YouSaid · the spoken record

Jess Phillips

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On the record 2015–2026

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ON RECORD

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  1. “New clause 41, tabled by the hon. Member for Stockton West, would make it an offence to provide free or discounted rent in exchange for sex. I reassure the hon. Member that the Government firmly believe that the exploitation and abuse that can occur through so-called sex-for-rent arrangements has no place in our society. However, we have existing offences that can and have been used to prosecute this practice, including causing or controlling prostitution for gain. I know the hon. Member will appreciate that this is a complex issue. I reassure the Committee that the Government will continue working closely with the voluntary and community sector, the police and others to ensure that the safeguarding of women remains at the heart of our approach.”

    House of Commons8 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  2. “The Government have set out an unprecedented mission to halve violence against women and girls within a decade, and we have already set out a number of transformative measures to overhaul the policing response to these terrible crimes. This includes announcing a £13 million investment in the new national centre for violence against women and girls and public protection, and we will publish the new violence against women and girls strategy before the summer recess.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  3. “I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. The Victims Minister and I chair the violence against women and girls cross-government board, which meets very regularly. It has led to our violence against women and girls strategy, which sits within that. It is an expert group that helps us on policy. It includes local government, the voluntary sector, the police and other members of civil society. She is absolutely right to say that this policy will involve everybody.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  4. “We are working with Cabinet Office colleagues and others across Government on the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse. It is vital to ensure that any strategy includes therapeutic and other support for child victims, so that they can take action, and we can ensure justice.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  5. “Women travelling alone at night should not feel afraid, yet many do. We are committed to the safer streets mission, and to halving violence against women and girls in the next decade. We will continue to work closely with the rail industry, including the British Transport Police, to do that. Work being done includes a review of the secure station scheme, which ensures that train operators meet a set of standards for security at stations; and we are taking measures that support personal safety.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  6. “I pay tribute to the hon. Lady’s constituent, and to the many others who came forward during the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse, but what I would like to tell him is that when I came to office, there was absolutely no plan on this issue, other than a sentence to say that something would be done around the redress scheme. I have updated the House fully on the IICSA recommendations, and can tell the hon. Lady that the plan is still in train.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  7. “I will absolutely meet the hon. Lady to discuss those issues. The migrant victims of domestic abuse concession applies to all migrant victims, regardless of the type of visa that they are on, and it should be providing that support, but I am more than happy to meet her.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  8. “I thank the hon. Lady, and absolutely pay tribute to her work on this issue, which I have seen directly in Northern Ireland. What I would say, as I am sure anyone would at this Dispatch Box, is that I would always encourage everybody to follow the laws in our country in step.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  9. “The hon. Lady makes an impassioned point. It will be a fundamental part of the violence against women and girls strategy to get to the exact reason why we have ended up with an epidemic of violence against women and girls in all the nations of the United Kingdom, and to root it out. For too long, we have sought to put ever-bigger plasters on the problem, rather than finding the reason for it and preventing it from happening.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  10. “The Government are taking unprecedented action to improve the response to these heinous crimes, so that we get more perpetrators behind bars and get justice for victims and survivors. We are increasing investment in the taskforce, and every police force has been asked to review cases that were closed with no further action taken. Arrests are increasing. We are expanding victims’ rights to review. Crucially, we are introducing the new, long-overdue mandatory reporting duties, and the new statutory aggravating factor for grooming offences.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  11. “To answer the hon. Gentleman’s final point, to be clear, national statutory inquiries do not send anyone to prison. He rightly mentioned Baroness Casey and her work in Rotherham, and others’ work in Rochdale. The reason why we know about some of the terrible behaviours is because of the brilliant local inquiries undertaken in those towns. Louise Casey is undertaking a national audit that will report shortly.”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  12. “The hon. Lady points out the terrible things that have gone on historically, and that continue to be a concern across our country. That is exactly why the Government are investing in the taskforce, which is working across the country with police forces to ensure that people can be arrested and girls can be kept safe. Arrests have gone up. Absolutely everybody thinks this issue is terrible. I remind the hon. Lady that she gladly served as Women and Equalities Minister under a Prime Minister who said that looking into these historical cases was “spaffing money up the wall.””

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  13. “I will absolutely protect my own in this. My own are the women in our country, who, for the last 14 years, have seen no efforts made. People say terrible things, and the Leader of the House was right to apologise. I wonder how many of those on the Opposition Front Bench asked the former Prime Minister to apologise for saying that looking into the lives of the girls we are talking about, through a statutory inquiry that had already happened, was spaffing money up the wall. Where was the outrage?”

    House of Commons7 May 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  14. “The shadow Minister spoke about an incident that happened in my constituency. I want to assure everybody that the people who committed those criminal offences, which were not part of any protest, were held accountable and sent to prison.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  15. “Friend the Member for Dudley, although obviously I also think Birmingham should get some money for services. I am not suggesting we should get rid of all of our resources and give them to Dudley, but I am happy to share. I will wrap up by thanking everyone who has contributed to the debate, which has been yet another reminder of the strength of feeling around this issue and the harm that antisocial behaviour causes in communities across the country. It has been a pleasure for me to be among those who sound like me, which is not an experience I often get; it has been a pleasure to take part in this wholly west midlands-related debate. Whether in Dudley or anywhere else, decent, law-abiding people rightly want this problem gripped. The Government agree with them and we are determined to deliver the safer streets that they want and deserve.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  16. “I appreciate my hon. Friend’s diligent diplomacy because I am the Minister. It is funny: I spend a lot of time in my day job bashing London for getting all the money, so it is nice to get some just deserts. When it comes to the metrics that get used to ensure that funding is given out fairly, I can imagine what it feels like in a town next to a large city. When there is a behemoth like Birmingham next door, I imagine it can feel as though Birmingham gets the money. While I am in the Home Office, I will always use my voice to stand up for extra resources for the whole of the West Midlands police force area. It is safe to say that the Home Secretary, a Member of Parliament who represents towns that surround a big city, is only too aware of the plight of towns. I absolutely hear the calls from my hon.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  17. “We recognise that the powers in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 do not currently go far enough, so we are putting that right by introducing respect orders in the Crime and Policing Bill, to help to ensure that our communities are free from harm. Under the new measures, persistent adult perpetrators of antisocial behaviour will face tough restrictions, including bans on entering the areas where they have behaved antisocially, such as town centres or other public places. On the questions my hon. Friend asked towards the end of her speech, in expecting the Policing Minister to respond to the debate and not me, I suspect she might have been more explicit in stating that Birmingham gets all the money in the west midlands. [ Interruption. ] I hear from a sedentary position that that feels true to other people.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  18. “We will establish a network of Young Futures hubs and prevention partnerships across England and Wales, to intervene earlier and to ensure that children and young people are offered support in a more systematic way, as well as creating more opportunities for young people in their communities through the provision of open access to mental health and careers support. My hon. Friend mentioned the trailblazers scheme. I, too, hope that it will come to Dudley and that the west midlands will be able to exhaust all the support we can. I cannot make her any promises about Sedgley library from the Dispatch Box, but I am with her in her campaign to maintain the library. My hon. Friend also talked about respect orders.”

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  19. “Young people were mentioned a number of times. I used to do some youth work in Upper Gornal, and I got really good at table tennis—I have lost the skills now, I am afraid to say. We understand that no single agency holds all the levers to tackle antisocial behaviour, and that effective multi-agency working is crucial. We are committed to intervening earlier to stop young people being drawn into crime, and an essential part of achieving that will be carried out through the Young Futures programme.”

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  20. “Friend also mentioned the need for hotspot policing. If we are to make preventing crime and antisocial behaviour a top priority, we have to put our money where our mouth is. That is why I was very impressed to hear about the great work being done through the hotspot action funding, such as deploying police and other uniformed presence to target areas with the hottest crimes in order to clamp down on antisocial behaviour and serious violence. As part of the Government’s plan for change, and to support making the country’s streets safer, £66.3 million has been available for hotspot policing action in 2025-26, and West Midlands police have been allocated £3.7 million of that funding. This will ensure an enhanced uniformed presence in the town centres and neighbourhoods across the country with the densest concentration of knife crime and ASB.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  21. “Giving offenders greater access to treatment services helps to break the underlying cause of their reoffending and increases public safety. We are committed to ensuring that anyone with a drug problem can access the help and support they need, and we recognise the need for evidence-based, high-quality treatment. The prevention of drug and alcohol-related harm is vital for saving lives and making our streets safer. As my hon. Friend said, this work will not be done by just the Home Office—it has to be a cross-Government endeavour—and the Department of Health and Social Care continues to invest in improvements to local treatment services for children and young people, and for adults with drug or alcohol problems, to ensure that those in need can access high-quality help and support. My hon.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  22. “We support the use of drug testing on arrest and out-of-court resolutions, to ensure that individuals who commit drug-related offences are given the opportunity to change their behaviour by diverting them to meaningful and appropriate interventions. The whole tone of the speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley was not about demonising some of those who might perpetrate such crimes, but about recognising that this is a societal problem that requires a multifaceted approach. Through the Crime and Policing Bill, we are taking forward proposals to expand both the trigger offences that can lead to a drugs test and the range of drugs that can be tested for—I was in the Bill Committee as we discussed that this morning. Beyond enforcement, we know that treatment works to reduce reoffending.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  23. “Half of crimes such as shoplifting and burglary are driven by drugs, which is why the Government are determined to crack down on ASB and drug misuse. The police have a critical role to play in cracking down on drug misuse and antisocial behaviour, and when individuals are found in possession of drugs, they must face appropriate sanctions. We are working with the police and the National Police Chiefs’ Council to support and increase voluntary referrals into treatment. We firmly believe that diverting those who use illegal drugs into interventions such as drug treatment services is the key to reducing drug misuse, drug-related crimes and reoffending.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  24. “I am sure that everybody here has heard the same complaints about kids and adults constantly smoking cannabis outside their houses. That is why tackling illegal drugs is key to delivering the Government’s mission to make our streets safer, to halve knife crime, to crack down on antisocial behaviour and to go after the gangs who are luring young people into violence and crime. We know from the crime survey for England and Wales that people using or dealing drugs is among the top three antisocial behaviour issues that people most commonly think is a problem in their area. I have been door-knocking in streets not too far away from Dudley where people were openly dealing drugs. For quite some time it has felt like there is no deterrent, and that has to change.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  25. “This not low level: it is incredibly serious. Antisocial behaviour eats away at people’s sense of security and local pride, and it needs to be dealt with as the serious threat that it is. For too long, the response has been weak and ineffective, and this Government are putting that right. The Prime Minister has placed safer streets at the heart of his plan for change. Through that mission, we are determined to address the scourge of antisocial behaviour. We are backing up our words with action, including by restoring and strengthening neighbourhood policing, which has been badly eroded in recent years. We are also introducing the respect orders mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley. My hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen (Alex Ballinger) mentioned cannabis.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  26. “We all know from our interactions with constituents that antisocial behaviour causes distress, concern and fear among residents, communities and businesses. It plagues town centres and neighbourhoods. It spoils people’s enjoyment of parks and other spaces. Let us get it right: antisocial behaviour is not low level, trivial or minor. To minimise it in that way is an insult to the many people who suffer every day as a result of the selfish actions of others. As a constituency Member of Parliament, I am not sure that anything is brought to me as much as antisocial behaviour. It could come from a neighbour—I especially like it when both neighbours come to me, although that is tricky to deal with at times—or from other people in the local community. This is genuinely a problem that can make people move out of their family homes.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  27. “Friend the Member for Dudley mentioned her support for some of the efforts in the Crime and Policing Bill; the Policing Minister will currently be on her feet in that Bill Committee, which is why I am here today and not her—it is not just because it is a midlands matter. Antisocial behaviour has a strong local dimension, which came through in various contributions from my hon. Friend and colleagues in neighbouring areas, and it manifests itself in different ways. I will come to specific points shortly, but before I do, I want to set out the national context, because it is such a widespread problem. We heard, as we so often do, from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who is no longer in his place, that this is a problem in Northern Ireland, as it is in Wales, the west midlands and everywhere.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  28. “It was the ’70s, Ms Furniss—things were different in the ’70s. He is fine, to be clear, but I like my mother’s direct action with antisocial behaviour, doling out immediate action to prevent it. I do not think he ever bit my brother again. My hon. Friend the Member for Dudley and others have powerfully set out how antisocial behaviour remains a constant menace in communities around the country. Whether in Dudley or anywhere else, it has a damaging effect on people and places, which is why we are pushing strongly to tackle it. I know this is an area of focus for the Minister for Policing and Crime Prevention, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham (Dame Diana Johnson). My hon.”

    House of Commons29 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  29. “It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Furniss—I always say that, but it actually is a pleasure. Let me start by thanking all the Members who have come today and contributed. I am especially grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley (Sonia Kumar) for securing the debate. As a fellow midlands MP, I am delighted that her constituents have someone fighting so diligently on their behalf. Just because I have a bit of time, I have a good Dudley-related antisocial behaviour story from my childhood—or rather, from the ’70s, before I was born. My mum and dad lived in the Black Country at the time. When the younger of my two older brothers bit my elder brother, my mum said that if he was going to behave like an animal, he would have to go with them, and she drove him to Dudley zoo and left him there.”

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  30. “Members should be careful about what they are promising can be achieved.”

    House of Commons28 April 2025Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  31. “We are moving ahead with that commitment, and we have confirmed that funding will be made available to Oldham council as part of this work. We are currently working with a range of experts to develop a best practice local inquiries framework, so that local areas that conduct inquiries do so in a way that actually delivers justice, accountability and truth, commanding the support of victims and survivors. Our focus is on delivering meaningful, tangible change for victims and survivors. That means delivering on the key recommendations of Professor Jay’s national inquiry, getting perpetrators behind bars and, most importantly of all, protecting children today.”

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  32. “The Home Secretary and I have always been clear that the first priority in tackling this heinous offending is getting perpetrators behind bars, and getting justice for the victims and survivors. That is why all police forces in England and Wales have been asked to review historical grooming gangs investigations that were closed with no further action, and to pursue new lines of inquiry and reopen investigations where appropriate. We are also going further than ever before to support local areas to hold independent local inquiries, which can drive action and accountability at a local level. That is what inquiries in Telford, Manchester and Rotherham have delivered effectively, and that is the approach we would like to see rolled out elsewhere. In January, we said that we would support five local inquiries.”

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  33. “This Government are determined to get to the truth of both historical and current grooming gangs, to ensure that perpetrators are punished and to deliver justice and accountability for victims and survivors. That is why we are pressing ahead with the key recommendations of the independent inquiry, including the mandatory duty to report. Baroness Casey, who conducted a no-holds-barred review into grooming gangs’ offending in Rotherham, is currently overseeing a national audit of group-based child sexual exploitation and abuse. The audit will identify what further work is needed. It is looking at the scale, nature and profile of group-based abuse, including the characteristics of offenders. It will conclude in the coming weeks, and I have already committed to publishing the findings.”

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  34. “The shadow Home Secretary was away when I updated the House on the Government’s response to the independent national inquiry into child sexual abuse, and on the action that we are taking to investigate and tackle child grooming gangs across the country. As I have said many times, people up and down this country are understandably horrified by the appalling crimes committed by despicable grooming gangs. Children were subjected to the most unthinkable sexual violence. Frontline services, local authorities and elected politicians turned away or even blamed the children, rather than their rapists. I know this because I speak to victims week in, week out, and I have done so for decades.”

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  35. “I have been trying to change things on the ground all my life, since the very first time I met a girl who had been ignored. I will continue to do that, and do what is right for the victims.”

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  36. “I thank the shadow Home Secretary. I do not need to read out the things found in other local inquiries to know, because I speak to the victims. I spoke to some of the victims of grooming gangs this morning, and I will speak to some more tomorrow. I have spoken to them from Oxford, from Birmingham, from Rochdale, from Rotherham and from Oldham. I know exactly the issue of the cover-up, as does everybody already, because of the many local inquiries that have told us this happened and the national inquiry that has told us there were cover-ups. What we must focus on is making sure, as happened in Telford, that there is a local process of accountability that actually changes things on the ground, and that is what I will do.”

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  37. “I absolutely agree that action is what is needed, which is exactly why the Home Secretary has written to all police forces in England and Wales seeking to ensure that more arrests are made in these cases. The grooming gangs taskforce has in the past nine months made 597 arrests, surpassing the entire previous year, because we are so heavily focused on ensuring that these people end up behind bars. I think Professor Jay was ignored by the previous Government, and had we had mandatory reporting 10 years ago, when the current Home Secretary asked for it, perhaps more people would have been held accountable.”

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  38. “I thank the hon. Lady, and I agree with her that inquiries are only worth anything if we crack on. That is why, when I came to this House before the recess, I said it would go alongside the publishing of an action plan on the recommendations of the Jay report and Jay’s work into grooming gangs. That has all been published as part of a Government plan, but it is only the beginning. Actually, this is going to take years and years. On the duty of candour, it seems appalling that we have to ask people to tell the truth, yet here we are. Of course, that is what we must be striving for, as the hon. Lady says, on behalf of the victims and survivors.”

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  39. “Yes. As was outlined in Professor Alexis Jay’s report, the need for an overreaching authority to ensure accountability across the child protection system was made very clear. As we roll out the new authority, we are consulting many experts on what exactly it needs to look like and ensuring that we get the very best possible. I am sick of hearing lessons learned in a serious case review about a child rape, a child rape gang or a child death. There needs to be genuine accountability and things need to change.”

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  40. “I will answer the question of when. The framework for what local authorities will be tasked with will be released later in May, as will Baroness Casey’s review, which I have committed to publishing. All those things will be dependent on each other. I cannot stand here and say exactly what that will look like, because I do not know what Baroness Casey will say about any particular area and what I might need to focus on. I will go on the basis of facts—something that does not happen very often in this debate, I have to say. I will follow the facts; wherever they tell me that there are victims who need help, that is where I will go.”

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  41. “As my hon. Friend points out, I have spoken to and worked with victims of crime for many years. What they want, fundamentally, is for the things that happened to them not to happen to children today. That is the change they wish to see more than anything—more than they want any sort of justice. Ensuring that the new authority does that, and that it is not just words on paper, will therefore be absolutely vital and will deliver that fundamental victims’ need. When we consult experts on the child protection authority, we will ensure that organisations such as the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, which has panels of specialist victims groups to assist its work, will be part of that.”

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  42. “Once again, I praise the hon. Gentleman for raising this issue over a number of years; others have come to it more recently. We have a meeting in our diary, so I will make him an offer: I would very much like to meet the victims he is talking about. I will gladly sit down with them. I want the hon. Gentleman to know that he has my guarantee that, if in the work Baroness Casey is doing around problem profiling and police forces across the country local authorities are found to have problems, I will pursue them.”

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  43. “I agree with every one of the asks of that sexual assault referral centre. I am working closely with the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), to try to do all those things. Unfortunately, we cannot mend a very broken system overnight. It is very important for me to say, though, that the cases of grooming gangs that I have come across are horrible—some of the worst I have ever seen—yet sometimes we forget how harrowing it is for children who have been raped by their fathers, their stepfathers or people in children’s institutions. There is no hierarchy; they all deserve our love, care and dedication to taking action for them.”

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  44. “That does not deserve a response—and I actually quite like the hon. Gentleman. I have spent my entire career helping— [ Interruption. ] I wonder how many victims of grooming gangs he has sat and held hands with in court, and for how many he has gone round to their house in the morning to get them out of bed to get them into a courtroom. There is no way that I would be part of any cover-up. I will do everything I can, under a Home Secretary who will do everything she can, to ensure that those who are responsible are held accountable.”

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  45. “My hon. Friend raises an important point. We often talk about historic cover-ups and failings, but we must also keep our eye on exactly where grooming is going on now and will take place in the future. She points out, completely rightly, that there is an ongoing grooming issue. Through the taskforce and work with various security departments, I have seen great examples of quite how focused police enforcement is on that. Do I think that social media companies could be doing more? The answer will always be yes.”

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  46. “As I said, I will consider the situation as it unfolds. What I would say is with the amount of money that the Government are allocating for local inquiries— [ Interruption. ] From a sedentary position, the shadow Home Secretary said, “It’s not enough,” but it is millions more than the zero that the previous Government allocated. When Oldham and Telford wrote to the previous Government to ask for help, answer came there none. I will follow the leads that are left for me.”

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  47. “Absolutely, and I say with the voice of the victims I have worked with over the years and have spoken to even today that the fundamental that they want is that children who come forward today—to their teacher, their social worker or whoever it is—do not suffer as they did. Keeping our eye on making sure that people are held accountable for the past will deliver justice only if we also look at the now.”

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  48. “I absolutely agree. I remember working in a Rape Crisis centre when the Jimmy Savile scandal was revealed and it was like being hit by a tsunami—the phone lines lit up. As I said before Easter in response to the Jay inquiry, making sure that we have robust mental health support for children who are victims is really important. I also announced that the Home Office would double the amount of money it provides for adult historic rape victims, in recognition that we may bring more people forward and therefore need to improve access to support.”

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  49. “Absolutely. There are systemic problems with how women and girls are treated, and sometimes cover-ups are ignored. I am afraid to say that there is still a cultural sense of women feeling that they will not be believed if they come forward. We have to look fundamentally at all the systems across Government, which is what I and my colleague, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), who is leading on the violence against women and girls strategy, will do.”

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  50. “I appreciate that that is where the whole story began for the hon. Gentleman, but it is not where the whole story began. Oldham council had written, I believe, twice before to the previous Government—”

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