Wera Hobhouse
MP for Bath · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“Q4. Community energy is a fantastic way of empowering communities and helping with both energy security and the cost of living. The Energy Security and Net Zero Committee recently published a report in which we identified that people living around a community energy project still cannot buy that electricity because of complex market regul…”
“The 20% rate cut for music venues and pubs is of course very welcome, but what my high street in Bath really needs is an overhaul of the business rates system, which the Labour Government promised.”
“First, it would help us properly understand the scale of the problem. Without consistent recording, misogyny remains largely invisible in official data, despite being a common factor in many forms of abuse. Secondly, it would improve accountability.”
“That means that misogynistic content is not just present; it is incentivised and rewarded. For victims, the impact is devastating. They are ridiculed and humiliated, they face reputational damage, and they are left fearing for their safety in public.”
“The Government’s amendment to the Crime and Policing Act to recognise misogyny as an aggravating factor in some crimes is a welcome step in the right direction, but they must go further. That means amending the Sentencing Act 2020 so that all crimes motivated by misogyny are classed as hate crimes.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Tony Vaughan) on introducing the debate so thoughtfully. For months, I have been campaigning for legislation to combat the alarming trend of nightlife filming.”
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“As I have said, many gambling companies already require financial data for gamblers to be able to open an account, so for many who reach the £100 cap no additional information would be required. If someone wished to bet beyond that loss limit, they would be required to provide financial data to show that they can afford to do so. The affordability checks would be run separately from any individual gambling company. There would be confidential sharing of data between different gambling companies so that an individual could not get close to the cap with several companies at the same time. We need a single, independently run system of affordability checks that treats people with dignity. Data collected for that purpose would be held securely and confidentially and solely for that purpose.”
“The majority of gambling problems stem from people chasing their losses and spending more than they can afford; I think I have heard that about gambling addiction, although I am not an expert. Ultimately, people get most excited by betting more if they have lost something. In fact, we have also heard that when people are winning, they are sometimes excluded from betting more. That is absolutely not right. We Liberal Democrats are adding something to this debate: we would adopt a public health approach to gambling legislation. We propose that there should be a soft cap on gambling losses set at £100 per month. That proposed cap is much higher than the vast majority of gamblers lose in a month, so occasional gamblers would not be affected in any way and would not appear on any database.”
“It is right that checks will be frictionless, but Bath racecourse is concerned that intrusive checks could put off punters, as we have heard. I am not an expert—I do not own any moderately successful racehorses—but occasionally I go to a race, and it is absolutely true that it is fun to put a bet on a horse, because we are invested in that horse. That is fine for most people. We should absolutely ensure that that sort of betting is not intrusively checked; that if somebody wins, they can bet and try their luck again; and that we are not stopping all those types of betting or the fun that people have at racecourses—the majority of people have harmless fun.”
“It was also a vaccination hub during the pandemic. It is an important employer and welcomes thousands of visitors. Not surprisingly, many of my constituents have signed the petition. British racing is particularly vulnerable to changes made to gambling regulations and, as we have already heard many times this afternoon, we must ensure that we get this right. The racecourse has expressed concerns to me about proposed affordability checks. It believes that a one-size-fits-all approach will not work, and I echo that. Proposed affordability checks currently will be the same for everyone, no matter how much they can earn or what their disposable betting income is. Bath racecourse has welcomed Government assurances that most consumers will not actively notice checks taking place.”
“We have already heard that exact sentence this afternoon. We need to ensure that problem gambling does not ruin more lives. We all believe in the need to protect people from gambling harms, and reforms are overdue: the UK has 400,000 problem gamblers, including some 60,000 children aged 11 to 16. Those figures are stark. My constituency, however, is lucky to enjoy an active and vibrant horseracing scene. Bath is Britain’s highest flat racecourse, with a distinguished history of racing going back to 1811. Racing was first recorded in Bath in 1728, which is a reminder that people did not go to Bath just to take the waters. Bath racecourse is an incredibly important venue for the city. It hosts more than 20 races each season but, much more, it is also a venue for family days, live music and many other large-scale events.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under you in the Chair, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees) on introducing the debate, which has already shown that this is very much a question of balance. We recognise the problem of gambling and gambling addiction, but we also understand that there are many forms of gambling, and the majority of people speaking today are here because we support horseracing and racecourses. We must ensure that we try to stop harm, which we are all absolutely in favour of doing, but do not put the baby out with the bathwater by putting out of business the wonderful facilities in our communities that enjoy so much support. If affordability checks are to be implemented, they should be carefully and deliberately targeted at those most at risk of harm.”
“I have followed the whole of the debate, and I want to say quickly that this is not a party political issue. It is an issue for all those who feel that horseracing gives us so much across all communities. I sincerely hope that the Minister believes it is a cross-party issue that we all must address.”
“Throughout this debate, we have not really mentioned these beautiful creatures, the joy we get from watching them race, or all those people who work with, train and look after them. That is really important to all of us who have spoken today.”
“Over 1 million girls lose interest in sports when they become teenagers, mainly due to lack of confidence and feeling judged, but we know how beneficial sports are for mental health, and there are many other benefits. How has the Department included gender in the implementation of the multi-sport grassroots facilities programme?”
“I have been contacted by my constituent, Diana Francis—who is a Quaker—about her deep concern regarding the sudden withdrawal of funds for the Inter Faith Network. My inter-faith group in Bath has done invaluable work to bring communities together, nurturing tolerance, understanding, and the dialogue that is so important between people of different religious backgrounds. Can the Minister not see how this sudden decision to withdraw funding at a time of heightened tensions only drives division, and that people in my constituency are really concerned that there is nothing that will replace an organisation as unique as the Inter Faith Network?”
“For much of last year, my colleagues on the board and I were working hard to identify a shortlist of options for delivering restoration and renewal that we felt would command the support of Members throughout the House. Given all the work we have put in, it is frustrating that we are still no closer to making progress. We need to maintain momentum and get on with R&R. When and how will Members be updated on the various options and proposals so that we can move forward and restore the building? This is important work that needs to be done to keep us and everyone who works here safe.”
“May I add my thanks to the security services who are working so hard and effectively to keep us all safe? They did sterling work at a community meeting that I held last week in my constituency, and I thank them very much for that. As the Leader of the House will know, I am a member of the Restoration and Renewal Programme Board. We all love this magnificent place of work and appreciate being able to work in this wonderful Palace of Westminster, but the structure of the place is not in a good way. As has been said during the programme board’s meetings, it needs open heart surgery. [Interruption.] I am talking about the structure of this place.”
“Member for South Shields for this Bill, which will go some way towards improving the law. However, we need to take another look at the licensing system and consider whether it is fit for purpose.”
“The change from the affirmative to the negative procedure is important because sporting events often happen in the summer when Parliament is not sitting. A change in licensing procedure would have enabled many pubs in Bath to open earlier during the women’s World cup final, allowing fans to take in the atmosphere before the game and allowing the pubs to take in more profits. However, the Bill will fix only a small part of the inadequate statutory framework, the basic flaws of which have, if anything, been compounded by subsequent piecemeal amendments. The House of Lords Liaison Committee’s post-legislative scrutiny follow-up report in 2022 found that flaws in the licensing system remained unresolved and that significant reform was required. I am grateful to the hon.”
“I rise to add a few words of support for the Bill from the Liberal Democrats and myself. In Bath we love our pubs as much as anybody else. I am sure that we have all heard from the hospitality sector in our constituencies about how tough the past few years have been. We are lucky to have a thriving hospitality sector in Bath, but businesses still face many challenges. Clause 1 is integral to preventing pubs from missing out again on opening early, as happened when the Lionesses reached the World cup final last summer. In Bath we have Bath Rugby and Bath City football club, of which I am a fan. Our women’s team is doing very well, too; it is always good to have an opportunity to praise them and to repeat our admiration for what all our women’s teams achieve.”
“Has this short discussion not illustrated my point that we should look more widely at changing the licensing regime, because it is not really fit for purpose? We now live in a global world, and sometimes there are events, even if they are planned, that do not fit in with our licensing regime.”
“As it stands, remaining part of the treaty leaves the UK vulnerable to compensation claims from investors for the early closure of coal, oil and gas plants. Attempts to modernise the ECT to protect countries from libel and to drive investment in renewables have failed. Denmark, France, Germany, Poland, Slovenia, Spain and the Netherlands have all announced their intention to withdraw. Italy withdrew back in 2016. Why should we not join them? The new clause provides a vehicle to do that. It is incomprehensible that we have to discuss this Bill. It is a bad Bill, but the amendments I have just mentioned would make it a little better.”
“Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), unconditionally approved the new Affleck oil and gas field, whose operators will be able to burn methane until 2037. We must also mandate monthly leak detection and repair activity. As we have said in the past, it is incomprehensible why the Government are on the one hand saying one thing, but on the other not acting. We must do something about methane. It is a complete dereliction of duty if we do not support that new clause. The other amendment I want to speak to new clause 23, which would insert a new energy charter test. Many of my constituents have voiced strong concerns about our continuing to be part of the energy charter treaty. That energy charter test would be met if we withdrew from the treaty.”
“Methane stays for much less time in the atmosphere, but it is still there. Reducing methane emissions is such an obvious thing to do. The UK has signed a global pledge to cut methane levels by 30%, and a ban on oil and gas flaring and venting in the North sea would dramatically reduce methane emissions. The International Energy Agency has said that UK oil and gas operators could reduce methane emissions by more than 70% by tackling venting, flaring and leaking. That is supported by the Environmental Audit Committee and the Government-commissioned independent review of net zero. However, the Government’s track record is not good enough. In his last few days in office, the former Energy Secretary, the right hon.”
“This February is on course to break an unprecedented number of heat records, and the dangers of failing to reach net zero are staring us in the face. This Bill flies in the face of our climate change commitments, and it will do nothing to secure energy security and nothing to lower energy bills, and we Liberal Democrats continue to oppose it. I will mention two amendments that we strongly support, as they are on areas where we Liberal Democrats have tabled amendments in the past. The Bill is silent about methane and needs amending. We therefore strongly support new clause 12 to prevent methane flaring. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas with 80 times the warming effect of CO 2 . It accounts for 30% of global greenhouse gas emissions. It has often been seen as a quick win.”
“How does the hon. Gentleman propose to get to net zero by 2050 and a temperature rise of no more than 1.5C? Our current projections exceed all that. All I hear is that we have to increase oil and gas production in the North sea, but that is the wrong path to net zero. How will we limit temperature rises to 1.5C and ensure that we do not carry on the current trajectory of well over 2C? The Government do not have an answer for that.”
“As I said on Second Reading, it was introduced for political reasons, not because the Government are genuinely intent on any outcome except electoral gain. That is why we should oppose the Bill and make it very clear to our citizens that it does nothing for energy security, nothing to get us to net zero, and nothing to curb energy bills. All Members of the House in their right mind should oppose this Bill.”
“We need a Government who will guide the economy into the net zero future, because we need to secure a prosperous future, in the long term, for all people, rather than concentrating on a short-term election issue that may divide Members after such a long period of consensus on the need to reach net zero. While the Government claim that new licences will improve energy security, the reality is very different. Between now and 2050, new licences are expected to provide an average of only four days of gas per annum. All that the Bill does is send a symbolic signal. It does not even meet the requirement that the Government have set themselves—securing energy for the future of this country. That is why I think the Bill is so dangerous.”
“I have heard repeatedly, throughout the debate, “We are responding to demand.” Of course there will be demand for as long as we provide unlimited supply, and of course the oil and gas industry itself will want to drill for every last drop of oil for as long as it can, but it is for a responsible Government to make a responsible decision, and to look the dangers that confront us in the face. The tobacco industry says that there is demand for smoking materials, and the Government have understood their responsibility to stop that demand because smoking is dangerous, but they fail to see or understand the dangers of climate change.”
“It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), who has made a powerful case in explaining why the Bill should never have reached the House. This month is on course to break an unprecedented number of heat records, and the dangers of failing to reach net zero are staring us in the face. I say this again and again, and the hon. Lady has made a very powerful point. This Government, in the name of “protecting jobs”, are turning their back on their net zero commitments, and I find that, and the way in which this debate is being run, incredibly dishonest. If the debate were honest, it would reflect the fact that the Government have shown their true face, and are delaying the climate action that is so necessary.”
“The moral and scientific case for tighter regulation of laboratory testing is clear. It is time that the Government listened to increasing numbers of scientists and voters.”
“Although we should be proud that the UK has some of the highest welfare standards in the world, we must build on our robust record and lead by example. To achieve that, greater funding is required to support the development of new technologies and new, innovative testing methods. Sadly, Government funding for such methods currently represents less than 1% of total UK biomedical research. We can do better, and I would particularly like to hear from the Minister on this point. We know that increased research funding often pays back multiple times to the economy—we have had a debate on research funding in this Chamber before—so investment makes good sense. There is no excuse for animal cruelty, and we must do all we can to ensure that the humane treatment of animals is upheld everywhere.”
“An expert advisory taskforce could play an important role in exploring animal-free innovation. We should also review all animal procedures to remove duplicative and wasteful methods and to prevent the retesting on animals of any material, chemical, food or drug currently in use. Retesting should be conducted using only non-animal methods or existing human data. The Government have responded to the petition to ban any testing on dogs by saying that welfare standards are already high and that testing would still continue in other countries. Those are valid responses, yet I think that we can do better and provide even more leadership to other countries. That other countries continue to use dogs is not a good reason as to why we should do so in this country.”
“We know that animal testing can be unreliable and unpredictable and that it causes unnecessary suffering. Humans differ considerably from animals, so the use of animals often leads to poor results. The regulatory requirement that animals be used before human trials is more than 70 years old. Reviewing that, and removing the needless suffering of animals, will finally bring scientific research into the 21st century. Of course, there are also methods of digital testing, so we really have moved a long way since the law was last revised. A growing number of human-relevant methods are already being developed. Those are made up of innovative technologies that are helping to deliver better results for humans. Despite that, there is a continued misconception that animal testing provides a gold standard for the regulatory approval of a product.”
“It is therefore disappointing that the Government’s response to these petitions is that there will be no change in the law. Although we should all welcome the fact that we have improved our animal welfare laws over the years, we should not be complacent. At a time when new alternatives and non-animal methods are being developed, we should embrace this opportunity for leadership and to make regulations more stringent. I am sure we all want to minimise the use of animals in scientific experimentation and the cosmetic industry as much as possible, including by funding research into alternatives. We have already heard about Lush and its very successful reception at the end of last year. There are enough companies that are really promoting the use of alternative methods, so we should really listen to industry on this issue.”
“The UK was the first country to instigate animal protection laws, in 1822, and the first to set up an animal welfare charity, the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Public opinion is clear, and nearly 100 of my constituents have signed the petition to end the use of animals for toxicity tests and to prioritise non-animal methods, or NAMs. There is enough evidence now that non-animal methods can be more accurate, more cost-effective and quicker than traditional animal models. Although researchers are already required to use non-animal methods wherever possible, concerns have been raised that the process of checking whether NAMs have been used is not rigorous enough. Cruelty Free International has found cases of animal testing being used despite non-animal alternatives being available.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Dame Caroline. I congratulate the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) on leading the debate in such a detailed, passionate and knowledgeable way. My constituents, like all others, are passionate about animals, and many have contacted me to oppose their use in laboratory testing. It is upsetting for all those who love animals to learn that, in laboratories across the country, so many animals—including dogs, which we often describe as our best friends—are subjected to awful experiments under the guise of the public good. It is often said that the UK is a nation of animal lovers, and I think that that is absolutely true.”
“It was a pleasure to attend the Global Charge dinner last October, and to see so many members of the armed forces, from all ranks, committed to tackling the climate crisis. However, the Defence Committee has described the MOD’s current reduction targets as “insufficiently demanding” under the greening government commitments—they are the lowest across all Departments. Will the Minister ensure that the next round of CC commitments will contain more demanding targets, not least to reflect the real ambitions and for members of the armed forces on the ground to see the devastation of climate change?”
“This recession is a direct result of the choices that this Government have made. Years of potential growth have been missed, and the Government have failed particularly to capitalise on the green transition. Green investment will be worth £1 trillion globally by 2030, including half a million jobs in this country. When will the Government bring forward a green investment programme to match the ones in the US or in Europe?”
“We need to incentivise people from all incomes to participate in the green transition. However, electric vehicles are totally out of reach for most car owners, especially those on low incomes. In addition, people who rely on public charging points are still paying a lot more than those who can charge from home. Will the Government close this gap to ensure that everybody is getting a fair deal, including those on low incomes, to make sure that we get to net zero? Those on low incomes also want to help the country get to net zero.”
“May I also wish His Majesty the King a speedy recovery? He was brave to share his health news—he has shown his own vulnerability and humanity, and I am sure people across the nation will thank him for that. The household support fund provides grants to households struggling to make ends meet, but local authorities still do not know whether funding will continue past the end of March. More than 100 organisations have warned that there will be devastating consequences if the fund is not extended. Can we have a statement to clarify the future of the household support fund?”
“Will the Minister confirm that the special administration order could be imposed as a sanction for sustained sewage pollution? We Liberal Democrats support a public benefit company model for water companies, so that they must consider explicitly economic and environmental policy objectives in particular. Water companies should also put a share of their profits into social tariffs. I have kept my remarks short. I support the statutory instruments, but whether they really tackle the wider crisis in the water sector is questionable.”
“They have failed to address the root cause of the underfunding and under-resourcing of the regulators. There must be a clearer regulatory framework, duties and purposes for regulators, increased funding and greater direction on solutions to protect customers and the environment. New regulations should also guarantee that any special administrator will continue to discharge a company’s environmental obligations, including investment commitments under the water industry national environment programme, catchment plans and infrastructure upgrades. The proposals before us fail to talk sufficiently about the sewage crisis. There needs to be clarity on whether the Government will allow the special administrator to discharge environmental duties.”
“I hear what you say, Mr Vickers, but we are debating matters that touch on the wider issues in the water sector. The Liberal Democrats will also not oppose the statutory instrument, but I wish to express our wider concerns about the water sector and how it is regulated. Water company regulation should have three aims. First, we need to protect the water needs of future generations; secondly, we should ensure that the costs of investment in achieving environmental standards are shared fairly; and thirdly, we must ensure accountability and good customer service. Water companies need greater regulation to stop them getting into an administration or insolvency position in the first place. Government attempts to tackle consistent poor environmental performance from the water industry have not worked.”
“I would like to understand what the Government’s thinking is when they say that our system is too bureaucratic, but people from countries that have introduced something less bureaucratic are now excluded from coming into this country unless they produce more evidence. I would be very interested to hear the argument.”
“For almost 20 years, we have had a system that allows transgender people to have their gender recognised in law. The Conservative Government themselves concluded in 2018 that the current process is “too bureaucratic” and “intrusive”. What has changed since then? We are now in the odd position where the Government are declaring that countries that have chosen to allow forms of self-ID are “not vigorous enough”, even though the Conservative Government supported the reforms in 2018. We Liberal Democrats still believe that the current gender recognition process is too bureaucratic and intrusive. The Government must have changed their minds since 2018, but other countries have not, and nor have the Liberal Democrats.”
“In essence, those changes appear designed to make life for transgender people coming to the UK more difficult, especially if they come from countries that are most politically aligned with us. Surely, the Government have a good basis for doing that, and I would welcome an explanation as to what evidence the proposed changes are based on, apart from the fact that other countries have changed their rules. No single-sex spaces or protected spaces currently require the presentation of a gender recognition certificate. Instead, trained staff undertake a dynamic risk assessment as to whether it is appropriate to grant admission to someone. I would be interested to hear from the Government who they believe these changes benefit and whether any assessment has been made of their potential harm.”
“I am the last person who would want to put the rights or the safety of women at risk, but it is interesting that the women—on the Opposition Benches mostly—in whose name these policies are often designed are far less concerned about the way that this political debate has been held in the last few months or years. I believe that both sides need to be heard, and both groups are very vulnerable, so we need to make sure that we get the balance right. The proposal in this order is that people from countries that have moved towards forms of self-ID for transgender individuals will be made to produce medical documentation when applying for a gender recognition certificate in the UK.”
“Thank you, Mrs Murray, for calling me to speak. I apologise for not being aware of the rules for such a Committee; this is the first time I have served on one, and I was not aware that I had to say in advance that I was going to speak, so thank you for letting me say a few words. The vast majority of people across the UK agree that we need to make sure everyone’s rights and dignity are respected, and that includes legal recognition of their gender. From what I have just heard, it is difficult not to think that this measure is a political gesture.”
“Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Sarah Dyke) raised, which is that, for us, it is very important to have proper provision for SEND children. I would like to hear a response to that. The Government must provide comprehensive support, starting with raising the rates paid to providers.”
“The Government have decided to cut corners at the expense of children, rather than properly funding providers. Doing that will not bring down costs. Most nurseries, especially purpose-built nurseries, have been built to accommodate a ratio of 1:4. One nursery can still only take eight children and would need to have two members of staff. If the Government paid providers for the costs that they actually face, they would not need to consider compromising children’s safety in that way. We need a fast, decisive response to secure the future of the nursery sector. Early years settings and their staff are vital parts of our national infrastructure. Many parents dread their nursery being the next that is forced to close. I will mention a point that my hon.”
“Just one in five families who earn less than £20,000 will have access to the planned expansion of funded places for one and two-year-olds, compared with 80% of households whose incomes are over £45,000. Funding given to early years settings to support disadvantaged children in their cohort is a quarter of the amount given as pupil premium funding to primary schools. That has come at a time when more than a quarter of parents have had to use credit cards and to borrow money and get into debt to afford increasing childcare costs. Nobody should be pushed into poverty for deciding to start a family. Relaxing staff-to-child ratios is not the answer to any of those problems; nurseries have told me that many times. Many nurseries are worried about decreasing the child-to-staff ratio.”
“If we were funded properly we could pay our staff decent wages, and then they wouldn’t need to leave…and we wouldn’t have a recruitment crisis.” Nursery provision is an equalities issue. It is dispro-portionately mothers who are forced to choose between caring for their child and their careers. That is an issue I have raised time and again, particularly when I was the Liberal Democrat spokesperson on equalities. It is an equalities matter. In the end, it is mostly the mothers, who then do not go back to work and cannot get on with their careers. That is a very important point that we should not forget. It affects their career trajectory, their confidence and their long-term earning potential. At the same time, the achievement gap between the richer and poorer, which can best be tackled in early years, is rising.”
“That is in spite of their role supporting children’s early development and their close relationships with parents and carers. It is an incredibly important relationship. I say that from my own experience 30 years ago. The nursery that my children attended in Liverpool was absolutely wonderful and has set them up for life. I will say that again and again. In fact, I will name-check it here: Monkton nursery in Liverpool, which is still going and still under the same family. However, I know that even they are struggling with all the increasing costs. The work involves long hours and poor pay, and providers are struggling to find and recruit qualified candidates. To go back to my constituency, one provider in Bath said: “All these things are linked.”
“Current levels of funding do not cover the full range of costs faced by nurseries, which include rent and staff salaries, so nurseries are continuing to cross-finance the free childcare spaces that the Government provide. Even before the pandemic, the early years sector struggled to meet the gap between what the Government pay to cover free hours and their overheads. Fees have soared as a result, and nurseries struggle to continue to pay good wages. Another reason for closures, which is absolutely linked to that, is staff shortages. Another important point is to ensure that people looking at careers see early education as a proper career that is properly paid throughout their professional life. Nursery staff are paid professionals, but are often not treated as others in the education sector are.”