Chris Lyttle
East Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“The Department for Communities, councils, the Department for the Economy, further education stakeholders, the Department of Health and the Department of Finance all responded with their perspectives on and experiences of the provision of free period products and with ways in which the Bill's provisions could be coordinated and funded.”
“That is an important start in support of the implementation of the provisions of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Education Committee undertook Committee Stage scrutiny of this cross-cutting Bill — I am proud that we did — on behalf of other relevant subject Committees.”
“and fighting our corners in media studios. Perhaps the hosts of some of those programmes see fit to encourage that type of approach, but I am thankful for the level of cooperation between parties on the key issues and hope that that will be the legacy for the next Assembly.”
“Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I welcome the opportunity to move the Final Stage of the Fair Employment (School Teachers) Bill. It will remove the anachronistic exception of teachers from the Fair Employment and Treatment Order (FETO) and ensure that it is no longer possible for any teacher to be discriminated against because of their religio…”
“This opportunity has been made possible by a collective effort from many people, and I put on record my thanks to research officer Connie Egan and constituency officer Nick Mathison for the work that they contributed to the Bill's progress.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank my Assembly colleagues without whom the Bill would not have progressed to this stage and would not pass. I thank Sinead for the role that she played as Chairperson of the Executive Office Committee and for the time that she made available to me outside of Bill stages and Committee meetings, which, as I said, made the…”
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“Perhaps OFMDFM needs to do more work on building a united community. That would be one way of ensuring that we tackle the issue. Even allowing for that context, Scotland has one MSP per 40,000 people, Wales has one AM per 50,000, but Northern Ireland has one MLA per 16,000 to 17,000, which is a drastically different ratio and is over-governance by any stretch. <BR /> <BR />I will try to respond to some of the issues that have been raised. I have dealt with under-representation to a certain extent.”
“I believe that we need serious proactive activity to encourage the many capable women across our society — indeed, those from all under-represented sectors — to become elected representatives. I remain to be convinced that we need specific quotas or how we would deliver such quotas, but maybe that is a debate for another occasion. <BR /> <BR />People also referred to the task of legislating. Work is ongoing to reduce the number of Departments from 12 to nine, with effect from 2016. It would be a significantly less complicated task to reduce the number of MLAs, so I see no reason why that cannot be taken forward. <BR /> <BR />The rationale is clear and strong: Northern Ireland is over-governed. We have substantially more MLAs per head than Scotland and Wales. It has been said that we have a unique context as a deeply divided society.”
“I will in a second. There are probably much more important reasons than the size of the Assembly as to why we do not have more female representatives.”
“I was going to address that issue as well, but I will come to it. I am proud that I have been surrounded by formidable, capable, courageous female elected representatives in my party. A wide range of issues prevents women from coming forward into elected representation. I am not sure that an overgoverned Assembly is necessarily one of them. Sinn Féin will maybe agree with me on this. Most regrettably, and I do not know why, many female elected representatives have been targeted, mistreated and spoken to in a most inappropriate way at times, and indeed, they have been physically attacked. On some occasions, they have resorted to removing themselves from elected office.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I will touch on the timing in due course, but I really do not understand. If the principle is agreed, and it is as straightforward an issue as it appears to most of the members of the public who want to see a reduction in costs and more effective government, why can we not show leadership on this issue and move forward now? <BR /> <BR />The Stormont House Agreement commits to the reduction; it says that it should happen by 2021. However, that does not preclude it from happening earlier. Indeed, the Alliance Party believes that there is no significant impediment to that taking place for the 2016 election.”
“We have an opportunity to agree on a modest, straightforward proposal, and I hope that there might still be time for people to reconsider their positions on that, but I fear that we may have to return to this issue.”
“I welcome the opportunity to wind up the debate. It has been constructive. A wider range of issues has been raised than was, perhaps, expected; but it is important to state clearly at core what we are debating. It is the proposal to reduce the number of MLAs from 108 to 90, from six MLAs to five for each of 18 constituencies. It is indeed a fairly modest reduction, by all accounts. <BR /> <BR />On coming to the Assembly today, I was greeted by a member of the public whom I debate these issues with. The opinion given to me was, "Sure, you have no chance of getting that through the Assembly today, Chris, do you? Turkeys voting for Christmas." Today presents an opportunity for us to surprise the ever-increasing frustration and disillusionment that is ever growing at this Assembly.”
“I thank the First Minister for his response. Despite disagreeing with him fundamentally on many issues, I, too, extend sincere good wishes for his departure from the Assembly when he decides to do so. <BR /> <BR />In the light of recent serious racist attacks — including petrol bombings, cars being torched, homes being attacked and residents being assaulted in Ballykeel, Ballymena and in my constituency of East Belfast, as well as the desire of the majority in our community to see a united community — is the inordinate delay in delivering a racial equality strategy and a refugee integration strategy not an indictment of OFMDFM? Will he agree that urgent work still has to be done to ensure that our black and minority ethnic members of the community have the same safety, inclusion and opportunity as anyone else in our community?”
“I welcome the fact that the Minister has brought a public statement to the Assembly on this important issue. I agree wholeheartedly with her that we have world-class artists in Northern Ireland who are enriching the lives of individuals, our community and our economy, and I welcome her support for East Belfast Arts Festival in particular. <BR /> <BR />I agree with her statement that the strategy must be underpinned by appropriate government support, but my understanding is that funding is as little as 11p or 13p per head of the population in Northern Ireland. What is the target level of funding that she hopes to secure for our arts community's future?”
“I welcome the Minister to her post and commend her Department for the support it has given to the Sustrans report, 'Belfast Bike Life 2015', which found nearly £12 million in health benefits to Belfast and 67p per mile savings to citizens of Belfast through cycling. The report also says that 78% of people in Belfast want more investment in cycling. Does the Minister intend to increase the budget for cycling to deliver the improved bicycling infrastructure that we need and deserve?”
“I thank the Minister for his response. Does he agree that anyone threatening people from a black and minority ethnic background is merely playing into the hands of the terrorists who seek to divide our community and threaten our freedoms? Does he agree that there is now a long-overdue need for OFMDFM to bring forward the racial equality strategy and the refugee integration strategy? Will he work at the Executive table to ensure that they are delivered?”
“I thank the junior Minister for her update. Does she agree that improving the services available for victims and survivors in our community remains an important task? Does she agree that it needs to be an open and transparent process? If so, why has research undertaken by the Commission for Victims and Survivors, proposing a model for a severe injury pension for victims and survivors, yet to be published?”
“In addition to support for investment across the Holywood multi-schools project, will the Minister acknowledge that Priory Integrated College is in need of planning and capital funding assistance, and does he agree that there is oversubscription for integrated education in neighbouring education areas? On those grounds, will he assure the House that he will stand and deliver for integrated post-primary provision in the area?”
“<BR /> <BR />There are significant ongoing inequalities and challenges to address for our children and young people in terms of child poverty, health and educational achievement in order to ensure that they have the opportunity to live in a safe and shared society. It is my hope that the Bill will make a significant contribution to meeting those challenges. The UN, as I have mentioned at other stages of the Bill, has warned that the failure to achieve positive outcomes for children is one of the most costly mistakes that a society can make. The Alliance Party will continue to work collaboratively with all elected representatives and political parties, and in government, to ensure that we do not make that mistake in Northern Ireland and that we work to deliver for our children and young people. I commend the Bill to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />There have been problems related to the coordination of the planning, commissioning and delivering of children's services. The Bill will make a significant contribution towards addressing those, and to the development and implementation of strong policy and legislation for children and young people. The centre for children's rights at Queen's University and the Children's Commissioner conducted work to investigate barriers to effective government delivery for children. They identified the need for stronger working together and joined-up government in relation to those issues.”
“<BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the contributions of all elected representatives who have contributed to making the Bill a strong mechanism to ensure more effective government delivery for children and young people across Northern Ireland. I also welcome the presence of the junior Ministers to respond to this stage of the Bill today. I congratulate Emma Pengelly on her appointment as junior Minister in the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. I am glad that I have the opportunity of knowing Emma beyond the Assembly. I have a good working relationship with her. She has received scrutiny further to her appointment that, at times, has spilt over into unfair and inappropriate criticism, but no doubt she and I will continue to have robust exchange and scrutiny opportunities beyond today's debate.”
“All-party groups sometimes get a hard time in the Assembly, but the all-party group on children and young people has shown itself to bring together elected representatives across parties, organisations and Departments on key issues affecting children and young people, and it is achieving outcomes as a result. I also acknowledge the work conducted by the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister and its officials in relation to enhancing the provisions of the Bill; the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister, of which I am Deputy Chair; and the hard work of the officials at Committee Stage.”
“I welcome the opportunity to respond. The Alliance Party has had an Assembly manifesto commitment to support legislation that would introduce a statutory duty for all Departments to cooperate and collaborate. That is needed across a wide range of issues, but perhaps most notably in relation to children and young people's issues. It is for that reason that I am glad to welcome the Final Stage of the Children's Services Co-operation Bill and, like others, commend its proposer, Mr Agnew. It has been a pleasure to work closely with Mr Agnew on children and young people's issues, most particularly as members of the all-party group on children and young people.”
“I welcome the announcement today. Does the Minister agree that this is at least one example of two Executive Ministers — her and the Minister of Justice — working together to respond to an issue of serious public concern in increasing the maximum sentence for serious offences to five years? What other provisions might the review of the Welfare of Animals Act bring forward?”
“I thank the Minister for the Urban Villages support for a cross-community youth project in inner east Belfast that led to the reinstallation of the Teenage Dreams public artwork, a good example of the project in action. Given that Urban Villages is a headline project of the Northern Ireland good relations strategy, Together: Building a United Community, what key good relations outcomes will it achieve for our community?”
“The Chairperson of the OFMDFM Committee has capably set that out in detail. Lord Morrow, the Chairperson of the Ad Hoc Committee, raised concerns about the resource implications of these provisions. However, he also acknowledged that uniformity, consistency and clarity are needed for the public when presenting complaints about public services and that, while the Ad Hoc Committee was not able to form a collective view at this stage, he could see merit in these proposals. Chris Hazzard also referred to those provisions in a positive light. I give the Committee's support to these amendments.”
“This has been a short but constructive debate on this group of amendments. The amendments are positive and, as Members mentioned, demonstrate the good use that can be made of drawing from best practice in other jurisdictions on these islands. <BR /> <BR />The amendments, as mentioned, will focus on complaints handling procedures drawn from best practice in Scotland, such as the use of a small complaints standards team, common complaints standards, principles and procedures, model complaints handling procedures and the ability of the ombudsman to compel good practice in complaints handling procedures with listed authorities.”
“Will the Minister of Justice confirm that there is no provision for amnesties in any part of the legacy arrangements proposed in the Stormont House Agreement? Will he also confirm that the core aim of that work is to improve access to justice, information and services for victims and survivors?”
“<BR /> <BR />In closing, I add my thanks to the officials who worked tirelessly on this group of amendments; the ombudsman, who engaged effectively; all stakeholders; the Ad Hoc Committee; and Members who contributed to this stage of the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee did not feel that the case had been made to reverse that arrangement, and we certainly do not agree with Mr Allister that the provisions proposed are in any way akin to concealment. This is very much about creating a system in which members of the public feel at ease and have a clear pathway to raising with the ombudsman's office their concerns about the delivery of public services. Of course, it is also about ensuring that, where the findings of any investigation are in the public interest, they are made fully and publicly available, and that any other persons whom the ombudsman considers appropriate are notified. <BR /> <BR />The Committee did not think that the case had been made for amendment Nos 22, 23, 58 and 59, and, as mentioned, will oppose them at this stage.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Maginness also addressed clause 30 (7)(b) and asked for reflection on the introduction of discretion for the ombudsman to permit legal representation. The Chairperson of the Committee for OFMDFM gave the helpful example of the arrangements in place for the chair of the historical abuse inquiry, which may be worth examining. <BR /> <BR />Mr Allister spoke to the amendments that he tabled, and the Chairperson of the Committee for OFMDFM and I responded. On amendment No 54, the Chairperson and members of the Committee for OFMDFM are content that clause 34(2)(d) makes provision for a report to be provided to any person whom the ombudsman considers appropriate. Indeed, it creates the power for the ombudsman to publish a report when it is in the public interest to do so.”
“He stated that the bringing together of the Commissioner for Complaints and the ombudsman was positive and that he hoped that that would enhance protection for the public in the delivery of public services. He also noted, helpfully, that the majority of our public servants seek to deliver an effective service with the utmost integrity at all times. He noted, as the Committee did, that Sinn Féin will oppose amendment Nos 22, 23, 54, 58 and 59. <BR /> <BR />Mr Maginness, on behalf of the SDLP, raised important points on clause 32(1)(2). He outlined how concerns about legal privilege, which were raised by stakeholders such as the BMA, the Bar Council and the Law Society, have been capably addressed. We also heard from the Chairperson, who spoke to reassure those bodies that legal professional privilege would not be altered by the Bill.”
“The Chairperson of the Committee for OFMDFM set out its position on the amendments in effective detail, and I will not go through that again. Lord Morrow, as Chairperson of the Ad Hoc Committee, did the same. In particular, in response to the seeking of clarity on provisions relating to universities and theological colleges, he expressed reassurance. We then heard from a number of Members on the amendments. <BR /> <BR />Mr Maskey, on behalf of Sinn Féin, outlined support for the Bill, notwithstanding the objections consistently presented at Committee Stage to the appointment process and provisions for arrangements with the Secretary of State.”
“I welcome the opportunity to wind up this group of amendments. I thank all the Members who have contributed to the debate. There has been a constructive engagement on the amendments throughout.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He has taken good time to make a point he feels strongly about. The Chair of the Committee for OFMDFM responded to make it clear that the power to publish would be provided for in the Bill on the decision of the ombudsman. <BR /> <BR />One concern raised with the Committee was that the approach being proposed by Mr Allister may, in some way, impede open and frank engagement in the process, while the prospect of greater guaranteed publicity could be a corresponding disincentive. Does he have any view in relation to those concerns?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I find strange his analysis of another party that he is trying to criticise as being joined at the hip with Sinn Féin odd when his party was joined at the hip/inextricably linked to the DUP at only the last Westminster election. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate the aim of doing what is right for Northern Ireland, but how is abandoning a Department that is scheduled to make a £15 million underspend and has serious issues in road maintenance and street lighting doing what is right for the people with public services?”
“I am reluctant to get drawn into a war of words, given that the purpose today is to send out a clear message that MLAs and Ministers want to work in the best interests of people in Northern Ireland, but, given that the Member has criticised the Alliance Party, does he accept that the abdication of responsibility to take difficult decisions on welfare reform is damaging our community just as much as the abdication of actual ministerial office?”
“I thank the Acting First Minister for her answer. Does she agree that the creation of a forum to harness the collective ingenuity of people across sectors in society, such as leaders in business and people from the community and voluntary sector, could help and enhance the design and delivery of the Together: Building a United Community strategy?”
“Does the Acting First Minister welcome the inclusion of an indicator on integrated education in the new good relations indicators? Does that suggest a need to revise the Building a United Community strategy to include specific reference to the need to promote integrated education?”
“If a Minister accepts office, knowing that they will be unable to perform these roles, answer questions, attend Committees or give account to MLAs for their actions, they have clearly brought into question their commitment to that Pledge of Office. It is important that we remember that accountability for inaction is as important as accountability for actions. For these reasons, I ask the Assembly to pass this motion and make it clear that the "Now you see them, now you don't" approach to politics is not acceptable.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I think that is an important point to make. The independent investigation of potential breaches of the ministerial code and some form of enforcement appear to be urgently needed, given the mockery being made of it. The fact that Ministers are accepting office with no intention of attending Executive meetings or North/South Ministerial Council is a serious concern. I believe that the ministerial code of conduct requires Ministers to be accountable for activities within their responsibility, their stewardship of public funds and the extent to which key performance targets are being met by their Department.”
“The process of taking up office safe in the knowledge that a resignation will issue within 24 hours brings into disrepute whether that office is being accepted with the good faith to discharge duties and to participate fully in the Executive, the North/South Ministerial Council and the British-Irish Council. Accepting office with no intention —”
“The lack of ministerial presence also prevents Departments responding to events and to a number of Question Times here in the Assembly, which is when we seek to raise urgent issues and hold Departments to account. <BR /> <BR />I was concerned by the DUP's suggestion that it does not really matter whether Ministers are in post. Not only is that untrue, it is disingenuous. It also, rather bizarrely, suggests that the DUP is, at best, lukewarm about the impact that its Ministers make. To my mind, the continued Executive absences may well constitute a breach of the ministerial Pledge of Office.”
“It is also my understanding that, in the Department for Social Development, there has been a delay in legislation on regeneration powers, housing and pensions. Those Bills may not have the same immediacy as the growing waiting lists, but their passage is important for the lives of many in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Those are just some examples of delays and pressures being put on our public services, which are having a significant detrimental effect on the governance and the people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />A much wider range of aspects of ministerial office is also being neglected, such as policy accountability and leadership.”
“The increase in waiting lists is deeply concerning to many in our community. Indeed, the chief executive of the Health and Social Care Board spoke openly about the challenges facing our health service in regard to waiting lists and the need for significant additional investment from the monitoring round to help to reduce that immediate issue. <BR /> <BR />The monitoring round was not agreed by the Executive in June, and it appears that the October monitoring round will also be missed and that the best that we can hope for is to work towards the January monitoring round. That is not the only example of issues in the health service. It is my understanding that a joint strategy on domestic and sexual violence has been agreed by the Minister of Justice and requires the urgent approval of the Minister of Health.”
“However, we did not, at any point, propose action that would prevent key decision-making in Departments. The running of our public services should not be subject to political whims. The serious allegations in connection to the Provisional IRA should not be allowed to plunge our public services into crisis as well as our institutions. <BR /> <BR />There is mounting evidence that the DUP's actions are affecting the governance of Northern Ireland. One example is, as I mentioned, the ridicule that is being heaped on this institution. It is deeply damaging to public confidence in key Ministries. Equally worrying is the impact on public services. I am deeply concerned, like many others, about that development. Perhaps most pressing, however, is the inability to agree a monitoring round due to the failure of the Executive to meet.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party reluctantly accepted the proposal for a short adjournment of the Assembly, but we certainly would not have supported and do not support the abdication of ministerial responsibility for our public services or the rolling resignation policy that is bringing the Executive into further disrepute. <BR /> <BR />I place on my record my party's revulsion at the heinous murder of Gerard Davison and Kevin McGuigan and our concern at the suggestion that members of the Provisional IRA were involved. Where there was evidence of any party political paramilitary connection in the past, the Alliance Party did not hesitate to take action, and we supported the exclusion of Sinn Féin during previous talks processes and Assembly mandates. We will not be found wanting in that respect.”
“<BR /> <BR />Despite that, we have seen the absurd situation of the DUP Minister of Enterprise, for example, coming to the Chamber, albeit on the important matters of renewable energy and credit unions, yet the Minister of Health is continuing to refuse to respond or take up his ministerial responsibility to show strategic leadership on urgent issues such as spiralling hospital waiting lists. In any other jurisdiction, urgent action would have been taken to address those. We believe that this part-time, theatre politics has to stop and that we have to get back to dealing with the serious issues that need to be addressed. We do not see how walking away from ministerial responsibility for delivering strategic leadership in our public services is doing what is right for the people of Northern Ireland.”
“However, I fail to see how the resignations that we have seen, including the Ulster Unionist Party resignation but, in particular, the DUP approach of rolling resignations, are doing anything other than damaging fragile public confidence in our Assembly and imperilling our public services. Indeed, they may well be a breach of the ministerial Pledge of Office, which requires Ministers to discharge their duties in good faith, to participate fully in the Executive and to be accountable to the Assembly.”
“I move the motion somewhat reluctantly, but I think that this is an important opportunity for MLAs to state clearly that there are Members of the Assembly and Ministers in the Executive who are working to deliver effective power-sharing government and who are committed to supporting the rule of law in our community. We recognise that there are serious issues to be addressed, including our Budget and public finance challenges. We need to take responsibility for difficult decisions on welfare reform and, of course, to ensure that we work together to tackle all forms of paramilitarism in our society.”
“As other Members have said today, that is an important aim for us to have for our children and young people in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />That concludes my contribution. Again, I commend the sponsor of the Bill for the further progress that is being achieved on it.”
“They are complementary aims essential in a Northern Ireland context. The amendment refers to section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act to ensure that it is complementary with that legislation in terms of Mr Attwood's concerns. Indeed, in terms of a definition, which was raised by Mr Nesbitt, the work of the OFMDFM Committee, of which he is Chair and I am glad to be Deputy Chair, in its inquiry into the Building a United Community strategy has referenced the need for stronger definitions of terms such as "good relations". Work by the Equality Commission has given us clear points of reference in that regard. They have developed a working definition of "good relations" to mean:”
“Mr Agnew, the sponsor of the Bill, deserves great credit for the progress that has been made. He emphasised his encouragement at seeing the cooperation that had gone on between MLAs and the OFMDFM Committee and that he had had from officials from the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister, who also contributed to the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Some specific questions were raised with regard to amendment No 1. Mr Hazzard sought assurances that there was not a conflation of equality of opportunity and good relations. Mr Attwood sought assurances that there was not the creation of a tension between the amendment and section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act. Mr Nesbitt sought assurances in relation to definition. I give those reassurances. Equality of opportunity and good relations are not to be conflated.”
“Mr Nesbitt referred to the need for Departments to take an approach that would see horizontal cooperation rather than vertical-down delivery and the need for more of a focus on outcomes rather than outputs, as can too often be the case. The Minister of Finance and Personnel helpfully supported the aim of the Bill and its dedication to achieving more efficient, cost-effective delivery for children and young people in Northern Ireland and, indeed, tabled amendment No 5 to enhance the good governance of the Bill.”
“I begin by saying that the cooperation that we have seen today demonstrates what can be achieved in the Assembly when we work together. We have to begin by giving sincere credit to the proposer of the Bill, Mr Agnew, and the children's sector for the way that they have generated the cooperation in relation to the Bill. That will see its further progression through the Assembly and hopefully lead to the conclusion of achieving much better-coordinated outcomes for children and young people in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the contributions today. Mr Hazzard emphasised the need to connect the learning and progress that is achieved by the Bill to the Programme for Government. Mr Attwood rightly commended the proposer for his work on the Bill.”