indicate that, whether or not the Assembly agrees to accelerated passage, the Committee will expect to receive more information and regular updates on the Minister’s plans for the establishment of the Education Authority. I ask that, in his response today, the Minister assents to this. <BR /> <BR />There are a number of issues and important principles in the Education Bill.”
“I know also that many people in those organisations will welcome the early establishment of the proposed Education Authority and the associated stabilisation of staffing arrangements. I understand that, but it should be noted that the Bill will create a very large public sector organisation. The Committee has received only limited information on its anticipated structure, staffing levels and transitional arrangements. Welcome though the information provided so far has been, it is neither sufficient nor satisfactory.”
“I also think, or at least hope, that the last thing that anyone on the Committee wants to do is to introduce further uncertainty into the administration of education. <BR /> <BR />Setting aside the wider RPA issues, I think it worth mentioning that the existing ELBs and other organisations have been limping along for quite some time. Vacancy controls, in place since 2006, and several hundred voluntary severances have had a substantial impact on their efficiency and operability. Indeed, perhaps a third of non-teaching ELB staff and a larger proportion of senior staff are in temporary positions. <BR /> <BR />As a member of a number of boards of governors and Chair of the Education Committee, I know that this has been a difficult time for the education and library boards.”
“As the Minister just said, the existing education and library boards are defined by the old district council boundaries. Indeed, the allocation of places on the boards is also determined in part by the number of district councils in a board's area and the related relative populations of schoolchildren in the maintained and controlled sectors. <BR /> <BR />The Minister advised the Committee that, without the Bill, the RPA changes could undermine the legal certainty associated with the obligations and responsibilities of the education and library boards. It was further argued that accelerated passage was needed to mitigate that risk, as was pointed out today. <BR /> <BR />I think that everyone on the Committee understands that the roll-out of RPA will necessitate changes to the education and library boards.”
“From 1 April 2015, we will see changes to district councils, not only to their powers but to the number of councils and their boundaries.”
“Let me begin by declaring an interest as a member of the board of governors of Castle Gardens Primary School, Newtownards and Killinchy Primary School. With your permission, I will initially make a few remarks as Chairperson of the Committee for Education before speaking as an individual Member. <BR /> <BR />On 30 September 2014, in line with Standing Order 42(3), the Minister briefed the Education Committee on accelerated passage for the Education Bill. He said that accelerated passage was sought owing to the timescales associated with aspects of the reform of public administration. The Committee questioned the Minister on the justification for that. <BR /> <BR />The ongoing changes to local government, agreed by the House as part of RPA, are wide-ranging.”
“I welcome the Minister's comments. I am aware that the funding of the Ulster Orchestra falls outside DETI's remit, but the Minister will agree that the brand of the Ulster Orchestra is important to the marketing of Northern Ireland. Is the Minister in a position to give any assistance to the orchestra at this stage or in the absence of any help coming from DCAL?”
“I welcome the Minister's comments about flexibility. That has been raised with me in my role as an MLA. Will he expand on whether any criteria will be set against that? There is flexibility and there is flexibility.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. The supplementary question might contradict what he has actually said. There are a number in my constituency that are in extremely poor condition and which require significant investment. Does the Minister intend to invest in those prior to the transfer or leave it to local ratepayers to foot the bill?”