Wera Hobhouse
MP for Bath · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Q4. Community energy is a fantastic way of empowering communities and helping with both energy security and the cost of living. The Energy Security and Net Zero Committee recently published a report in which we identified that people living around a community energy project still cannot buy that electricity because of complex market regul…”
“The 20% rate cut for music venues and pubs is of course very welcome, but what my high street in Bath really needs is an overhaul of the business rates system, which the Labour Government promised.”
“First, it would help us properly understand the scale of the problem. Without consistent recording, misogyny remains largely invisible in official data, despite being a common factor in many forms of abuse. Secondly, it would improve accountability.”
“That means that misogynistic content is not just present; it is incentivised and rewarded. For victims, the impact is devastating. They are ridiculed and humiliated, they face reputational damage, and they are left fearing for their safety in public.”
“The Government’s amendment to the Crime and Policing Act to recognise misogyny as an aggravating factor in some crimes is a welcome step in the right direction, but they must go further. That means amending the Sentencing Act 2020 so that all crimes motivated by misogyny are classed as hate crimes.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Tony Vaughan) on introducing the debate so thoughtfully. For months, I have been campaigning for legislation to combat the alarming trend of nightlife filming.”
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“I congratulate the last two speakers on their powerful maiden speeches. Both of them were most moving. As we always discover in this place, there is more that unites us than divides us. What unites me with the hon. Member for Weald of Kent (Katie Lam) is clearly Jane Austen. I say to the hon. Member for Hyndburn (Sarah Smith) that I lived in east Lancashire for 15 years, and I know the area well. I was sorry to hear about the loss for her family. I am pleased that many of the measures that we Liberal Democrats have been campaigning for over many years have been included in this Bill. I am most pleased about the reinstatement, in clauses 15 and 16, of the original wording of my Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Act 2023.”
“The new rules on wine duty being implemented in February 2025 will be overly complicated and incredibly burdensome, especially for smaller, independent wine importers such as Canned Wine in Bath. The chief executive officer of that local business told me that the incremental duty rates will put incredible strain on their business. Can we have a debate in Government time on this important issue?”
“That happens only because too many sufferers are left untreated when full recovery was perfectly possible.”
“In 2024, no one should be condemned to a life of illness, nor should anyone die of an eating disorder.”
“When eating disorders are left undiagnosed or poorly treated, they can be killers. Eating disorders are the mental health disorder with the highest mortality rate, and there is still a stigma surrounding them. There are still too many who think that having an eating disorder is a choice. What a terrible thing to say about people who are suffering from an illness—that it is a choice. Only 6% of people with an eating disorder are underweight, yet some eating disorder services—and GP services—still only offer treatment to patients depending on their body mass index. Many eating disorder sufferers are told that they are not thin, or not thin enough. Others are told, once they return with an even lower BMI, that they are too sick or their condition is too complex to be treated.”
“Today I speak as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on eating disorders. Eating disorders are a national emergency. Hospital admissions have risen by 84% in the past five years, while more than 80,000 sufferers are stuck on waiting lists while their condition gets seriously worse. Eating disorders are treatable, but the treatment must be timely and appropriate if sufferers are to make a full recovery. Early diagnosis is crucial. According to the charity Beat, approximately 1.25 million people in the UK have an eating disorder, and I am sure that many of my colleagues have either a friend or family member or know about a constituent who is suffering from an eating disorder. The sooner a person with an eating disorder accesses the right treatment, the more likely they are to recover.”
“I would rather not, because too many people want to speak. NHS waiting times are one of the biggest barriers to treatment. At the end of 2023-24, more than 10,000 children had entered treatment for an eating disorder, but 12% of those were made to wait over three months for treatment—three times the target for a routine referral. Missing the target waiting time standard can severely harm the progress of a child’s recovery. Even more shockingly, an access and waiting time standard for adults does not even exist. I will continue to work tirelessly to improve eating disorder care, in particular by fighting for improved access for treatment and for more suitable treatment options for individual patients. We on the APPG have commissioned an inquiry, and I hope the Government will carefully listen to the recommendations.”
“Those are measures that the Liberal Democrats and I support and have called for.”
“The highly addictive nature of Spice makes it a gateway to criminal activity, coercion and abuse. Being in that state inevitably makes young people incredibly vulnerable, and one user described smoking Spice as like “being in a coma”. This year, a group of schoolchildren in south-east London were hospitalised by an illicit vape, with one of them ending up in an induced coma. Headteachers have spoken about children collapsing in hallways. One school in London wrote to all parents following concerns about the risks of children experiencing severe health problems, and the same story is replicated across the country.”
“Spice, on the other hand, is cheap and abundant in the UK. It is therefore in the interest of dealers to use this highly addictive substance under the pretence that it is cannabis. Spice is highly addictive. It is a class B drug that is commonly used in prisons. Synthetic cannabinoids are associated with half of non-natural deaths in prisons. Addiction to Spice inevitably leads to serious high-risk health outcomes, including hallucinations, dizziness, chest pain, breathing difficulties and damage to vital organs. Spice users are frequently seen slumped on the street in a state of semi-consciousness, unkindly described by some in the media as seeming “zombified”. There have been numerous instances of children collapsing at school, requiring hospitalisation and intensive care, and tragically becoming addicted to Spice.”
“What is more shocking is that when the vapes were confiscated, it was not because of a suspicion that they contained illicit drugs. I recently met Professor Pudney to gain a better understanding of the wider issue and the device being used to detect synthetic drugs. Speaking to Chris and seeing the detection device up close, it struck me just how serious the issue is for young people. Many of the confiscated vapes containing Spice were made to look exactly like a normal product from a shop, and they are usually sold as containing THC. Children are therefore inadvertently consuming Spice while under the impression that it is cannabis. Vapes containing THC are common in the United States, where they are legal in some states, but it is expensive and difficult to import them into the UK.”
“Research conducted by the University of Bath has uncovered that one in six vapes confiscated in schools contained the synthetic drug Spice. Using a device developed at the university—the world’s first portable device that instantly detects synthetic drugs—Professor Chris Pudney conducted tests in 38 schools in London, the west midlands, Greater Manchester and south Yorkshire. Tests on just under 600 vapes confiscated in schools revealed that one in six contained Spice, while one in 100 contained tetrahydrocannabinol or THC, the psychoactive component of cannabis. Spice was found in confiscated vapes in nearly three quarters of the schools studied. The researchers say that the findings are likely representative of the situation across the country.”
“When I raised the issue at business questions last week, the Leader of the House assured me that the issue would be addressed in the tobacco and vapes Bill. I would like clarity from the Government on what that will look like. It is already illegal to sell vapes to children, and Spice is illegal for everyone. Which specific parts of the Bill will target illegal drugs and vapes? Crucial to this issue is that the vapes that contained Spice were almost all refillable, not single use. Refillable vapes are rechargeable and feature an empty pod that can be filled with the liquid of choice. The Bill is largely focused on disposable vapes. It will hopefully introduce much-needed measures to restrict the flavours of vapes and stop the free distribution of vapes to children.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for the intervention. I am just naming one area with experience of the issue, where headteachers have come forward. He is right: this issue applies across the country, and especially affects vulnerable communities. We all have them in our constituencies. That is why this is relevant to all of us. The issue is far more common than previously thought. We need to increase awareness of it among parents and teachers, and I hope that this debate will go some way towards doing that. It is not just the health outcomes of Spice that are harmful, but the criminality and abuse that becoming addicted to such a drug can lead to. For young people who are vulnerable, that can include being pressured into drug dealing themselves through blackmail or other forms of coercion.”
“We must not forget that we are talking about already vulnerable young people who are made even more vulnerable by this serious problem. The tobacco and vapes Bill, in its current form, will not solve the problem. Amending the Bill with the provisions I have outlined is crucial to protecting young people from the devastating consequences of Spice. I am looking forward to hearing what the Government have to say today, but I am also looking forward to further co-operation. We all must be aware of the terrible risks we are facing by exposing young people to those dangers, but also to a life of serious addiction.”
“Finally, we should require schools to implement educational programmes on the dangers of Spice, deceptive marketing tactics and the risks associated with online and street-level purchase. The NHS should provide funding for harm reduction programmes, including support services. With the help of Professor Pudney and the University of Bath, I would be very willing to work with the Government to establish a national campaign to educate young people about the dangers of Spice and to empower them to make informed decisions about their health and wellbeing. Tackling this serious problem requires a targeted and proactive approach from the Government across various different Departments, including the Home Office, Health and Education.”
“The Secretary of State should consider establishing a taskforce composed of technology company representatives and cyber-security experts to develop and implement methods for detecting and disrupting online illicit substance distribution networks. We must allocate increased funding and resources to law enforcement agencies for online surveillance, investigation and prosecution of illicit vendors. Secondly, we should expand enforcement strategies beyond retail channels—in particular, postal and courier services should be required to implement protocols for identifying and intercepting suspicious packages containing Spice-laced vapes. I know that is not easy, but we must at least consider that serious problem.”
“That misdirected focus may even unintentionally exacerbate the problem by shifting demand towards refillable vapes, which are more easily manipulated for illicit purposes. Finally, the Bill underestimates the complexity of the illicit market. It does not account for the sophisticated tactics employed by drug traffickers, including encrypted communication, cryptocurrency transactions and direct-to-consumer delivery. That under- estimation hinders effective enforcement strategies. I suggest three provisions to amend the Bill before it is introduced. First, we must improve regulatory oversight for online platforms. We should mandate content moderation policies for social media platforms and online retailers in order to prohibit the sale and promotion of Spice-laced vapes.”
“The Government must do more to inform students, teachers, parents and carers of the scale of the problem, and to warn them of the consequences of unknowingly consuming Spice. I hope that the Minister also realises that the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, in its current form, will do little to prevent the problem. There are a few critical deficiencies in the Bill. First, it neglects online distribution networks. Its emphasis on traditional retail channels does not address the crucial role of online platforms and social media in the distribution of Spice-laced vapes. That omission allows illicit vendors to operate with minimal regulatory oversight. Secondly, the Bill misplaces emphasis on disposable vapes. Although well-intentioned, the proposed ban on disposable vapes overlooks the prevalent use of refillable devices for Spice consumption.”
“Having police in schools to talk to students, teachers and parents is crucial. Parents need to be aware of the signs that their child could be at risk. It is not just the public that needs more awareness of these issues; we politicians do, too. We are told that the Government are bringing in new restrictions on the sale of vapes to children, but further restrictions to something that is already illegal does little to assure experts that appropriate action is being taken. The Leader of the House mentioned that those restrictions would come alongside further measures, and I look forward to hearing what they will be. I have some questions for the Minister. There needs to be an immediate raising of awareness on the issue.”
“The tobacco and vapes Bill presents a timely opportunity to address the escalating threat, but amendments must be carefully considered to effectively combat the unique challenges posed by Spice. The illicit vapes are almost always refillable, with the Spice liquid mainly obtained online. Changing the packaging of legal single-use vapes sold in physical shops will do nothing to address the issue. Too often, the Government reflex is to ban something without understanding the underlying issues. If the Government believe that putting an end to pretty packaging will have an effect on Spice, I ask them to think again. One way in which we can push back against the problem is through education. We need to raise awareness of the issue so that the public has a better understanding of it.”
“I agree with the hon. Lady. Young people are very vulnerable, and some parts of the Bill will address the issue, but I am talking today about refills, and what the Government intend to do about them and their ready availability on the internet. The Metropolitan police have warned parents that many children get their hands on illicit vapes through social media platforms, such as Snapchat and Telegram. Gone are the days when someone needed to meet a sketchy person in a back alley to get hold of illegal drugs. These days, the drugs are readily available over the internet, and that is a big part of the problem. The ease with which the drugs are trafficked via social media, coupled with the widespread prevalence of vaping in schools, is hugely worrying and demands immediate intervention.”
“I was a secondary school teacher before I came to this House, and I know how difficult it is to teach properly in lessons that are often after the normal school time. Of course, this is one of the things we can do, but it clearly needs a targeted campaign. Does the Minister not agree that this problem is so alarming that we need to look at a dedicated campaign, rather than leaving it to lessons that I know reach some, but not many, young people?”
“An additional problem is that small community energy projects cannot provide directly—cannot sell directly—to the consumer. That is one of the major problems. Therefore, the Government should really put their mind to it and accept our amendment, so that we can assure our communities that the Government are really serious about this issue. Does my hon. Friend agree?”
“The hon. Gentleman is a new Member of Parliament; I have been here a little longer. Those of us who have been here longer always want to ensure that something is in statute—in law—because we parliamentarians are always a little wary of leaving it to a further document that may or may not come. We would like to see some assurances in law to ensure that whatever has been promised will actually happen. Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern?”
“Will the Minister confirm that he said that we might cross-reference the five functions in the Bill? In that way, people will be clear, for example, that community energy is cross-referenced in the Bill as one of the five functions. Did he say that earlier?”
“I have an honest question. Since energy is sold in a daily, 10-minute or whatever market, and that market operates, how can the Government ensure that the market behaves in the way they want it to behave? Is that question useful? I want to understand what the hon. Gentleman’s amendment will actually do to guarantee the price, since British energy operates in a market.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. The second part of his reply answered what I am worried about, and what we as a Committee have been worried about all along, which is parliamentary scrutiny. Will the Minister advise at what point that parliamentary scrutiny can be exercised?”
“Road safety is one of the main reasons why young people do not cycle, and that is particularly true in cities such as Bath, where the historic infrastructure makes it difficult. What will the Government do to help young cyclists in particular by making roads safer in Bath?”
“May I also wish the Leader of the House a very happy birthday? Fifty is definitely the new 30 in her case. An investigation by researchers at the University of Bath has revealed that schoolchildren in England are unknowingly smoking vapes spiked with the synthetic drug Spice, which is highly addictive. Tests on just under 600 confiscated vapes revealed that one in six contained Spice. That is an alarming figure. The Government must raise awareness of this issue in schools to educate young people, teachers and parents. Can we have a debate in Government time to raise this serious issue and discuss how we can protect young people from a life of serious addiction?”
“That being said, I think GB Energy will have its own criteria, strategy and approach, which is absolutely fine. But it needs to be in the context of a level playing field from a competitive standpoint. That is really important.”
“That will ensure that what GB Energy is effectively legislated to be able to do does not adversely impact a competitive playing field. It is important to make sure that that is maintained. Ultimately, if there is a tilting of the playing field towards GB Energy, that will be a bad deal for either the taxpayer or the consumer. Tristan Zipfel: I concur with what was said. It is really important that the establishment of GB Energy does not disrupt the dozens of billions of pounds that are going to be directed by the private sector into the renewables sector, or the clean energy sector in general, over the next decades. For that it is important to maintain trust in the fact that it is indeed going to be a level playing field and that GB Energy is not going to benefit from forms of assistance that would disrupt competition.”
“Q Thank you for answering our questions. In the morning sitting we struggled with the fact that although we all hope the Bill will do something, it has relatively little detail. We have already discussed the merits of not having too much detail, because then GB Energy would be hampered, and of having more detail. We have to try to find a balance in what we agree to in legislation. When you look at clause 4, are you content with the scope of the financial assistance provisions? Alistair McGirr: Yes, frankly. I think there will be other protections in place—what was in old money called state aid protections but is now subsidy control. There will be wider provisions that ensure that GB Energy does not have adverse impacts on investment into the competitor space, be they state aid provisions or subsidy control provisions.”
“The thing for me—again, it may not be an issue for the Bill itself, but it will be interesting to watch—will be how bound Great British Energy is to the specifics of the Secretary of State’s statement and what latitude it has beyond that, because clearly it will want to take its own commercial decisions. Fundamental to its independence and ability to crowd in private finance will be that it is taking commercial decisions with strong justification. That is an area that may not need any greater clarity in the Bill, but it will be one thing that private investors will look at quite closely.”
“Sometimes timelines can be very useful because they give clarity, externally, as to when priorities will be updated and when there will be new interventions from Government, but sometimes they do not necessarily reflect the external environment as things change. If there were to be a decision to include an additional requirement around the timeframe, I think you would still want the ability to respond to external events as the world changes, to ensure that the priorities set out to the institution could adapt as the external world changes. Obviously, that is very true in the energy transition. Clause 5(8) states that Great British Energy must have the ability “to publish and act in accordance with” that statement.”
“Q Following on from what you were saying about uncertainties, and how we have the Bill but then there are all sorts of other questions, it is about creating certainties for us as legislators, to some extent, as well as for investors. Clause 5 says that “the Secretary of State must prepare a statement of strategic priorities”. Do you think that it would be important to have a timescale for that, so that we know when the Secretary of State is preparing the strategic priorities, and so that it happens quite quickly? That is something that we can do: put a possible time limit or timeframe into this Bill. Josh Buckland : That is a very good question; I look back to my time as a civil servant.”
“Can we put anything in the Bill to make addressing that particular gap more of a priority? David Whitehouse: I am sorry; I wish I could give you a better answer. I have spoken with our members. In some way, shape or form, we think the Bill as it stands is broad and provides the opportunity for the Secretary of State and others to bring forward the statement of principles. That is where we would see some of that. The Government will also bring forward an industrial strategy, and linked to that will be our energy policy. I think there is such a good opportunity within those—we will have representation from industry, which understands some of the issues, and there will be representatives from our investors across the sector. From our members’ feedback, I think that is where they would see that input: in those broader ways.”
“Q We have been round the houses several times today. We need to see whether we can add anything to the Bill, whether something is missing from it or whether a lot of this will become clearer once the Secretary of State prepares a statement of strategic priorities or we understand the governance structures—all that. You are identifying all the stuff to do with future development of technologies that we do not even know about. There was a question this morning about whether the Bill should specify that GB Energy should look at the gap in financial markets when it comes to support for new technology companies that otherwise would not make it through the valleys of death. As I understand it, there are not enough financial products out there, from private equity, ordinary banks or other investment opportunities.”
“An investment vehicle is badly needed on its own because it is something we do not have, which makes us almost unique among advanced economies. Looking at the Bill itself, there are parts that could be fleshed out. We would like to see more about skills, as I just mentioned, and there are some parts that we need to look at, but that is an evolutionary process as opposed to something we definitely need in the Bill now.”
“Q It is good to hear from you again, Andy—we had a discussion a few weeks ago. At the beginning of your remarks today you said, as others have said, that GB Energy should not just be an investment vehicle; it should be so much more. We have to deal with this Bill and see whether it will meet the ambitions of your members for GB Energy to be more than just an investment vehicle. Is there anywhere in the Bill where you think, “Hmm—there’s a gap where this could be emphasised to make sure that GB Energy doesn’t become just an investment vehicle?” Andy Prendergast: From a lot of the conversations we have had, talking about a one-stop shop, assistance in planning and further regulatory support, I think that is something that will evolve over time and will be matched by the funding.”
“We are quite open about what it looks like, but we want to create a landscape where Great British Energy can invest and also provide some capacity to help organisations to get over the line. We all know that local government is struggling and is on its knees right across the country, after years of underfunding. The capacity to deliver a lot of the projects is not there, so GB Energy can fill that gap.”
“For us, there is the belief that communities having a stake in those projects is important: communities having ownership and feeling part of the mission will help us with some of the arguments for the amount of infrastructure that we will have to build in the next few years. Also, in certain areas we want small-scale generation projects to have access to connections that bigger projects cannot have. Frankly, in a lot of cases, building the power generation near the population is where we have issues with spatial energy planning across the country. There are huge opportunities. We are committed to increasing community ownership. We have also said in the local power plan that it could look like municipal ownership of certain generation projects, or it could look like local authorities or combined authorities.”
“Michael Shanks: I think it is a combination of things. I urge you to read the Great British Energy founding statement document alongside the Bill, because it is important. The Bill is about setting up a company, and what we do not want to do is hamstring that company by putting in so much detail that it cannot move into the right places that give good investment opportunities for the taxpayer and deliver good energy projects. The statement makes it clear that community energy, for example, is a key part of our local power plan. We want to see many more community-owned energy projects, for a combination of reasons. They have real social and economic benefits for communities.”
“Q We have heard a lot of evidence from lots of people with lots of hopes, who understood that in the end the Bill could be all things to all people. I understand that it is not great to put too much detail in it, but I worry that it is very general and that we will end up with nobody being quite clear what GB Energy is ultimately for. For example, because the witness representing EDF came from a country with a different culture of ownership, they talked about public ownership. If we are going very wide, is something like GB Energy ultimately a vehicle to create more public ownership? In that context, are we talking about just community energy products, which we obviously understand are under some form of public ownership, or are we talking about a completely different ownership landscape that we will see in future?”
“This is where we will be doing a lot of the early consenting and engaging on the willingness to co-invest and give confidence, but we will also be there past the CfDs. As and when the schemes get developed, there may be opportunities to come in and be a co-investor. We would also be supporting that.”
“Q Good morning, Mr Maier. It is very good to see you here. I have some questions about the overall aims that the Bill and the company are trying to achieve. You have just said that it will be an enabler, so we have to imagine it as something that will happen before any contracts for difference are attributed. It is an enabler to make people and companies ready to bid into the CfDs, for example. Is that how you see the role? People are used to the status quo, and the CfDs have been very successful. Some companies are wondering how it is all going to fit together. Juergen Maier: Certainly the enabling part of what we do will be pre-CfDs, as you say. That is also where our partnership with the Crown Estate comes in.”
“Q Does the Bill give us enough clarity? How will other financial institutions, such as the UK Infrastructure Bank or the British Business Bank, support what GB Energy is trying to do? The Bill is very short, so I wonder whether there is enough scope within it to explain that to investors. Juergen Maier: There will be two things. The Bill clearly sets out the structure of how we will set up Great British Energy and the key areas of focus. Obviously there will then be a business plan and a framework agreement between us and the Secretary of State, in which we will have to clarify exactly those questions and where Great British Energy and the UKIB take their role. Those are things that will need to be clarified, but I do not think that putting them in the Bill would particularly help us to do that.”
“Q I have one last question about the timeframes, which are very vague. The Bill states: “The Secretary of State must prepare a statement of strategic priorities for Great British Energy.” Do you have any idea of when we can expect that statement to be laid before Parliament? Juergen Maier: I am not sure of the exact timings. Maybe when you get evidence from the Minister he will be able to put a time on that.”
“If GBE is delivered, starts to operate and gives confidence to the direction of energy policy, other investors will see this as a serious proposition and therefore we will be engaging in this huge process of energy transition. As I said just a moment ago, it also means that talented people can see a future. We want to be part of that. So, within the process of parliamentary drafting, the more that we have a clear set of objectives—actually differentiating it as a public entity and setting the tone for what you want from energy assets in the future—the better, because that will give that confidence. That also has a knock-on effect for the confidence of private investors in other parts of the energy environment.”
“Q Good morning. I want to come back to clause 5 of the Bill, which is about the statement of strategic priorities. Most of what I have heard this morning is that we are a bit worried about there not being enough detail on certain things. Should there be more detail about the strategic priorities in the Bill, such as job creation, or should there be a precise timeline for when we can actually expect that? The whole purpose of the Bill is to speed up all that energy transition, and currently we do not know when we will see a statement. Is it important that we actually get some timelines in the Bill? Mike Clancy: The simple answer is yes. The longer there is a concept phase, albeit a positive concept phase, the more that we are talking about a multiplier effect from GBE in many respects.”