Andy Burnham
Prime Minister · MP for Makerfield · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“The right hon. Lady mentions leadership. Let me tell her and the whole House where Britain is showing leadership. There have been Conservative politicians at this Dispatch Box—Labour politicians, too—for decades who have talked about the importance of the two-state solution between Israel and Palestine.”
“I cannot comment today on quasi-judicial decisions, but we will take a pragmatic approach to oil and gas, as I have said before at the Dispatch Box. Let us get to the heart of this question, as the right hon. Lady invites me to do. What is the right way to fund defence and, yes, bring the welfare budget down?”
“I do not think the right hon. Lady is on strong ground when it comes to defence spending. It was 2.5% of GDP when the last Labour Government left office. It was 2.3% of GDP when the Government she was in left office. It is now set to be 2.7% in the next year.”
“This Chancellor, of all Chancellors, will be willing to provide that funding to our armed forces and back our defence investment plan. This Government’s commitment to the defence of this country is absolute. We have taken the strongest possible stance in supporting President Zelensky and Ukraine.”
“I think there are many people watching Prime Minister’s questions across the south of England who would now like Mr Speaker to be demoted in the way that my hon. Friend suggests. [Interruption.] This is very thin ice for a Leigh Leopards supporter to be on.”
“I remember well my visit to Stourbridge; it will not leave me, actually, because of the devastation, and the loss of everything in a moment for so many families. My hon. Friend’s support for them was really visible on the day, and the community is clearly very strong; that was evident.”
The complete record
Every one of 2,246 lines we hold for Andy Burnham, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 40 of 45.
“All the focus should have been on the front line, but instead the Government siphoned £3 billion out of it to pay for a back-office reorganisation that no one wanted and no one voted for—a reorganisation that has placed the NHS on a fast track to fragmentation and privatisation. But it is worse than that. The Government’s own risk registers, which they refused to publish during the passage of the Health and Social Care Act 2012, warned them of the consequences of pushing ahead with a reorganisation when the NHS was facing great financial stress: “The consequences could be compromised clinical care and patient safety, the failure of the 95% operational standard for A&E wait and a concomitant impact on other trust services”.”
“I think that full openness about these decisions is essential in the current context. I know that the panel’s report is with the Secretary of State, and I think he owes it to local Members of Parliament to be open about its conclusions and the evidence on which they were based. That is why I ask him to review every proposed A and E closure personally, and to give a guarantee to communities such as that represented by my hon. Friend that no changes will be made unless he is personally satisfied that it is safe to make them. In conclusion, this is a crisis that could have been avoided. For the last three years the NHS has been struggling with the toxic medicine of budget cuts and top-down reorganisation.”
“People watching this debate will be wondering why the Secretary of State is talking about something that is not his responsibility; nor is it mine. He is not responsible for the NHS in Wales; nor am I. I have put to him today serious questions about the NHS in England right now. He is the Secretary of State for the NHS in England, so will he now address the questions I put to him?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Secretary of State has just said at the Dispatch Box that the budget for the NHS has increased in real terms. In December, I referred the Secretary of State’s comments to the UK Statistics Authority and I received a letter back saying that they were incorrect. Will you ask the Secretary of State to correct the parliamentary record and ensure that when the statistics commissioner makes a ruling it is adhered to by the Secretary of State?”
“(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on what evidence he has to show how his plans to change GP services will solve the current crisis in accident and emergency departments.”
“Will he halt the closure of NHS walk-in centres and personally review all planned A and E closures? What is he doing to sort out the failing 111 service? Did he not speed up implementation against official advice? The truth is that this is a mess of the Government’s own making. It will not be solved by the Secretary of State’s spin or by blaming GPs. He has been found playing politics when he should be dealing with the real causes of today’s chaos. Faced with a real crisis, he has been found wanting. He needs to cut the spin and get a grip.”
“That figure has deteriorated sharply under his Government, and mainly on his watch. Major A and Es have missed the target in 33 of the 35 weeks when he has been Health Secretary. His complacency is dangerous. Is it not time he stopped blaming GPs to divert attention from a mess of the Government’s own making and addressed the real causes? Two weeks ago, NHS England told the Secretary of State what those causes were. He needs to provide convincing answers on each. What steps is he taking to prevent the collapse of adult social care in England? What is he doing to ensure that all A and Es in England have enough doctors and nurses to provide safe care? Will he update the House on the status of his plans to cobble together a £400 million A and E crisis fund, news of which was leaked a fortnight ago?”
“His only substantive response was to tour the TV studios to blame the 2004 GP contract. We today read that his answer is yet another costly NHS reorganisation, this time of GP services. Where is the evidence to support his contention that that will solve the A and E crisis? Why did he not outline his plans to the House—he has already given the news to newspapers? This morning, the chief executive of the NHS Confederation told the Select Committee on Health that there is no link between today’s pressures on A and E and the 2004 contract, echoing expert analysis from the King’s Fund. If the GP contract is the root cause, as the Secretary of State claims, will he explain why 98% of people were seen within four hours in 2009, five years after the contract was signed?”
“The Secretary of State could brief the newspapers last night, but he could not give a straight answer to my question today. He has not outlined his plans to change GP services. The facts are that A and Es are under severe pressure and people are waiting hours on trolleys in corridors or in the back of queuing ambulances to be seen. Last week, a third of major A and Es missed the Government’s lowered targets—some were seriously adrift. At University Hospitals of Leicester, 78% of patients were seen within four hours. Seventy-nine per cent. of patients were seen within four hours in Portsmouth. Things have taken a more serious turn today, with news that 20 senior A and E doctors say they are unable to guarantee patient safety. For weeks, the Opposition have warned the Secretary of State to get a grip.”
“I am sorry to test your patience, Mr Speaker, but I want to ask you whether it is in order for the Government to brief newspapers about a major change of policy, to bring it before this House so that questions can be asked about that major change of policy, and then to fail to provide any details to hon. Members about the changes they have in mind. Is that acceptable behaviour, Mr Speaker, or is it indeed a major discourtesy to this House?”
“At the outset, will the Secretary of State correct the record and remind the House that it was my decision, two months after being appointed Secretary of State in June 2009, to appoint Robert Francis to conduct an independent inquiry?”
“I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way, but the trouble with him is that, often, there is a huge gap between the rhetoric he comes out with at the Dispatch Box and the reality on the ground. He says he is promoting integrated care, but what does he say about the pioneers of integrated care in Torbay, who are threatening to take legal action because of the requirement for compulsory competitive tendering of services? Under this Government, are not the beacons of integration being demolished by his free market?”
“What else could explain the pathetic spectacle this weekend of Government Members, spooked by UKIP, falling over themselves to say that they will be voting against their own legislative programme? Has this place ever seen something so ridiculous?”
“This is the fragile state of the NHS today: battered and bruised by a reorganisation that nobody wanted and nobody voted for; an entire health and care system on the brink, facing huge challenges that require urgent answers. However, we will not find them in this Queen’s Speech. There is no answer to the collapse of social care, and no answer to the understaffing of hospitals or the growing chaos in A and E. On the preventable deaths and health harm caused by smoking and alcohol, there is silence. This Queen’s Speech is the product of a dysfunctional Government who have lost any ability they once had to face up to the big challenges the country faces. It cements the impression of a failed coalition project now preparing the ground for the next election rather than governing in the national interest.”
“Like you, Mr Speaker, I am tempted to say, “Is that it?” I suggest to the Secretary of State that he starts reading the weekend newspapers. He began with complacent statements about how everything is marvellous and it is all going so well, but it will not feel like that to staff working in A and E. The Secretary of State’s statement will just confirm to them that he is completely out of touch. Every day brings new signs of an NHS in distress: more ambulance queues outside A and E; more patients left waiting for a call-back by a 111 service ill-equipped to deal with their needs; more older people seeing social care support withdrawn, or struggling to pay spiralling care charges and ending up in A and E; more patients waiting hours in A and E on trolleys in corridors; and more hospitals running way beyond safe occupancy levels.”
“I thought the new compassionate Conservative party was meant to have stopped “banging on about Europe”—that was the phrase, was it not?—but now its Members are all dancing to UKIP’s tune and reading out what Mr Crosby gives them. It will not wash. The country can see that this is a shambles of a Government who look ridiculous to the country they purport to govern. When Britain needed leadership, it got the farce of this coalition. There is no need to send in the clowns; they are already here.”
“Forget compassionate Conservatism; this is straight back to the dog-whistle tactics—failed tactics, I might add—of the 2005 general election. This is the coded message the Government want the Queen’s Speech to send: “You see all those problems with accident and emergency departments? Well it’s all down to immigration. It’s nothing to do with us.” It is a Crosby-fied Queen’s Speech that is more about positioning and politics than a serious programme for government.”
“I shall come to that point directly, because the Queen’s Speech is a diversion from the real issues, an attempt to say, “Look over here at this other issue” and divert people’s attention from the chaos the Government have visited on the NHS. On health and care, our objection is not to the modest measures the Government are proposing. We will of course wait to see the detail, but it sounds as though we will be able to give our support to many of them. Our objection to the Gracious Speech is not to what is in it, but to what is not in it and to the unpleasant political strategy that lies behind it. As a response to the developing crisis in our health and care system, it is inadequate. Worse, however, it tries to disguise that fact by pointing the finger at others.”
“The nasty party is back, scapegoating vulnerable people and stoking social division as a means of diverting attention from its own record, so get ready to hear how problems in the NHS are caused by health tourism and are nothing to do with the coalition’s toxic medicine of fragmentation, privatisation and budget cuts.”
“It is interesting, isn’t it? Here we are, in the middle of this Parliament, discussing the Queen’s Speech and health and social care, and what is the only issue Conservative Members can raise? Europe! We are talking about people waiting hours on end in A and E, about ambulances queuing outside, about a 111 service that does not ring anybody back, and about social care close to collapse, but they have nothing to say about those issues. Instead, they bang on about Europe. That is because they are preparing the ground for the 2015 election.”
“The Care and Support Alliance has said that the system is in deep crisis and that without “appropriate funding for the social care system…the aspirations set out in the Care Bill will not be reached.” The Care Bill does nothing for people who face a desperate daily struggle to get the support they need right now, with many paying spiralling charges for their care. That is the effect of this Government’s drive to cut councils to the bone. They are foisting huge care charges on the most vulnerable people in our society. These are the coalition’s dementia taxes.”
“National standards for eligibility could help to bring consistency to the care system, and stronger legal rights for carers are long overdue, as is improved access to information and advice. However, the question in the minds of many today, particularly councillors watching this debate, will be: how on earth will we be expected to pay for all that? That is when we realise again that there is a huge gap between the rhetoric we hear from the Dispatch Box and the reality on the ground across England. More than £1.3 billion has been cut from local council budgets for older people’s social care since this Government came to power. Just last week, the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services said that Government cuts to care and councils would mean a further raid of £800 million from care budgets in the next year.”
“As ever, my hon. Friend says it more eloquently than I can. The Government are playing politics rather than addressing the national interest. People will see that, but at least the Government have revealed their hand. We will work hard over the next two years to show who is really to blame and expose this Government’s failures on social care, the NHS and public health. Let me take each in turn. At face value, the social care measures that the coalition is proposing sound like progress towards a fairer and simpler system. Indeed, the Care Bill builds on many of the recommendations of the Law Commission’s review of adult social care legislation, which was initiated by the last Government and included in the White Paper I published before the last election.”
“I will come directly to that quotation in a moment, because the hon. Gentleman will remember that at the last election he stood on a manifesto promising real-terms increases for the NHS. I hope that when he speaks later—or if he wants to get up right now—he will tell me whether they have been delivered.”
“Since this Government came to power, the average care user has paid £655 a year more for home care than when they came into office. Overall, that is around £6,800 a year. Dial-a-ride transport services have doubled in price over the same period, from an average of £1.92 to £4.12. Meals on wheels now cost an extra £235 a year, while people in Conservative areas pay more for each service on average than friends and family in Labour-controlled areas—on average, £15 a week or £780 a year more for home care. That is the record of this Government.”
“Government Members are just embarrassing themselves. When they cannot answer a question, they try to raise another one or go on about Europe. It is just not good enough. The answer is—though the hon. Gentleman cannot admit it—that Andrew Dilnot said this Government had cut the NHS. It is there in black and white. That is what they have done, and they stood on a manifesto promising the opposite. I secured a budget to protect the NHS at the last election. I said that I could not give real-terms increases because that would be irresponsible; and as it turns out, nor can the hon. Gentleman. His party was writing cheques that it simply could not cash, and that is a fact. The Care Bill does nothing for those hit by the coalition’s dementia taxes right now.”
“I assure the hon. Gentleman that I will come on to that, but I have a job to do in holding this shambles to account and that is exactly what I am doing. Under this Government, people are paying more out of mum or dad’s bank account for care, which often does not come up to the standards that they want, because their council has been cut to the bone. What are they meant to make of a promised, far-off cap of £72,000, or £144,000 for a couple? The Government are giving a little with one hand, while with the other they are grabbing a fortune from people’s bank accounts.”
“His clear answer was that we had to do both. He said that it would not make sense to do one without the other, yet that is what this Government are doing—”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The cap is a mirage, and this will not feel like progress to people who are paying care charges. Indeed, it is a cruel con trick. The Government are loading extra charges on people while telling them that they might benefit from a cap in a number of years. This simply means that more people will be paying right up to the level of that £72,000 cap. How can it be fair to pay for the cap by raiding council support? That does not make sense. Those of us who were involved in the cross-party talks—the failed cross-party talks, I might add—will remember that a question was put directly to Andrew Dilnot. He was asked whether, if there was not enough money around, it would be better to pay for a cap or to pay to support councils to ensure that the baseline was not cut further.”
“If people’s services are withdrawn, or if they cannot afford to pay for them, they are more likely to struggle and fall ill at home and to end up in hospital. That is bad for them, and it costs the NHS more. Also, NHS staff are finding that people who are ready to leave hospital cannot be discharged because the necessary support cannot be put in place. Beds are not being freed up on the wards, and A and E therefore cannot admit people to the wards because there is no space. A and E then becomes full, which results in ambulances queuing up outside because they cannot hand over patients. The system is now backing up right through A and E.”
“That is what this Government are doing. A cap is ineffective without long-term funding for the future of social care, and the failure to face up to the crisis in adult social care budgets that Conservative councillors are talking about will leave people with the impression that this Health Secretary is fiddling while Rome burns. The social care system in England is close to collapse, and the reality behind the Government spin is that, under this Government, people’s savings are being washed away more quickly than ever before. I want to turn now to our accident and emergency services. The crisis in social care is the predominant driver of what we are now seeing in our accident and emergency departments.”
“The health service needs functioning day care, and housing” and meals on wheels. That warning has now come true.”
“The Secretary of State is nodding; he should do something about it. This is happening on his watch. Across the country, hospitals are operating at levels way beyond safe bed occupancy— [ Interruption. ] He nods, but I am saying, “Do something. Don’t just nod!” We need action from the Secretary of State. Let me return to the quote that I mentioned earlier. People love to say that I would have cut the NHS. For the record, I have never said that I would cut the NHS. At the last election, I promised real-terms protection for the NHS. The Conservatives promised real-terms increases, which have never been delivered. Let me read that quote in full: “It is irresponsible to increase NHS spending if the effect is that it is damaging, in a serious way, the ability of other services to cope…that are intimately linked to the NHS.”
“I will give way to the Secretary of State, but I ask him to address this point. He has paid for the so-called ring fence on the NHS by ransacking local government funding, and that makes no sense whatever.”
“I do not think the right hon. Gentleman is listening. I said that if there were to be any increase, it should go into supporting social care. I now hear that Government Members are proposing emergency transfers from the NHS budget to social care because of the crisis that the Secretary of State has created.”
“In 2009—five years after the GP contract came into force—98% of people were seen within four hours at A and E departments across England. What we have seen recently is that, week after week, major A and E units are missing their lowered target. That is the reality right now, and the Secretary of State had better start facing up to it.”
“I am very grateful to my hon. Friend. He has now embarrassed the Secretary of State who, just a moment ago from the Dispatch Box, claimed the opposite. Similarly, the Work and Pensions Secretary was pulled up last week for doing exactly the same thing. They think they can stand there and say whatever they like, and they think they can get away with it, but they cannot, because people have seen through them. They have cut the NHS; they have broken the central promise on which this Government came to office. Now they are saying that the pressure on A and E has nothing to do with social care funding or NHS funding, but is all to do with the GP contract in 2004. That is what they have been saying on the radio for the last three weeks. Let the Government answer this.”
“That is not good enough, and neither is it good enough in Greater Manchester, where huge changes are planned. These changes must be clinically driven, not driven by finance, which is what we are seeing under this Government.”
“I could not agree more with my right hon. Friend. All over the country, we hear that A and E is under intense pressure. Such is the importance of these services to every community that changes should be made only if there is a compelling clinical case to support them. If clinicians can demonstrate that more lives will be saved and disability will be reduced by changing A and E services, I think every Member should have a moral obligation to support them, but when the changes are financially driven—my right hon. Friend knows this better than anybody, as the Secretary of State has downgraded a successful A and E in Lewisham to deal with problems in another trust—that simply will not do. A and E units in west London, for example, are being closed one after another.”
“First, it is important not to overstate the nature of the problem, and secondly, it is essential for health practitioners not to be turned into immigration officers. In March, when asked how much health tourism was costing the NHS, the Health Secretary said: “I don’t want to speculate… but… we have heard… it’s £200 million.” On the same day, the Prime Minister’s spokesman said he believed that the figure was more like £20 million. Perhaps the Health Secretary could account for the difference—or did he just add a zero?”
“I welcome the fact that the Care Bill will contain measures relating to the Francis report, and I will work with the Health Secretary on that, but let us get to the crux of the issue of safe staffing levels, because that is the most urgent problem facing the NHS. The Health Secretary nods again. Let me make him an offer. If he introduces a benchmark—if he specifies minimum staff to patient ratios—we will support him, and the measure will go straight through the House. I shall wait for him to respond to that offer, and to ensure that the recommendations of the Francis report are properly implemented. I give a cautious welcome to some of the Health Secretary’s measures to deal with health tourism, but let me issue two caveats.”
“That is proof that when the Government surrendered their powers of control over the NHS, the Health Secretary surrendered his ability to do anything about the problems that we now face. It is just as bad when it comes to staffing. We hear that nurses’ posts continue to be lost. Nearly 5,000 have been lost since the Government came to power, and according to the findings of a survey published yesterday, nurses fear that further tragedies could happen as a result of staff losses. That should set alarm bells ringing throughout the Department of Health. The Care Quality Commission has said that one in 10 hospitals in England does not have adequate staffing levels. The Health Secretary nods. I am glad that he accepts that, but, again, what is he going to do about it?”
“That is the reality of what was going on behind this threadbare Queen’s Speech: the Health Secretary was trying to cobble together a plan to deal with the A and E problems, weeks after we had first raised the issue in the House. We hear of an e-mail leaked by an NHS finance officer which said: “The SoS would like to announce tomorrow that £300m-400m is being invested to solve the A&E problem. We have spent most of the day trying to hold him off doing this.” The Health Secretary seems to have forgotten that his powers to intervene were given away by his predecessor. He no longer has the power to mandate the NHS to do what he wants; the NHS can now “hold him off”. I am afraid that he looks weak. He has no response to what is happening to A and E departments. And where is the “£300 to £400 million” plan? It has not materialised.”
“That is what happens when a market is set up in the NHS, pitting one hospital against another in open competition. That is what is beginning to take hold in the NHS, where the Government waste money on consultants and all the other things that come from bidding for contracts. That is a direct effect of the legislation they pushed through. This reorganisation and the budget cuts I mentioned a few moments ago are providing a toxic mix. This is why for 32 weeks running, the NHS in England has missed the Government’s own lowered A and E target for major units. It really is time that the Health Secretary got a grip on the issue. We hear that last week he was trying to hatch a panic plan to deal with the A and E crisis.”
“We must wait to see what the Government produce, but we need to be sure that they are attacking the real problem rather than playing politics with an issue and creating the impression that all the A and E problems are caused by immigration. If that is their real intention, they will have no support from the Opposition.”
“This is the same Mr Crosby who has represented “big tobacco” since the 1980s, who masterminded the campaign against standardised packaging in Australia, and who was federal director of the Liberal party of Australia when it accepted millions of pounds in donations from the tobacco industry. The Secretary of State said last week that a decision has not been made yet because the consultation has only just finished. It ended nine months ago. He can make a decision. I say to him again today, here is another positive offer from the Opposition: if he brings forward these proposals, they will have our full support and we will get them on the statute book.”
“He said that he wanted tobacco companies to have “no business” in this country, and that introducing standardised packaging was an essential next step to ensure that young smokers were not recruited by the tobacco industry. [ Interruption. ] The Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), looks confused, but I think she advanced the same argument on the radio a couple of weeks ago, saying she was an advocate of standardised packaging. Then, we read in advance in our newspapers that the measure had been dropped—one of the “barnacles” on “the boat”, we were told, by the said Mr Crosby.”
“Nuance, care and caution are precisely what we need in this debate; we do not need press statements written by Lynton Crosby which then turn up in the House as Bills. We want responsible government, ensuring that the NHS is not abused. We will support the Government as long as that is their intention, but if they are doing something more sinister and playing politics with these issues, they will not have our support. We have had no answers on the NHS. Let me finally turn to public health. There was not much on which I agreed with the last Health Secretary, but he had my strong support when he spoke about tackling smoking.”
“The former Secretary of State said that it was full steam ahead and that is what they would do. This Secretary of State comes in and says nothing about the issue. Then, a right-wing Australian lobbyist arrives, and all of a sudden no one mentions it at all. Has the Secretary of State ever met Lynton Crosby and discussed this issue with him? I think we have a right to know. [ Interruption. ] He nods; I should be interested to know the substance— [ Interruption. ] He has not met him to discuss the issue. He looks very uncomfortable all of a sudden.”
“We are going to have to get to the bottom of this—not just the Secretary of State, but all his Ministers and advisers and all the No. 10 advisers—because it looks to us as though this Government have raised the white flag on having any semblance of a progressive public health policy. I cannot believe that the Liberal Democrats put their name to such reactionary stuff. Where is minimum alcohol pricing? Where is public health in this Queen’s Speech? They are totally absent.”