Jamie Stone
MP for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“While I am very fond of the hon. Member for Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey (Graham Leadbitter), the House will not be surprised to hear that I do not hang on his every word.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. I congratulate the hon. Member for Lichfield (Dave Robertson), my good friend and colleague on the Petitions Committee, on his excellent introduction to this debate.”
“It is not really pertinent to the Minister, but those fledgling and now grown-up companies would not have come into being had it not been for a key decision taken by Harold Wilson’s Labour Government in the 1960s, which was to put in place the Highlands and Islands Development Board.”
“My point is that these companies actually teach vital local skills that would not otherwise be taught, create jobs in some of the remotest areas of the United Kingdom and provide a tourist product, which is absolutely crucial when it comes to visitors. When people, including right hon. and hon.”
“Just to be absolutely tidy, could I make a plea on behalf of those families where the member is deceased but the estate still has a claim? There is sometimes, possibly wrongly, an impression that these people are put to the back of the queue. Could I have an assurance that that would not be the case?”
“I want to raise the case of Hughie Stirling from Ullapool. He was on board a flotilla proceeding to Gaza with aid when the Israelis intercepted them in international waters and took them into custody. His partner tells me that he and others were shockingly mistreated—we are talking about physical abuse and even being beaten up.”
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“While I am very fond of the hon. Member for Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey (Graham Leadbitter), the House will not be surprised to hear that I do not hang on his every word. My constituents are cock-a-hoop and absolutely delighted that Dounreay, in my constituency, has been identified as suitable for a new nuclear power station development, possibly an SMR. What can I do to help the Government make that become a reality?”
“Although that is not the responsibility of the Minister or indeed the UK Government, I give due notice that this is a matter I shall continue to raise in future. Thank you very much, Dr Murrison, for your forbearance.”
“It is not really pertinent to the Minister, but those fledgling and now grown-up companies would not have come into being had it not been for a key decision taken by Harold Wilson’s Labour Government in the 1960s, which was to put in place the Highlands and Islands Development Board. This was to encourage enterprise in some of the remotest parts of the UK and to halt and reverse the depopulation that was the curse of some of the remotest parts of Scotland. It was a great success story, and I give credit where it is due. However, that success story is not what it once was. This is a political point, but under the stewardship of the present Scottish Government the Highlands and Islands Development Board, now Highlands and Islands Enterprise, is a shadow of what its parent once upon a time was, which is a great pity.”
“My point is that these companies actually teach vital local skills that would not otherwise be taught, create jobs in some of the remotest areas of the United Kingdom and provide a tourist product, which is absolutely crucial when it comes to visitors. When people, including right hon. and hon. Members, come to my part of the world in the north of Scotland, they should come and see ANTA’s fine ceramics in the village of Fearn. They should come and see Highland Stoneware in Lochinver. They will not be disappointed. We would not dare to compete with Stoke-on-Trent in terms of quality, but we are very proud of what we do. I am going to keep my contribution very short, but I want to make one point.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. I congratulate the hon. Member for Lichfield (Dave Robertson), my good friend and colleague on the Petitions Committee, on his excellent introduction to this debate. He talks about the wares of Armitage Shanks; I would venture to suggest that Armitage Shanks products are seen in some of the great houses the length and breadth of the United Kingdom. One may wonder what a Member from the north of Scotland doing on his feet on this debate. There are two ceramic companies in my constituency: ANTA in Fearn, owned by Lachie and Annie Stewart, whose products can be seen in Dumfries House—a place not unfamiliar to His Majesty the King—and Highland Stoneware in Lochinver, which is owned by Mr David Grant, whose wares can be seen in Balmoral. We are very proud of that.”
“Just to be absolutely tidy, could I make a plea on behalf of those families where the member is deceased but the estate still has a claim? There is sometimes, possibly wrongly, an impression that these people are put to the back of the queue. Could I have an assurance that that would not be the case?”
“I want to raise the case of Hughie Stirling from Ullapool. He was on board a flotilla proceeding to Gaza with aid when the Israelis intercepted them in international waters and took them into custody. His partner tells me that he and others were shockingly mistreated—we are talking about physical abuse and even being beaten up. When his partner made appeals to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office for information or assistance, the silence was utterly deafening. Hughie is a British citizen and has his rights, surely. Could we have a debate in this House on consular support and protection of UK nationals delivering aid abroad?”
“I put that on the record and I make no apologies—except for a partial apology to my neighbour across the Minch, the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar, because he may be getting a little bored of me. That is why I strongly support this statutory instrument.”
“I apologise to my neighbour across the Minch, the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar, because this is something I have already said at an all-party parliamentary group today. It is a terrible thing, in line with what was said by the hon. Member for Fylde, that we have a licensed site at Dounreay in my constituency with a highly skilled workforce and a local population that would welcome the next generation of small modular reactors—Rolls-Royce has told me that it would go there like a shot—but we have a Scottish Government that stands absolutely in its way. That is despite the fact that the most recent opinion polls demonstrate that a majority of the Scottish public support nuclear and accept it as part of our energy mix for the future.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. My party supports this statutory instrument updating our nuclear safeguards regime. Removing outdated Euratom transitional provisions and aligning our reporting framework with the International Atomic Energy Agency is diligent housekeeping that a serious nuclear nation must undertake and I believe that we are a serious nuclear nation. We have real nuclear ambitions. Sites at Hinkley, Sizewell, and, dare I pronounce it, Wylfa—my apologies to all Welsh present—demonstrate that the next generation of clean, reliable, low-carbon energy can be generated for many decades to come. It is a hugely important part of how we are going to do things in the future and a robust safeguards regime is the foundation on which that future must be built.”
“When it comes to representing Scotland’s interests abroad, football is right up there. My constituent, Mr Kenny Smith, has shelled out well over £10,000 on booking his tickets to go to the States. He had visa clearance—he actually had UK security clearance, which is pretty high powered—yet last Wednesday, his visa was revoked. This poor chap is in a very bad situation, so can I appeal to the Secretary of State to give Mr Smith and me any assistance that he can provide to sort this out?”
“Nuclear is going to play a role in cheaper energy for households, and I welcome the Government’s announcement there will be an array of small modular reactors that will have to be made out of British steel. Equally, I regret the fact that offshore wind turbines are being built not in this country; they should be built here, out of British steel. When I worked in the oil fabrication industry, we had thousands of trained welders. Today, we do not have so many people who could actually work with British steel. Does the hon. Member agree that, in parallel with doing the good work in the Bill, we should be thinking about keeping these skills, which are crucial to the future? If we do not have them, we will not use British steel.”
“The hon. Member speaks with passion and cares about her constituents. It seems that what she is saying is in parallel with my earlier intervention about the risk of losing the skills of working with steel—welding and suchlike. Does she share my disappointment, but perhaps not surprise, that there is no member of the Scottish National party with us today? We know that the Scottish Government set their face against all new nuclear in Scotland, but we would welcome an SMR at Dounreay in Caithness. The hon. Member might agree that the Scottish Government are not helpful on defence either. She talks about leadership and shouldering the responsibility, but we have a gap—”
“I assure the Chamber that I shall not mention power of any particular sort. Will the Minister, if he has not done so, think about having a word with the Scottish Government and how they might help him in his endeavours?”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered e-petition 730605 relating to collection and publication of child sexual offender data. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Siobhain.”
“Before I go any further, I want to acknowledge the profound sensitivity of this subject. Alas, child sexual abuse is far more common than many people may think. Far more children are sexually abused than are ever identified or responded to. At least 500,000—half a million—children in England and Wales are estimated to experience child sexual abuse every year. Crucially, I want to instil in every Member intending to participate in this debate that, behind every statistic, every case file and every policy discussion, there are real people whose lives have been deeply impacted by these offences.”
“Prior to this debate, he explained to me that he tabled the petition out of concern that existing non-statutory approaches to data collection and transparency regarding child sexual exploitation have been insufficient. He wants to see a clear legal duty imposed on the relevant authorities to consistently record and publish offender data regarding the nationality, ethnicity, immigration status and religion of child sexual offenders. Furthermore, the hon. Member explained to me that he found the Government’s response to the petition insufficient, on the basis that it relies on expectations and directives rather than statutory duties. He believes that this data should not only be collected but be published and standardised to achieve full transparency and accountability.”
“My hon. Friend makes his case with some passion. I take note of it, and I thank him. As Chair of the Petitions Committee, it is always encouraging to see public participation in politics, so I welcome our friends to the Public Gallery. With more than 200,000 signatures, it is quite evident that this petition has engaged a very large number of people across the country. At this point, I remind people that the person leading a debate on behalf of the Petitions Committee sets the scene, as it were, so I will refer to the petitioner and to other points of the argument. The petition was created by the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Rupert Lowe).”
“Unfortunately, no institution can undo past failures, but we have a responsibility to learn from them and to strengthen the systems we rely upon to improve the identification of abuse, our response to it and the experience of survivors.”
“Thank you, Dame Siobhain. The hon. Member underlined the point I am trying to make. Of the people watching this debate, many will alas be survivors of child sexual abuse who did not report that abuse until adulthood. That is the terrible thing. Their safety, dignity and wellbeing must remain at the centre of the debate and all that we say today. I also want to recognise that there will be people watching this debate who have felt failed by institutions and public authorities in the past. That is precisely why we should use any parliamentary time on this topic—specifically with regard to information sharing—as a way of better equipping safeguarding agencies, local authorities, our criminal justice system and Parliament to improve the protection of children.”
“Thank you, Dame Siobhain. I will come to my hon. Friend’s point very shortly. This petition provokes legitimate questions that the public want answered, regarding how data on these offences is collected and how patterns of offending are identified. When discussing this practice, it is important that we balance transparency with privacy, proportionality and the risk that data may be misused or presented in a misleading way. For that reason, our discussion today must approach the petition with reasoned, constructive and evidence-based recommendations. We should all be guided by what best protects children, supports survivors and strengthens public trust in safeguarding institutions when dealing with offenders.”
“It tells us where the system has already failed, but it does not help us to identify where abuse is occurring right now, unseen. In this way, it is crucial to consider that better safeguarding outcomes should, first and foremost, be driven by the identification and prevention of abuse in the first instance. Alas, the reality is that a significant proportion of child sexual abuse never reaches the criminal justice system at all. These children are not reflected in datasets or analytical frameworks based solely on convicted offenders. It is therefore worth remembering that, although offender data has its place within a broader safeguarding landscape, it is not adequate as the central focus for protecting victims and preventing further abuse.”
“I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. Today, we have with us people in the Public Gallery who have been through this dreadful experience. Sadly, it leaves scars that can last a lifetime. By referring to “offenders”, this petition is focused on a person who has admitted guilt to a child sexual abuse offence or who has been found guilty of such an offence in a court of law. Prior to this debate, I spoke to people at the Centre of Expertise on Child Sexual Abuse, who pointed out that although there is understandable interest in strengthening the collection and scrutiny of data relating to offenders, such an approach taken in isolation will have but limited impact on the scale of harm they are seeking to confront in order to protect children. Data on known offenders is, by its very nature, retrospective—it looks back.”
“Indeed. The hon. Member has some knowledge, as I do, of the situation north of the border. The point is well made—I shall come to it shortly—that this crime is no respecter of where in the United Kingdom someone lives. Only by prioritising the identification of unreported abuse can we begin to address the true scale of the problem, rather than merely documenting its aftermath, retrospectively. The petition makes particular reference to “gang based crime”. Many hon. Members will be aware of previous inquiries into this particular offence and its severity, which should not be undermined. However, we must remember that children can be sexually abused in many different ways by different people and in different places and situations. I think that is precisely the point to which my Scottish colleague, the hon.”
“I suggest that overemphasising outside narratives risks distorting public understanding and could distract from the full range of contexts in which abuse occurs.”
“Wise words indeed. To turn to the point that my hon. Friend the Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden) touched on earlier, in England and Wales alone almost half of all child sexual abuse offences reported to the police in 2021 and 2022 took place in the family environment. That means the abuse was by parents, siblings, grandparents or anyone considered one of the family. After sexual abuse by a parent, harmful sexual behaviour by siblings is the second most common form of sexual abuse within the family environment that is reported to police. My point is that we must be cautious about framing child sexual abuse as primarily an external or culturally othered threat, when the evidence shows that it is most often perpetrated within existing relationships of trust and care.”
“I believe that we must distinguish carefully between evidence-based policy and generalisation, between transparency and sensationalism, and between the legitimate scrutiny of institutional failings and the prejudiced stigmatisation of whole groups of people. In short, we have to treat this subject with great care.”
“Children cannot look after themselves in this regard, so it behoves every single adult to sort this out. How do we do that? By having a conversation, by discussing the issue and by operating on an absolutely cross-party basis. In that way, we can improve responses, and prevent further abuse and exploitation.”
“I have accepted a rather large number of interventions, and I know that a lot of Members want to speak in this debate. I will therefore close by making this last point. In my view, it would be a great tragedy if this issue became a party political football. It should not because, as was said earlier, sexual abuse is no observer of rank in society or geographical location. It can affect everyone, from those in the remotest parts of the UK to those in the most suburbanised places.”
“Resolved , That this House has considered e-petition 730605 relating to collection and publication of child sexual offender data.”
“The hour grows late. The people in the Public Gallery, who I must not mention, have sat patiently and listened. We know how many people signed the petition. That is an indication of how important it is out there. We have hon. Members from all over the UK in this debate—from Wales, my colleagues from Scotland, from all parts of England, and from Northern Ireland—because this issue matters in the body politic. We should all remind ourselves that petition debates have some of the highest viewing figures of anything that happens in this place—they are up there with Prime Minister’s questions—so an awful lot of people out there will be watching this debate. The key is that we have had a full and proper discussion: we have aired the issue, but it all depends on what happens next. I rest my case with that. Question put and agreed to .”
“I know that this is an issue that the hon. Member cares about passionately. I am sure that like me, he has had issues with people, particularly elderly people, who fear that they have been scammed. It is all very well saying, “Get online and we’ll see if we can sort this out,” but there is nothing like a face-to-face meeting and somebody from the Bank of Scotland, the Clydesdale or the Royal Bank of Scotland saying, “No, you’re okay,” or, “This is what we’ll do.” With all due respect, that reassurance is not there online. That is why I believe that face-to-face advice is hugely important.”
“The whole Petitions Committee, including me, is grateful to the hon. Lady, who is making a very good speech. Although we all care about this matter hugely, I have found from the emails I have received that the younger generation is increasingly unwilling to tolerate this testing at all. I welcome that and find it fascinating, and I see it as a very good shift in society. Does she agree?”
“It is great to hear a qualified doctor talking about this matter. Health is devolved in Scotland—I must put that on the record—but in my constituency one finds that an awful lot of social care workers are calling it a day and walking away, with all sorts of unfortunate ramifications such as delayed discharge. Crucially, the support for doctors that the hon. Gentleman is talking about is not there or has been reduced. Does he agree that, if we boosted social care workers’ pay and conditions and retained them, that would help doctors?”
“There are two points that could reinforce the right hon. Member’s argument. First, I served in the Territorial Army, and it taught me to read a map; the reserves can teach people skills that will be useful in their lives. Secondly, many peoples’ lives are disorganised, but being in the reserves, the Territorial Army or part of the forces could give a structure to their lives. That will help out with the Government’s social policies, a point that should be emphasised to the Treasury. It is not just about people in uniforms; it is about the wider good of the nation.”
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way a second time; he is being more than generous. I should declare an interest: my son-in-law is a serving officer in the Royal Air Force and my daughter was, until recently, the same. One of the things that hits morale in all three services is being below strength—when they do not have the numbers and the platoon is short by two or three people. There is a long tradition—this was true in my time too—of reservists having an attachment to what we might call a frontline battalion or a frontline unit. That was actually great fun, and it really added something to the reservists’ lives. It was looked forward to. I hope that might happen now and again.”
“I have gone on and on about this in this place—as I am sure you know, Sir Alec—and yet it is a devolved matter, so we are completely powerless to do anything. I hope that all the sentiments expressed today about a commissioner come to be reality, I hope that the Scottish Government are told to look at it very closely indeed, and I hope that they are shamed—it is as simple as that—into doing something and sorting out a truly shocking situation, and one that is extremely dangerous. It is a miracle that neither a child’s life nor a mother’s life has been lost yet. I am sorry if I do not mince my words, but I feel very strongly about it indeed.”
“It is expensive. We had a superb local service, and we do not have it any longer. Fundamentally, I find that simply dreadful. Eventually, at the tail end of last year, there was a motion in the Scottish Parliament to hold an independent inquiry into maternity services in the north of Scotland. It passed, and the local population said, “Hallelujah! At long last, it’s going to be addressed.” But then what happened? In their infinite wisdom, the Scottish Government said, “Actually, despite the fact that there was a majority decision by the Scottish Parliament, we’re not going to do an independent inquiry; we’ll have a little in-house look at what’s happening here.” That is where we are today. Can Members imagine what message that sends to mums and families in the north of Scotland?”
“Back in 2018, a mother of twins was on her way down in an ambulance and gave birth to the first baby in Golspie, about 50 miles through a 100-mile journey. A second ambulance had to be called and she was driven on to Inverness to give birth to the second child. I ask Members to imagine how traumatic and awful that was for the mother. Both children and the mother survived—thank God. I well remember somebody called Nicola Sturgeon saying at the time, “This is very serious; we will look into it,” but nothing happened. Today, the statistics speak for themselves: in the most recent period we have looked at, six babies were born in Caithness general hospital in Wick and 166 were born in Raigmore hospital in Inverness. Think about all those return journeys. Think about a mum coming to see her daughter and the little baby. Where do they stay?”
“Travelling from Caithness to Inverness on a sunny day is one thing; travelling in winter is a very different proposition. The A9 gets blocked during many winters and people cannot get through. What happens if a pregnant mother in an ambulance on her way to give birth in Inverness cannot get through? They get hold of the emergency helicopter. But what if there is a road traffic accident in another part of the highlands—say in Lochaber, Skye or Morayshire—and the choppers have gone in different directions? I have posed that question to the Scottish Government again and again and said, “You could have a tragedy on your hands.” I have asked for a safety audit again and again, but there has been no safety audit whatever. What about winter? What about when the chopper does not—cannot—fly? What about when the ambulance cannot get through?”
“It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alec. I want to share a cautionary tale with everyone, and I will just set out the geography. I have the biggest constituency in the UK; it stretches from John O’Groats, way down to just north of Inverness—I invite Members to think about that huge area of Scotland. What I am about to say in no way reflects on the midwives in Caithness and other parts of my constituency. Some years ago the Scottish Government, in their infinite wisdom, decided to downgrade a consultant-led maternity service based in Wick, which is at the top of the UK, near John O’Groats, to a midwife-led service. That meant that mothers would have to travel more than 100 miles—in each direction—to Inverness to give birth.”
“Are we quite certain that we are basing the surface ships that we have—we hope we will have more—in the position where they need to be to keep a close eye on the High North and protect our vital strategic interests?”
“I am delighted that the Minister has made this statement, because I have raised this issue a number of times in this place. My constituency looks directly at the High North, and it is off the coast of my constituency that this Russian activity took place—let us make no mistake about it. My constituents find it deeply worrying. As the Minister himself has admitted, we have only so many surface ships. They are based mostly in Devonport and Portsmouth. The sailing time from the south of England to Orkney, Shetland or my constituency is a matter of days, and we have to move very fast in this situation with Russia. Let us remember history: before the first world war, Winston Churchill and others took the decision to relocate part of the fleet to Invergordon and to Scapa Flow in the Orkneys.”
“The Treasury Bench would be particularly disappointed if I did not once again showcase what we have at Dounreay: a licensed site, a skilled workforce and a population who would greatly support playing a role in the development of fusion for the future. May I suggest that the Scottish Enterprise network might put its hand in its pocket to bring that forward, if that is helpful to His Majesty’s Government?”
“One thing that we need to get right, and which we got wrong in the past, is this. When I was first elected in 2017, there were not Russian spy ships off the coast of my constituency, but now there are, and we detected a submarine before Christmas. I raised this issue with the Leader of the House last week and have been granted a ministerial meeting. Does the Minister agree that there is a Russian threat on our doorstep to vital strategic resources, including pipelines, interconnectors, our offshore wind, and our oil and gas? Look at what happened in the Baltic.”
“The hon. Member is making a powerful speech. Whatever side one takes in the argument that he presents to us, does he agree that in the hopefully unlikely event of Scottish independence being achieved, two things would happen? First, Scotland, on forming its own navy, would have the greatest difficulty defending the strategic assets to which I referred in an earlier intervention; and secondly, an independent Scottish Government would have the most hideous choices to make, exactly along the lines that the hon. Gentleman is presenting, between armaments, and badly needed hospitals and other social investments.”
“Historically, they have been prescribed to children who enter puberty unusually early and, in some cases, for the treatment of cancers or endometriosis. Importantly, they are distinct from gender affirmation or cross-sex hormones. Blockers temporarily pause development, while cross-sex hormones actively induce the physical changes of the opposite sex and are generally irreversible. The petition raises two main areas of concern: the possible long-term medical side effects of puberty blockers, and whether meaningful consent can ever be obtained from a child or adolescent.”
“They believe that medical intervention in this area is dangerous, poorly evidenced and ethically questionable. They have asked Parliament to ensure that children are protected from potential harm. I want to make it crystal clear that this debate is not about trans rights or whether people who identify as transgender have the right to exist and live free from discrimination. This discussion focuses on a clinical and ethical issue: whether puberty blockers should be prescribed to children experiencing gender dysphoria, and specifically whether a new NHS-backed clinical trial into their use should proceed. Puberty blockers are medicines that suppress the production of sex hormones. They press pause on puberty, delaying changes like periods, breast development, voice changes and facial hair growth.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered e-petition 751839 relating to the clinical trial into puberty blockers. It is always a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell. I sincerely thank everyone I met in preparation for this debate: the legal and medical professionals who shared their expertise and the individuals with deeply personal, lived experience on both sides of this discussion. It goes without saying that this is a complex topic. I am grateful for the time and care that people have taken to help inform this debate. I also thank the petition’s creator, James Esses, and petition supporter and campaigner Keira Bell. I had the pleasure of meeting them ahead of this debate, and they are watching today. Their petition asks that the clinical trial for the use of puberty blockers be cancelled.”
“Others question the trial’s purpose, noting that puberty blockers have already been paused for new NHS patients with gender incongruence, following concerns about safety. They fear that authorising a new trial implies a level of confidence that the evidence base does not yet justify, arguing that enough data exists to recognise the potential harms, from reduced bone density to uncertain impact on brain development. Continuing could erode the safeguards that protect young people.”