Jamie Stone
MP for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“While I am very fond of the hon. Member for Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey (Graham Leadbitter), the House will not be surprised to hear that I do not hang on his every word.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. I congratulate the hon. Member for Lichfield (Dave Robertson), my good friend and colleague on the Petitions Committee, on his excellent introduction to this debate.”
“It is not really pertinent to the Minister, but those fledgling and now grown-up companies would not have come into being had it not been for a key decision taken by Harold Wilson’s Labour Government in the 1960s, which was to put in place the Highlands and Islands Development Board.”
“My point is that these companies actually teach vital local skills that would not otherwise be taught, create jobs in some of the remotest areas of the United Kingdom and provide a tourist product, which is absolutely crucial when it comes to visitors. When people, including right hon. and hon.”
“Just to be absolutely tidy, could I make a plea on behalf of those families where the member is deceased but the estate still has a claim? There is sometimes, possibly wrongly, an impression that these people are put to the back of the queue. Could I have an assurance that that would not be the case?”
“I want to raise the case of Hughie Stirling from Ullapool. He was on board a flotilla proceeding to Gaza with aid when the Israelis intercepted them in international waters and took them into custody. His partner tells me that he and others were shockingly mistreated—we are talking about physical abuse and even being beaten up.”
The complete record
Every one of 600 lines we hold for Jamie Stone, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 7 of 12.
“Briefly, I want to say three thank yous. The first is to Susie Babington, who researched my contribution this morning; I am very grateful. We rely on our excellent members of staff. I thank all Members for their excellent contributions; I am very grateful indeed. The concept of having a pint of beer while having my blood pressure checked is an interesting and novel one. Finally, I thank the Minister for what he said about the Wick hub. It is desperately important to me and means a great deal to my constituents. We Scots are reckoned to be a wee bit tight with our money, but if His Majesty’s Government choose to send the Chancellor or the Secretary of State for Scotland up to open the Wick hub, I might even dip into my pocket and buy a large glass of Old Pulteney in Wick’s excellent Mackays hotel. Question put and agreed to.”
“Every winter, Altnaharra in my constituency is the coldest place in the UK. I can think of lots of pensioners who are faced with the invidious decision of whether to switch off and shiver or to run into debt. It occurs to me that the Department for Work and Pensions may well have a database of these people, so will His Majesty’s Government get the DWP to work with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero to identify them and give a helping hand?”
“I am very interested in what my hon. Friend is saying about the threat to jobs. At the other end of the country, the north of Scotland, we have the same issue. The loss of any jobs in the hospitality industry is disastrous, when we do not have much employment anyway. We would like much more—let us put it that way.”
“I simply ask that, as and when the best practice is developed to tackle this problem, His Majesty’s Government share that best practice with the Scottish Government, so that we can see how we can nip this problem and try to reverse this wretched tendency. I hope that now, as I speak, that teacher has got a house in Ullapool, but I am not sure that she has.”
“Despite the best intentions of the previous Government and this Government, not having the housing really gets in the way of all of that. I find it very difficult to see young people put in this position; it is really quite harrowing and it seems a fundamental injustice. It is wrong that they have to face these terrible decisions—“Do I stay where I come from? But I can’t, so I have to go.” I remember my own father, before the North Sea oil came, saying to me, “You’ll have to go south, young man.” That is something we do not want to see happen. I am talking about a devolved matter, Ms Jardine, but may I simply say this? I have great faith in the best intentions of Governments of all colours.”
“We may talk about going private—renting or buying—but as I have already hinted, they are just priced out of the market. We have to balance that against something that I am grateful to the previous Government for. We were given the Inverness and Cromarty Firth green freeport—one of two in Scotland—which was a real shot in the arm for the area, as it will be under the new Government. It could make as big a contribution as Dounreay did when nuclear power came to Caithness, or as the Nigg and Kishorn oil fabrication yards did when they came to Ross and Cromarty. These things really offer employment and can keep people in an area, but the point is very simple: if we do not have the housing, what are we going to do?”
“That is people who have gone, and gone forever, and that is the tragedy of the highlands. So people leaving because they cannot get accommodation in Achiltibuie is a desperate business altogether. I want to say on the record that I in no way blame the Highland council for this problem. As a local authority, it does its level best against the odds to think of imaginative ways to create housing. But if a wee house comes on the market in Wester Ross, or in most of my constituency, it is snapped up by people from far away who can afford the prices, which local people simply cannot. Let me turn to what happens in my constituency office. In the highlands, there are about 8,000 people on the waiting list for housing, and every week my office will get two, three, four or five housing cases, which are incredibly hard to resolve.”
“That struck me mightily. After the election, I was staying with my wife in the Summer Isles hotel in Achiltibuie, which is getting pretty remote. I was talking to the young barman, and because we knew that the hotel was going to be closed over winter, I said, “So, what will you do during the wintertime?” He said—you know what is coming, Ms Jardine—“I have to head south. There’s nowhere for me to stay here. I can’t afford the accommodation.” The hon. Member for Hexham (Joe Morris) rightly mentioned depopulation; it has been the utter curse of the highlands for generations. It is one of the great tragedies that if someone drives across Caithness on the Causewaymire—the local pronunciation is “Cazziemire”—they will see umpteen empty wee houses on either side in the heather.”
“On a personal level, it is a particular pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Jardine. We go back a long way, do we not? I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) on securing this debate. My difficulty is that housing is devolved, but—as you will understand, Ms Jardine—when constituents come to me, as a Scottish Member, with issues, I am duty bound to raise them. I will start with two brief anecdotes. I was canvassing in Ullapool, in Wester Ross, before the election and I was astounded when I was told by a householder that the local headteacher had to commute from well to the east of my vast constituency—every day, there and back—because no housing was available in Ullapool. It seemed absolutely ludicrous because, if anyone should be part of the local community, it is the headteacher.”
“Further to that answer, I see from recent press coverage that the SNP Government are once again banging on about another independence referendum, despite the Supreme Court’s ruling. Will the Government make it crystal clear to devolved Governments that they do not have the power to arbitrarily instigate independence referendums?”
“I find the notion of people buying and selling land purely for fiscal purposes abhorrent. I come from a farming family. My father was broke. He had to sell most of the land. There is not a day that goes by in which I do not look at the fields and regret that my family parted with it. The point I am making is that there is an emotional attachment between the farming family and the land. That is quite different from buying or selling a house, shares or a holiday home in Spain—it is quite different.”
“I sincerely hope that I am wrong in what I am about to suggest, but if the value of land were to drop as a result of these measures, and a farm had borrowed heavily and owed the bank a lot, it could be the case that the bank would foreclose and force the sale of the farm.”
“The hon. Member will be aware that my wife’s family come from Northern Ireland. My understanding is that the price of land there is quite a lot higher per acre than in Scotland or England. Does that not mean that what we are talking about today has a disproportionate effect on the Province of Northern Ireland?”
“I observe no Paddington stare. The point is well made about young people starting off and growing into the creative industries. The pantomimes and local amateur dramatics that I get involved in are the seedcorn of these things by getting kids on stage, but does the Minister agree that if the local newspapers go down—and so many of them are in danger right across the UK—those things will not get the publicity and support that helps to grow the industry?”
“I, too, want to refer to the land of Calvin, oatcakes, and sulphur—Scotland. In a village in my constituency where I used to live, there is a lovely old Church of Scotland church that has been bought by a former Member of this place. It is in bad condition and it is upsetting local people. Can best practice be shared north of the border with planning authorities and heritage organisations? I would be most grateful.”
“The words “liberal bourgeoisie” made me think. I represent the mainland constituency that is furthest away from Westminster, and I will just point out that this issue affects women from all over the UK, be they “liberal bourgeoisie” or not. In my constituency—that far away—370 people have signed the petition. This issue is huge all over the UK.”
“Agriculture is really important to the economy of Northern Ireland. In Scotland, we breed excellent bulls, but it is very hard to sell them and get them into Northern Ireland because of the regulations and red tape, and vice versa for Irish bulls coming to Scotland. Will the Secretary of State see if we can make it easier for farmers on both sides?”
“Further to the point made by the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister), if there is an accident at a cliff and somebody falls, we want to get help to them as quickly as possible, while the chopper is making its way there. I know of instances when the rope gear has been removed altogether; there might be a lifesaving opportunity to get somebody down to that person before the chopper gets there. It seems to me that this attitude of measuring it by money, instead of an overall approach about preventing a death, is really what we should be thinking about.”
“I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) will remember an incident in 1999 when a chemical-laden vessel called the Ascania broke free in the Pentland Firth. It was loaded with over 1,000 tonnes of potentially explosive chemicals. The search and rescue helicopters were absolutely instrumental in getting the crew of 14 off the Ascania. Luckily, the situation did not prove disastrous; it could have been. Without those helicopters, there could have been a considerable loss of life.”
“Right now, we have one flight in and out of Wick airport, run by Eastern Airways—which is better than none, I admit, but we had to fight to get the public service obligation for that. If we are to ensure the economic regeneration of the far north of Caithness, as Dounreay, which was the dynamo of the economy of the farms, runs down and is decommissioned, we will have to encourage other industries to come in. I am sure the Government will do laudable work on that front, but if we do not have the flights in and out of Wick airport, it will not help very much. Although the Aberdeen flight to Wick is welcome, we need flights to Edinburgh and Bristol and to wherever we can get them. That will make all the difference, so I conclude with a simple plea: please can we get more flights in and out of Wick airport? We need them desperately.”
“Congratulations on your appointment, Mrs Lewell-Buck. I am sure you will do the job with elegance for many years to come. It has already been said, has it not? My right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) made the point that some of us have to use roads to get to airports to fly here. He mentioned the disgrace of the A9. I was in Holyrood when Alex Salmond promised the dualling of the A9, and when he promised the dualling of the A96. The response to that one is hollow laughter—there are still traffic lights at the railway bridge at Oyne. These people are simply not competent to run the transport of Scotland. But here is the point: just like my right hon. Friend the Member for Orkney and Shetland does, we need flights to make up for the lack of proper transport on the ground.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz—and I mean that most genuinely. One of the things Members should never do in this place is bore the House, but I am afraid that I am about to do so, because I am going to sound like a cracked record. How many times have I mentioned the ongoing scandal of pregnant mothers having to travel a 200-mile round trip from Caithness to Inverness to give birth? In weather like the stuff we are having right now in the north of Scotland, you have to be joking. The A9 was blocked at Helmsdale a view days ago, and thank God no pregnant mum tried to make the journey down to Inverness. I have gone on again and again to the Scottish Government about having a safety audit done on this perilous policy. We had a consultant-led maternity service based in Wick in Caithness.”
“That, I think, is the Scottish people telling us something, and anyone who does not listen to that is simply whistling in the hurricane.”
“We had an issue where a mother was pregnant with twins, but one twin was born in Golspie and the other had to be born in Inverness. Imagine how awful that is for a family—it is a shocker. I close with this: the two issues I have outlined are issues that really, really matter to ordinary people. We can talk about this or that in politics, but these are the big, chunky issues on the doorsteps. People are not stupid out there. I hear my good friends in the SNP sitting to my left, and they are good personal friends, but something happened in July, when the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton) was returned with the bump that he was and when my majority went up from 204 to just 11 votes shy of 10,500.”
“This morning I rang a mother from Caithness, Kirsteen Campbell, who thinks it will be two or three years before her child can be seen by a professional to sort out their problem. During the election, I spoke to a mother in Evanton in Easter Ross, who told me how her child—who I will not name for obvious reasons—had not been to school for a number of years because the school could not deal with the issues that this poor, wretched child had. It is a scandal. In the short time available, I have given just two examples of failures. Turning to the subject of debate, I sincerely hope and pray that the Scottish Government will use this extra money to address these issues finally, before it is too late and something terrible happens on the youth mental health front or a mother or child loses their life.”
“It is a nonsense. Constituents like the hon. Gentleman’s and mine are losing out and have lost out for years. We had a consultant-led maternity service in Caithness until, hey presto, this SNP Government took over; very shortly after, it was downgraded and got rid of—as simple as that. I and others have written to John Swinney inviting him to come north to Wick to get in the back of an ambulance in winter and make the journey for himself to see what it is like. I do not believe we have had an answer, and I expect a dusty one when it comes. It is a scandal and a disgrace, and it is on the watch of the SNP Government. Right now, we have one psychiatrist in the north of Scotland—just one—and we have a huge problem with the mental health of young people.”
“Does the hon. Gentleman, who is making an excellent contribution, agree that the reason why the SNP Government did not welcome the announcement was that the Labour Government successfully shot the fox?”
“In the case of the current Government, he believes that there is as yet no sign of Labour’s pledge to kick-start the economy, even after six months in office.”
“Michael Westwood “would like there to be another General Election” on account of his belief that “the current Labour Government have gone back on the promises” they made during the lead-up to the last election, which was held, as we all know, in July 2024. When Michael Westwood and I spoke, Michael explained that his reason for creating this petition came from his personal frustration at the lack of transparency and accountability in our election process. He feels that the system does not ensure that the Government of the day are made answerable for unfulfilled manifesto promises and poor governance. Put simply, Mr Westwood believes that it is too easy for political parties—all of us—to mislead the public in order to gain their vote.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered e-petition 700143 relating to a general election. It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. As Chair of the Petitions Committee, I believe I speak for all its members and, I bet, a whole heap of politicians in this Parliament when I say that it is always encouraging to witness public participation in politics. With more than 3 million—3.1 million—signatures, it is evident that this petition has engaged a truly vast number of people all across the country. For that reason, I personally and most sincerely thank its creator, Mr Michael Westwood, who is with us with his wife, Tanya, and whom I had the pleasure of meeting during the run-up to this debate before Christmas, when we had a long chat. Mr Westwood created this e-petition with a clear and very simple call.”
“All that said, the petitions system was created to bring to Parliament’s attention issues of policy on which there is strong public feeling. It was not ever intended as a mechanism to circumvent parliamentary democracy or change the terms by which it is conducted. Creating a petition is a means of advocacy and participation. A petition is not an autonomous decision-making tool that can act as a substitute for a representative democracy. We need to remember those important principles.”
“I say to colleagues that whether we agree or disagree with Mr Westwood’s petition, we should not lose sight of the fact that a petition that garners this much support is surely the sign of a healthy democracy. The fact that we are here today, in this place, debating this matter is surely evidence that we live in a democracy in which our electorate can express discontent, demand our attention and know that we will listen to them and take their concerns seriously. Ultimately, we work for all those who put their name to this petition, and I believe that the Government should welcome their input as a sign that our representative democracy in the UK is alive and well, which is a lot more than can be said for far too many other parts of the world where it is not alive and well at all.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. Indeed, that is one particular matter I shall touch on shortly. On account of the sheer number of signatories to Michael’s petition, it is only reasonable to assume that similar feelings are held by a great number of people currently living in the UK; but before I explore the technicalities of this request for an election, I want to address the purpose of petitions and their significance in our political system as it is today in the UK. Let us remember that petitions are first and foremost a mechanism of civic engagement and political expression. As individual politicians, each and every one of us resides in this place, in this House, only at the behest of our constituents, and it is surely paramount that a dialogue is always facilitated between us and the public.”
“Furthermore, it is absolutely intrinsic to the proper function of democracy to respect and uphold the democratic mandate that the current Government hold from the British public. I assert that that mandate cannot be overturned by this or any future petition; that would fundamentally undermine the existing institutional constitutional mechanisms that empower the public. The British people had their say in July. They chose the current Government and we must continue to honour that choice. I believe that is a fundamental principle of the way we do things in this country.”
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman, my former colleague from the Scottish Parliament. I will touch on that issue shortly. I also invite him to perhaps surmise that petitions are dealt with rather better in this place than in that other place where we once served, but we will leave that aside for the moment. I will put it very simply: an election cannot be called as a result of a petition. It is a fact that on 4 July, the Labour party won a majority, and they will remain in office for the duration of their term or until the Prime Minister seeks permission from the sovereign to dissolve Parliament at a time of his choosing. That is the way we do things in this country.”
“The electorate must be reassured that all of us as their representatives, who are here at their behest, are willing to listen to their needs. I think that any Government would be wrong to assume that they act in a vacuum. Explanations will always be necessary in a democracy as long-standing and robust as ours—one that I believe is the envy of many other parts of the world. We have a particularly well-attended debate today, which I find, as Chair of the Select Committee, immensely encouraging. I am sure we are going to hear some most interesting and thoughtful contributions. I will draw my remarks to a close, Mrs Harris, and listen with great interest to what follows.”
“We all want an NHS that is properly funded, so that everyone gets the care they need, and we want a society that has proper safeguards so that the most vulnerable are protected from all the horrors that might come their way, which we should stop as best we can. These are, however, huge ambitions. They are very proper and right ambitions that we should sign up to, but they will be expensive. They are not cheap, and allocating resources fairly will be a challenge for a Government of any colour. May I be so bold as to suggest that we improve engagement still more? I hope that communication will improve in the months and years ahead of this debate and that the Government can also be involved in that sort of discussion and deliberation.”
“That is the case in all our constituencies, including mine, regardless of the colour of the Member involved. We know that from the press comment. I return to our guest here: the man who raised the petition, Mr Michael Westwood. He placed a specific emphasis on economic growth as a motivation for creating the petition, and made his dissatisfaction with the Government’s response clear. That is an example of the sort of dialogue that petitions should initiate. I learned something from my discussions with Mr Westwood; I think we can all learn from them. I very much hope that this debate will help the Government address some of the inadequacies that have been identified. I think I speak for us all when I say that we all want to see an economy where large and small businesses can thrive and prosper. That is what drives the nation.”
“In response to the petition, the Cabinet Office reassured the public that it was committed to “fixing the foundations, rebuilding Britain, and restoring public confidence in government.” In particular, the Cabinet Office cited the “£22 billion black hole” as the reason for the very difficult decisions that have had to be made in the past and will be made in the future. None of them is easy and, in all fairness, we should recognise that. In recent months we have witnessed widespread dissatisfaction with various policy decisions that the Government have chosen to make, and that has been touched on by hon. Members today. The decisions to cut winter fuel payments, terminate inheritance tax exemptions for farms, and increase national insurance contributions for employers are three that have proved controversial.”
“I accept the point, but I remind the right hon. Lady that I am a servant of the House and have to be an impartial chairman in this matter. I think we all know that that is the way this place works. Tempting though it might be for me to say something, it would be very wrong, but I may touch on some things like that in due course. It is the case, however, that the Government must respectfully acknowledge the frustration of those who signed the petition and do their utmost to understand the motivation of those good people.”
“I think that each and every one of them can feel that tonight they have been part of democracy. That is how we do things in this country. Thank you. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered e-petition 700143 relating to a general election.”
“Mrs Harris, thank you very much. It is a winter’s night and the hour gets late, so I shall be very brief indeed. In the words of Bruce Forsyth, didn’t they do well? We have had a full and frank exchange of views; could you imagine that happening in the Duma, or—perish the thought—Pyongyang? That is one thing that we do very well in this country: we actually debate things properly. That is the British way of doing democracy. So my thanks go to each and every Member, on both sides of the Chamber, who spoke. My thanks also go to my fellow members of the Petitions Committee, and, in particular, to the wonderful staff who support us on it. Finally, this debate would not have happened if it had not been for the good people out there who put their names to the petition.”
“For far too long Ullapool, in my constituency, did not have a post office, which caused great inconvenience to local people. Recently, however, Tesco stepped into the breach, and we now have a highly successful post office in a branch in the middle of Ullapool. May I recommend this approach to regenerating town centres to the Ministers?”
“If land prices were to go down, as has been described by the Minister—I am not sure I believe that—and a farmer had borrowed heavily from the bank, the bank might look at the value of their asset and could possibly call in the loan, which would put the farmer out of business right away.”
“For generations the grim spectre of highland depopulation haunted the area I come from. I can remember my own father saying, before North sea oil came along, that I would have to go south; to go away. Today we have the Inverness and Cromarty Firth green freeport, and we have the prospect of a space launch in Sutherland. May I ask the Government to consider fiscal means whereby these projects can be assisted? I warmly invite a Treasury Minister to come north to my constituency to see what we are doing and what we have on offer.”
“I am very sorry that I was not in the Chamber for the beginning of the debate. I have very strong views on this matter, because my father died of cancer—I quit 20 years ago, thank God. It occurs to me that we have heard from other people who have quit, and that we who have quit could be mobilised to help others quit. Why do the Government not use us? We could do a lot of good and provide a lot of help.”
“I will keep my remarks very short, because we want to hear the proper detail about this particularly harrowing issue, but I want to end by saying that to my mind the work of the Petitions Committee is very important, and it has a very high hit rate from members of the public who watch the proceedings and go into Hansard to see what we said. It strikes me that that is an important part of the way we do democracy in this country. I will conclude my remarks with that.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I rise to speak for a slightly different reason, which is that I have the honour to be the Chair of the current Petitions Committee and this is its first debate. I thank the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Tony Vaughan) for an excellent contribution. He described a worrying, if not harrowing, situation. I also place on the record my thanks, at this early stage in the life of the Committee, to the Members who have joined it. Their enthusiasm is most encouraging. I cannot continue without saying that we have been hugely impressed by the work put in by the Clerks and all the team who give us the presentations and so on.”
“In the UK we have some very special skills when it comes to developing future defence equipment. To lose those skills would be a desperate business. Does the Secretary of State agree that co-operating and working with our friends in Europe is one way to preserve them?”
“I am sorry that no SNP Members are here to hear that. They should get up and sort it out, because if that is not reactivated, we are in dead trouble.”