Brian Kingston
North Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“As a DUP member of the Justice Committee, I welcome the Victims and Witnesses of Crime Bill moving to Second Stage. As other Members have mentioned, we are currently handling three substantial Bills at Justice Committee: the Justice Bill, the amendments on which we completed voting on earlier today after seven days of debate; the Criminal…”
“We recognise, however, that the commissioner is not to be an appeal mechanism for when, for example, the outcome of a trial is considered to be unsatisfactory, such as when an unduly lenient sentence is handed down.”
“The special measures include ensuring that an alleged perpetrator is not allowed to cross-examine the victim of the alleged offence, including in sexual crime cases. <BR /> <BR />We heard comments from the Sinn Féin Member for Mid Ulster in praise of her party's support for victims' human rights.”
“We are aware that the trial process often focuses more on the defendant who is charged with an offence than it does on the victims of the alleged crime. Victims must be at the heart of the justice system, not peripheral to it.”
“We welcome the fact that, through the legislation, the post will be formally established and regulated. <BR /> <BR />The principal aim of the commissioner is to promote the interests of victims and witnesses. The commissioner is intended to have a strategic role rather than to become involved in individual cases. Indeed, clause 8 states:”
“Although the Minister notified us a week ago that he would make his statement, it was disappointing that we received the text of it less than an hour before he was scheduled to give it in the Chamber, which did not help us with scrutiny.”
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“I am coming to a close. If the Member wishes to make his own speech, I am sure that the Speaker will bring him in. <BR /> <BR />Regrettably, but in the view of the Committee, including me, rightly, the Committee has reached the recommendation of a sanction of a two-day exclusion from the proceedings of the Assembly for the Member.”
“I recognise the public service of all Members of the Assembly, the personal sacrifices that people make and how their role comes to dominate their lives, and, indeed, the lives of many of their families. It is regrettable that the matter has got to this stage. I note Dr Aiken's comments today and the fact that he has tried to bring a different tone to the matter. However, it is important that there are formal procedures in place to decide on complaints and to uphold the standards and the code of conduct of this —.”
“those of respect and leadership. The Committee agreed with the commissioner's findings that Dr Aiken's conduct was inconsistent with both of those principles. <BR /> <BR />That lack of cooperation is detailed in the report, and it includes the failure to respond to two letters inviting him to attend for interview and failure to attend for interview twice under formal notice to attend. Dr Aiken did provide a written submission, which was considered by the Committee, along with a detailed response from the commissioner. <BR /> <BR />Paragraph 47 of the report states:”
“One of the most significant things detailed in the report is the lack of cooperation by Dr Aiken in the commissioner's investigation. That very much exacerbated the issue, represented a further breach of the MLA code of conduct and resulted in the Committee's recommendation. The report states, at paragraph 44:”
“I speak as a new member of the Committee on Standards and Privileges. Since being appointed to that Committee, I have found that all its members are aware that they have a solemn and impartial duty to perform. That is how all the meetings that I have been present at have been conducted. As we have heard, this report relates to two complaints that were made in the previous mandate. The recommendation before the House has been agreed by the members of the new Committee. <BR /> <BR />The previous Committee's report on the matter is in the public domain and has been for over two years. Therefore, I do not need to repeat what the Committee Chair set out, but I do want to highlight some matters. The complaint by Mr McHugh was upheld by the commissioner.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement and her answers so far. It is very positive to see the East-West Council up and running and flowing from the 'Safeguarding the Union' Command Paper. Will the Minister agree with me that the East-West Council is an important and useful tool for shared learning between the central Government and the devolved regions of the United Kingdom?”
“The danger in all this is that public authorities would feel compelled to adopt a precautionary approach to authorising displays outside the exempted periods, meaning that flags and bonfires would be categorised as hate expression and would be caught up in efforts to stymie those with more malicious intent. As you will have gathered, we will not support the Alliance motion.”
“No, I do not have time, sorry. <BR /> <BR />How would that test remain free of political interference in councils? How would public authorities be held accountable for the unjustified pursuit of those who express or seek to express their identity in a manner that does not incite or invite violence?”
“The suggestion that the police should be compelled to intervene to remove or prevent the erection of flags following every reported incident of flag-flying that is deemed to be contentious or unlawful is fanciful and unworkable. It is more than that: it is entirely at odds with what the Justice Minister and Chief Constable have said about the need to alleviate resourcing pressures in policing in the current budgetary climate. <BR /> <BR />The focus should be on addressing concerns through voluntary action and agreement, not imposing a draconian set of laws that runs contrary to the principle of mutual respect. The sort of system that the Alliance Party advocates would hand public authorities significant power to adjudicate on what constitutes a lawful display of a flag or emblem.”
“Just because some elected representatives think that they would not have influence in those communities does not mean that they should resort to pursuing a legislative approach. <BR /> <BR />The DUP acknowledges that there is a need to clarify the roles and responsibilities of the various public authorities on which those issues have an impact, whether that is DFI, councils or the PSNI. However, adding more confusion by imposing a new authorisation regime for flag-flying and moving from the current permissive enforcement powers to prescriptive enforcement powers that confer a proactive obligation on agencies such as the police to intervene would not be a silver bullet.”
“I do not have time, sorry. <BR /> <BR />It would increase the potential for conflict whilst unjustly fettering a number of fundamental freedoms. The Police Service of Northern Ireland has consistently said that the most effective solution to this issue is negotiation, mediation and engagement within and between local communities. That engagement includes communities working with agencies, including the police, to find locally agreed solutions. Elected representatives may well be able to influence that process. <BR /> <BR />In contrast, an imposed, top-down legislative approach would undermine agreements that have been established in a number of areas across Northern Ireland, setting back relations and damaging opportunities for influence.”
“<BR /> <BR />A decision to move to a blanket ban on the display of our national flag outside specific dates unless authorisation is secured would have a significantly detrimental impact on good relations in communities across Northern Ireland. It would increase —.”
“I thank the Member. Indeed, that is my point. None of that would require new legislation or regulations that criminalised the act of displaying a flag. Let us be clear that, as others have said, the FICT report does not recommend changing the law to provide for a specific right to fly a flag. Nor does it recommend a code of practice that would fetter that right with a suite of new conditions and a specific authorisation process. The commentary contained in the final report was intended to inform future discussions, with a recognition of the fact that any solution must command cross-community support. Sadly, in the absence of political agreement, the Alliance Party has chosen to short-circuit that process.”
“There are principles that I hope we can all support when it comes to the display of flags in public spaces: they should not endanger the safety of road users; no national flag should be defiled or burned; flags should not promote proscribed organisations or glorify violence; they should not be displayed with malicious or illegal intent; they should not be flown in a damaged condition; and they should be flown, where possible, with local agreement.”
“Let me say at the outset that we in the Democratic Unionist Party seek to promote the celebration of culture. We will always defend the dignified display of the flag of our country. However, we will never make excuses for the display of anything that could be associated with a paramilitary organisation or that otherwise glorifies terrorism and violence. <BR /> <BR />We have deep reservations about the direction that is proposed in the Alliance Party motion and will set out our reasons for those in the course of the debate. It is important to state that those who display flags, symbols and emblems should, of course, act in a manner that is responsible and respectful.”
“Will the Minister outline the timeline for the introduction of short-term funding support for parents?”
“— in Belfast, providing 275 additional places. Will the Minister undertake to ensure that the needs in north and west Belfast, including greater Shankill, are fully taken into account in that process of providing a new school?”
“Along with others, I warmly welcome the Minister's statement. It demonstrates how all Departments are seeking to respond to severe and chronic need and how all Departments require an appropriate share of the Budget to respond to that need. I speak as a long-serving governor of Belfast Boys' Model School and of Malvern Primary School, and I know only too well how schools are working hard to respond to the high level of special educational needs. The Minister will be aware that many schools in north Belfast are oversubscribed, including Belfast Boys' Model School, Belfast Model School for Girls, Hazelwood Integrated College and the new Harberton North Special School. Quite frankly, too many post-primary schools were closed in the past, so I welcome his commitment to a new special school —”
“With regard to academic research collaboration, was there any discussion of the impact of the United Kingdom's reassociation with Horizon Europe, including access to funding, which will be beneficial to all partners?”
“Will the Minister tell us more about the engagement that has taken place with the institutions? How hopeful is she that we are reaching an end point to that process?”
“John's father, piper Bill Millin, famously played the pipes while under fire during the D-Day landings in Normandy. A Canadian, he was the personal piper of Simon Fraser, 15th Lord Lovat and commander of the British 1st Special Service Brigade on D-Day, who instructed him to play during the ferocious landing scene. Millin played 'Highland Laddie', 'The Road to the Isles' and 'All the Blue Bonnets are over the Border' as his comrades fell around him on Sword Beach. He later played as commandos marched on Pegasus Bridge, which was captured. Millin's actions on D-day were portrayed in the 1962 film 'The Longest Day'. This commemoration is a fitting tribute, with historic resonance, recognising the brave soldiers who were part of the D-Day landings who sacrificed so much helping to secure the freedom that we all enjoy today.”
“Likewise, I obtained approval for her to play in front of Belfast City Hall at 8.00 am on Saturday, at which we were joined by the High Sheriff of Belfast, Councillor Sammy Douglas. We are very grateful to pipers Patricia Pedlow of Ballydonaghy Pipe Band and David Hanna of Altnaveigh Memorial Pipe Band for ensuring that Northern Ireland participated in the national commemoration for 10 days. During those 10 days, they, between them, also played 'Highland Laddie' in front of Newry town hall, in Bessbrook, in Kilkeel, in Rathfriland, at Newry cemetery, at Lisburn civic centre, at the Barbican Gate in Antrim and at the fort in Royal Hillsborough. <BR /> <BR />The national initiative is led by piper John Millin and his son, Jacob.”
“I recognise and welcome the fact that, last week, the grounds here at Stormont played a part in this year's D-Day 80th anniversary commemorations. Last week, I was contacted by Patricia Pedlow of the Royal Scottish Pipe Band Association Northern Ireland about the pipers' 80-day countdown to D-Day. Pipers are playing the tune 'Highland Laddie' at prominent venues across the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man at 8.00 am for 80 days in the run-up to the 80th anniversary of D-Day on 6 June 2024. I am grateful to officials here at Parliament Buildings who agreed to the request. At 8.00 am last Thursday, Patricia played at the bottom of the steps in front of Parliament Buildings.”
“I thank the Minister for his reply and his commitment. Can he set out his Department's financial support for community development in the Westland area in recent times?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers so far. How much do the current mitigations cost, and what are the projected costs of the additional welfare mitigations highlighted in the report?”
“It is important that young people, within their peer groups, and their parents play a role in making it clear that this is unacceptable behaviour that needs to be brought to an end.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. It is disappointing that we had that upsurge of clashes between groups of young people, particularly during February and March. Sadly, there were also attacks on homes and on some individuals during those months. <BR /> <BR />The Minister has covered the question that I wanted to ask as a supplementary, which was about the cross-sectoral and cross-community work that is essential for addressing this issue, but I ask her to respond to this —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members rightly raised the issue of the quality of private rented sector properties: that needs to be enforced. We need suitable regulation through the environmental health departments in our councils, and they must have those powers. <BR /> <BR />In every action and in every decision that we take in the Assembly, we must be mindful of the risk and likelihood of unintended consequences. We believe that our amendment to increase the notice periods for tenants will, in the first place, increase protections for them without risking the reduction of supply as an unintended consequence.”
“It is a substantial sector and an option that many people choose to avail themselves of. There is a risk, through over-regulation, of causing a reduction in private rental properties. As anyone who talks to local estate agents will know, there is already a massive shortage of private rental properties. I am told that, once a property goes on the website, the agent gets hundreds of requests on the first day. The circumstances of recent years have caused a reduction in that supply through higher interest rates and higher house prices. Research from the Chartered Institute of Housing found that as many as 60% of private landlords could seek to exit the market, particularly where Airbnb and holiday lets may accrue higher rents.”
“Our amendment proposes that, in the first place, the Minister bring forward regulations to put in place much longer notice to quit periods. That, we believe, would make a real and tangible difference to tenants as a first phase in enhancing their rights and protections. As my colleague Maurice Bradley said, there is a need for balance on the matter. Departmental statistics show that 13% of homes in Northern Ireland are in the private rented sector. In comparison, just 4% of homes are rented from housing associations and 10% are Housing Executive rentals. The number of private rentals is therefore virtually equivalent to what we call "social housing". <BR /> <BR />As we have heard in the debate, some just have an ideological objection to private rentals. That is of no help, though, to those who seek properties.”
“In addition, the energy price guarantee in Northern Ireland reduced the typical household's fuel/energy bill by hundreds of pounds. <BR /> <BR />Let me be clear that, whilst I expressed misgivings about some aspects of the motion's wording, the DUP will support it.”
“That is counterproductive, and, whilst all ideas and proposals ought to be weighed up, we should not force the Executive or individual Ministers down a certain route until the consultation process has concluded. <BR /> <BR />The DUP is also clear that the development of a cross-cutting, all-of-government strategy to tackle fuel poverty over the next 10 years can be no substitute for effective and operable methods of providing emergency support to those households that need it most. It is appropriate to recognise the contribution of our membership of the United Kingdom to tackling fuel poverty. Despite being told that it could not and would not happen in the absence of the devolved institutions, households in Northern Ireland received a non-repayable payment totalling £600 last year to help with energy bills.”
“It is critical that there is close engagement and consultation with those who are personally affected by the existing affordable warmth scheme. <BR /> <BR />The proposal for a fuel poverty task force has been put forward in the motion with the best of intentions, but we are not convinced that it will provide added value, given that the Department has already set out a robust plan to engage and consult with communities, households, experts and stakeholders. Some events have already taken place in the consultation. Similarly, we are not persuaded that there is merit in prejudging the outcome of the consultation processes that have commenced by passing a motion in the House that dictates that policy such as a cap on energy prices must be part of the final strategy.”
“In our low-income working households across Northern Ireland, which include many front-line workers, parents sometimes are forced to choose between whether to heat or eat or to go without so that their children's most basic needs can be met. That is not acceptable. The squeezed middle should not continue to miss out on multiple layers of support. That has to be addressed as part of the arrangements for any new energy efficiency scheme. <BR /> <BR />In the coming weeks and months, a series of workshops and focus groups will be held with stakeholders to dig deeper into what form the new strategy and scheme should take, nail down a definition of fuel poverty and discuss how and by whom any new interventions should be led.”
“That equated to an increase in the number of households in fuel poverty from 160,000 in 2016 to 179,000 in 2021. Overall, the combined effect of fuel price increases and energy efficiency improvements was a net increase in the mean household fuel costs of 8% between 2016 and 2021. The largest change in fuel prices was seen for electricity, with standard electricity prices increasing by 29% between 2016 and 2021. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that the 2011 strategy was somewhat overtaken by legislative developments on energy and climate change, and it is crucial that policy development takes account of those targets in a way that is fair and compassionate towards vulnerable and low-income households. Financial stress is not limited to those who are in receipt of benefits.”
“The DUP fully endorses the need for a new long-term and cross-cutting approach to tackling fuel poverty. Rocketing energy prices have brought renewed focus to the crisis facing many, but, in truth, those problems have been building for some time. The Communities Minister is leading the process of preparing a new strategic approach to delivering real change in the fight against fuel poverty. Those ambitious plans will see the public consultation on a new strategy launch in the autumn. For context, the Housing Executive commissioned the Building Research Establishment (BRE) to model estimates of fuel poverty up to 2021. The study was published in October last year and concluded that there had been an increase in the rate of fuel poverty from 22% of households in 2016 to around 24% of households in 2021.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister, in response, highlighted that the economic shocks of recent years have been experienced most by lower-income families. He is committed to doing what he can, through his Department, to drive down poverty levels so that children can live happy, healthy and productive lives. He pointed out that there are mitigations in place that cost £45 million per year. He highlighted the costs of ending the two-child limit at £56·4 million per annum, in addition to IT and staff costs. He said that he expects that the report that he requested will be brought back by the end of the calendar year, if not sooner. He also reiterated that he is wholly committed to reducing poverty and child poverty, as indeed is my entire party.”
“— an in-year commitment during the financial year, a £56·4 million cost, plus IT and staff costs. These things have to be done in a way that is sustainable and within the finances that we have available. To find possibly £100 million in-year would be hugely damaging to other public services, and your party — all parties — are highlighting needs in the public sector. This is not ignoring the issue. It is trying to have a considered and planned way forward. <BR /> <BR />Colin McGrath said that the two-child limit was a uniquely cruel and punitive policy, and also mentioned that up to a quarter of children here are living in poverty. Gerry Carroll said that the entire benefits system is not fit for purpose and that, in his view, the Assembly should not implement any changes to the benefit system that are agreed at Westminster.”
“The problem is that the original proposal is looking for —”
“Of course, we are dealing with an imperfect situation, and a rule that we all agree is punitive and is punishing larger families. <BR /> <BR />Robbie Butler said that the cost of inaction was too great to bear. Kellie Armstrong wanted to see the better start larger families payment actively brought forward, and said that she would be looking for evidence of that. She said that we needed certainty of the consequence of funding in the absence of Treasury funding and that the amendment at least gave better direction, and that Alliance would support it.”
“<BR /> <BR />Through our amendment, instead of requiring the Minister to introduce the mitigation by the end of this financial year from the block grant from which we have to run public services in Northern Ireland, we are charting a way forward with a view to the better start larger families payment, and the recommendations regarding that. <BR /> <BR />We thank the other Members for their comments. Colm Gildernew spoke about other mitigation measures. He pointed out that the Executive have to meet the associated costs from the block grant, and that we needed to be realistic about costs and timescale. Sian Mulholland, likewise, was concerned about the cost implications of breaking parity with benefit funding from the Treasury. She said that she would give lukewarm recognition to the amendment, which we will accept in the circumstances.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank all Members for their comments. We thank the SDLP, the Opposition party, for bringing the motion. Although we have proposed an amendment, I would point out to them that the majority of the wording of their motion will be kept. Our amendment is towards the end of the motion, and on the best way to address these issues. We agree with the SDLP that we acknowledge the findings of the Audit Office report on child poverty, that nearly half of children living in relative poverty come from families with three or more children. We recognise the pernicious role that the universal credit two-child limit has played in increasing the number of children in poverty, and we understand that the majority of those negatively impacted by the two-child limit are working families.”
“We make no apologies for seeking fairness for all families and for guarding funding for our vital public services.”
“It is also worth noting that negotiations around a new fiscal framework are ongoing with the Treasury, and it would be counterproductive not to wait and assess the outcome of that process before making future decisions affecting those in receipt of universal credit and other benefits. Longer-term certainty on Budgets will be required to allow a strategic approach to all the Executive's priorities. <BR /> <BR />This is, essentially, a debate about where best to place our financial resources at a time when our front-line public services are experiencing massive shortfalls. We could not support redirecting tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of pounds from other much-needed front-line services in order to cover additional welfare benefits that are not funded by the Treasury.”
“The aim is not to bring it forward at the end of the financial year, but it must be brought forward by then. Certainly, we all agree that, as the leader of the Opposition said, improving people's quality of life is what motivates all of us in politics, and it is what we all wish to do every day. <BR /> <BR />The Minister has already informed Members that any report produced will also present future proposals. It is important that we respect that process, provide space for intensive engagement with experts, stakeholders and claimants and resist the temptation to pre-empt the outcome.”
“That is the basis of our amendment. <BR /> <BR />We also point out that the Department for Communities is under a statutory obligation to produce a review of current welfare mitigations by the end of the financial year.”
“How does it reasonably expect Ministers to fund the removal of the two-child limit on top of the other demands? Will it deprive our schools of that money? Will it put the pay rises for health workers on hold? Will it kick an affordable childcare policy into the long grass? <BR /> <BR />The Minister for Communities and the Executive have a duty to be fiscally responsible, given the current budgetary pressures and being mindful of the need to provide vital support to vulnerable and low-income households in every corner of our Province. The independent advisory panel report has provided a range of recommendations, including offsetting the two-child limit with a separate better start payment for larger families. It would be a dereliction of duty for the Minister and his officials not to consider the merits of those proposals in detail.”
“I start by thanking the Opposition party for the motion, the majority of which we support. However, as Mr O'Toole referenced, we wish to amend part of it, and I will explain the reason for that during my speech. <BR /> <BR />For context, the UK Government introduced the two-child policy in 2017, and, under the principle of parity, the same measures automatically applied in Northern Ireland. If the Assembly were to unilaterally abolish the two-child limit, it would mean funding those extra benefit payments out of the block grant that we receive, which would place considerable and recurring constraints on Executive spending for vital public services. The Opposition party is actively calling for our Executive to ring-fence funding in a host of other areas.”
“— who were entitled to them but who previously did not avail themselves of that vital service. <BR /> <BR />I have one more point to make, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Department also provides £6·6 million to support the independent advice sector every year, helping thousands more.”
“A focus on prevention, early intervention and better management of chronic conditions can help unlock opportunities in the labour market for those children who find themselves trapped in poverty. It is also the case that the longer that children are in poverty, the larger that the attainment and health gap between them and their peers is. That highlights the urgency of interventions. More affordable childcare will also enable more parents to return to work, thus raising household incomes. <BR /> <BR />It is important to recognise the work that the Department for Communities is actively doing to address poverty and to support the most disadvantaged. The Make the Call service assisted over 11,500 people in 2022-23, ensuring that tens of millions of pounds in additional benefits were accessed by those —”