S. Dhanabalan
Singapore
“Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification. I said in my intervention on Tuesday that the general election is the right forum to determine the electorate's support because it puts the issue in a total and correct context.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, with hindsight, of course, we can be very wise. But since one of the three islands was excluded, it was a substantial reduction in the scope of works. The assessment then, which I agreed with, was that if you called for a re-tender, you would get a substantially reduced tender.”
“To the extent that we can, we should work with countries that have a common interest, to come together and form economic groupings targeted at trade liberalisation. We have started this process within ASEAN under the AFTA Scheme. Economic linkages in groupings like APEC are also growing in significance.”
“Mr Speaker, all these questions make a lot of sense when the events are finished, and you look back. But the officer looking at the case at that time had to deal with the facts as they were at that time.”
“ASEAN countries agreed to publish all the Inclusions and Exclusions lists, as well as the full list of actual tariff reductions. The ASEAN Secretariat had since followed up and released, as scheduled, on 1st November 1993, the publications showing these lists.”
“Kallang Theatre was closed for five months in 1992 for cyclical maintenance and upgrading costing $3 million. This included a major upgrading of the toilets, recarpeting the auditorium, rewiring and repainting.”
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“We do, for the retrofitting market, give market information and advisory services as well as tax incentives for retrofitting and renovation costs which encourage building owners to retrofit their buildings. The volume of maintenance work has been increasing very steadily and this is to be expected. As the stock of buildings increases, of course, the maintenance volume will increase. It is estimated to be about $780 million per year but I think this will increase quite sharply. Many, many professionals and workers are engaged in renovation, retrofitting and maintenance of buildings and we will continue to give advice for professionals to go into this industry. The Member for Bo Wen raised an important point about the HDB's staff and how they will be affected by the establishment of town councils. First of all, town councils cannot be established overnight. It has to be done over a period of years and in that period, of course, HDB and the Ministry of National Development are very concerned that there should be sufficient security for the present HDB staff. With the present state of the maintenance and management of property industry in Singapore, there is much scope for trained people in this area. The HDB itself will be forming a company to offer management services, maintenance services to the town councils. I can envisage many HDB staff being seconded, in the first instance, to this company in order to provide the services. But there is an increasing demand for such people in the market. I personally do not doubt that the highly trained and professional people, not only at the top level but at all levels, who are needed for good maintenance of any real estate development can find jobs.”
“We organize overseas missions to meet officials and businessmen in other countries to try and identify opportunities which they can then follow up later. Then we have the Market Development Assistance Scheme where the Government provides a dollar-for-dollar grant in marketing for overseas work. As a result of these efforts, export orders secured by our construction firms have been, in fact, rising steadily from $188 million in 1985 to $355 million in 1987. Though it is a significant increase I think we must accept that it is small compared to the total construction activity and the total that we can in fact get in the export market with the expertise and experience that we have. So we need to make continuing efforts in this direction. As far as the local market is concerned, the CIDB has identified building maintenance and retro-fitting as the growth area where professionals will be required. In the case of building maintenance, as buildings become more and more complex and the kind of equipment in buildings become more and more sophisticated, engineers and technicians are needed not just to design and erect and construct but also to maintain. There will be a growing need for trained people, for professionals and technicians in the maintenance market. Retro-fitting is restoration, renovation and improvement of existing buildings. This is a growth area because there are many buildings which were built maybe as late as 10 years ago which are already outdated in terms of current standards demanded by our users and in terms of the current level of technology. So retro-fitting is a growth area and this should be an area which will offer opportunities for professionals and others who are involved in the construction industry.”
“Sir, on the point about what is the Government doing to help professionals in the construction industry who are affected by the downturn in the industry, we, through the Construction Industry Development Board, are trying to open up new markets and develop new growth areas for the industry. But whatever we can do, which I will detail later, the point still remains that these are professionals who are quite well educated and they must make their own effort to look for alternatives and explore new markets and new growth areas. The Government can only assist. These are not, as it were, poorly educated, unskilled workers who require considerable Government assistance to train them and to place them in jobs. Several measures have been taken to assist the industry as a whole to participate actively and successfully in the export market for the construction industry. First of all, we are aware that many of the contractors and even professional firms do not have the full range of professional expertise which they need to put together in order to make a bid for a market overseas. So we have a system of attaching public sector professionals for export construction services. In other words, professionals who are already in the PWD, URA, PSA and so on, ie, in any of the Government departments or statutory bodies, can be loaned for particular projects for which our contractors or developers or professionals bidding in the export market. Secondly, we provide them basic market information on overseas projects and the basic material costs for these projects to help those who want to bid in the export market to calculate more accurately their tenders.”
“It does not mean that the other types of flats will not be subsidized. In fact, as I pointed out, all the flats are subsidized but the subsidy for the smaller 3-room flat is higher. Over a period of time, we will have to decrease the subsidy. But I think this will have to be done over a long period of time. And I explained yesterday that if there are no increases in fuel, material, wage cost and if inflation remains low, there is no reason for an across-the-board price increase of HDB flats.”
“What is the point of giving a breakdown? The point is, as I said, 98% of the flats are subsidized, in the definition which I have given and which I have stated is the only rational and logical definition. It is very easy to talk about making profits, book subsidy and be irresponsible. I would ask the Member for Potong Pasir who, I think, usually is quite rational and quite reasonable, to go back and think carefully about the method that we have adopted which is not to make the purchaser pay the full cost. We have never said that the purchaser has paid the full cost. But the market value is a guide towards which we must finally arive at. Maybe the Member for Potong Pasir thinks that there is a fairer and better way of ensuring that we do a proper allocation of our housing resources for the present generation as well as safeguard future generations' interest. If after he has studied carefully what I have said and he still wants to bring up new arguments, I am prepared to entertain them when we come to the subhead on the HDB, if there is time. Regarding the GPC recommendations, I must apologize to the Member for Punggol that I did not acknowledge the recommendations. It happened that the recommendations of the GPC coincided with the thinking of the Ministry as well as the Ministerial Committee. And since so many different bodies or committees were thinking along the same line, I overlooked the fact that this particular recommendation came from the GPC. So I want to make due acknowledgement now. As far as full home ownership is concerned, as I said yesterday, we want to ensure that our construction programme and the pricing of HDB flats will enable Singaporeans to afford at least the basic of a 3-room flat.”
“And every HDB flat sold in 1986-87 was below cost; only 2% covered the full cost. Before that, it was 100%. Every HDB flat purchaser pays less than what the market value is.”
“I do not think the Member for Potong Pasir is incapable of understanding. I think he does not want to understand. As it is said, there is none so blind as those who do not want to see. I have gone to great lengths yesterday and I would seriously urge the Member to study what I have said and try and understand the purpose behind the pricing policy of HDB. I have already explained very clearly why it is not possible to use historical value and that we will not be able to do a proper, rational, allocation of public housing resources in the present generation, let alone take care of the interests of future generations. We can be very popular, as I said, by giving away land but we will not be doing Singaporeans a favour. The other point is the question of land acquisition. I did make the point yesterday that Government has been acquiring land at very low values, 1973 values and now 1986 values. Let us not pretend that we are acquiring from a large number of people and then redistributing it also to a large number. In fact, we are acquiring from a very small number of people. Even the resettlement cases which the Government deals with usually do not arise out of acquisition of land which belongs to the resettlement case. Very often, the land is Government land on TOL or on lease. And when Government needs it, the tenants are resettled. Or the land is acquired from a big landowner and the people occupying the land are not the owners. The owner is compensated. The tenants are resettled. The number of people from whom we acquire land is very small. This is a Robin Hood act, as the Prime Minister pointed out once. It is a Robin Hood act. We have taken land from a few landowners and redistributed it.”
“So the question of whether HDB makes a profit does not arise. As I said, at the end of every year, HDB totes up what it costs to build its flats, which means construction cost, development and infrastructural costs, the land price that it pays the Government. It totes what it gets by way of its sales receipts, and there is a very big deficit which is shown in the budget, and it runs into billions of dollars. If the Member for Potong Pasir does not want to understand, then of course there is no way I can make him understand. An hon. Member: He can't understand!”
“I am not giving way, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir,”
“If the HDB purchaser thinks that he is paying the HDB more than what he can pay on the market, he would not buy from the HDB. HDB is not the only developer in the market. It is very simple. There are private developers. They build apartments. Some of them look very much like HDB apartments. People are free to buy those apartments.”
“Or it can be to anybody. So there is no purpose in trying to pursue this point, what is the cost? I have already said that I have asked the HDB to let us know what the historical values are, just for us to note. But HDB has used the market value as a guide to price its flats. And it is very obvious and quite conclusive from the evidence I gave yesterday that 98% of the flats are priced below what they are worth on the market. And people know.”
“It is not different. The point I am making is that you would be giving a benefit to somebody which he would not get if he were to go into the market to get that particular service or that particular asset.”
“It is not. As I said, they have to exercise judgment but it is not just completely arbitrary. I have already explained yesterday why we had to use market value of land. But I did make it very clear that HDB prices do not cover the market value of land, which is why 98% of the flats completed have a subsidy element. And I made it very clear what we mean by subsidy. I would urge the Member to get his thinking right. It is not a question of whether you spend money out of pocket. The point I made was that as long as HDB sells its flats at a price lower than what the purchaser has to pay in the market, there is a subsidy. And this has been demonstrated again and again by HDB purchasers being able to sell on the market at a price higher than what they paid the HDB. That is the only rational, logical definition of subsidy. I made this point once before. If the Member were to give his son a house which he had bought 10 years ago, either free or even at cost, would he not think that he has done his son a favour? Mr Chiam See Tong: That is different.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Member for Potong Pasir wants to know whether the HDB will make public the value of individual lots. Of course, the HDB does have details of the value of individual lots. But I must take very strong objection and, I think, the profession of valuers in Singapore will take very strong objection to his suggestion that the value of land is completely arbitrary. It is not arbitrary. It is not up to the HDB to peg it to any level that it wants. As I mentioned yesterday, I would suggest that the Member for Potong Pasir should try and get hold of a copy of the text, and if he cannot, I will let him have a copy of the text of what I said yesterday: the value of the land that the HDB purchases is fixed by the Chief Valuer. There are very specific criteria and approach that valuers use in order to arrive at the value of a piece of land. Land is sold and bought all over Singapore all the time, not just private land but also Government land. And using the sale prices of land between willing buyer and willing seller, valuers are able to make the kind of adjustments necessary to arrive at the value of land in other areas or adjacent areas. So it is not arbitrary. In fact, valuers have claimed that though they exercise judgment, their approach is a rather scientific and rigorous one.”
“Sir, I would just like to make a very brief reply to the Member for Punggol on the point he raised about the need to integrate our road networks and also to ensure that the New Towns are inter-connected. The planning of the road network has always been considered on the basis of linking all the major traffic generators such as residential towns, industrial areas and commercial centres. When the major part of the expressway network is completed by the mid-1990s, there will be an efficient inter-town linkage among all the HDB New Towns. In fact, the transportation plan within the HDB New Towns, as planned by HDB, is integrated fully with the PWD's network of expressways and major arterial roads. For example, Hougang New Town is connected to the Central Expressway by Hougang Avenue 2 and to the PIE by Hougang Avenue 3. So there is, in fact, sufficient attention paid to this aspect. Sir, as we still have probably about 10-15 minutes on this item, I thought it would be a good opportunity to allow the Member for Potong Pasir to raise the questions which he wanted to raise yesterday.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the Financial Year 1st April 1988 to 31st March, 1989, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.”
“Sir, as the Member himself pointed out, the special incentive is either 5% downpayment for flats which are smaller than 4-room Simplified or 10% for those which are bigger. This is a very low figure. In fact, if I may just give some figures, in the case of 3-room Simplified flats in the New Town, the price is $26,800. Let us say, a person were to buy a 3-room Simplified flat, a 5% downpayment is only about $1,300. It is a very small figure and normally he should have it in the CPF and, if he does not have it in the CPF, anybody who wants to commit himself to such a long-term commitment should at least be able to raise the $1,300. For those who have to be relocated, in other words, they do not voluntarily want to move but because we want to knock down the block of flats we have to move them out, we have waived even this downpayment. But for the others we have kept it very low, and I am not sure whether reducing it to zero is really going to help in such cases. So unless a very good case can be made out, I would not look into it. Unless Members from their own experience can make out a good case that this incentive can really help and that this will not mean that people will enter into obligations which they cannot keep, I will not reopen the issue.”
“But as a landlord, and in a wider context, if we want our public housing programme to continue to succeed the way it has succeeded, people must realize that the HDB, like any other landlord, must be paid. People who buy flats must pay their instalments on time. People who rent flats must pay their rentals on time. They cannot think that they can get away by not paying the service and conservancy charges, or their rentals, or their instalment payments. We must vigorously enforce financial discipline on those who are HDB residents, either purchasers or tenants. Then we have this very important problem of motor cycles parking in the void decks, raised by the Member for Chong Boon. Yes, I am aware. It is not that I am not aware of this problem. I am aware of this problem and the HDB will be making rules under the HDB Act to empower the Board to take enforcement action against the owners of such motor cycles. If these rules are not sufficiently strong and sufficiently effective, certainly we will consider amending the Act to make the rules effective. So this matter is in hand. I think I have covered all the points, Mr Chairman.”
“We even have cases where people have submitted plans to renovate their flats but who have not paid the HDB their monthly instalments. Some people tend to think that they can pay HDB last, and the majority of people who are in arrears belong to this category - they either cannot manage their finances well or think they can put off HDB. But there is a small minority who truly have either temporary financial problems or even long-term financial problems. Of course, each case must be looked at on its own merits. The Member mentioned the story of somebody who died of a heart attack, and the son got crippled, and only one son is working. I do not know the details. If he were to give me the details, I might be able to look at it. But I must say this. I have received many hard luck stories which are very convincing. After all I am also a Member of Parliament and I have my own constituents who come and see me and, as a Minister, many people write to me. In some cases, HDB investigates, and if HDB is persuaded that they have a case, we send it along to the Ministry of Community Development because they have the experts, the social workers, who know how to question and how to investigate and how to find out whether the story is true. When they go through the case, it often comes back with quite a different story. Only a very small percentage are confirmed to be really cases worthy of assistance. While we are prepared to look at every case - I am not saying we will dismiss the cases put up to us by the MPs - I think we have to take a very hard look at these cases to determine who really requires assistance.”
“For example, in the case of the multi-tier family housing scheme, out of the 65,941 sales applicants only 1,870, that is just about less than 3%, come under this scheme who will have priority when HDB flats are ready for allocation. There is some displacement of normal applicants but it is not as big as Members may think it is. The Member for Yuhua raised the question of tender of shops. It is true the Board does establish reserve prices, as is the practice with any real estate owner when he sells or rents shops. But, in fact, the reserve prices in most cases, which are fixed at about 80% of what the market price is, are a guide to tenderers not to tender too high. They will know then what is the market price. Very often they tender at many multiples of the reserve price, which surprises me. But there are very few cases where they do tender less, and then of course we do not sell the shops or rent the shops. But where the reserve price is higher than what the tenders are, the Housing Board will re-tender at lower reserve prices. The Member mentioned that some shops have been vacant for a long time. If she were to give me the details, I would be able to inquire and give her a direct answer. The Member for Toa Payoh talks about the financial difficulties and the problems of rental arrears and whether the HDB could be more compassionate. To be very honest with the Member, my fear about the HDB is not that they are not compassionate enough, but that they are too compassionate, because when I look at the figures of rental arrears, I do get somewhat concerned. Those who owe HDB rentals fall into two categories. The first category are people who are very poor at financial management or who think that the HDB should be the last to be paid; and this is not unusual.”
“I think it is important for Singaporeans to be allowed to do these calculations for themselves. We are constantly being told that the Government is interfering too much in the calculations and in the lives of Singaporeans. But when we allow them to make their own calculations and their own estimates and to act on their own, they want Government assistance. I think you cannot have it both ways. They must make their own calculations. As to whether we can advise MPs of the redevelopment plans for areas which are now the subject of relocation, as I said, the HDB is now working on these plans. As and when the HDB is ready to build, we certainly will be able to advise the Members of Parliament. The Member for Bukit Timah raised the question of priority allocation affecting the waiting time for flats. Priority, by its very definition, means that some people are going to jump queue. In fact, that is the whole intention, and the more successful the priority scheme is the more people are going to be affected. When we decide the kind of cases that require priority, we have to consider very carefully whether the particular social objective that we want to achieve is important enough for us to give priority. Having said that, we are also aware, of course, that we should not allow priority cases to hog or take up the whole allotment when a particular block comes up for sale. There is a limit. The limit is 50%. Not more than 50% of any one particular allocation will go to priority cases. But, of course, this can still give rise to unhappiness because there are people who have been on the waiting list who will be affected. As I said, this is something inevitable. But the problem is not as serious as we may think it is.”
“This is in the interest of the people as a whole and I do not think it is in the interest of our society that we should just get rid of the flats as quickly as possible. The Member for Toa Payoh raised a question of renting 2-room flats to those who are now being relocated from 1-room flats. The problem here is that we do not have enough 2-room flats. As a general policy, where certain criteria are satisfied, we are prepared to allow some of them to be relocated in 2-room rental flats. But Members must be aware that there are very few 2-room rental flats that are available for us to offer to those who are affected by relocation. Regarding shops which are in areas which are being cleared, naturally their business is affected. But I think these shopkeepers have to make their own commercial decisions. It is impossible for the Government to assure business for the shops in any one particular area. In the commercial world, for example, we all know what happened to High Street. It was the premier shopping centre of Singapore at one time. As it ceased being the premier shopping centre, of course, the remaining shops had very little business and they had to go somewhere else where there was business. The same rule must apply to shopkeepers in the HDB estates. They are just tenants of HDB. They have to make their own commercial calculations. If the business is not there, they should give up the shops and go somewhere else. The question of resettlement priority does not arise. It does not arise because they are mere tenants on a month-to-month basis at the present moment. Later they will be converted to term tenants - one, two and three years. They must be allowed to make their own commercial calculations.”
“Therefore, the Housing Board will have to take some time to work out the programme and test the market slowly, as it builds new flats in these areas which are cleared. So there will be no quick building of flats in areas where we have knocked down the 1-room flats. I think we need to take our time, we need to plan well, and we need to get the maximum out of these areas. Therefore, Members here should accept that they cannot expect to see a sudden sprouting up of new blocks in the areas where 1-room blocks have been knocked down. The Member for Cairnhill asked about the SIT flats in Farrer Road - that there are vacancies there and they are not being rented out. This area again is a very valuable area. It is now occupied by old rental flats and it is necessary that we put the land to good use. We would like to redevelop the area and, if we want to redevelop, of course, we should not fill the area with new tenants. So as and when the flats are vacated, the intention is to leave them vacant so that, as people move out and upgrade and buy their own flats, we will be able to knock down the blocksand redevelop the whole area. That is the reason why we have not been renting out these flats to those who want them. For the same reason, we cannot convert them into old folks homes, as was suggested. As for Anthony Road flats, again the Member for Cairnhill asked:when are we going to sell them? I think Members are aware that the rentals of these flats have been brought down to market levels. There is now a higher occupancy. As soon as the market is right, they will be sold. As a developer we have the responsibility. As a Government we get the best.”
“The involvement of the private sector is a key requirement for the success of the conservation programame. This is because 75% of the areas identified for conservation are in private ownership. The response from the private sector so far has been encouraging. How quickly the conservation programme will progress will depend on the continued participation of the private sector. Another key component in developing a City of Quality is the active involvement of people in the planning process, not just people in the Government and the Planning Department but of citizens as a whole. It is with this reason in mind that my Ministry has started a programme to consult the people before the more important plans are finalized. The Civic and Cultural District area is the first such plan. In this way our development plans can reflect the aspirations of our people and the way we want to shape our physical environment. The public consultations programme provides the opportunity for members of the public, developers and professionals, and others who have an interest in our City to contribute their ideas and to make their comments. Can I now take some of the other points? The Member for Toa Payoh raised the problem of upgrading the old HDB estates. As the old Housing Board housing estates are demolished, the intention is, of course, to build new flats, but the actual schedule and programme has not been finalized. It is important, as I said just now in my statement on the pricing of HDB flats, that we put these areas to good use. It is important that we know what is the actual relative value of these lands that will be available.”
“Two MRT stations will serve the Marina South, around which intensive commercial developments are planned. But these are long-term plans. There is, of course, an interim plan. In the interim plan, most of the land will be used for recreational and leisure uses. We are selling the land on 20-year leases so that they can be put to interim use and at the end of the 20 years we will be more ready to build the long-term city in Marina South. Regarding conservation, which was also a subject touched on by the Member for Punggol, the Strategic Planning Division will also oversee the conservation programme. The objective of the conservation programme is to preserve our heritage and give Singapore a distinctive character as an Asian city. Under the conservation programme, we have identified about 100 hectares or some 4% of the City centre as historic areas which should be preserved. The Government's role in conservation is to designate the areas to be conserved, stipulate the conservation guidelines, initiate pilot projects and provide the infrastructure, such as pedestrian malls and car parks. To this end, the Government has appointed the URA as the National Conservation Authority. Since the conservation plan at the end of 1986 was announced, the URA has initiated the Tanjong Pagar Conservation Project. I think Members who have driven past the area will see work in progress. The URA has announced a draft Master Plan for the Civic and Cultural District which I referred to just now. It will soon be announcing the Draft Guidelines for Chinatown, Kampong Glam and Little India, which are all identified as conservation areas. Pilot projects in these areas will be launched this year and in the next few years.”
“An example of such a plan is the draft Master Plan for the Civic and Cultural District that we announced recently. This is now open for public comment and for public suggestions. To give another example. Our planners are currently looking at the Rochester Park/Ayer Rajah area, which will be of interest to the Member for Pasir Panjang. The assets of the area, like the attractive residential estates, ie, Rochester Park, Nepal Park, Wessex Estate and so on, and the proximity to Kent Ridge Science Park and the NUS Complex as well as the NUH, all lend themselves to alternative development options rather than extending the HDB estate. If we had followed the old thinking, we would just expand the HDB estate and put more public housing there. But because we are now looking at the possible alternative uses for the land in the long-term perspective, we can now begin to think of other options. Similar plans for conservation areas and reclaimed land, like Marina South, are being reviewed. Such plans take into account the need to phase development in accordance with our needs, including interim use. In the case of Marina South, I would like to take the opportunity to inform the House, since the Member for Punggol raised it, our long-term plan for the area. The long-term plan is really to expand the City centre, Shenton Way, Raffles Place into Marina South to form a commercial core. It will form an enlarged Downtown. The area south of the Expressway will have a mix of commercial and residential uses. There will be a coastal park a nature park, for leisure and recreational activities. In addition, there will be a substantial zone for institutional use, such as cultural and civic uses.”
“So we have needs for housing, industry, transportation, recreation, defence: all these needs to be met within a very small area that we have. Because these are needs of a nation. As I have mentioned in the past, there may be cities in the world with the population and area of Singapore, but these are cities in a larger nation and uses such as defence and others are found outside the city. But we are just a small island, we have to find land for all these uses. This creates a very difficult and complex problem. To achieve our objectives, we have set up in the Ministry a Strategic Planning Division. This Division, which was set up in October last year, will play a coordinating role in meeting land needs of the various Government departments and Ministries as well as the private sector. There will be a proper system of land allocation which will take into account the planning evaluation of the Chief Planner, the operational requirements of requesting departments as well as budgetary considerations. The Strategic Planning Division will also oversee the review of the Singapore Concept Plan which will set the long-term development strategies for the whole island so that land for major development needs can be safeguarded. We have to think long-term. We have to think in terms of the population size that we will have in the years to come. And we have to think, as I mentioned just now, in terms of our future generations. The Concept Plan is developed in greater detail into development guide plans for each area. In working out such a plan, our planners take into account the objectives and desired land use for the area while preserving the special assets and characteristics of the area.”
“First of all, I think it will be useful - since the Member for Punggol has raised this question of building a better city and planning for a more gracious and attractive city - if I inform the House about some of the thinking of the Ministry on planning and conservation. As with public housing, so with urban planning - the emphasis is optimum use of scarce land resources, within limited resources, to achieve a City of Quality and a City of Excellence. This is a very complex and difficult process. First, as I have already mentioned, land supply cannot be increased significantly. Reclamation is currently done on an estimated contour depth of 5 metres. We are fast exhausting these areas, and as we move into deeper contour depths, the cost of reclamation will increase and we will also be encroaching on available anchorage areas and shipping lanes which, of course, are very important if Singapore is to continue to be the kind of port that it is today, the leading port in the world. Secondly, with our limited land resources, we must satisfy many competing needs for housing, industries, transportation, recreation and defence. In fact, just now when I was speaking about market value of land for public housing, there was one aspect that I did not touch upon. It is not just merely a question of determining what is the market value of residential land but what is actually the economic value of the land. What are the alternative uses that the land can be put to? Should it be put to defence uses so that we can be assured of our security? Should it be put to water catchment areas so that we can increase our self-sufficiency in water? Should it be put to industrial use? These are all questions which any responsible government has to grapple with.”
“The Government was also aware that successful public housing means more than building high-rise apartments. All the other facilities that go to make a thriving community had to be put in place. Town and neighbourhood centres with shops and markets, bus interchanges, recreational facilities like parks and stadiums and industrial parks for clean, labour-intensive industries to provide jobs for the residents in the HDB estates all these were built by the HDB as part of its responsibilities. The Government had also to take action to encourage the emergence of leadership at the grassroots level by establishing Citizens' Consultative Committees, Residents' Committees and build- ing community centres so that an HDB estate is not just a collection of flats but a living, thriving, cooperating community. The HDB has been deeply involved in all these attempts and efforts at community building. The services provided by the HDB have not always been at economic rates. The emphasis was to build in large numbers and put all the ancillary facilities in place quickly. Less attention was paid to making accurate economic calculations. Less attention was also paid in some instances to quality. We have now entered a new phase where we can put more emphasis on quality and price our services more accurately. The overall economic and social environment has changed. It will be the task of the HDB to address this new environment effectively in discharging its functions of providing public housing. I have covered some of the main policy areas of public housing. Perhaps I can now take, if I have the time, some of the more detailed points that were raised by Members.”
“But HDB will retain enough rental flats to cater for those who require transitional housing, ie, those who have to rent first and can only afford to buy flats later, and for the few in our society who may never be able to purchase their own flats. On the question of HDB shops, the HDB will sell its new shops in phases, and will consider selling existing rental shops in the future. This policy has already been announced. In the meantime, rental shops will be let out on fixed-term tenancies rather than on a month-to-month basis. The details of this have also been announced. HDB will also allow the private sector to build and develop shops for the retail trade, once it goes ahead to sell land in New Towns for comprehensive commercial development. The HDB will from now onwards concentrate on developing public housing only. HDB has therefore decided to hive off all its industrial buildings and estates to the Jurong Town Corporation, its parks to the Parks and Recreation Department, its swimming and sports complexes to the Sports Council, and bus interchanges to SBS and TIBS. This transfer will take place over the next year or so. When Town Councils are formed, the HDB will transfer the bulk of its estate management functions to the Councils. Housing Board residents, through the Councils, will be directly involved in running the common areas of their estates. The Town Councils will also be given the option to manage the HDB carparks. In the last 28 years since the HDB was established, the HDB has done a superb job in housing our citizens and giving the majority of our citizens a stake in owning a part of Singapore. From the very beginning of the housing programme, the Government was aware that the problem required quick solutions and the emphasis was on numbers.”
“This will enable the Board to build according to real demand. In the past, HDB tried to estimate the demand pattern based on past experience. With fast changing tastes and expectations, the past is not a very good guide for future demand. The HDB now has 3-room and 4-room flats, for example, in stock. People can literally buy flats off the shelf. It means less waiting time but, of course, high holding costs for the public housing programme. A system of prior commitment will mean a slightly longer waiting period for people who want flats but it will mean generally lower public housing costs because of lower holding cost. The HDB will continue to build at least up to 5-room improved flats, as long as it is more efficient for the HDB to do so than the private sector. We do not rule out the possibility of getting the private sector to compete with the Board in the building of larger flats such as the Executive flats. The Board will also set aside land within existing estates and New Towns for the private sector to construct private apartments and conventional housing. This should result in a better mix of housing and residents in the HDB estates. Furthermore, the HDB will allow greater participation by the private sector in commercial development in HDB New Towns. For example, the private sector can be invited to design and develop sections of a Town Centre or the Neighbourhood Centre in a New Town. So there will be more scope for private sector participation in HDB developments. Over the next few years, the HDB will demolish many of the older rental blocks especially in the central areas. In so doing, the stock of rental flats will be reduced gradually.”
“For example, in or near the Central Area where land values are high, good quality housing may mean smaller flats with better design and better internal finishes but less open space within the estate or less space between the blocks. The trade-off, of course, is proximity to the City and the amenities that the City provides. On the other hand, in outlying areas or New Towns, there will be more scope for spacious neighbourhoods or town gardens, more open spaces and other facilities. These are trade-offs that Singaporeans must recognize and must learn to accept. I have dealt at some length with the price of HDB flats. But I must emphasize that what I have stated is the broad philosophy. It is a philosophy that may not have been spelt out in the past. But it is one approach which anyone who has had any dealings with real estate will recognize immediately and understand immediately as fair, reasonable and realistic. This approach has always been used by the HDB in determining the relative prices of its flats. It is therefore not a new philosophy. What I have said should not, therefore, be taken to mean that there will be an across-the-board increase in HDB selling prices this year or next year. The objective of achieving a full home-owning society remains. As long as HDB can hold down tender prices of construction and there is no increase in the price of fuel, materials or wage costs and inflation remains low, there is no reason for an across-the-board increase in the prices of HDB flats. Let me now turn to some other aspects of introducing market practices in public housing. The HDB is now studying a system to obtain prior commitment from potential buyers before commencing to build. This is a system that was already suggested by the Member for Geylang Serai.”
“In theory, the best way to allocate a subsidy would be to give every family that qualifies for public housing, a public housing subsidy voucher - a kind of cash voucher which can only be used to buy an HDB flat. The value of the voucher which can be determined according to various criteria will be enough to enable everyone who qualifies for public housing to buy a 3-room flat at very affordable prices. Having given such a voucher, we should then price all public housing at full market value (or at least the land at full market value) and leave it to the holder of the voucher to use the voucher to decide what kind of flat and in which location he would like to buy his flat. Those who can afford to top up more can go for bigger flats and better locations. The choice can be left to the purchaser but everyone will get a predetermined subsidy. This, I think, is the best approach in theory to adopt. I am not sure whether it can, in fact, be implemented because there are many difficulties, as our public housing programme has also many social objectives that we would like to achieve. But in the pricing of public housing, we should always keep the compass pointing in the right direction, ie, at the market value of land. If we deviate from this, I think we can run into all kinds of problems. Using market value of land will also mean better decisions about the type of flats to be built in different areas. Good quality housing will translate into different things for different areas of Singapore. Better housing does not necessarily mean bigger and bigger flats and more generous spacing between blocks.”
“It would be very easy for the Government to be popular and give away the shop by pricing land at historical cost. When all available residential land is given away, what will there be left for future generations, for those who will be starting their own families in the coming years? We cannot shirk our responsibility to our young people who will be entering the market for housing in the future. I have already stated that we must plan for a population of about 3.4 million. We must do all we can to safeguard land for our children. The only way we can be fair to our present as well as future generations is to value HDB land at market rates and use this as a basis for pricing HDB flats. HDB prices have always been below the level required to cover the market value of land. Flats have, therefore, always been subsidized. But using the market value of land for costing purposes will at least tell us how much we are deviating from the market practices and what is the target that we should aim for. The market value of land is also the best guide to the pricing of flats in different parts of Singapore. The price of a flat in or near the Central Area relative to the price of a flat in a New Town or outlying area can only be fixed in relation to the market value of land. The HDB has, in fact, used the market value of land in structuring its selling prices. But the level of subsidy allowed in fixing the prices has not been consistent. This is, of course, apparent from the table that I have circulated where some HDB flats are priced below construction cost while others are priced above construction cost but below full cost including land cost.”
“If his flat happens to be on what was formerly Government land, he would pay nothing for the land. If it happens to be on residential land acquired by the Government or reclaimed from the sea, he would pay more. Prices will fluctuate widely and from area to area and from year to year. of the table that I have distributed shows the HDB price compared to the land at historical cost, together with construction cost. It can be seen from of the table that there is very little difference between the number of flats priced below construction cost, ie, , and the number of flats priced below construction cost plus land at historical cost. This is because the total historical cost of land is very low compared to the construction cost. Government has accumulated this land over a long period of time using acquisition laws that have kept costs low. To use historical cost will, in fact, mean giving away the land almost free. If land is not an important cost component, the price of flats will not vary according to location because there will be no land cost component and it does not matter whether the flat is in the city or in an outlying area. And price will also only vary very little according to the size of the flat because the amount of land that the flat occupies will have little bearing, since land value is a very small component, almost zero. In such a situation, everybody will then want the biggest type of flat, ie, Executive type flats in the best location. How do we then allocate flats in such a situation? By ballot? And how will Singaporeans who work hard, earn more and who can afford better flats be able to upgrade? Obviously, using the market mechanism, which means giving a market value to the land, is the fairest and most efficient way of allocating the flats.”
“As a matter of interest, since this has been the focus of so much discussion in the past, I asked HDB to give an estimate of what it cost the Government to acquire the land - that is, the Government's book value of land at historical cost. Land that the Government sells to the HDB comprises: (a) Land that has reverted to Government at the end of a lease. This was the case with areas within the City. At the end of 99 years' lease, they revert to the Government. So they came back into Government books at zero cost. So cost in this case will be zero. (b) Land which has been Government land for many decades and which has been used by Government for various purposes and hsd now brrn released for public housing. Cost in this case will also be zero, that is, cost in the Government books. (c) Land acquired from the public under the Land Acquisition Act. Cost in this case will be the compensation paid and will depend on when the land was acquired and what the Master Plan zoning of the land is. Where the land is zoned for agricultural use, the compensation will be lower than where the land is zoned for residential, industrial or commercial use. In addition, in many cases, the Government incurs resettlement costs but in some cases, of course, the land may be unencumbered. (d) Land reclaimed from the sea or swamps. The cost in this case, of course, is obvious. It can be seen that the land used for public housing is a composite of many types of land. The proposition that has been made in the past - that the price of an HDB flat should depend on what it cost the Government to acquire the land - is absurd. It would, first of all, mean that what the purchaser pays will depend on the luck of the draw.”
“It is demonstrated by the fact that an HDB purchaser, if he is allowed to do so, can sell his flat immediately after he gets his keys, at a higher price than what he paid the HDB. He does not have to even wait for five years, which is now the period he has to wait, before he can sell. So he is, in fact, getting the flat at a price lower than what it will fetch on the market and he is being subsidized. The cost to HDB of building a flat is the land cost and the construction cost which includes development and infrastructural costs. To make clear the real value of land or the market value of land, HDB buys the land from the Government at market value as assessed by the Chief Valuer. Since the HDB introduced the new accounting policy in 1985, it has been able to build up its accounting system to show more details of the subsidies involved in its various operations. I have circulated a table showing, in summary, the number of HDB flats priced at subsidy levels. The table shows in that almost 98% of all HDB flats completed for sale in fiscal year 1986/87 were sold or will be sold at subsidized prices. In the year 1986/87, that amounts to 38,864 flats. In other words, the prices of 98% of the flats do not recover construction and land costs. shows that even if land costs were ignored or excluded, which of course would be absurd, about 40% of the flats were in fact priced below construction costs. That is, in the accounting year 1986/87 almost 16,000 flats were priced below construction cost. Construction cost, of course, includes development and infrastructural costs.”
“HDB prices already reflect to a small extent these different values but the prices do not reflect sufficiently the difference in market value between the land in or near the City area and land in New Towns and outlying areas. There are also different values for different locations within the same area. The HDB has already introduced the practice of premium and discount pricing within the same pricing zone. This concept has generally been well received. Further adjustment will have to be made to this system of differential pricing. As we allow market forces to determine prices, price differentials must be reflected over localities (ie. in different HDB towns and estates) and also over time. This brings me to the important question of the pricing of HDB flats. I have asked the Clerk to distribute a table which I have prepared. [Copies of table (Cols. 867 - 868) distributed to hon. Members.] Regarding the pricing of HDB flats, I would first of all like to restate the basic thinking that has determined the pricing of HDB flats in the past and which will continue to be the basis in the future. table - NUMBER OF HDB FLATS PRICED BELOW COST IN FY 85/86 AND FY 86/87 (Cols. 867 - 868) The term "subsidy" has been used very loosely. I want to make the definition very clear so that there will be no misunderstanding and so that we will all use the word in the same sense. When the Government provides a service or sells an asset at a price lower than what the consumer or buyer will have to pay in the market, the Government gives a subsidy. As long as HDB sells its flats at a price lower than what they can fetch in the market, the purchasers enjoy a subsidy. This is the only reasonable and rational definition.”
“Our economic and social system encourages people to work hard, save and upgrade their lifestyles. Keeping this dominant objective of a full home-owning society in mind, the HDB will gradually allow market forces to determine the type of flats it will build and the prices at which they will be sold. This will require HDB to ensure that the land sold to the Board is used by the Board to get the best value and yield within the aim of achieving a full home-owing society. Land is finite in Singapore. I do not think Members need to be reminded. We have only 570 sq km of land on the main island of Singapore, of which only about 130 sq km will be available in the long-term for public housing and related facilities. I must emphasize "long-term" - this land is not not available yet. In order to make this 130 sq km available, there is a lot of resettlement and reclamation that has to done on swamps. More land reclamation from the sea can, at best, only make a very small marginal difference. Our population at present is about 2.6 million. A conservative estimate is that our population will increase to about 3.4 million by the year 2030. In land use we must constantly bear in mind that we have an obligation to ensure that our children and our grandchildren will be able to enjoy the quality of life that we now enjoy and even improve on it. Therefore, land for public housing must be optimally used. New town planning, building layout and design, and land use intensity must reflect the market value of land. Similarly, the market value of land must be reflected in the pricing structure of HDB flats. The prices of flats in the Central Area must necessarily be higher than those in outlying areas or New Towns.”
“The recommendations of the Ministerial Committee on Public Housing will guide HDB in its policies in the future. We recognize that while current public housing policies have served us well, the housing needs of Singaporeans have changed. Living conditions have changed and have improved. The economic condition of our people has also changed. Expectations and aspirations of our people are much higher now. Housing policies must be revised and updated so that housing resources can be better allocated to meet these new and changing demands. But any new policy that will be introduced, will not deviate from the basic aim of achieving a full home-ownership society by 1999. All Singaporeans who are prepared to make the effort can be assured that the construction programme and prices will enable them to afford at least a basic housing unit or a 3-room flat. Those who can afford something bigger and better than a 3-room flat will be encouraged to upgrade. The policy on public housing is in this sense quite similar to the Medisave system. Our public health service is aimed at enabling everyone to at least enjoy C Class medical attention. This is a highly subsidized service with the user paying, in cash, only a small proportion of the cost. The Medisave scheme ensures that every one will be able to afford at least Class C service. If a person wants Class B service, which is less subsidized or Class A or private hospital service which is not subsidized, he is of course free to have it if he has enough in his Medisave account. Similarly, our public housing policy will make at least a 3-room flat affordable for all. For those who can afford bigger flats, there will be incentives for them to buy bigger flats.”
“Sir, quite a wide variety of items have been raised under this Head, many of them pertaining to Housing Board and public housing policy. So I thought it would be useful for me to cover the main policy matters raised by recounting or informing this House of a review of public housing policies that has been conducted and the kind of new policies that would be followed in the future. And after I have finished that, then perhaps if I have the time I will tackle some of the more detailed points that were raised by Members. As we were told by the Member for Punggol, the HDB has been successful in tackling our housing problem. We have, in fact, solved the housing problem. Over four-fifths of the population of Singapore now live in Housing Board flats. The housing problem is no longer a question of rehousing people in multi-family shophouses in the city or in urban and rural squatter areas. For example, of the 67,000 applicants who are presently on the waiting list to purchase HDB flats, 42,000 are already living in HDB flats which they purchased. These applicants are applying either to upgrade to bigger flats or are forming new nuclear families. Of the remaining 25,000 applicants, about half are living in HDB rental flats and the other half in non-HDB private premises. Again, these people are seeking to upgrade their accommodation. Only a generation ago, people were very happy to accept 1-room self-contained flats. Now HDB has to offer 3- and 4-room Simplified flats to many applicants before they can find takers. Because of the many changes in our economy and society since the HDB was set up in 1960, a Ministerial Committee under the Chairmanship of the First Deputy Prime Minister was set up to review public housing policies.”
“Sir, very briefly. We have already decided and informed the UK and have received agreement to appoint Mr Aziz Mahmood as our High Commissioner. So action has been taken on that. The delay was partly due to the fact that he was occupied with other functions and we were also casting around to see who would be the best person to be appointed. Roving ambassador - I think what the Member meant was probably not permanent but full-time. There are good reasons why we should for certain countries have roving ambassadors but as to full-time roving ambassadors rather than part-time roving ambassadors, that is something we can consider. Language proficiency, yes, this is one of the items that is very high on the list of requirements for Foreign Service officers. We do encourage and, in fact, fund the training of officers to learn foreign languages. We try to give them enough time, before they take up their post, to learn languages and we do have officers who speak some of the European languages as well as Japanese and, of course, Chinese. We encourage this. This is an item that we have not forgotten.”
“The problem really arises out of Vietnam's Cambodian policy. There is now some encouraging sign in Vietnam that, with the emergence of a new and more pragmatic leadership, there may be changes. We are constantly watching developments in Vietnam and we are not cutting ourselves off from all contacts with them. We maintain contacts with them and, as was pointed out, other ASEAN countries are considering or studying or exploring more economic contacts. And so are we. We are also studying to see how we can expand our contacts. But I think it is important for us to bear in mind that we have together with ASEAN, a certain policy towards Vietnam arising out of Cambodia, and we must be very clear that we do not do anything that will undermine this policy. The reason why the Soviet Union and Vietnam have both been sometimes very vehement in their attack on us is that we have been more active in mobilizing support against them. I think this policy that we have followed is now beginning to pay dividends and we should not abandon the policy. But at the same time I agree that we need to watch the situation carefully. On the question of an independent commission, I think the problem of recruiting the right people or the problem of two services does not arise out of the fact that we have to go to the PSC. The problem really is that we do not have a sufficiently large pool of people from whom we can drew, and until we solve this fundamental problem, creating an independent commission will not help.”
“We must not allow immediate differences and problems to overshadow and spoil the overall relationship. Our relationship and our interests lie basically with the free market economies of the world, and the US is an important player in that market. We must bear that in mind. This is not to say, of course, that we should not develop relations with the Soviet Union. As has been pointed out, the relationship between the US and the Soviet Union itself is undergoing change. But it would be wrong to classify or describe our relations with the Soviet Union as strained. It is not strained. I think a more accurate term will be that it is narrowly based. Our economic relation with the Soviet Union is very narrow. They sell us very little. We buy very little from them. There are, of course, obvious differences in our socio -economic systems and the Soviet Union, until lately, has not even been an active participant in the political and military developments in the region. It is only over the last 10 years or so since the fall of South Vietnam that they have become a major presence. Of course, the Soviet Union's support for Vietnam in its Cambodian policy is one of the problems and though we have tried to keep our relations with the Soviet Union correct, we cannot escape or forget the part that the Soviet Union plays in supporting Vietnam. Nevertheless, we are constantly exploring how we can expand our contacts and our relations with them. There has been a quiet and steady exchange of visits among the officials. Soviet Union officials from the Foreign Ministry have visited us and our officials have gone there and we are now considering how we can upgrade our contacts and our dialogue with them. In the case of Vietnam, we have no specific bilateral problem.”
“The US is an important economic partner and we are quite aware that the US plays a very important stabilizing influence in the region. Our contacts with the US and our relationship with the US are close and broadly based. But we must also be aware that the US is going through a number of changes. This year particularly is a difficult year. It is an election year. They have many serious economic problems which they are reluctant to address because it is election year and, more importantly, the US is declining as a dominant power. It is still a super power. It is still a very important economic power but it does not dominate the international scene the way it used to in the past. All these, of course, give rise to problems in the internal policies in the US and sometimes to problems with us. But they do not threaten the core of US-Singapore relations. Though we will have problems from time to time, we should not be surprised that we have problems with them. As I said, there are internal problems which can give rise to problems such as the GSP or even the differences of views on our action on foreign press. In the case of the GSP, I think we have very good grounds and very good reasons for feeling aggrieved and we have made our views very, very clear. In the case of their interference in our actions against foreign media, we have made our position very clear - that it is an internal matter and that they have no business interfering in our internal affairs. And from the kind of statements and the attitude taken by the State Department, I think they are aware that they cannot influence us or pressure us into doing things which we do not consider to be in our interests. But we must keep our overall long-term primary interest in mind.”
“Fourthly, even though we may not have missions in these countries, they do have missions here and in a number of cases they have accreditated ambassadors to Singapore from either New Delhi or Jakarta or other places. And lastly, even though we do not have diplomatic representation in these countries we do have visitors from these countries, officials as well as political leaders, who visit us and we also take the opportunity of visiting them. For example, we have visited a number of African countries with whom we do not have diplomatic representation. So in the coming years we will be increasing our contacts with these countries and our big problem, as has been pointed out by the Member for Chong Boon, is manpower, not money. We hope to solve that part of the problem with roving ambassadors. On this question of contacts with other countries, the Member for Chong Boon asked whether our Cambodian policy has not restricted our options, and this was expanded on by the Member for Serangoon Gardens when he talked about our rather lopsided foreign policy at the present moment. We are very much aware that international relations are not static. They are constantly evolving and we have to monitor and not be caught unawares when there are new developments. So we are constantly reviewing our contacts and our relations with other countries. But we need to be quite clear where our interests lie and there is an important distinction that must be drawn between our relations towards the US, and the Soviet Union and Vietnam or the other socialist countries. Our relationship with the US, in spite of all the differences that we have had with them on a number of issues, is fundamentally sound.”
“But the fact that we do not have or we have not accreditated ambassadors to countries in these areas does not mean that we do not have diplomatic relations or we do not have some diplomatic activity and contact with them. In 1987 alone, we had seven countries with which we established diplomatic relations - Liberia, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Bolivia, Costa Rica, Uruguay and the Solomon Islands. In Africa, we have diplomatic relations with 12 countries, among them, Nigeria, Tanzania, Algeria, Tunisia and Zimbabwe. So we have contacts with a number of countries. In Latin America, I mentioned we have a roving ambassador who covers Argentina, Brazil, Chile and Panama. We also have an honorary consul in Chile. As I have mentioned, we also have a roving ambassador to Papua New Guinea. We have an honorary consul there and we have diplomatic relations with other countries in the Pacific, such as the Solomon Islands, Fiji and Vanuatu. But this is not the only avenue of establishing or maintaining diplomatic contacts. We have, first of all, our mission in New York which is very active in maintaining contacts and exchanging views with the missions of countries with whom we do not have direct diplomatic or trade representation. Secondly, when I attend the UN General Assembly every year, I make it a point to meet my counterparts from countries in these areas, exchange views with them and develop contacts with them. Thirdly, we also work very actively with many of these countries in multi-national or international organizations like the non-aligned movement, GATT, the Commonwealth, the Group of 77 and so on. In all these various forums, we have identified countries which share our views and our interests and work very closely with them.”
“Mr Chairman, Sir, I want to thank the two Members for their suggestions and their views. May I, first of all, take the question of wider overseas representation. We are quite aware that our present network of diplomatic and trade representation leaves out very large areas, especially in Latin America, Africa and in the South Pacific, as well as the Indian Sub -Continent. For example, we do not have a representation in Bangladesh, Pakistan, or Nepal, or some of the other countries in the Indian Sub-Continent. Some of the countries in these areas have potential for us in terms of political and economic interests. I agree that we cannot afford to continue to ignore them. The Foreign Ministry has taken into account the suggestions by the GPC about appointing roving ambassadors. We have accepted this idea in principle and we are at the present moment looking for suitable candidates to appoint as roving ambassadors to Latin America, Africa, and the South Pacific. As was mentioned by the Member for Chong Boon, we already have such an ambassador to Papua New Guinea as well as to some of the countries in Latin America. Roving ambassadors will be able to establish links with leaders, with officials and businessmen in these countries and provide us with guidance, contacts and assistance for us to develop our politi- cal links as well as our economic and trade links. So we have taken his suggestion and we will be acting on the suggestion. I welcome the offer by the Chairman of the GPC to try and identify people who can perform this function, and I hope that I will be able to ask him for specific suggestions soon.”
“Hence, like other developed countries that employ incineration, our ash also contains heavy metals. These heavy metals are toxic if ingested through the food we eat or the water we drink. It is important that our food and water are not contaminated by incinerator ash. In Singapore, the ash from our incineration plants is dumped in controlled landfills located outside our water catchments. There is therefore no possibility that our water supplies could be contaminated with incinerator ash. Tests of our water quality confirm this to be true. MRT SYSTEM (Problems) 5. Mr Ng Kah Ting asked the Minister for Communications and Information since the operation of the Mass Rapid Transit system, what problems have been encountered and what remedial steps have been taken to overcome them.”
“He explained that this was because of the practice the Australian Government followed in respecting the privacy of individuals in their dealings with Australian Government authorities and agencies. The High Commissioner added that in accordance with the normal procedures followed in such matters, the authorities in Canberra had contacted Edgar D'Souza to seek his agreement to the disclosure of information as to whether he had been granted permanent residence status and if so on what basis. According to the Australian High Commissioner, Edgar D'Souza had declined to give such consent. From the Australian High Commissioner's reply, it is quite clear that it was D'Souza's refusal to give consent that had prevented him from providing the information requested. TOXIC ASH FROM GARBAGE DUMPS 4. Dr Aline K. Wong asked the Minister for the Environment what steps his Ministry is taking to ensure that the ash from incinerated garbage which is dumped in landfills does not contain toxic substances. The Senior Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for the Environment (Mr Eugene Yap Giau Cheng) (for the Minister for the Environment): Sir, I am answering on behalf of my Minister. Mr Speaker, Sir, incinerator ash contains toxic substances especially heavy metals such as cadmium, chromium and nickel. These heavy metals are present in trace quantities in domestic as well as industrial refuse, and are left behind in the ash after incineration. Although we do not allow certain types of industrial waste, such as sludge and chemical wastes to be incinerated as they are known to contain a high proportion of heavy metals, it is not possible to segregate domestic waste as even waste such as wood and paper contain traces of heavy metals.”