Daisy Cooper
MP for St Albans · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“As an Opposition MP myself, I must say that my party and I have been critical of the handover of power that has taken place in the Labour party, but this particular moment, on Third Reading, should belong to the families. [Hon.”
“The Liberal Democrat administration on Hertfordshire county council has made huge strides forward in improving special educational needs and disabilities provision. We were delighted when the Government lifted the improvement notice, which had been imposed when the Conservatives were running the council.”
“I associate myself and my party with the Deputy Prime Minister’s tribute to Sir George Howarth, and his remarks about the 7/7 bombings and all those who live with the consequences of that terrible day. I wish England good luck for Saturday evening.”
“It is clear that it is a two-horse race. [ Laughter. ] On a more serious and very sombre note, MI5 has defended in court an agent who they knew to be openly misogynistic and obsessed with violence. He used his position to coercively control his girlfriend, Beth, and attack her with a machete.”
“Member’s resignation until the investigation is complete, so that the good people of Clacton have all the facts before they cast their votes? Failing that, will he support our “Clacton clause”, so that, even once the hon. Member ceases to be an MP, the investigations can continue?”
“The right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham)—the Prime Minister in waiting—has said that his approach to devolution would be one of urgency, yet we understand that there may be conversations about delaying announcements on local government reorganisation and devolution of powers, so that the new Prime Minister has the glamour of an…”
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“We urge the Government, in the strongest possible terms, to look at the impact on small business, as it is an area about which we are deeply concerned.”
“We Liberal Democrats positively support the Government’s efforts to create a single point of contact, rather than four. A similar measure was in our manifesto, where we called for a powerful new worker protection enforcement authority. As a matter of good practice, when putting different organisations together, it is important to make sure that no gaps are created in that protection. The review we ask for is not just a formality, but an important safeguard to ensure that employment rights enforcement is effective, fair and fit for purpose. There is much in the Bill that we Liberal Democrats welcome, but there are many parts of it that we simply cannot support because it is not yet clear what the Government’s intentions are.”
“They provide part-time, flexible working and opportunities to return to work, so I encourage the Government to look at the impact of part 4 on small businesses. New clause 111 is about introducing legal aid in employment tribunals. When legal aid was first introduced, the intention was for it to become the NHS of the justice system, but we know that today legal aid is far from that. Our amendment would require the Secretary of State to report on options for expanding the right to legal aid in employment tribunals. We already know that many employees cannot afford legal representation, and that creates an imbalance of power when facing well-resourced employers. The amendment simply asks the Government to look at the options that might be available in that regard. New clause 112 asks for a review of the single enforcement body.”
“They know their employees and they want to get things right. That means it will take extra time, effort and cost for them to navigate and comply with this part of the Bill, and that is before we get to everything else that the Government are seeking to introduce. Small businesses are telling me that, taking the measures of the employment Bill together with the changes to national insurance and business rates and everything else, they feel overwhelmed. All that new clause 110 does is ask the Government to conduct an impact assessment. We know that small businesses are passionate about their employees. Small businesses are often the ones to give people their first job. They are often the companies that give people a second chance.”
“New clause 110 simply requests that the Government conduct a review on the impact on small business. Throughout the Bill’s passage, we have expressed concern about the cumulative impact of all the Government’s work in this area and the impact it will have on small businesses in particular. Just the other day, the Federation of Small Businesses told me that it spends thousands and thousands of hours giving advice to small businesses on employment matters, and these new obligations will create a huge amount of extra law for them to understand, interpret and apply. Small businesses do not have the same resources as big business. They often have no legal department, no compliance team and perhaps no human resources specialist. Because small businesses are often rooted in their community, they are conscious of their reputation.”
“However, given what we have before us, we have tabled a few amendments. First, new clause 19 is about the right to be accompanied, and it does what it says on the tin. It would expand the right for staff to be accompanied by a certified companion at disciplinary and grievance hearings. That is a long-standing Liberal Democrat policy, and I hope it is not too controversial, as it simply rectifies an anomaly. The current law allows only trade union representatives or colleagues to accompany an employee, and that leaves many without proper support. Some sectors, such as the medical profession, already allow accompaniment by non-union companions, yet that is not reflected in law. Our targeted amendment would fix that anomaly, and I urge the Government to accept it.”
“We Liberal Democrats believe that employee participation in the workplace is vital, but we also believe that it should go hand in hand with wider employee ownership. That is so important for diffusing economic power, promoting enterprise, increasing job satisfaction, improving service to customers and getting long-term economic stability and growth. The Government’s proposals on trade unions are aimed at strengthening employee rights in what can often be a combative and confrontational working environment, and we Liberal Democrats see this Bill as a missed opportunity to improve employee engagement and ownership to provide collaborative working environments and long-term growth, whether by reforming company purpose rules or putting a duty on employers to encourage employee ownership in large listed companies.”
“However, a lot of crucial detail has been left to secondary legislation, to lots of new Government amendments and to continuing consultations, which makes it impossible to explicitly endorse the Bill as a whole at this stage. Even with 264 amendments in Committee and 457 Government amendments on Report, major issues are still yet to be determined, especially in part 4. Even after all those amendments, the Government say that they intend to “consult further on modernising the trade union landscape following Royal Assent” of this Bill, including on admissibility requirements, a code of practice and secondary legislation. It is therefore clear that part 4, which we are debating today, is still far from finalised.”
“I rise to speak to parts 4 and 5 of the Bill, and specifically to new clause 19, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Steve Darling), and new clauses 110, 111 and 112, which stand in my name. I wish to put on record my thanks to my two Liberal Democrat colleagues, my hon. Friends the Members for Torbay and for Chippenham (Sarah Gibson), for their work in the Public Bill Committee, alongside many other Members of the House. Overall, throughout its passage, we Liberal Democrats have indicated our support for many aspects of the Employment Rights Bill, such as those we debated yesterday, including boosting statutory sick pay, strengthening parental pay and leave, and giving people on zero-hours and low-hours contracts more certainty.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member for addressing some of my concerns, and I look forward to hearing what she says. Just to be clear, I was talking about what can be a combative working environment for employees and employers, and I said there was a missed opportunity to create more collaborative environments. I was not necessarily accusing the trade unions, but working environments can be combative.”
“Is the hon. Member surprised, as I am, that there is so much support on these Benches for caps on political donations and greater transparency about them?”
“As I noted in my speech, there are problems with the Bill. The hon. Member has mentioned the problems on public transport. Does he recall that in 2022 the train unions and the train operating companies actually resolved their dispute, and does he regret that the Transport Minister at the time intervened to block that agreement to resolve the strikes?”
“The hon. Lady will be aware that there is a debate on the National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill next week, where we will debate whether health and social care providers should be excluded from national insurance contributions. Would she care to comment on whether Labour Members will support that amendment made in the House of Lords?”
“Health and wealth are two sides of the same coin, and we will not get economic growth without a healthy population. But as a result of the national insurance contribution changes, the Care Provider Alliance reports that 73% of social care providers will have to refuse new care packages from local authorities or the NHS, and that 57% will have to hand back existing contracts. What assurances can the Government provide to the huge number of people who are very scared that they will have to go without care and see their lives deteriorate?”
“Ministers will be aware of analysis from the Nuffield Trust showing that that additional grant is being dwarfed by the additional costs that the Government are introducing. On the great British high street, we know that our high streets are beautiful features of our cities, market towns and villages, but hospitality, retail, beauty and other service sectors are saying that the combination of national insurance and other changes will be a real hammer blow. If high street shops start to close, that is bad for economic growth and bad for confidence. What mechanisms will Ministers put in place to monitor the impact of the national insurance contributions changes on the vibrancy and resilience of our high streets?”
“I am grateful for that answer, but in an answer to a written parliamentary question last week the Minister suggested that if a leaseholder cannot use an EWS1 fire safety certificate to progress the sale and purchase of their home, they should use the fire risk assessment. However, in many cases, including in my constituency, both the EWS1 form and the fire risk assessment are most likely invalid, if not fraudulent. In those circumstances, what measures can be taken to prioritise fire risk assessments for those leaseholders? What can be done to protect leaseholders from the additional costs of conducting another fire safety assessment after the one that they conducted in good faith?”
“Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one thing that could be done very quickly is that the Government could legislate so that all Airbnb properties need planning permission? That would release a lot of short-term lets back into the market as longer-term lets for younger people.”
“New clause 5 would require the Chancellor to assess and publish a report on how tax changes in this Bill affect households at various income levels. Of course, we all know that the cost of borrowing is at a 30-year high. After the misery of the mini-Budget, mortgage holders in particular will be deeply concerned. Just as we are concerned about certain measures that are in the Finance Bill, we are also concerned about certain measures that are not in the Bill. As we outlined in our reasoned amendment on Second Reading, the Bill does not include measures to reverse the winter fuel payment cuts. More recently, we Liberal Democrats have also called for a social energy tariff, which I hope the Government will consider in due course.”
“I rise to speak to new clauses 4 to 8, and I will make a few additional comments at the end. New clause 4, tabled in my name, would review the Bill’s impact on small and medium-sized enterprises by requiring an impact assessment. In this House, we have rehearsed many times the impact of the Government’s Budget on small and medium-sized enterprises, including through the rise in national insurance contributions, the changes to business rates and, of course, the plans to change inheritance tax and business property relief. We are very concerned about the impact of the Budget as a whole on small and medium-sized enterprises, on our high streets and, of course, on family businesses. It is inconceivable that these changes are going ahead without an impact assessment, so we urge the Government to consider this amendment.”
“We disagree on this point. Fundamentally, Liberal Democrats have said that we should rise the tide for all children, not lower the tide for some. We had a very ambitious education agenda in last year’s general election manifesto. Some areas we had in common with the Labour party, and some not. Our very ambitious agenda for education included a ringfenced high needs budget. I have campaigned relentlessly on improving SEND provision for the past five or six years in this Chamber, in Westminster Hall debates and in various meetings. We do not think that this particular measure is needed to improve SEND funding. Other measures could be used. We have a difference of opinion about how to raise that money.”
“New clause 8 on alcohol duties would require the Government to produce an impact assessment of the Bill’s measures on distilleries, wine producers and the hospitality industry. Since 2022, I have tabled numerous questions in the House and written letters to the Treasury with evidence of falling tax receipts and sales as a result of the measures that the Labour Government are now introducing. They will introduce huge amounts of red tape, which will be very complicated, very costly and, ultimately, will push up prices for consumers and the industry.”
“I am grateful to the right hon. Member for highlighting that the new clause is about an impact assessment. Labour colleagues will be aware that the VAT provision will come into effect very quickly, but it will not provide the instant support that many children need. If children’s education is disrupted, they immediately suffer disadvantages in their life. If the Government had really wanted to pursue this measure, I would have hoped at the very least that it would have happened in a few years’ time to allow for adjustment. But we are where we are. We do not support the measure, but at the very least we request an impact assessment, as the right hon. Member suggested.”
“None the less, that business will be impacted by these measures. They will affect a huge amount of innovation in the industry, which is a prize to our economy.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the plight of Scotch whisky. My husband is an Ayrshire boy who is certainly doing his bit to keep the Scotch whisky industry going. Notwithstanding that, it would help if the Government did not pursue these particular duties. Near my constituency —it was in it before the boundary changes—is an importer of fine wines. One of its products is port—not the kind of drink that many people sit and glug as they might do with a cheaper form of alcohol. [Hon. Members: “Speak for yourself!”] For most families around the United Kingdom, port is a drink to buy for an occasion—a birthday, Christmas, a wedding or something of that kind. It is not typically the kind of drink that someone would glug—with the exception of a few people in the House—in such volumes as other alcoholic drinks.”
“The Liberal Democrats have tabled a number of new clauses, and we hope that colleagues will join us as we press them to the vote.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member for adding his support. I hope that he will join us in the Lobby later. Finally, I will touch briefly on the Government amendments. The Chartered Institute of Taxation has provided a comprehensive briefing to all MPs on the 57 amendments to part 2 of the Bill. It is fair to say that the Government’s proposals on non-doms have been a little hodgepodge. The chartered institute is now strongly advocating for proper consultation. It warns that “uncertainty” that has been introduced through these measures and that the drafting of some amendments may inadvertently achieve the opposite of what the Government seek. On that note, I encourage Ministers to meet the Chartered Institute of Taxation and heed its warnings to ensure that measures are properly drafted and that no uncertainty is introduced through them.”
“In the Liberal Democrats’ new clause 8 on alcohol pricing, the hon. Member will see that we are asking not just for an impact assessment of the taxation raised, but for an assessment and estimation of the administrative and operational costs for the preceding 12 months already incurred by this fantastic part of our industry. Does he agree that an impact assessment of the red tape is important as well as the tax take for the Treasury?”
“The hon. Member will be aware that there is a mechanism within the Government’s energy profits levy, which will kick in in 2030, to ensure that if energy prices start to go down, the levy will cease to work. So there is an intrinsic link between the money that the energy companies pay and energy prices. Does she agree, given that energy prices have now gone up for the third time in a row and all our constituents are struggling with energy prices, that it is right that the big oil and gas companies should pay their fair share, but that when energy prices come down, the levy will stop?”
“The hon. Member will be acutely aware that there are huge supply chains. Distillers are fantastic for attracting people, including in the tourism industry, to create strong local economies. There is huge innovation going on in that industry. It is essential that the Government carry out an impact assessment not just of how much the measures will cost and of the tax revenue to the Treasury, but of the operational costs and the red tape over the 12 months before the measure, which will cause havoc, comes in. Does he agree?”
“In new clause 8, which deals with alcohol pricing, we have made explicit that we are not just looking for an impact assessment of the tax that the Government intend to raise. It is about the estimate of administrative operational costs—that is, the red tape that is going to be put on the industry. Does the Minister agree that we need that impact assessment, and will he meet me to discuss how we can do it?”
“In the light of those concerns, which have been raised both in the media and in the Chamber today by Members from all sides of the House, can I urge the Deputy Prime Minister to convene a meeting for all MPs whose constituents are affected, and does she agree that it is time that the police investigated those reports?”
“I welcome the Deputy Prime Minister’s statement. I particularly welcome the Government’s acceptance of the recommendation on professionalising and regulating fire engineers and assessors, not least because five years ago, in the Committee on the Fire Safety Act 2021, I tabled new clause 2, which would have created a public register of fire risk assessors. Had my new clause been accepted, we might have been able to avoid the developing scandal of the issuance of potentially fraudulent EWS1 certificates by Tri Fire, which could have a devastating impact on thousands of leaseholders, including some in my constituency.”
“I have been invited to make an intervention, so I will very quickly say that while the right hon. Gentleman was reasonably outspoken on the mini-Budget, the same cannot be said of his colleagues on the Front Bench.”
“If the Conservatives want to continue with their pint-sized politics, it will be the Liberal Democrats who will continue to have the official Opposition well and truly over a barrel. Jokes aside, there are changes in the Labour Budget that are no laughing matter: the national insurance contribution changes and the reduction in business rates relief will deliver a hammer blow to our pubs. They will have no choice but to put up prices for punters and many more may be pushed to the brink.”
“They could not tell a kilderkin from a craft keg. Their defective attempt to introduce a draught beer relief ended up excluding the very small craft brewers they were claiming to help. When a former Conservative Prime Minister had the audacity to have a photo op with the casks that he had mistakenly left out of the draft duty relief support scheme, it was the Liberal Democrats who worked with publicans and small brewers to force that correction. If the official Opposition want to pretend to stand up for the great British pub, they will need to do their homework. They should get out and speak to the struggling pubs and hospitality businesses that they have ignored.”
“I am tempted to call it a load of old Codswallop, but I would not want to insult the makers of that very fine pale ale. I could instead accuse the Conservatives of scraping the barrel. Let us just say that the Conservatives’ claim that the pint will be abolished is as fanciful as Labour’s claim that punters will see a penny taken off the price of their pint. They won’t. Frankly, if the Opposition think they are standing up for pubs they need to think again. I say this not only as the MP for St Albans, where we have more pubs per square mile than anywhere else in Britain, but also, I am proud to say, as the MP crowned last year as pub parliamentarian of the year. [ Interruption. ] I was, yes. The last Conservative Government proved, unfortunately, that they did not know their firkin from their pin.”
“Burston Garden Centre is a long-established family business with a lovely restaurant and is a fantastic place for a day out. We have beauty companies, building merchants and electric vehicle charger stores, all of which are family businesses. And one of my favourite pubs, too: The Boot, handed down from Will to his son Sean. On the subject of pubs, what on earth is this absurd idea in the Opposition day motion that the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill will somehow put the British pint at threat? The pint is well and truly safe. [ Interruption. ] The pint is well and truly safe, something I am sure the entire House wants to hear. The pint is enshrined in law in the Weights and Measures Act 1985, so this scaremongering is just total nonsense.”
“May I invite the Minister either to intervene on me now or to say in responding to the debate whether the Government will meet Family Business UK to discuss the findings of its survey once it is complete? We should not just think of family businesses as units for tax revenue. Family businesses are different. Family farms rightly grab the public’s imagination, but there is more than that. In my constituency of St Albans, I can think of many. Hedges Farm Shop is a much loved, family run, award winning farm shop, and its delicious meat is often on the menu of our award winning restaurants. Waterers tailors is run by two generations of the Masi family, providing bespoke, high quality tailoring and some especially fancy men’s jackets.”
“The business rates proposals will be incredibly damaging for small businesses on our high streets. On a number of occasions in the House, I have invited Ministers to look at House of Commons Library research commissioned by the Liberal Democrats that shows that chains will continue to be subsidised by small independents. Of course, there are also the changes to APR and BPR, which will raise a relatively small amount of money for the Treasury but could be devastating to many small family businesses across the UK. Family Business UK, which I met this morning, is urging the Government to run an impact assessment. It is conducting its own impact assessment in partnership with the National Farmers Union, where it intends to speak to more than 3,000 family businesses about the potential impact of these measures.”
“Their botched Brexit deal has deprived many family businesses of access to European markets, raising trade barriers for imports and exports, and wrapped them up in reams of red tape. They wreaked havoc with their mini-Budget, making access to finance too expensive for many, and they failed to address the soaring energy costs and broken energy market that has resulted in many small family businesses suffering from extortionate energy contracts and being frozen out of the best deals. That is why it is disappointing to see that the Labour Government are making some of the same mistakes. The national insurance contributions rise is unnecessary. The Government could have raised that £10 billion through other, fairer means such as taxes on big corporations that have raised billions, using that money to put public services back on their feet.”
“Indeed, they are often the largest employer in a region and the largest philanthropic organisation in those communities, too. But in tabling the motion, the official Opposition do not seek to acknowledge or accept the damage that they have done to family businesses over the years. [ Interruption. ] If the official Opposition are patient, they will realise that I will not pull my punches when addressing the Government, but it is an Opposition day debate, so let me continue to outline the litany of mistakes that have occurred over the years. The Conservatives scrapped the industrial strategy, which was the bedrock of long-term planning. They failed to reform the broken business rates system, which has hammered family businesses on the high street. They starved family businesses of seasonal workforces, which many of them need.”
“I am delighted to speak on behalf of the Liberal Democrats about family businesses, because they are so important and make a distinct contribution to our economy and to their local communities. Family businesses are synonymous with quality, trust and reliability. Family businesses have a strong sense of stewardship of their craft, their capital and their customer base. By their very nature, family businesses have the goal of nurturing their business to pass through to the next generation and, as a result, have a vested interest in long-term decisions, the stability of the economy and building a resilient community. Where family businesses are located on high streets, they are often the anchor stores, bringing back loyal customers time and again. Family businesses are present in every part of the UK.”
“In hospitality, of course, it is not just the increase in the national insurance contribution rates that will have an impact. The changes will also mean that many part-time workers will not be recruited to work in those businesses. That will impact in particular women, people from ethnic minorities and young people. Young people often work in hospitality as their first job. Often hospitality can give them the chance to work after something adverse has happened in their life. I think all of us in this House can say that we support hospitality, and it is vital that we continue to support it.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Member for raising those points. Our high streets are the beating hearts of our communities all over the UK. There is real concern that when the national insurance contribution changes and the reduction in the business rates relief kick in, our high streets will be absolutely hammered and we may indeed see tumbleweed. That matters for two reasons: there will be an impact on our local economies and that could have a knock-on impact on people’s confidence. Many people with busy lives do not always get to follow headlines about growth, inflation, interest rates and all the rest, but they do look to their high streets as the primary signal of whether or not the economy is working for them and whether it is working in their local area.”
“We have debated such things many times, and we urge the Government once again to look very closely at the impact of the NIC rise and to do the impact assessment that we all so desperately want.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that contribution and I absolutely agree. The House has debated many times the impact of the national insurance contribution rise. Colleagues may remember that the Liberal Democrats tabled a number of amendments to exclude particular groups. We are opposed to the NIC rise full stop, and we put forward alternative ways in which the Government could raise the revenue, but we said that if the Government were intent on pursuing that particular measure, then some organisations should be exempted. We pointed in particular to health and care providers, including social care providers, but we also talked about early years providers, universities, charities and hospices.”
“We have rehearsed on a number of occasions the impact of the Government’s Budget on small businesses and family businesses across the land. The Liberal Democrats are incredibly concerned about the impacts on family businesses and on the future of our high streets. We will not be supporting the official Opposition’s motion today, which I am sure they will be astonished to hear. [ Interruption. ] They are astonished, as you can tell, Madam Deputy Speaker, from the chuntering from the Conservative Benches. Notwithstanding, we urge the Government in the strongest possible terms to conduct an impact assessment and to look again at the amendments the Liberal Democrats tabled to exclude key organisations from their hike to national insurance contributions.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that contribution. Automation can have some value many sectors and industries, alongside employing and training up the next generation, but it would be devastating to other sectors if automation replaces the next generation. That is particularly important in farming, but also hospitality. The very nature of hospitality is that it is hospitable. Going to the pub and being served by a vending machine is not really someone’s idea of a good night out. I agree with my hon. Friend that automation, when put alongside investing in the next generation and staff, can be a good thing, but as a replacement it can have devastating impacts on the future of sectors and on people’s opportunities.”
“Does the hon. Member agree that it would be helpful if the Minister, in his closing remarks, gave assurances that the Government were willing to meet Family Business UK, which is conducting its own survey of the impact of APR and BPR changes on businesses?”
“The shadow Minister was in the Chamber when I spoke earlier. Does he not agree that it is the Weights and Measures Act 1985 that protects our pint and that we should not be scaremongering that our pint is in anyway at risk?”