Mr Richard Holden
MP for Basildon and Billericay · Conservative · United Kingdom
“Having spoken to Mr Speaker earlier today, it was my understanding that urgent questions requested by my party and by the Liberal Democrats were not accepted because the Government gave assurances that a statement will be made in the House tomorrow.”
“I also agree with the Secretary of State’s observation in her letter to colleagues on 1 September, in which she said that the contributions of the Lords have helped strengthen the legislation before the House today. At its core, this is broadly an administrative Bill.”
“If the Minister would like to speak, he can stand at the Dispatch Box. No, he does not want to do that—fine. We will have him here tomorrow, then, as we were told today that our urgent question would not be accepted because the Minister would be making a statement. We will have to see whether that actually happens.”
“I know that the Secretary of State is incredibly busy selling out taxpayers in her latest meetings with union barons who have her over a barrel; she was apparently too busy to join me and many of the shadow ministerial team at the Farnborough air show.”
“I genuinely find it difficult to believe that the Secretary of State does not herself believe that there is a simple link between Gatwick having a minimum target of more than half of passengers getting to and from the airport by public transport and the soaring drop-off charges.”
“The Government have talked a lot about growth, yet have refused to set tangible targets to deliver it—whether in this aviation Bill, or indeed for passenger growth in the Railways Bill.”
The complete record
Every one of 600 lines we hold for Mr Richard Holden, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 10 of 12.
“He clearly has the clarity and volume of a town crier so, even if we do not always agree with him, we will certainly hear him from this side of the Chamber. I welcome him to his place. The hon. Member for Blyth and Ashington (Ian Lavery), the hon. Member for Eltham and Chislehurst (Clive Efford), who speaks for the APPG, and the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire (Pete Wishart) talked about different aspects of this subject, but they each mentioned the children who were used for research. I am sure that the Minister will want to reflect on that in his closing comments. All three hon. Gentlemen touched on the patient’s voice. One recommendation is that the patient’s voice should be improved with the routine collection of patient satisfaction data, and with funding for patient advocacy groups and charities.”
“It is incumbent on us all in this House to do our part to restore trust in our state, because that has been damaged, as well as thousands of lives. Ensuring that those payments go out, as was committed to, is an important part of that. More broadly, I will reflect on the challenges ahead. Before I do that, I will touch on a couple of remarks made by Members in this debate. The hon. Member for Gedling (Michael Payne) made his maiden speech, and he spoke kindly of his predecessor, who is a good friend of mine. He probably does not remember, but I campaigned against him back in 2014 when my right hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick) was a young by-election candidate. Today, the hon. Gentleman spoke very strongly of his personal story.”
“I thank all Members who have spoken in this debate, and agree that what happened to the victims of the infected blood scandal was profoundly wrong and should never be repeated. The establishment of the inquiry in 2017 was the right first step towards doing what we can to repair the damage, inasmuch as that can ever be possible. I am pleased that the work started by the previous Government to adopt the recommendations put forward by the inquiry is being continued by this Government. I must point out, though, how important it is for the Government to stay on schedule and start delivering payments through the Infected Blood Compensation Authority by the end of the year, as the Paymaster General outlined. We will ensure that that happens.”
“I should probably start by paying tribute to my predecessor in this role, my right hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen), who has also been Paymaster General. He has done so much on this issue, and I will touch on his comments a bit later. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) for opening for the Opposition today. I will just mention to the Paymaster General and other Ministers in the Department that they obviously continue to have our broad support. We should never stop acknowledging the size and scale of this issue, which is almost unimaginable to Members from across the House. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire said that we needed to see justice, and that is what all the victims would like.”
“I welcome the Government’s commitment in this area. Since 1999, there have been only six years when the regular forces have grown in size, and all three armed forces are currently below target. Does the Minister believe there will be any year between now and 2030 when there will be a net increase in numbers? Does he have a target for the overall increase in those years? Or is it a bit like 2.5% of GDP, and we will just have to wait and see—“Make me good, but not yet”?”
“During Prime Minister’s questions yesterday, the Government accepted that they were giving councils a maximum of £600 million, but the Local Government Association has said that there is £2.4 billion worth of pressure. Does the Minister accept that councils will have to increase their tax by about £1.8 billion to fill the gap between what the Government are offering them and what they need to provide local services?”
“A trustee of the Hamelin Trust, a not-for-profit provider of care and support across Essex, has contacted me because he is concerned about the £92,650 rise in national insurance that Hamelin will have to pay because of the measures introduced by the Government. He said: “This will affect what they can do to support our communities and subsequently put more pressure on the NHS and local authorities. The impact on disabled people and older adults who rely on regular, consistent, high-quality care will be profound.” I do not believe that the Government intended to hammer the disabled or older people who need care, so will the Minister prove me right and look at the policy again?”
“Members may be surprised to hear that marriage between first cousins remains legal in the UK, despite the genetic issues and concerns about women’s rights. Norway banned the practice recently, Sweden is considering doing the same, and various states in America have banned it as well. I received a very good answer to my written parliamentary question on this subject, and I should like the Leader of the House to pass on my thanks to the Minister responsible for it. I am keen to build on work that I did in the last Parliament to ban hymenoplasty and so-called virginity testing—work that the last Government incorporated in the Health and Care Act 2022—but will the Leader of the House speak to the relevant Department to find out whether time can be made for an debate on this important issue?”
“I predict that he might say 2030, as that is the date set for the sunset of this legislation. Can he confirm why it is this timeframe that has been selected? As I previously mentioned, there are six women bishops in the House of Lords, and I am glad that the legislation has supported them in contributing so meaningfully to Parliament, but can he tell the House whether he expects to see another five-year extension in a few years’ time?”
“This has meant that there are now six women bishops in the House of Lords, all of whom have made valuable contributions in the other place. The extension of the Bill is even shorter. It simply extends the sunset clause that was agreed in 2015, and maintains the suspension in rules so that female bishops will join the Lords Spiritual slightly sooner than they would otherwise have done. Let me express the Opposition’s support for this simple piece of legislation. When we first introduced this legislation, it was agreed that a 10-year span would give sufficient time to assess its effectiveness. And because we are here today, I believe that we can probably agree that that timeframe was fine. I would like to ask the Paymaster General when he expects this legislation to no longer be necessary.”
“This is a straightforward Bill, limited in its scope, with the simple purpose of extending the Lords Spiritual (Women) Act 2015 by another five years. Introduced by the coalition Government, the 2015 Act complemented the legislation that had been brought in the previous year to allow women to become bishops in the first place. The intention was to ensure that those women had a fair chance of sitting alongside their male counterparts as one of the 26 Lords Spiritual. Overall, the Act seems to have been successful in doing so. The original legislation suspended the rules that automatically elevated the most senior diocesan bishop to the House of Lords, and instead elevated a female diocesan bishop, if one was available.”
“I thank the Paymaster General for his clear introduction of this legislation and for the praise that he gave to my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen). I very much want to continue the work that my right hon. Friend did on the infected blood scandal with the Paymaster General, and I look forward to doing so. May I also thank the right hon. Member for extending a warm welcome to me? I was a special adviser in the House of Lords in the months after the 2015 Act was passed and saw at first hand the introduction of the first female bishops. As Paymaster General, the right hon. Member has an important role. He will remember that Viscount Addison did it back in the 1940s, and became the first Labour Knight of the Garter, which I am sure the right hon. Member may be looking forward to in the future.”
“Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) about the former Prime Minister, who was our first British Asian Prime Minister, and about the Leader of the Opposition, who is the first black female leader of a major UK political party. I think we would like to say, in the words of my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak), that it is “not a big deal”, but that is the way things have worked out. I caution the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee), who is famous already for his slightly cheeky contributions in the Chamber, to be careful what he wishes for when he suggests he would like more Opposition Members to speak in debates about bishops.”
“The hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Anna Gelderd) made an incredibly moving speech. I remember her predecessor well; we served on the 1922 committee together. I thought her mention of the RNLI was particularly poignant. As a former transport Minister, I remember that the her predecessor and other hon. Members brought up the Tamar bridge regularly, and I am sure it is an issue that she will take forward. I was delighted to hear her mention pasties, a traditional food. I have my own pie and mash campaign at the moment, so perhaps we could work together on the protection of local foodstuffs. The speeches from the hon. Members for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), and for Stockport (Navendu Mishra), mentioning some of the female bishops who have been trailblazers, were superb. I noted the comments of the hon.”
“Reflecting some of the comments that the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) has made, would it not be great to see some more Cross-Bench peers in the House of Lords drawn from the retired bishops, particularly the female bishops? Perhaps they could go through the appointments process for people who have contributed to public life.”
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. During Prime Minister’s questions, the Prime Minister said that the Government had “not touched national insurance”, despite their having raised the rate of national insurance payable by 1.2% and reduced the threshold at which employers have to pay it. May I seek your guidance on what the Prime Minister can do to correct the record?”
“A small business in my constituency to which I have spoken over the last few weeks has raised concerns about the impact of the national insurance rises in the Budget on, in particular, those in lower-paid work, who in many cases are young people starting their jobs. What impact do the Government think that those rises will have on young people and youth unemployment?”
“The right hon. Gentleman mentions the consequences for the broader community and businesses of extra taxes on the agricultural sector. Those are felt in my constituency of Basildon and Billericay, where we have the big New Holland tractor factory. This weekend, constituents were already coming to me worried about how the changes will impact their jobs. It is not just rural Britain that is affected. Does he acknowledge that there is a knock-on effect across the entire economy?”
“Answers to my recent written parliamentary questions have talked of the positive impact that relations with families can have on prisoner resettlement. However, in a number of cases, particularly those involving sexual violence, the prisoner has no contact with the family and their release is usually a traumatic moment for those families and children. That is why I welcomed Labour’s manifesto pledge to introduce a national identification system for the children of prisoners as a vitally important measure. What are the Government doing to meet that pledge and break the offending cycle across generations?”
“One of my constituents has been attending court to resolve a matter around divorce and periodical payments since 2015. Although she has achieved positive results at all the court hearings, with many court orders, sadly there have always been errors and incompetence in the system. Will the Minister meet me to discuss these matters so that I can get a final resolution, after almost a decade, for my constituent?”
“Will the Secretary of State acknowledge, as the right hon. Baroness Smith of Basildon has in the other place, that concerns around freedom of speech and academic freedom in our universities are not a botched culture war but a serious matter that needs to be addressed properly?”
“Ten million pensioners, almost 30 million workers who the Institute for Fiscal Studies says will now see lower wages because of national insurance rises, tens of thousands of farmers, hundreds of thousands of small businesses seeing business rates rising, and today millions of students. Is there anyone that this Government told before the general election “Don’t worry!” who they have not since shafted?”
“Eighty-two per cent of those who have seen Labour take away their winter fuel payment are either below the poverty line or within £55 a week of it. How can the Government justify this, when they are not even allowing a freedom of information request from the Financial Times to be responded to? They are hiding the figures from the people.”
“Of the 12,000 UNRWA employees, about one in five are members of Hamas, and almost 500 of them are members of Hamas’s military wing. When I asked the Foreign Secretary whether he could guarantee that UK taxpayers’ money would not go via UNRWA if there were any links with Hamas, he did not answer my question, so I ask the same question today. Is the Minister able to give UK taxpayers a guaranteed assurance that Hamas has no links with UNRWA in aid delivery in Gaza?”
“This year marks 80 years since D-day and one of my constituents, Don Sheppard, who died aged 104 this year, was a veteran of both D-day and Arnhem. On the point my hon. Friend is making, Don’s quote was, “The lads that didn’t make it back, those are the other ones we need to remember.” Does my hon. and gallant Friend agree on that point?”
“Within five months of entering office, this Government will introduce VAT on independent schools, with all the impact that may have on the state sector. How long will we have to wait for an actual plan for SEND children, rather than just political posturing around VAT?”
“My hon. Friend is making a fantastic speech, covering all aspects of the hospitality sector. An extra benefit of draught beer relief is that 97% of the input into draught beer is made in the UK. That has a big knock-on effect across our agricultural sector. It is a win-win for UK farmers, the UK Exchequer and the hospitality sector. I urge him to continue to press the Government to push for greater relief in that space.”
“The pie and mash and liquors are freshly made, using authentic family-owned recipes that have been passed down through generations like precious heirlooms. They are something that in Italy or France, let us say, would be instantly recognised as being worth celebrating and preserving, and I will say more on that broader point a little later.”
“It is a staple of cockney cuisine, moving out to places such as the east of England and Kent as the cockney diaspora moved post-war. That is why there are pie and mash shops in Basildon today. We seek recognition to safeguard the heritage of pie and mash, and to promote pie and mash, both here in the UK and internationally. Back in the 1840s, pie and mash became an iconic food, closely associated with cockney culture and the social identity of non-posh Londoners. Over the years, more than a hundred pie and mash shops, typically family-owned, spread out from the inner London heartlands of Southwark and Tower Hamlets right across the areas across the country where the cockney diaspora had spread to. Traditional pie and mash is an artisan food.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the potential merits of providing traditional speciality guaranteed status to pie and mash. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Mark, in this debate. What is this debate all about? Well, there is a big picture and a little picture, and I will start off small. In my constituency of Basildon and Billericay, there are two fantastic pie and mash shops: Robins Pie & Mash in the town square; and Stacey’s pie and mash shop on Timberlog Lane. Both of them provide fantastic local produce and they are absolute hubs of the local community. And it has been really interesting to see the feedback that I have already received from local people about this campaign to give protected status to this traditional British product. What is pie and mash and why is it a traditional British product?”
“Having more of these marks of protected status, whether that is the protected designation of origin or the geographic indication, would be a good start, but I am also thinking today of the third category, which is the traditional status guaranteed. That is not specifically geographically limited but is about the way that a product is produced. Pie and mash would be another brilliant food to do that for.”
“That is exactly what I am attempting to do and I commend the hon. Gentleman for his work in this space. Actually, there are not enough British products that we have talked up for their local credentials and their special place in our country’s heritage, national cuisine and national heart. France has over 800 products that have similar protected status and Italy has just under that number; the number for the UK is under a hundred. Given our culinary heritage, and particularly the culinary heritage of London as a global centre of cuisine, and given the great and diverse range of products and foodstuffs that we have across the country, we should be doing more in this area to talk up Britain and British food, to boost both food exports and our tourism.”
“I have seen families going there, with fathers taking their daughters out. It is important that that continues, because it is great to see it thriving on a local level. Right across the country, we have seen changes in demographics and taste. This has perhaps seen the movement of traditional pie and mash shops from their heartland in London out to places like Basildon and the new towns of the east of England. Cornish pasties and Bramley apple pies have traditional speciality guarantee, but we now want to see that for pie and mash. Pie and mash made by artisans is the next step in that direction. It is too often looked down on, and we need to start thinking about how we can celebrate it better.”
“I am sure that the Modern Cockney group I have been working on this with, and their founder Andy, and Ben who has been working with them from Loadstone, will be more than willing to get into the nitty-gritty details of what is required with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs over the coming months. This is just a small step in what we should be doing for more of our food products from across the country. Traditional speciality guarantee is needed because there is a well-trodden media narrative that pie and mash is in decline. We are in an age of global fast food brands, yet pie and mash has shown a stubborn refusal to die. It has been really good to see it thriving in the shops I have visited. I have been multiple times over the last few months, particularly to the ones in Basildon.”
“I could not agree with my right hon. Friend more. We should be doing everything we can to talk up regional cuisine from all parts of our country. I cannot think of anything better to come out of this debate than to ensure that regional food products such as pie and mash or Staffordshire oatcakes find their way on to the House of Commons menu in one of our regular regional food events. I hope that the catering team are listening, so that we can get these products promoted further. Traditional speciality guarantee does not rely on a geographical connection but the way that a product is produced.”
“Yes, there is obviously high-end cuisine that we want to celebrate at a national level, and I am sure that is exactly what the Government and DEFRA want to do too, but traditional speciality foods need to be looked at in the broader context and celebrated too.”
“I cannot possibly agree with the hon. Member any more. Many of his constituents wander across the road to get to the pie and mash shops in my constituency, and I encourage them to do so even more in the future. He raises an important point about us as a country not recognising some of the great food heritage that we have and what an asset it is to our country. I had an email from a constituent today—a chef working in a Michelin-starred restaurant in London—who had read about the debate being proposed in Parliament. He and his son agreed that we need to talk up what we have traditionally produced. He said that they love the original pie and mash and that he wishes us every success in the campaign. I thought that was a really good sign.”
“Members have mentioned, other parts of the country will look at how we can champion their local food produce—yes, in order for it to be recognised locally, which is a nice thing, but also for the broader economic narrative, whether that is exports or tourism. I thank my pie and mash shops in Basildon and Billericay for putting up with me invading them over the last few weeks, particularly Robins, which has had the national media with it over the last couple of days. To everyone, I say: get out there—try that pie and mash. To the Minister, I say: I hope we will be able to get this status. I hope that at the end of this process, we can say to him, “Yes, Pie Minister.””
“Members know, has suffered since the covid pandemic and we are hoping to get it back on its feet. So what are we after? We are after traditional speciality guaranteed status. We are not after a geographical designation, but we are after something that recognises the important traditional heritage of pie and mash. When do we want it to happen? Well, as soon as possible. I hope the Minister will look forward to working with the Modern Cockneys and pie and mash shops to bring it to fruition. This debate points to something wider about British culinary heritage, about how we view food in Britain, and perhaps a little bit about how we view our own food in this country. That is something we need to look at again. We need to look at how we can celebrate it more. I hope that, as hon. and right hon.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend and neighbour for raising that. I cannot wait to come down to Rayleigh and Wickford. Maybe we could do an Essex pie and mash championship and get an awards scheme going—maybe that is the next step for this campaign. But my right hon. Friend also makes an important point. Everybody starts somewhere on their journey with pie and mash. Mine started as a 19-year-old when I moved to east London and came across pie and mash for the first time. If we gave pie and mash a little bit of a status boost with traditional speciality guaranteed status, it would perhaps be opened up to more people, and more people might want to think about it. It would also provide a boost to that sector, particularly as our broader hospitality sector, as hon.”
“T5. Hezbollah continues to use Lebanese civilians as human shields. On Friday, the caretaker Prime Minister in Lebanon accused Iran of blatant interference in Lebanese affairs. What more will the Minister do to help ensure that both Israeli and Lebanese counterparts can face down the threat from Iran?”
“Recent footage of Metropolitan police officers saying that the description of Hezbollah as a terror group was a matter of “opinion” is alarming. The officers in question were deployed to a march in central London where support for Hezbollah was openly displayed, yet many offenders were only identified by photos on social media after the event. Will the Minister ensure that all officers are fully briefed on the proscribed status of Hezbollah, Hamas and other terrorist organisations, so that offenders are arrested on the spot, and not allowed to spew antisemitic hate on our streets?”
“T7. The Home Secretary is benefiting from some of the measures on legal routes for migration brought in by my right hon. Friend the Member for Braintree (Mr Cleverly) when he was in government, which have caused the number of people able to come to the UK to halve. What further measures has she taken to ensure that legal migration is cut further?”
“Women are those most often criminalised for non-payment of the licence fee. The BBC charter review offers an opportunity for the Government to look at this issue again. Will the Government consider decriminalising non-payment of the licence fee?”
“The Minister talks about piecemeal reform and says the argument is stale, but surely the really stale argument is Labour’s. The Labour party came into government with an enormous majority and wants to reform the House of Lords, so why does it not get on and do it? Why do the Labour Government not set out some cross-party work that we can all get involved with, and introduce proper reform measures, rather than just tinkering at the edges, as the Bill does, for pure political advantage?”
“The hon. Gentleman has had a nice laugh at my expense, but he knows what it is like to lose an election and to move seats. He made a good point about the Labour manifesto including the removal of hereditary peers, but as my right hon. Friend the Member for Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge (Sir Gavin Williamson) made clear, the same paragraph includes the introduction of a retirement age at 80. Will the hon. Gentleman welcome any amendments to introduce that in this legislation?”
“My right hon. Friend is making a fantastic point. He will know that it was in the Tudor era that reform of the House of Lords started, when the majority of bishops were removed, leaving these 26. The Paymaster General made a point about reforms not having been properly continued since 1999, but actually, when we are looking back to the 16th century, we can see that some of these reforms really need to catch up with modern times.”
“Why go for piecemeal reform when the Government have the space to ask the country what it wants? Why not put something forward with the legislative time available, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge (Sir Gavin Williamson) said? We could have a proper debate, as the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) said, on the future of the country.”
“I am grateful to be called in this important debate. I have a little bit of experience of this issue, having served as a special adviser in the House of Lords, working with the now Leader of the House of Lords when she was on the Opposition Front Bench. I also worked with Baroness Stowell of Beeston and as special adviser to Baroness Evans of Bowes Park, as well as with some hereditary peers, including Freddie, Lord Howe and Patrick, the Earl of Courtown. It is important to acknowledge, as many Members have, the service that all Members of the House of Lords give to our country. Ministers perhaps did not understand exactly where I was coming from when I intervened earlier, but my point has been made by Members from across the Opposition Benches.”
“That was built on many measures over the years, including the Life Peerages Act 1958, which was passed by a Conservative Government. If we are going to consider changing the situation in the House of Lords and what it is going to be, other conventions will be called into question. Surely it would be better to deal with the whole issue and get it right, than to have to legislate two or three times, or make further changes down the line? Why not get something that the whole House and the country can have a proper debate on and reach proper agreement, and then legislate in one piece?”