John Healey
MP for Rawmarsh and Conisbrough · Labour · United Kingdom
“Mr Spock, I think some would say, Mr Speaker! My hon. Friend is right. Despite global conflicts, trade tensions and rising threats in the world, which are pushing up inflation, bearing down on growth and pushing up borrowing costs, the UK economy is demonstrating huge resilience.”
“The Prime Minister and I have been clear that we must cut the costs of welfare. On levels of taxation, we had a period of Conservative Government, with low growth and high debt. They crashed the economy with the mini-Budget, and we had levels of taxation that were putting pressure on business, adding to the cost of living.”
“The hon. Lady is talking to the person who led the work to establish a defence and security partnership with the European Union and bilateral agreements with other countries, on which we now build both our economic strength and our national security strength. On the question of the Budget, I ask the hon.”
“Since day one in the job, the Prime Minister and I have been in lockstep in our determination to meet Britain’s fiscal rules. This is the bedrock on which we build good growth and help give a bit of breathing space to families and businesses.”
“May I start by paying tribute to my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West and Pudsey (Rachel Reeves)? I am proud to have been a member of a Government with the first female Chancellor in 700 years.”
“My hon. Friend speaks up very strongly for his local area. He is right about the importance of pubs, social clubs and live venues, and about the importance of the 20% cut that we announced in July. These are the things that make the places where we live the places that we also love.”
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“As a minimum, then, for the costs of temporary accommodation local authorities will be out of pocket by about £900 million each year. The penalties in the Bill will help to deter people from cheating the system and cheating their neighbours. It will help the detection of those who are cheating taxpayers and will help to take action against them. More than that, however, those who badly need the homes that are available for them and that they should have are being cheated when these homes are sub-let illegally for the private profit of those who cheat the system. I hope we make progress in the Bill Committee tomorrow, and I hope we pass the money resolution to aid that progress.”
“I rise to underline the support of Labour Back Benchers for the hon. Member for Watford (Richard Harrington) and to congratulate him on bringing in this Bill. As my very good friend the shadow Housing Minister said, I was the Minister in 2009 who introduced the first ever national campaign against fraud of this type. The number of properties recovered as a result of that campaign went up by 75%, but there is still quite a long way to go—and this Bill will help. This is, of course, a money resolution and there should be a net financial gain to the state from this Bill, despite the costs that the resolution will allow to be incurred. The Audit Commission’s estimate of the number of properties in respect of which social landlords have lost control of the allocation is about 50,000—a figure from about three years ago.”
“What will be next year’s budget for consultants to support the work of Infrastructure UK in carrying out that due diligence and giving advice to Ministers?”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way on the point that he was good enough to respond to earlier. He said that there would be charges as part of the project costs and that, therefore, there would be no net cost for consultants to advise the Treasury’s Infrastructure UK team. Does that also apply to consultants who may be required to advise other Departments as part of this due diligence process? Will there be a net cost to those Departments for such advice?”
“The right hon. Gentleman is making a powerful case against predatory capitalism and tax avoidance that ought to commend itself to the Treasury Front-Bench team. If they will not accept his argument and amendments, will he press them to a vote?”
“The Minister was boasting before the last interventions about near-record-low interest rates of 1.9%. What does he think about the judgment of that by the hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), who was trusted and appointed by the Chancellor to be his party’s member of the LIBOR investigation committee? He said: “The reason we have a low interest rate is because the economy is absolutely screwed.””
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. In particular, social housing construction, which was the subject of the Minister’s intervention, has plummeted by 25% in the past year. That is the direction it is going in under this Government.”
“I hope he will take seriously his own interest in seeing a cross-party consensus because, in the end, long-term infrastructure projects do not correspond to our political cycle—they require cross-party consistency, confidence and consensus. If the Bill can contribute to that, it will build a sound basis for that consensus for the future. Question put and agreed to . Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.”
“That was reflected in the CBI’s annual infrastructure survey published recently, which concluded: “The message to Government is a wake-up call that businesses in Britain are looking for action and we haven’t seen any yet.” It found that business and industry were less confident about the Government’s ability to drive investment into crucial transport, energy, water and waste projects than they were a year ago. I hope that the Bill will be part of a proper rebalancing of the British economy, and that the Economic Secretary will recognise that investment is currently heavily skewed towards London and the south-east.”
“After all, it is almost a year since the Prime Minister promised “an all-out mission to unblock the system and get projects under way”, and almost two years since the Government published their first national infrastructure plan. It is almost two and a half years since they set up the Infrastructure UK unit in the Treasury, which the Economic Secretary has mentioned today, with its remit to “provide a stronger focus on the UK’s long-term infrastructure priorities and meet the challenge of facilitating significant private sector investment”. It has been so long, and there has been so little action, that business, investors and industry are all understandably losing confidence in the Government’s ability to act.”
“I do not just say, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich did, that I can find little to object to in the Bill; I positively welcome the aims behind it, and I will welcome action should it follow from the Bill’s provisions. It makes sound sense to make the private sector balance sheet support the public sector balance sheet and bring the two together, especially at a time when public finances are limited and normal lending is constrained. The principles and aims of the Bill are sound, but the question remains whether the Government can put schemes in place in a way that is simple enough and speedy enough to ensure that the necessary action follows. The Economic Secretary will have to forgive me if I have a certain amount of scepticism about that.”
“That would not have held the Government up for long, but it would have made the Bill and the debate on it a great deal better. We did not reach some amendments and new clauses today, but I hope that the Economic Secretary and his colleagues in another place will seriously consider amendment 3, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford), about the frequency of reports; amendment 12 and new clause 3, tabled by the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), on transparency, due diligence and the tracing of beneficial owners; and new clause 1, tabled by my right hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor, on social and affordable housing. The Economic Secretary gave the House the impression that he cared about that matter, so I hope he will take that suggested provision seriously.”
“I had not planned to speak on Third Reading, but I have been moved to do so by how seriously the Committee stage was curtailed this afternoon. For the entire Committee stage on the Floor of the House, we have had less time than a single sitting of a Public Bill Committee. I put it to the Economic Secretary that proper scrutiny would have done a great service to the objectives of a Bill as important as this, on which the Government are rightly looking to build a consensus in the House and beyond. I say that not least because those with an interest, who will have to finance, plan, deliver and make decisions about the big infrastructure projects that our country needs, could have had the chance to give evidence to the Public Bill Committee.”
“The country needs it to work. However, I say to the Minister and to the Chief Secretary, who is no longer in his place, that there are two big questions behind the Bill that, even after his long speech this afternoon, remain unanswered. They are about urgency and clarity. The value of the legislation and the Government’s borrowing and funding commitment will be felt when the first project is chosen, the guarantees are in place and the work begins. When will that be? As always with a new policy, the devil is in the detail. We have no detail and we have no idea how the arrangements allowed for in the Bill will work. The Government have already asked for expressions of interest for funding and borrowing guarantees but have published no guidance. When will that be done?”
“I am glad that I was in my place to hear the hon. Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt) make his first speech from the Government Back Benches. He was a very serious Minister and brought a very serious mind to his brief, as he has done in this afternoon’s debate. I see borrowing guarantees to help fund investment in Britain’s infrastructure as a good, if overdue, use of the power of government. It is creative, innovative and active government, if it works. Using the strength of the public balance sheet to underwrite private investment makes sense, especially at a time when public funding is limited and private bank lending is constrained. It should improve the credit rating of, and attract investors to, infrastructure projects, and I see those as two key tests for the policy and the legislation before us. I welcome the Bill and want it to work.”
“I believe very strongly that improved long-term infrastructure should be a shared endeavour of all parties, because infrastructure projects do not fit neatly within the political cycles and are damaged by the chopping and changing of Government policy.”
“Fourthly, I expect that security requirements will be part of the arrangements for the borrowing guarantees. Will developers building homes be able to provide the security on completion of those homes rather than in advance? If the Government want these guarantees to work, and to work rapidly, to boost housing, jobs and the economy, they need to provide answers and reassurance on all four points. The Chief Secretary mentioned the 1932 Baldwin agreement, which emphasises that where financial liabilities that last beyond the term of one Government or one financial year are introduced, they should be backed by specific legislation.”
“The Treasury has said that guarantees can cover key project risks including construction, performance and revenue risk. Will that apply equally to housing as to the other categories set out in clause 1(2)? Secondly, some housing associations already have a presence in the capital markets and can raise finance in their own names, so will such organisations with significant project proposals be able to push ahead without the creation of any intermediary or aggregator? Thirdly, the best housing developments are mixed and help to support mixed communities. The Government have said that the guarantees will support private and social housing. Will those building new homes be able to source guarantees for both sectors from the same fund scheme?”
“Who in Government will be accountable for the programmes and the problems on the guarantees? On housing, let me take issue with the hon. Member for Reigate, because the Chief Secretary and the Government are right and he is wrong. I welcome its definition as infrastructure. It is basic to people’s lives and to a good society, and central to wider economic growth and to productivity. Above all, it is a long-term good. We are still getting rent from Bevan’s post-war council housing a long time after the cost of the capital to build them has been paid. I am looking to the Government for reassurances on four questions, especially in relation to housing. First, the Chief Secretary said that he did not want to prescribe and would not circumscribe the stages of projects that credit guarantees can support.”
“Their record on other policy decisions that at first sight have nothing to do with infrastructure is also making it harder to put in place the funding required. The abrupt change and then change again in the solar feed-in tariffs, the benefits reforms and cuts, the tripling of student tuition fees, creating “core and margin” university course places, and the rebanding of renewables obligation certificates have all changed the risks and the costs of long-term capital—so much so that a senior figure in the industry recently said to me: “Investors are now asking for the first time how you can price in public policy risk.” The guarantee scheme needs to be flexible and straightforward. The devil is in the detail, and Government revel in the detail. Is every Department going to introduce and run its own scheme with its own rules?”
“Most seriously, since the Government’s second infrastructure plan in November 2011 the economy has shrunk by nearly 1% and Britain has become one of only two G20 countries in a double-dip recession. On the point of concern about clarity and simplicity, the Infrastructure Investor journal recently conducted a survey of 200 industry investors. Lack of finance, poor regulation and procurement weakness are all problems they face, but some 60% said that confusion and lack of clarity from the Government are a far greater disincentive. What matters most is confidence in the pipeline of projects, often based on clear Government policy decisions and commitments. The Government are failing that test over big projects and policies such as High Speed 2, aviation capacity and power generation.”
“My hon. Friend is right, and I hope that he gets a chance to make a speech. I will move on in a moment to some of the changes in policy and cuts since the general election that have made infrastructure projects and that sort of investment harder, not easier. There are big causes for concern behind the two big questions I mentioned. First, there are questions and concerns about speed and how serious the Government are about getting infrastructure work going. It is almost a year since the Prime Minister promised “an all-out mission to unblock the system and get projects underway”. It is almost two years since the Government published their first national infrastructure plan and almost two and a half years since they set up Infrastructure UK in June 2010 in the Treasury.”
“I do not think I have ever heard my hon. Friend advocate competition in any circumstance on any policy before, but I am happy to say that he is right, and I support him. I hope that we may get back to those days. Just before the election, when I introduced the local authority new-build scheme, which boosted and supported local council housing for the first time, we had very strong bids and very strong support from 73 councils, including many Conservative councils that wanted to build council homes but were not, until then, getting support from Government to do so. They are certainly not getting that support now. Since the election, this Government have done too little for too long on new infrastructure. This Bill could make an important difference. It deserves all-party support, and the Government will get it if they get this right.”
“Given the absence of Scottish and Welsh nationalists, may I ask the Minister whether decisions on projects in Scotland and Wales will be made in Scotland and Wales?”
“I am very grateful to the Minister for giving way; he is answering the questions that come up. Will Infrastructure UK look at every project and proposal for these borrowing guarantees?”
“Legislation for Government borrowing guarantees to help to fund infrastructure is due to be presented to the House next week. The Chancellor is right to try to use the power of government in this way, so why has it taken two and a half years, and nine months of double-dip recession, for him to decide to do it?”
“Will my right hon. Friend take a look at the Rotherham citizens advice bureau survey, which I have sent to the Secretary of State today? The bureau questioned more than 100 people who had been through employment and support allowance assessments last year; more than half said that the assessment was rushed, nearly two thirds said that the assessor did not listen to them and only a quarter felt that the assessor was fully qualified to assess their medical condition. Does he agree that a fair benefits system and a fair universal credit depend on a fair and accurate system of assessment?”
“The Secretary of State maintains that the project is on track, when everybody else seems to think that it is in serious trouble and way off track. Rotherham Jobcentre Plus staff have told me that he has told the public that jobseeker’s allowance and new claims for out-of-work support will be treated as new claims for universal credit from October 2013. Is that still the case?”
“My hon. Friend is making a very powerful critique of the chaos caused by recent policies. We have two very fine universities in Sheffield in south Yorkshire. Sheffield Hallam university has told me, just as she has said, that the problem is that “the goalposts were moved often and late this year…This made it difficult for potential students to decide where they might want to go and difficult for Universities to be precise about what they could offer and how many places they had.” Does my hon. Friend recognise those problems, which are being caused by the Government’s policies?”
“May I welcome the new Minister responsible for further education and skills to one of the most important economic posts in the Government? Will he confirm his backing for the successful union learning fund that helps 100,000 people a year get on to courses? It is strongly backed by employers who claim that staff with little history of learning are helped to take up training because of the unions’ work.”
“It is good to see that the Leader of the House is still in the Cabinet, and especially good to know that he will not be steering any legislation through the House in his new position. He will know that the number of university applications from young people in Britain has dropped by nearly 10% for this year, as a direct result of the disastrous decision to raise tuition fees to £9,000. Why will the Government not find time for a debate on the subject—in Government time—rather than leaving it to the Opposition?”
“They have concentrated their concern on years three and four, on which the Minister will have to make decisions in the next month or so, and they have argued not that there should be no cuts but that there should be a flat-rate percentage cut for all 31 fire and rescue services across the country. Many of us as Labour MPs in the six metropolitan areas believe that there is a case for reversing the pattern of cuts in years one and two in years three and four. We see the situation as iniquitous and inexplicable as well as indefensible. We are ready to back the fire chiefs and we have worked across area and across party to make that reasoned and restrained case to Government.”
“While six of those authorities were wondering how to spend the extra cash they had, the six metropolitan areas were working out how to cut 1,258 full-time firefighters, 69 retained firefighters and more than 550 other staff in this spending review period. In South Yorkshire alone, we have to cut one in seven of our full-time firefighters. The fire chiefs have been reasonable and restrained in their response. They have accepted the year one and year two settlement. They have come together for the first time ever to make a joint case and they have produced strong evidence and strong reports.”
“Friend—who represented one of the winning authorities in the first two years, described that situation as “ludicrous”. The previous Minister said that he was surprised by that result. Some of those in fire and rescue authorities looking at grant increases over those two years were astonished, and many of us in the six metropolitan areas were angry. We heard and we took at face value what the Prime Minister and the Chancellor had said about all being in this together. We believed that the previous Minister misspoke in the Commons Chamber when he said that the poorest would have to bear the greatest burden in paying for the deficit. The situation that we faced in these first two years was indefensible.”
“Essentially, we are all here to argue our case. Many of us representing parts of the six metropolitan areas of South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, Tyne and Wear, Greater Manchester, Merseyside and the West Midlands feel that the year one and year two cuts in the fire and rescue services were unfair, unequal and hard to justify. Let me explain. The settlement for the first two years brought cuts to the budgets of most of the 31 fire and rescue services across the country. It brought especially deep cuts in the six metropolitan areas, but it also brought funding increases to six of those fire and rescue authorities. The hon. Member for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery), a member of the Select Committee on Communities and Local Government—and the Minister’s hon.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Sunderland South (Bridget Phillipson) on securing this important and timely debate in Westminster Hall. It will help to underpin and underline the strong cross-party concern about the future funding of our fire services. I pay tribute to the former Minister, the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill). He understood the fire services and had a long track record in local government. I hope that he may yet emerge from this reshuffle with another post. I also welcome the new Minister to his post and hope that he picks up the brief in the same way as his predecessor. May I say to him that we are here to help, as are his hon. Friends, the hon. Members for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) and for Altrincham and Sale West (Mr Brady)?”
“My hon. Friend underlines the modest case that the fire chiefs have been making, which many Labour MPs have been prepared to back. Indeed my hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Sunderland South did so today. The scheme does entrench the unfair pattern that we have seen in years one and two, but, from the fire chiefs’ point of view, it recognises that the Fire Minister, unless he is going to renegotiate the settlement with the Treasury for years three and four, will have to find cuts worth more than £130 million in the next couple of years.”
“In the middle of July, his Department produced a big document on the consultation on business rates retention. It confirms that in future, police authorities will be funded outside the new business rates retention scheme. The document says that the reason for doing so is that it is recognised “that the police have limited levers to influence growth.” Exactly the same argument applies to the fire and rescue services. The fire service, which is also an emergency service, has exactly the same need for stable and predictable funding. I urge the Minister to take a leaf out of the Home Secretary’s book, for years three and four, and for the long term. Let us put the funding of fire services on a proper footing—and a fairer footing—for the future.”
“This year, each of the 43 police authorities have had an even cut in their budgets of 6.7%. Last year, each and every one of them had the same cut of 5.1%. and it was done through the floor-damping mechanism. Exactly the same policy is at the Minister’s disposal to apply to the 31 fire and rescue authorities. It would be more equitable. It would still be tough, and it would be especially tough in those metropolitan areas that have some of the highest need, the highest risk, the lowest council tax base and the weakest levels of economic growth but, none the less, the fire chiefs are prepared to accept that and go with it. Finally, will the Minister take a fresh look at how fire and rescue authorities are treated in the future? He should adopt the same approach to those authorities as has been taken to the police.”
“Member for Bromley and Chislehurst, his officials and the chief fire officer for the way in which they have worked. I also pay tribute to the chief constables, their staff, the unions and the members of the fire and rescue authorities in the six metropolitan areas. In the past nine months, we have given the Government fair warning, and the Minister should take this as a final warning. He is close to having to make a decision. If the cuts fall in the same way, so deeply and so unfairly in the metropolitan areas, there will be fewer firefighters, fire engines and fire stations. Bluntly, more people will die. Let me offer a solution to the Minister—we argued this with his predecessor—and encourage him as a fresh Minister to take a fresh look and learn from the Home Secretary.”
“My right hon. Friend is right. There is a pattern of deep cuts, especially in the six metropolitan areas, and it is strongest in poorest areas with the highest number of fires; urban areas in which the risk of fires is greatest; metropolitan brigades that have done the most over the past decade to become more efficient; and the six fire and rescue authorities that have done the most, and do the most, to cover other areas in cases of national emergency such as flooding, terrorism and major incidents. If the pattern of years one and two is repeated in years three and four, our areas together will be looking at axing an extra 1,000 firefighters, 150 extra staff and another 40 fire engines. We worked with the Minister’s predecessor very closely over the past nine months. I pay tribute to the hon.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. At Stoke-on-Trent, which is similar to Rotherham, he mentioned 1,800 students; in Rotherham and Barnsley, there are probably 3,000 students over 24 who could be hit by up to £4,000 a year extra, for the first time ever paying the full cost of their fees and having to take out student loans for further education. Does he agree that that will put people off and that it is perhaps the worst possible time to introduce student loans for further education, when people are worried about their jobs, their debt and how they are going to pay the bills?”
“When I came into the Chamber, the Minister said, “Are you here to pay tribute to my work?” I have been known to do that and I suspect that his hand has been forced somewhat on this question of student loans. Before he moves off the impact assessment and the research, is he not worried that that research showed that only one in 10 current students would definitely do their course if they were faced with having student loans as he is proposing?”
“In his big red file, does the Leader of the House have a copy of every one of the 28 written ministerial statements tabled today, including the one confirming that the Government are cutting funding for further education courses for older students, which will mean that those over 24 will have to pay up to £4,000 a year at a time when they are worried about jobs, debt and how to pay the bills? It has been tabled, with the regulations, just three days before the summer recess, preventing this House from properly challenging this big change. Will he make time for a debate on the change in this Chamber?”
“The Financial Secretary mentioned supporting growth. As he will know, as part of the preparation for the EU’s next budget period there are proposals for “transition regions” status, which could benefit at least 11 regions in this country. We in south Yorkshire are aware of the benefits that it could bring by supporting local jobs, businesses and growth. Are the Government in favour of the concept of transition regions?”
“I am not entirely sure whether that was a yes, a no, a maybe, or an “I don’t like to say.” The Financial Secretary will know that the qualification for transition regions status is a GDP that is between 75% and 90% of the EU average. Some parts of our country require that extra help; they need more balanced growth, and support for jobs and businesses. Does the Financial Secretary support the concept—I am not asking about the quantum—of transition regions in the next EU budget period?”
“But I hope actually that he may stand up to tell us that the motion is not needed and the review is not needed because he will introduce that sort of compensation scheme to cover the costs of VAT on fuel and will do so on a similar basis to the one we have established with the precedent of helping with the VAT costs of church repairs.”
“I say two things to the Minister in conclusion. We are not asking in today’s motion for the same sort of exclusion from VAT that the lifeboat service has. We are not asking today for the same sort of VAT rebate scheme that has been in place to support the cost of church repairs. We are asking simply for a review to look at the fairness of the situation and the case for making a small public contribution to the voluntary efforts of those who keep our air ambulances flying. I hope that, in responding to this debate, he will accept the terms of the motion and the review that is urged upon him.”
“It is funded by the public to provide a vital emergency service for the public across our county. Since the debate started, I reckon that our fundraisers in Yorkshire will have had to raise at least £300 as a contribution towards keeping our two helicopters and our service going. That is a total of more than £7,000 a day or £2.65 million a year. They do this because they understand, like we do, how vital this emergency service is and how essential it is in many parts of our county that patients requiring such help can be at their nearest hospital within 10 minutes. It flies more than 1,000 missions each year, which is a unique and essential service, of interest and concern to us all. As others have said, the fuel costs are about £10,000 a month and the VAT costs are something under £6,000 a year.”
“All of them are sustained by the dedicated efforts of those who raise funds to help finance the costs and all are kept flying by the dedicated, skilled, professional staff who provide this vital emergency service. I am particularly pleased that the Yorkshire caucus is so strong in the House tonight, with not only my hon. Friend the Member for York Central leading the charge but the hon. Members for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) and for York Outer (Julian Sturdy), whom I am delighted to follow. Like most other air ambulance services, ours is a charity. It is, so to speak, the airborne wing of the Prime Minister’s big society. It deserves the House’s support in deed, not just in word, and the sort of support that the motion is urging on the Government.”