Brian Kingston
North Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“As a DUP member of the Justice Committee, I welcome the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill moving to Second Stage. As other Members have mentioned, we are currently handling three substantial Bills at Justice Committee: the Justice Bill, the amendments on which we completed voting on earlier today after seven days of debate; the Criminal…”
“We recognise, however, that the commissioner is not to be an appeal mechanism for when, for example, the outcome of a trial is considered to be unsatisfactory, such as when an unduly lenient sentence is handed down.”
“The special measures include ensuring that an alleged perpetrator is not allowed to cross-examine the victim of the alleged offence, including in sexual crime cases. <BR /> <BR />We heard comments from the Sinn Féin Member for Mid Ulster in praise of her party's support for victims' human rights.”
“We are aware that the trial process often focuses more on the defendant who is charged with an offence than it does on the victims of the alleged crime. Victims must be at the heart of the justice system, not peripheral to it.”
“We welcome the fact that, through the legislation, the post will be formally established and regulated. <BR /> <BR />The principal aim of the commissioner is to promote the interests of victims and witnesses. The commissioner is intended to have a strategic role rather than to become involved in individual cases. Indeed, clause 8 states:”
“Although the Minister notified us a week ago that he would make his statement, it was disappointing that we received the text of it less than an hour before he was scheduled to give it in the Chamber, which did not help us with scrutiny.”
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“Minister, further to Mrs Dodds's question on the preliminary works that have commenced, which you did not answer, did your predecessor, John O'Dowd, give ministerial direction for those works to commence, and did he get sign-off from the permanent secretary?”
“The shame rightly belongs to all parts of society that permitted women and girls to be placed into institutions where they and their babies were let down by all of us. The Bill will enable us to acknowledge that harm and to face our collective responsibility for it.”
“That is an important difference between this redress scheme and the HIA redress scheme. We welcome the fact that the £10,000 is an admission-based payment and note that a harm-based payment scheme will follow. We welcome the fact that family members, meaning a surviving spouse or partner and children, are all eligible to make an individual posthumous application on behalf of their deceased and to claim £2,000. We are aware of and have learned from truth recovery and redress schemes that have been implemented elsewhere, including in Scotland, Lambeth in London, the Republic of Ireland and Canada. <BR /> <BR />The payment will not undo the hurt and suffering of the past, but it is an acknowledgement of the hurt that has been caused and the lives that have been impacted on. We thank those who have assisted us so far to uncover the truth.”
“<BR /> <BR />The redress scheme is proposed to provide a recognition payment of £10,000 for people who were admitted to one of the relevant institutions during the relevant years, including children who were born in an institution or just after their mother had been there. We welcome the simplified eligibility criteria, and we hope that everyone who can apply will do so. <BR /> <BR />The power to establish a victim and survivor advisory panel to work alongside the inquiry chair is a positive move in ensuring that the voices of victims and survivors are heard throughout the process. <BR /> <BR />We are pleased to note that the initial £10,000 payment will not impact on benefits, take into account other payments or require the individual applicant to sign a waiver.”
“It also states that girls and young women who were the victims of sexual assault and incest were placed in a St Mary's home at the direction of the courts or by a family member. In other cases, individuals referred themselves to one of the St Mary's homes due to a personal crisis. Issues included domestic abuse, alcohol addiction, homelessness or the breakdown of family networks. It is deeply disturbing that so many women and girls, in a wide range of vulnerable circumstances, were sent to those institutions where they experienced harsh conditions and a lack of the specialist support that they should have received.”
“Detailed information on the outcome for the babies is limited. For two homes, records show that just 26% of babies who were born there left the home with their birth mother; 32% of babies were placed in institutional homes; 23% were adopted; and another 15% were listed as going to foster parents. <BR /> <BR />The reasons why women were admitted to Magdalene laundries covered a wide range of circumstances, including referrals by welfare authorities; the courts, as an alternative to imprisonment; family members; clergy; and from mother-and-baby homes, as a form of so-called penitence after giving birth. The report states that some women were sent to the Magdalene laundries because they had learning difficulties.”
“<BR /> <BR />Throughout the evidence that we received, I was left with the impression that whoever's interest was being served by the running of the institutions, it was not that of the women who were admitted nor their babies. It had a lot to do with the abuse of power. The report states:”
“It was also found that there were significantly above-average infant mortality rates; women and girls entered Magdalene laundries by a number of routes, including from mother-and-baby institutions; work in the laundries was carried out without pay; some women spent a lifetime, died and were buried at a laundry; and the institutions were run by Roman Catholic, Protestant, state and charity authorities. It was further found that the most common reason why women were admitted to mother-and-baby institutions was family pressure to hide a pregnancy outside marriage; and, in some cases, the pregnancy was the result of a sexual crime, including rape, incest and unlawful carnal knowledge.”
“Around 20 workhouses in Northern Ireland were operating under the Poor Relief Acts, although more work is needed to detail their inclusion in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Among the key findings in the universities' report were that a stigma was attached to pregnancy outside marriage; women and girls were admitted by families, doctors, priests and state agencies; they were required to undertake tough chores late into pregnancy; they had little preparation for childbirth; some had cold and castigating birth experiences; and many women and girls were separated from their children by the children's being placed in children's homes, fostered out or adopted.”
“When we received briefings at Committee, it was disturbing to learn details of how the institutions operated and the negative impact that that had on so many lives. A substantial foundation for the inquiry has been provided by the research that was carried out for the Northern Ireland Executive by academic experts from Queen's University Belfast and Ulster University, led by Dr Leanne McCormick and Professor Sean O'Connell and published in 2021. Their research found that, between 1922 and 1990, around 10,500 women were admitted to eight mother-and-baby institutions and around 3,000 were admitted to four Magdalene laundries in Northern Ireland. The last mother-and-baby institution closed in 1990, and the last Magdalene laundry closed in 1984.”
“Whilst it is not part of the Bill, the Committee will continue to push for recognition of culpability where institutions should properly contribute to recognition payments.”
“As a DUP member of the Committee for the Executive Office, I welcome the introduction of the Bill to legislate for an inquiry into the practice of mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries and workhouses and to create a redress scheme for those affected by the poor practice in those institutions. This is an important stage in that process. The voices of victims and survivors are vital to ensuring that the legislation is fit for purpose. We value the engagement that we have had with them at the Committee so far and hope that that will continue. <BR /> <BR />The operation of the institutions does not stand up to modern scrutiny. It is our collective aim that the inquiry should get to the truth of what happened, why it happened and who was responsible. We wish to listen to the lived experience of victims and survivors.”
“The arts and creative industries should be accessible to all no matter what your age or background, and funding should be targeted to ensure greater social inclusion across those areas.”
“The heritage, culture and creativity programme that was launched by the Minister last year is the catalyst for making the case for additional funding for the sector at the Executive. That initiative is key to creating policy ideas and building partnerships in the arts and creative industries — something that will be paramount to the sector moving forward. <BR /> <BR />At a local community level, it is important that unionist communities are not left behind when it comes to funding for the arts and creative sectors. Unionist traditions and culture ought to be adequately supported by the Arts Council to ensure parity of opportunity and experience across the Province. It is vital that funding for the arts and creative industries is used to ensure participation in those areas.”
“The Communities Minister has announced an additional £500,000 on top of the Arts Council's opening resource budget this year. He has also increased its opening capital allocation by over 50% to £1·4 million. That investment will benefit people across Northern Ireland and shows our Minister's commitment to the sector. Despite what the Opposition might claim, there is a clear appetite in this party to see increased funding for our arts sector. In addition to the vast investment given to the Arts Council over the past two years, the Communities Minister has provided more than £2 million to his Department's partnership with Northern Ireland Screen. All that investment in local initiatives will have a positive impact on all in society and will continue to increase Northern Ireland's presence on the world stage.”
“It is clear from the debate so far that no one is in any doubt about the importance of the arts and our creative industries sector to Northern Ireland. For a relatively small population, we punch well above our weight when it comes to those sectors, whether it be our fantastic film production industry or our rapidly growing TV sector. Appropriate funding for those areas is vital to maintain Northern Ireland's competitive as well as creative edge. Indeed, my colleague Phillip Brett and I are looking forward to attending the Studio Ulster launch in the Belfast harbour estate in North Belfast on Thursday evening. That is funded by the Belfast region city deal. <BR /> <BR />The DUP is getting on and delivering for the arts sector.”
“We will keep pressure on the UK Government to increase funding to Northern Ireland to ensure that we get a fair amount of investment to allow us to build more affordable housing. That will be done in addition to ensuring that the current commitments translate into additional Executive investment. <BR /> <BR />Building more houses requires a multi-agency response. It is vital that local government, financial bodies and the construction industry establish a working relationship that will enable the faster construction of affordable housing.”
“Housing supply, or the lack of it, is a factor that cuts across a number of policy areas, given its correlation with health and well-being, poverty and educational outcomes. There is a wide range of competing financial needs around the Executive table, and that is recognised, I think, by the Opposition, given that they have tabled motions today calling for more funding for housing, the arts and policing and justice. <BR /> <BR />The DUP has been pushing for a fairer fiscal framework from the UK Government. More funding allocated to Northern Ireland would be greatly beneficial in helping to deliver the housing targets set out in the Programme for Government. We welcome the Chancellor's announcement in the spending review that there will be an additional allocation of £39 billion for affordable housing over the next decade.”
“No, I do not have time. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party amendment highlights some of the practical actions taken by our Minister and new initiatives that he has brought forward to increase housing supply. Therefore, we will support the Ulster Unionist amendment. <BR /> <BR />An extremely constrained financial climate in which there are significant budgetary constraints has not dampened our ambition to meet the targets set out in the Programme for Government, including the launch of the housing supply strategy. Initiatives such as the affordable rent scheme and the FTC funding programme have resulted in meaningful progress being made on the ground. However, we acknowledge that more needs to be done. <BR /> <BR />We will call on the other Executive parties for their backing on those efforts.”
“The Opposition should be under no illusion: the DUP absolutely recognises the acute need for more social housing and, indeed, all tenures of housing across Northern Ireland. Building more homes is a priority for our party and for our Communities Minister. We will champion that need at every possible opportunity to ensure that, going forward, housing supply can better meet demand. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP motion offers nothing — that is the luxury of being in opposition — just cynicism that the three-year social housing target in the Programme for Government could be met.”
“I commend the Minister for bringing forward the draft anti-poverty strategy. It is welcome. Are there any learning opportunities from how Scotland has aimed to tackle child poverty? What is the Minister's assessment of that?”
“That is tomorrow's debate, and I look forward to having the debate then.”
“Does the deputy First Minister agree that there is a need to prioritise the communities that are most affected by increased immigration into Northern Ireland for future good relations and community cohesion resources and programmes?”
“In light of the clarity on timelines that the Minister has provided, does he believe that many who jumped on the bandwagon, including, regrettably, members of the Committee for Communities, were perhaps too eager and, in doing so, diverted their attention and priority away from calling out the violence in exchange for political point-scoring?”
“In a recent briefing, the Committee for Communities was told that 2,551 declared vacancies existed as of March 2025, which is over 20% of posts in that Department. Recruitment has increased over the past year, but so has the number of vacancies. Given that his Department is responsible for the recruitment exercise, can the Minister give a commitment that we will see a reduction in the number of vacancies in future reports?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. In a recent Committee for Communities briefing, we were informed that the estimated loss due to customer fraud across all benefits in 2023 was £163·2 million, which is a substantial amount. The Minister referred to an opportunity — the Committee was told about this — for us to retain an element of savings from fraud of up to 50% by agreement with the Treasury. I urge the Minister to continue those discussions. Is he hopeful that we will be able to achieve a result in the matter?”
“Minister, if a constituent of mine received £100 from your scheme last winter, will that have any impact on their eligibility for the forthcoming winter fuel payment?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Given that numerous reports, including from the World Health Organization, have found no evidence of adverse health effects from 5G masts, will the Minister go further and call on those who can assist the police to bring those responsible for those attacks to justice to provide that assistance to the PSNI?”
“On a point of order, Speaker. I apologise to you and the House because my phone was not on silent at the start of today's proceedings during Prayers.”
“The social housing development programme is one of the areas in the Programme for Government with an actual target. Does the Minister agree therefore that there is, in fact, an onus on the Executive to prioritise capital to it?”
“When the cost of doing business is being considered, the Minister for Infrastructure must look at her Department's role. <BR /> <BR />The DUP recognises the importance of the local hospitality sector in realising Northern Ireland's tourism potential and boosting the economy. Hospitality is our fourth-largest private-sector employer, and it provides economic opportunity throughout our Province. My party colleague Diane Forsythe referred to the long-standing need for reform of business rates, particularly given that high-street businesses that pay business rates on their premises are at a financial disadvantage compared with businesses that operate primarily online. Our amendment therefore calls on the Minister of Finance:”
“The recommendations are clearly stated in the task force report for the various Ministers to carry out. We want to see that work expedited and a joined-up approach adopted to ensure meaningful delivery. There needs to be a cross-cutting approach across Departments, particularly Finance, Economy, Communities and Infrastructure. <BR /> <BR />Our town centres and high streets need a planning system that is fit for purpose so that businesses can thrive and diversify without lengthy delays. It is a well-rehearsed argument that our planning system is not working effectively. How can businesses grow when that is the situation? How often do businesses come to us after having said that they want to expand and invest only to be told that they cannot get planning permission in a timely manner?”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. The Opposition motion refers to the recent cost of doing business report and to the earlier high street task force, which presented its report 'Delivering a 21st Century High Street' in 2022. In that report, the task force made 14 recommendations that spanned a range of Departments and district councils. On 10 October 2024, the Executive Office wrote to relevant Ministers asking them to consider the progress that had been made on those recommendations. In our view, Ministers have their tasks, and, as our amendment states, they should get on with them. <BR /> <BR />The motion calls on TEO to reconstitute the high street task force, despite TEO's having no direct responsibilities in the relevant areas.”
“I commend the Minister for the statement and welcome the many positive announcements in it. In particular, I welcome the funding for Glencairn community hub and the public realm schemes in Glengormley and Shankill gateway. It is disappointing that the Minister has not been given additional resources to tackle welfare fraud, which he touched on. In recent weeks, we have seen horrendous examples of people who have brazenly been cheating the system, sometimes for tens of thousands of pounds. Will the Minister commit to continuing to do all that he can to ensure that those who need and are entitled to support get it and that cheats are caught and dealt with?”
“It takes a certain level of dangerous fanaticism and contempt for the freedom of the press and public free speech to think that that is a story worth boasting about. <BR /> <BR />Adams's comments have served as a reminder of the republican movement's hypocrisy and contempt for the rules and values that it demands of others but thinks should not apply to it. We see that time and time again, including in relation to COVID restrictions and to revealing the truth about victims of republican violence during the Troubles. The court ruling will not change the view that many victims of IRA violence have of Gerry Adams. Our thoughts today are particularly with those who were bereaved and injured by that campaign of violence.”
“<BR /> <BR />The BBC has significant questions to answer about how it found itself in a situation whereby allegations were insufficiently evidenced, leading to licence fee money needing to be spent on damages and legal costs. In the Gerry Adams case, we know clearly that his motivation was, as he said, about "putting manners on" the BBC. The attitude of republicans towards the freedom of the press is nothing new, however. Gerry Adams previously cited Michael Collins's actions in 1916 in response to criticism of republican violence. Those actions were:”
“There has been a great deal of focus on a court ruling in Dublin last week relating to Gerry Adams. Let us be quite clear: the case that Gerry Adams took related to a very specific allegation that the BBC broadcast. The ruling has not, and will not, change Gerry Adams's past, and nor should it change the views of anyone in Northern Ireland about him. We all know the truth. <BR /> <BR />Neither Gerry Adams's actions nor his words have "gone away". Nothing has changed about the vast number of reports detailing his role in the Provisional IRA up to and including his membership of the IRA army council. Gerry Adams has never challenged those claims in court; instead, the former Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead chose to challenge one specific allegation through the Irish Republic's courts system.”
“Does the Member agree that any changes to arrangements under the Belfast Agreement would need the cross-community consent of the Assembly?”
“<BR /> <BR />The DUP supports the retention of a funding model that is carefully balanced and fair for both jurisdictions. If the only alternative funding model that is on the table is one that breaks the balance between the contributions between the Irish Government and the Northern Ireland devolved institutions, we cannot lend our hand to it. Therefore, we will support neither the non-binding motion from Sinn Féin nor the SDLP amendment.”
“I referred to the Belfast Agreement and the successor agreements, including the St Andrews Agreement. I am surprised when I continually hear parties that were champions of the Belfast Agreement say that they want to change the arrangements that are in it. <BR /> <BR />Nobody should be surprised to learn that the Democratic Unionist Party adopts this stance. The principle that the strand two and strand three institutions must be accountable to Stormont was one that we pushed and secured agreement for at St Andrews in order to ensure that arm's-length bodies would not evolve in a way that undermined community relations. If others want to renege on that principle and on previous agreements, that is a matter for them, and they need to be upfront and honest with the public about that.”
“I thank the Member for his point. I am coming on to that.”
“Any revised arrangements must adhere to the cross-community consent principle that is at the heart of the Belfast Agreement, successor agreements and the primacy of strand one. Those are interlocking arrangements. Unilateral attempts to change the current funding provisions and establish ratios that are in breach of that principle risk undermining confidence in devolution among unionists and setting back mutually beneficial relations between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic.”
“As my colleague Diane Forsythe MLA stated, cooperation under the auspices of the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) and its six implementation bodies is predicated on cross-community consent and the safeguards put in place by the Belfast Agreement to ensure that proper accountability exists to the strand-one institution, namely the Northern Ireland Assembly. <BR /> <BR />The DUP fully accepts that it is vital for all traditions in Northern Ireland to be respected and supported through balanced and responsible investment. Work has commenced on the development of the North/South Language Body's corporate plan for 2026-28. That will include consideration of funding priorities and needs, which will need to be considered within the wider budgetary position.”
“Yes. There may be a need for signal boosting and better aerials anyway. I cannot say whether the signal is poor only because of the attacks, but companies should not use the attacks as an excuse not to take action. Those who are responsible for the attacks will know that they cause inconvenience for people. I have no doubt that the attacks are a factor as companies may be reluctant to invest in areas where there will be attacks that result in more costs. Let us hope that it gets sorted.”
“The masts seem to go through the council without being brought to the planning committee because they satisfy the planning criteria. As with most things, people do not want the masts beside them, but they complain if the signal strength or coverage is not sufficient. That coverage is essential for modern life. The masts should be located as sympathetically as possible and not disrupt people's views or be put up right beside their houses, but they need to go up somewhere. <BR /> <BR />I will continue to monitor the situation and check with people who live in the West Belfast constituency whether they are having problems. I certainly support all calls for more attention to be given to improving coverage in that area and for an end to the foolish attacks.”
“People can research the matter for themselves, but all the indications are that there is no health risk. Attacks on masts are criminal activity that should be condemned and reported to the police. The people who are responsible should be prosecuted. I support any calls for information about those who are responsible to be brought forward. The real-life consequence of those attacks is that people do not have a good signal. As phone technology advances, phones need a stronger signal. <BR /> <BR />I have received more complaints from people who object to the aesthetics of the masts. Additional masts have been erected in North Belfast recently. Nobody wants the eyesore close to them, but they receive planning approval.”
“I had not planned to speak, but I will say some words in support of the request for better mobile phone coverage in West Belfast. When I saw that the matter had been raised for debate, I spoke to various people who live in the greater Shankill area of the West Belfast constituency, and they told me that they do not have problems with their phone signal. The problem may affect isolated spots — the Glen Road area has been mentioned — but it does not seem to affect the northern part of the constituency. <BR /> <BR />I have heard about the attacks on masts. Some people believe that the masts are a cause for concern. I have looked into the issue when I have been asked about it. All the research shows that 5G technology poses no risk to human health. The technology is similar to that for Wi-Fi and ordinary phone coverage — it is a radio signal.”
“The fact that there are no dispersal targets in Northern Ireland for asylum seeker accommodation means that, in council areas and district electoral areas, the effects are often disproportionately felt by a small number of households. <BR /> <BR />There is a need to revisit the sense in which current planning and licensing powers leave councils powerless to respond to growing pressures in streets or areas in which there is already an over-provision of HMOs. That should not just be an exercise in preventing future upheaval. We in the DUP stand ready to work in the Executive to that end.”
“Right. <BR /> <BR />At present, planning permission is required as a precursor to a property's being converted and licensed as an HMO. However, the approach to such planning controls varies between councils, leading to inconsistencies and, at times, a failure to guard against the over-provision of HMOs and the corresponding impacts on community cohesion. That is why, in our view, the Minister for Infrastructure must revisit the strategic planning policy statement. Direction must be given to councils to define what is deemed to be over-proliferation, ensuring that planning controls are robust. Belfast City Council has incorporated a specific policy on HMOs into its local development plan, but it is clear that other councils are yet to follow suit.”
“Will I carry on, Principal Deputy Speaker?”