Chris Lyttle
East Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“The Department for Communities, councils, the Department for the Economy, further education stakeholders, the Department of Health and the Department of Finance all responded with their perspectives on and experiences of the provision of free period products and with ways in which the Bill's provisions could be coordinated and funded.”
“That is an important start in support of the implementation of the provisions of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Education Committee undertook Committee Stage scrutiny of this cross-cutting Bill — I am proud that we did — on behalf of other relevant subject Committees.”
“and fighting our corners in media studios. Perhaps the hosts of some of those programmes see fit to encourage that type of approach, but I am thankful for the level of cooperation between parties on the key issues and hope that that will be the legacy for the next Assembly.”
“Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to move the Final Stage of the Fair Employment (School Teachers) Bill. It will remove the anachronistic exception of teachers from the Fair Employment and Treatment Order (FETO) and ensure that it is no longer possible for any teacher to be discriminated against because of their religio…”
“This opportunity has been made possible by a collective effort from many people, and I put on record my thanks to research officer Connie Egan and constituency officer Nick Mathison for the work that they contributed to the Bill's progress.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank my Assembly colleagues without whom the Bill would not have progressed to this stage and would not pass. I thank Sinead for the role that she played as Chairperson of the Executive Office Committee and for the time that she made available to me outside of Bill stages and Committee meetings, which, as I said, made the…”
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“<BR /> <BR />The Bill has reached its Final Stage today, and that represents the immediacy that a deeply concerning issue came to require. As a result of the Bill, the Assembly will amend article 101 of the Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 1986 to include the General Teaching Council among the arm's-length bodies (ALBs) that the Department has the power to direct.”
“The Education Committee received briefings from various stakeholders on internal governance issues, alleged bullying and the intentional impeding of business, which created an untenable situation for the General Teaching Council for Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The extent of the Education Committee's concern was reflected in its approval of the Education Minister's decision to take action to dissolve the General Teaching Council in December 2021. The Education Committee supported the Minister's proposal to legislate to strengthen her position in respect of potential legal challenge. After meeting the Education Minister earlier this year, the Education Committee supported her motion to accelerate the passage of the Bill.”
“I genuinely and sincerely thank the Minister for his recognition of the work that the Education Committee, which I am privileged to Chair, has undertaken to cooperate and collaborate with the Education Minister in support of the passage of the Bill in order to deliver urgent reform of the dysfunctional General Teaching Council for Northern Ireland. That is appreciated. <BR /> <BR />The Education Committee's concerns about the General Teaching Council, including its governance and significant dysfunction, are well documented. That has been the case since special measures were introduced for the General Teaching Council.”
“Apologies for that noise, Deputy Speaker. I am not sure what is occurring there. <BR /> <BR />Would the Minister like to take the opportunity to confirm that the Integrated Education Bill does not change the common funding formula used to allocate funding to all schools in Northern Ireland?”
“I extend my good wishes to the Education Minister and reiterate the Education Committee's invitation to meet her before the end of the mandate. <BR /> <BR />A key action of 'A Fair Start', and, indeed, of New Decade, New Approach and pretty much every Programme for Government since I have been here is the delivery of an early education and childcare strategy. Why has the Education Minister failed to deliver that strategy? How can the Minister support the collapsing of the Executive, which has rendered them powerless to allocate a budget for that much-needed early education and childcare strategy?”
“The lack of information and action on those matters is no small part of the motivation for Kellie Armstrong proposing specific legislation and action towards meeting the pupil and parental demand for access to integrated education in Northern Ireland. It is for that reason that I, as Alliance education spokesperson, support the Integrated Education Bill proposed by Kellie Armstrong MLA and amended by the Assembly.”
“That is at a time when the Department of Education states that our education system is in financial crisis. <BR /> <BR />I would be really interested to hear what specific actions the Members who oppose the Bill have taken or will take to support integrated education. What is the Department of Education doing to encourage and facilitate integrated education? How does it identify, assess and meet the demand of pupils and parents for integrated education? What action has the Department taken to implement the recommendations of the comprehensive independent review of integrated education, which reported as long ago as 2017?”
“In 2018, a poll on education found that good educational standards are the most important factor for many people when choosing a school, followed closely by a desire for children to be educated together. Two thirds of respondents supported their school officially becoming an integrated school, but the overall view was that political leaders had done little or nothing to facilitate and encourage integrated education. Some 60% of respondents felt that politicians held up the accessibility of integrated education. In my constituency of East Belfast, poll results found that a majority of parents support their school becoming integrated. The Ulster University Economic Policy Centre (UUEPC) has established that separation and duplication in our education system could have significant financial costs of upwards of £90 million a year.”
“Seventeen formal Education Committee meetings were completed, and the Committee received information from the Assembly's Research and Information Service (RaISe), the Assembly's Legal Services and the Examiner of Statutory Rules. It was my privilege to preside over such an extensive Committee Stage process, and it is my privilege to support the Integrated Education Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Good Friday Agreement, which is an international peace accord, stated clearly that integrated education is essential to reconciliation. 'The Fresh Start Panel Report on the Disbandment of Paramilitary Groups in Northern Ireland' recommended that the Executive set ambitious targets to "measurably reduce segregation in education" as quickly as possible. That was in 2016.”
“It included an online public survey that gathered over 500 responses, of which 91% supported the Integrated Education Bill. Notices were placed in newspapers seeking written evidence, and written evidence was received from over 1,000 individuals and organisations. Fourteen oral evidence sessions were conducted that included representatives from all sectors: the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education, the Integrated Education Fund, the Northern Ireland Committee, Irish Congress of Trade Unions, CCMS, the Controlled Schools' Support Council, the EA, the Commissioner for Children and Young People and the Northern Ireland Youth Forum.”
“It has incurred a number of amendments, as Bills do; that is the legislative process. Because of that, I believe that the Assembly will support the Bill. <BR /> <BR />There are a thousand schools in Northern Ireland but only about 60 integrated schools. The Bill is about identifying, assessing and aiming to meet pupil and parent choice for an integrated school education. It is about facilitating choice. It is a modest step towards delivering on multiple agreements such as the Good Friday Agreement, the tackling paramilitarism action plan, the independent review of integrated education and New Decade, New Approach, all of which tasked the Executive with advancing integrated education. <BR /> <BR />The Committee Stage of the Bill lasted 20 weeks — five months — from 7 July to 24 November.”
“I thank the Member. I will maybe come to that in other comments. I spoke sincerely. In my roles as spokesperson and Committee Chair, I have had the privilege of engaging with a wide range of schools. As Alliance education spokesperson, I respect, value and have practically supported provision in all sectors and in all types of school. I have assisted integrated schools with funding, Catholic maintained schools with sixth-form provision, controlled primary schools with capital works, non-selective post-primary schools with capital works and voluntary grammar schools with concerns about assessment, and I will continue to do that. <BR /> <BR />The Bill has been influenced by a range of political parties which have engaged in the Committee Stage and with the Bill's sponsor throughout the legislative process.”
“I thank the Member for her intervention. I say, "Thank you": it sounds as if that school shows great leadership in being a welcoming environment for pupils from all backgrounds. The principal deserves our thanks. I reassure the Member that, genuinely, it is not my understanding of the Bill that that school will not be supported to continue to achieve that excellent aim and outcome for its pupils.”
“That has to be a challenge for inclusion, diversity and the experience of different backgrounds. My understanding is that promoting the option for pupils and parents to access that diverse, inclusive, integrated experience is the motive at the heart of the Bill. It is not to the detriment of the choice of other pupils or parents to apply and gain access to a different type of school. The Bill has been influenced —.”
“Doug Beattie spoke in support of integration, which he has done a number of times on social media of late, but he will today vote against the Integrated Education Bill without, in my respectful opinion, setting out a great deal of specific detail as to why. That is regrettable. <BR /> <BR />We have also heard a narrative of organic, natural integration. There are mixed schools in Northern Ireland. Schools in Northern Ireland promote inclusion and are welcoming. While integration is not just about numbers but about what happens in the school — how we integrate and how inclusive it is of the background of the people attending it — the fact of the matter is that, from my understanding of the statistics, about 80 non-integrated schools out of 1,000 schools in Northern Ireland have at least 10% of their pupils from the other main tradition.”
“A DUP MLA, Robin Newton, my constituency colleague, with whom I have worked on a number of issues and whom I respect, expressed sadness that a Sinn Féin MLA, John O'Dowd, had not spoken in the debate. It is welcome to see the DUP wishing that Sinn Féin be fully involved in debates and its view listened to and heard in the Chamber as an important contribution. I welcome that today. To be fair to John O'Dowd, he apologised for what he referred to as his "unfair" remarks at Second Stage. It takes a bit of courage to do that, so it is right to say "Fair play". John has made a vital contribution to improving the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I will come back to the Bill, Mr Speaker. When we contribute, we need to do so with accuracy and consistency.”
“Fair enough. <BR /> <BR />Change and education reform will not necessarily be easy. It will take courage. I recognise the courage that the Bill sponsor has shown. Private Members' legislation can be challenging. A lot of people support the process, but it takes serious courage and endeavour and really hard work. At times, there is misrepresentation, and dealing with that requires energy, bravery, wherewithal and intelligence. I give credit to my colleague Kellie Armstrong for having been willing to undertake that work and to attempt reform in an area of provision in Northern Ireland that we are all so passionate about but that requires real challenge. <BR /> <BR />We have had a few firsts today.”
“I will make the point first, and then I will gladly give way. <BR /> <BR />I am an Alliance MLA. I chaired the Committee Stage of the Bill. I did so, I believe, with diligence, impartiality and fairness. The sponsor of the Bill is an Alliance MLA, and she has been referred to across the House on numerous occasions as having engaged widely and substantively and in a way that has resulted in amendments being made that have improved the Bill. I therefore feel it necessary to express regret about some of the comments. I am happy to give way.”
“Justin McNulty, another Member with whom I have engaged on a wide range of issues, regrettably referred to an Alliance Party process that had created difficulty with the Bill.”
“I appreciate the intervention, and I take that as a fair point and wish Robbie well if there is a need to do that. I have interacted with Robbie on a wide range of these issues, and I will continue to do so. I entirely accept that there is a reason why that has not been possible today.”
“It is not adequate to refer to concern, frustration or even panic without being able to articulate what you actually mean by that. It is not adequate. <BR /> <BR />I have engaged with Robbie Butler across a wide range of issues, and I have nothing but respect for and, indeed, friendship with Robbie. I presume that there is a legitimate and fair reason for his being unable to be in the Chamber today, but, given the extent of some of his comments in his contribution, I really regret that he is not in the Chamber so that I could interact with him and engage with him directly.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Final Stage of this Bill. I think that it is increasingly evident that education reform towards a more integrated and more sustainable education system in Northern Ireland that delivers equal opportunity for every child to achieve their own unique talent and ability will be challenging. It is clear that the status quo is not going to change easily. <BR /> <BR />However, I ask that, when we are endeavouring to engage with that serious and challenging reform, we do so with as much respect, as much accuracy and as much detail as possible, avoiding misrepresentation, inaccuracy and comments that will generate confusion. I ask that, when we are asked to set out what those concerns are, we actually do so.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will the Member accept that it is, at times, the job of leaders to respond to panic rather than promote panic? Can he provide a few points of detail on what he thinks the panic is about?”
“I thank the Member for giving way briefly again. I neglected to refer to it in my remarks, but a recommendation was made that an app be created to identify the locations of period product provision. Does the Member agree that that is another useful provision for all the Departments to work together to deliver?”
“I thank the Member for giving way briefly and for his kind words about my not-so-youthful-any-more appearance. Does he agree that we would not dream of not providing other essential items due to limited resources and that we simply have to find the funds to make the provision that the Bill sets out?”
“We are always indebted for the calm objectivity of our Bill Clerk, our researcher and the Assembly's Legal Services, and this time was no exception. <BR /> <BR />I commend the Committee's amendments to the Assembly, as well as the Bill sponsor's amendments, which we also support, and I look forward to the Minister's response to the Committee's recommendation. We are delighted to see the Bill progress to this stage and look forward to its further progress to Final Stage.”
“We are all appreciative of that outcome to allow the Bill to pass. <BR /> <BR />Our Committee report and its appendices hopefully make useful reading for many and are a useful contribution, and I commend the report to the Assembly on International Women's Day. I am grateful to all stakeholders who contributed their thoughtful and often heartfelt replies and reflections on their experiences. I thank Education Committee members for their diligence and commitment on the matter. I also thank the Education Committee Clerk and her team, as well as the Clerks and departmental Assembly liaison officers (DALOs) who helped them facilitate liaison on this cross-cutting matter in a short window of opportunity.”
“<BR /> <BR />In agreeing its report on 2 February 2022, the Education Committee also agreed to write to the Executive Office to indicate the uncertainty demonstrated in the Department of Health's oral evidence concerning the universal duty and to ask that, to avert any confusion caused by that, the Executive Office undertake to coordinate the Executive response to the Bill and departmental amendments to it. The Committee received helpful submissions from the Department for the Economy, the Minister of Finance and the Minister for Communities, as well as some clarifying submissions. Owing to the resignation of the DUP First Minister, the Executive Office was no longer available to coordinate, so the Education Committee welcomes the letter received from the Communities Minister, Deirdre Hargey MLA, undertaking that role.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee's recommendation for an accompanying education awareness-raising programme that would address in co-educational settings societal attitudes that give rise to period stigma and help explain and demystify periods and period product provision, including sustainable options was inspired by the evidence of the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) outlining the educational programme that it has rolled out in schools to accompany the implementation of the Department of Education's period dignity pilot. I hope to hear discussion and reassurances from the coordinating Minister about how that recommendation might be accepted and actioned.”
“The Committee also had before it the text of the Bill sponsor's amendments, which address issues raised by Departments in their correspondence with the Committee, namely correcting minor and technical details of the Bill and seeking to clarify language that had given rise to misunderstandings about the phasing of and timing of specific public-service bodies' regulation-making and commencement provisions. The Committee agreed that it was content with the amendments before it, with certain clauses of the Bill as drafted and with the clauses subject to those amendments. One Committee member reserved judgement on the amendments, certain clauses as drafted and the clauses subject to amendment, owing to unresolved factors external to the Bill that I have already outlined. That is as diplomatic a way as I can put that.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Education Committee was also conscious of the environmental impact of paper and plastic waste from menstrual products, which was calculated by the Women's Environmental Network at 200,000 tons a year. Accordingly, amendment Nos 9 and 14 reinforce reference to "articles which are reusable" to ensure that sustainable options are considered and consulted on as much as possible in response to the needs of service users.”
“Secondly, the Committee wished those arrangements to require consideration of sustainable products, described in the Bill as "articles which are reusable". <BR /> <BR />The first theme in respect of privacy and confidentiality derives from evidence from organisations such as Homeless Period Belfast, which indicated a preference that free period products should be available inside toilet cubicles or beside wash-hand basins. It emphasised the need for privacy and confidentiality, represented by its stakeholders, who were conscious of feeling period stigma. That was echoed by the Period Poverty Action Group and the Department for Communities witnesses. Accordingly, amendment Nos 8, 10 and 14 add the additional elements of "privacy and confidentiality" to the prerequisite in the Bill of dignity in arrangements.”
“There was a lack of clarity around the funding of the proposed measures. However, the Education Committee was in favour of the policy direction led by the Bill sponsor, Pat Catney MLA, and was advised that the Bill was technically sound and afforded time and flexibility for the proposed arrangements to be made before commencement. <BR /> <BR />Formal clause-by-clause scrutiny of the Bill took place on 31 January 2022. The Education Committee commissioned the text of four amendments, which you see on the Marshalled List today. They address themes and suggestions that arose in written and oral submissions. First, the Committee identified a need to emphasise privacy and confidentiality in arrangements made to deliver provision under the clause 1 universal duty and the more discrete clause 2 duty for specified public service bodies.”
“Notwithstanding the primary need to put provision in place, there is an additional need to minimise paper and plastic waste from period products, which is estimated at 200,000 tons of waste per year in the UK, and the Committee has acted upon that in agreeing and tabling amendments to clauses 3 and 5. There was a relative lack of evidence on which to base costings for the proposals, given that similar schemes in neighbouring jurisdictions have recently commenced, although estimates were provided, for which we are grateful, by the Bill sponsor, Pat Catney MLA. <BR /> <BR />There was an issue with the pending nature of an indication from the Executive to the Bill sponsor and to the Committee of a lead or coordinating Department for the Bill, and that will also be addressed.”
“Girls and boys both voiced the opinion that more open discussion of periods would make it less taboo and would enable boys and girls to understand and support people with menstruation. Some pupils expressed the expectation that period products should be provided on the same basis as toilet paper and other essentials and that it is unfair to many people that that is not already the case. They spoke truth to power, as they always do, and I commend our young people for showing us the way. <BR /> <BR />Overall, the Education Committee identified some key challenges with the Bill. Stakeholder input recommended privacy and confidentiality in accessing period products, and the Education Committee has acted on that by agreeing and tabling amendments to clauses 3 and 5.”
“The Examiner advised that the delegation of legislative power provided for in the Bill is not inappropriate and that the exercise of that legislative power is subject to an appropriate procedure. <BR /> <BR />The Education Committee's principles and values align, as I said earlier, with the objectives of the Bill. That was brought home to us even more emphatically when we took part in a youth engagement event on the Bill's proposals. Young people shared their experience of period pain and period emergencies at school; their self-consciousness about periods; their worry about not being sure that they would have enough products to manage menstruation and unpredictability, especially during exercise; their fear of being made to feel ashamed about their periods; and the stigma of others.”
“From 1 December 2021 to 26 January 2022, the Committee took oral evidence from the Bill's sponsor, Pat Catney MLA; the Department for Communities; the Department of Education; the Department of Health; and selected stakeholders who had submitted written evidence. <BR /> <BR />The Committee commenced its informal deliberations on the clauses of the Bill on 26 January 2022 and completed its formal clause-by-clause scrutiny at its meeting of 31 January 2022. The Assembly's Research and Information Service provided the Committee with research papers on the Bill. As is the usual convention, the Committee sought and accepted the advice of the Examiner of Statutory Rules on the secondary legislation-making powers in the Bill and the level of Assembly scrutiny to which those rules would be subject.”
“<BR /> <BR />Following the introduction of the Bill to the Assembly, the Education Committee wrote to key education stakeholders on 23 November 2021. The Committee also inserted notices in the 'Belfast Telegraph', 'The Irish News' and the 'News Letter' to seek written evidence on the Bill by 18 December 2021. The Committee highlighted its call for evidence via social media and agreed, at its meeting of 6 December 2021, to extend its call for evidence on the Bill to Friday 7 January 2022. <BR /> <BR />Around 66 organisations and individuals responded to the request for written evidence. During the period covered by the Committee Stage report, the Committee considered the Bill and related issues at 11 meetings.”
“For some time, the Committee for Education has worked to urge that measures be put in place to end period poverty and facilitate the free provision of period products. The Department of Education began a period dignity pilot project in schools last year, and laid the groundwork for the roll-out of a more comprehensive approach. Therefore, the Bill is timely and aligns with the Education Committee's aim of delivering equal access to education for all. <BR /> <BR />The Education Committee worked hard to liaise with relevant voices in government and the public during the Committee Stage of this cross-cutting Bill. We commend the efforts of Pat Catney MLA to progress this important Bill in the Assembly.”
“The overdue release of the subregional stadia programme funding is really limiting the extremely positive impact that clubs, such as Glentoran in my constituency of East Belfast, can have in our community. Will the Minister repeat the names of the Executive Ministers from whom she has received a response in support of the fund and state whether she will be progressing the terms of the working group's recommendations?”
“I look forward to working with the Executive Office Committee and with all MLAs so that we can do our utmost to achieve the aim of the Bill and take the opportunity to pass this important legislation before the end of the Assembly mandate.”
“I thank my Alliance Party colleague Kellie Armstrong MLA for her contribution tonight and for the support and advice that she has given throughout the private Member's Bill process. She has worked extensively and courageously to show leadership on the Integrated Education Bill, which is the private Member's Bill that she is progressing through the Assembly. I thank her for the support that she has given over the progress of this significantly shorter piece of legislation and for setting out her sincere hope that the legal protection for teachers that is proposed by the Bill can pass in this Assembly mandate. <BR /> <BR />As I said in my opening remarks, the debate has further demonstrated the broad public and political support for the Fair Employment (School Teachers) Bill.”
“However, that did not happen, and it required us, as private Members, to seek to move the legislation and to build consensus, which appears quite clearly to exist, for the law to be passed in this manner.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank Daniel McCrossan MLA for his support for the Bill and for stating clearly that the exemption of teachers from fair employment should be removed. I note his welcome for the recent evidence of CCMS in support of the Bill and, as I mentioned previously, the positive collaboration between teacher training colleges on the certificate in religious education. I also thank him for recognising the work of a number of MLAs in progressing legislation in the House. <BR /> <BR />As has been a flavour of the debate, it is frustrating and quite hard to understand that a Department did not act earlier to introduce what is simple legislation.”
“I note Daniel McCrossan's acknowledgement of the work that has been undertaken between St Mary's and Stranmillis to improve collaboration and the accessibility of that certificate. <BR /> <BR />Some respondents to the consultation wished to see further reform to the certificate in religious education, but I have been clear from the outset that the Bill would not be a vehicle to advance any further work in that regard. <BR /> <BR />I also note the concerns raised by Diane Dodds around ethos. A lot of reassurance has been given in that regard, and the recent support for the Bill's provisions that has been clearly articulated by CCMS, for example, suggests that such reassurance has been well received.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank Pat Sheehan MLA for his support for the Bill, his acknowledgement of the overwhelming support that exists and for the commitment that he has given to work together to see the legislation pass before the end of the mandate. <BR /> <BR />I thank Diane Dodds MLA. We are in agreement, as is often the case in the Assembly when it comes to important matters relating to fairness and equality in education. I welcome the DUP support for the principles of the Bill and the acknowledgement that it is a DUP manifesto commitment. <BR /> <BR />I note some of the concerns that Diane Dodds raised. I genuinely believe that the certificate in religious education can be considered in a different context from the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />I recognise the work that was undertaken by the Ulster Unionist Party on this issue in previous mandates, particularly in 2016, when MLAs Sandra Overend MLA and Danny Kennedy MLA attempted to pass a legislative amendment. That is a salutary warning to the Assembly as to how much time can pass between attempts to reform legislation. It is a warning to us to do all that we can to get the legislation over the line on this occasion. <BR /> <BR />I agree with John Stewart MLA that, ordinarily, we would not choose to move at such a pace along the legislative pathway. I thank him for acknowledging that the tight scope and focus of the Bill should allow us to do all that we can to pass it.”
“I thank all Members who contributed to the concise debate. This evening, there has been a united response to the proposals in the Fair Employment (School Teachers) Bill. <BR /> <BR />I thank members of the Executive Office Committee for, as I said earlier, such a proactive response to the legislation. I thank the Deputy Chairperson, John Stewart MLA, for setting out the comprehensive approach that has been taken to the consultation and call for evidence. Around 330 responses have been gathered already, and they appear to demonstrate further support for the Bill, including, I note, from the key stakeholders — individual teachers.”
“I am convinced that there is broad public and political support for the provisions of the Fair Employment (School Teachers) Bill, and that the Assembly should do all that we can to take the opportunity to pass this important legislation before the end of the Assembly mandate.”
“I met the Transferor Representatives' Council, which reiterated its support for equality of opportunity in teacher recruitment and its opposition to unfair discrimination on the grounds of religion or belief, and gave a commitment to engage with the Bill at further stages. <BR /> <BR />Importantly, through a motion debated in May 2021, the Assembly has already adopted a position of undivided support for the urgent inclusion of teachers in the Fair Employment and Treatment Order. I warn that the last time that the Assembly attempted to pass this legislative reform was over five years ago.”