YouSaid · the spoken record

Jordan B. Peterson

lines on the record: 172
first: 2025-01-13
most recent: 2025-01-13
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Joker Willing told me this, you know, Jocko said that he could have easily been like a gang leader, criminal type. He's tough, warrior character, you know. And he said when he went into the military, he discovered that being the leader of a team and moving people in a positive direction, there wasn't anything better than that. And so that just straightened him out, you know, and I feel exactly the same way. There isn't anything better than that. And so I'm able to do that. I see the evidence of that all the time. And whatever misunderstandings there might be about me necessary or unnecessary are so trivial compared to that that they don't even really register.”
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“I don't know if I am misunderstood. I think the people who don't like me. Some of them have me confused with some figment of their imagination. Some of the people who don't like me they understand me. They just don't like what they understand. They don't like what it implies. And so that's okay with me. I don't feel misunderstood, I wouldn't say. I've got nothing to complain about. People who've been listening to me, they understand me, and as far as I can tell, that's been very good for them. And that's unbelievably gratifying for me. You must experience that. I mean, your podcast has had a broad effect. And I presume a positive effect on people. There isn't anything better than that to see that what you're doing has that broadly salutary effect. That's great. That's another indication of our essentially, I would say, religious nature.”
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“My mother was a very hospitable person, and And in the Old Testament accounts, hospitality is a cardinal virtue. And she was very good at making people welcome. The day my mother died, I thought about her most of the day that day. Memories came to mind. And one of the things I realized about my mother was that I don't have a single negative memory of my mother. Really quite something to know someone for sixty two years. And really I really don't have a negative memory of my mother. I don't remember anything. Time where she acted in She was a good person, my mother. I could always make her laugh. She had a very good sense of humor. I appreciated that a lot. And she, although she was a very agreeable person and a very feminine person, she was tough too. And she wasn't an edible type. Know she had strong protective instincts, but her.”
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“Yes, yes, I don't think they're. My dad and I have sorted out our differences a long time ago. when I left home. Our relationship was somewhat fractious from the time I was thirteen till the time I left home. He developed quite a severe depression, which ran in my family, and that made him. Harder to understand than had been the case previously. It also made the probability that if there were any Events in the household that they would be they'd have more. Reverberation than they would have otherwise. And that was confusing to me. I understood why that happened later, not much later, and it wasn't very long after I left home that whatever difference. So we didn't really have. Unresolved issues, I wouldn't say.”
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“Pay He was good at that he was good at he taught that very well. And it wasn't a good idea to not pay attention on my father. He had a wouldn't describe him as an easy person. He had high standards, and he was rather unforgiving, and that's the I don't know, do you forgive the people that you love for not being everything they could be? That's a hard question. It's okay, dear. It's like, is it now? I think we have a lot of that in our culture. It's okay. I like you just like you are”
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“It isn't that her brother substituted for her father, but it was that there was more there than she had made use of, and so when her father departed, she The possibility of expanding that relationship with her brother was on the table. And I did the same thing with my sister and my brother. That's helpful. It's helpful. So there's opportunity everywhere, even in grief there's opportunity.”
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“Things last way less long than you think So you should be aware of that and not take things for granted. And so, and I don't think I took my parents for granted. Now, did I do that perfectly? Well, we don't do things perfectly, but It was pretty good It was pretty I learned when I watched my wife's family go through the death of their mother, and one of the consequences of that was that My wife and her siblings and her father pulled closer together during that time, and that really it was like a wound healing, you know? And so I saw that and I saw that that worked. So for example, Tammy said. Has a stronger relationship with her older brother than she did before. Her father also died, so we lost her father and my father and my mother this year basically.”
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“I'm on a journey. It's a real journey. It's not an act. I pose a question to myself before I go on stage. It's a question I want the answer to and I don't have, and I go on stage and I try to move towards the answer. And people come along and pass. I want to go there and they want to come along. It's a good deal. And the podcasts are like that if you're doing them honestly. It's like I want to talk to this person. That's a really nice way.”
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“The value we're talking about a kind of ultimate scarcity. And like you can ask yourself, one of the fundamental questions you can ask yourself is. What is the nature of the real? And I think death makes things real.”
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“There's no, fundamentally, there cannot be any separation there. Yeah, and when you said you've experienced that, it's like, that's what gives you, that's part of what gives you a foundation. It's like, yeah, that's not illusory.”
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“Which is something you don't have to worry about when no one knows who you are And it's very dangerous to worry about your reputation. As soon as you start worrying about your reputation as a podcaster, you're going to fail. You're not interesting then, you'll stop taking risks. So then, you know, another question emerges you got people yelling at you from this side and this side, well, how do you know what's right? Well, it isn't. Partly it's by listening because you want to pay attention to your audience, but there's something guiding you if you do what you're doing properly that has nothing to do with the clamor.”
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“Well, you know some of it. We talked about some of it. You know, you said that you can. You can apprehend the outline of some of the principles. Some of that you probably discovered as you went along rather than putting them in place to begin with.”
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“Well, there's something you're doing that's working. There's something about the way you're approaching the situation that's of broad appeal. There's some archetypal pattern that's... You're acting out in your conduct, in your podcast, because otherwise it wouldn't have the effect it has.”
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“That's different than the enthusiastic joy that you might think about that's part and parcel of a child's laughter. You want to be happy. What do you want to be laughing all the time? Is that what you're saying? Well, no, that's not what I mean. Well, what do you mean? Do you mean the gratification that comes along with the cookie at one in the morning? No, that's not what I mean. Well, okay, what do you mean? Well, I don't know. It's like, yeah, you don't know. Partly what you mean is you don't want pointless suffering. Fair enough, you know, fair enough. But that doesn't mean it's happiness that's your goal. I don't think that's your goal. I don't think your podcast would be successful if that was your goal. I think you would have washed up on the shoals of triviality long ago. I do, think.”
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“Because life is very wide You know, there's The peaks and valleys are Very distant from one another And I don't know, maybe as you ascend uphill, your understanding of the Chasm between the peaks and valleys also increases. You know, because you think maybe as you're successful, you're happier. Well, First of all, I'm not sure that success and happiness are the same thing. I'm not sure that we want them to be the same thing. I don't even know what people mean when they say they want to be happy. If you investigate it, technically you find out that really what people mean when they say they want to be happy is that they don't want to suffer.”
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“Well so then what happens in consequence of that? Well, I think what happens in consequence of that is what happened to Abraham Your life just goes like this. Opens and opens and opens and opens. I don't think there's any limit to that. And that's ridiculously entertaining. Like unbearably entertaining. There's what you want your life. You want it to be unbearably entertaining. And it's funny, you know, when you watch people go to movies, I mean. James Bond, right? That's an unbearably entertaining life. And that's what people want to see when they go to a theater because that's what they want. That's what they want. And maybe all the sorrow and catastrophe that's part of that has to be part of it because otherwise there's. There's nothing about it that's glorious.”
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“That's how you fight it. And that means you do that in your own life. You just stop just. You practice stopping. You practice not doing the things you know you shouldn't do. You practice paying attention to your words to see if they're landing solidly and they make you confident instead of weak, right? You abandon yourself. Short Desire for control and power, understanding that there isn't anything better that can happen to you than what happens if you tell the truth. No matter what it looks like to you in the moment, it's a strange thing, but I can't see how it could be otherwise because you'd have to hypothesize that you're going to align yourself with life, with nature, with society, with God, with yourself, by lying. No one believes that. You might think you can get away with it. That's way different, right? But no one believes that.”
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“The villain's on a quest of sorts, you know, a committed villain can learn. That's another thing, too. What are we built for? I think we're built for maximal challenge. And that's way more interesting. I mean, one of the things that See, I figured out that lies. Totalitarian states were a consequence of lies in about nineteen eighty five. I really figured it out. I'd been reading Solzhenits and then Carl Jung. I've been reading, I was reading a lot. I was reading obsessed by it. I thought, oh, I see. So hell is the dominion of the lie. Okay, so what do you do about that? Well, you stop lying.”
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“I don't know if an adventure is fair. I don't even know if that's what we want. Like, this is something I really came to understand more deeply when writing this book. What are we built for? Built for maximal challenge. And that isn't the way we view ourselves in the modern world. We view ourselves as built for pleasure, you know, pornography. We view ourselves as built for consumption or for safety or for Or for maybe for egotistical self-aggrandizement and fame. Those Look, many, all of those things are better than their absence, let's say. You know, I think part of the reason that Andrew Tate is so popular among young men, because it's better to be a successful reprobate than a useless scrounger. Seriously, I mean, seriously. That's why the villain instructed. Right, at least the villain is out there doing villain things, you know, but”
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“I think generally if you love someone it's worse to see them suffer than to suffer yourself. You certainly figure that out when you have kids.”
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“Was terrible and yeah, I mean I thought what was the desperation? It wasn't even the pain. It was the fact that I was in such terrible shape that I felt that I was felt, I believed, that I was a burden to everyone around me and that that was only likely to get worse. And I thought, what's the sense in this? What's the possible significance of this? So yes, everyone's faith is challenged in Christ himself cries in despair out to God on the cross, and the story wouldn't be believable without that. Like, if you're going to live, you're going to be pushed past your limit. If you're going to live. So But who knows what you discover when you push past your limit?”
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“Oh yeah, well, and I was in extreme pain for three years. I went through three years where every minute of my life was worse than any minute I had ever had previous to that. It was terrible. And did I lose faith? Was it question, challenged? Absolutely. Absolutely It just became absurd. It was absurd so many things had gone off the rails. My wife was dying, my daughter was ill I was tired. If things had blown up around me in fifty different ways, and I was like seriously in pain, was terrible. I was walking like twelve miles a day because I couldn't sit. I did that for months. Winter, rain whenever I'd a friend who walked with me.”
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“And I can't see how that can be otherwise because the contrary hypothesis would be that you would adapt best to your life by avoiding things that are difficult and terrifying. And no one believes that. And so the pattern of the passion, this is the voluntary self-sacrifice issue taken to its extreme. The pattern of the passion is the decision to voluntarily confront and welcome anything that happens to you. No matter what it is, and That's a terrible thing to ask or endeavor to. Undertake, but While the alternative is to shrink away. Well, the spirit of shrinking away is the divine. It's like, I don't think so. That's preposterous The spirit of unlimited courage Well, that's not a bad start for a definition of what constitutes the divine. The highest possible value.”
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“Yeah. I think if you understand what that means, that it's indisputable. I'll give you a brief Explanation of why Christ takes the sins of the world unto himself. That means all the problems that there are are his problems. Right. Okay, so The idea there is that there's no difference between making that assumption and then actually beginning to address those problems. And there's no difference between that which best addresses the problems of mankind and That and the divine those are the same thing.”
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“I think that the claim that Christ is the embodiment of the prophet and the laws, I think that's true. That's complicated. It's very, very complicated. But I think it's true.”
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“It's all about power. It's like, first of all, that's probably a confession if that's what you believe. And second, no, it's not. Try tyrannizing your wife and see how well that works for you. Try tyrannizing yourself and see how successful you are. Power's not the game. Okay, what's the game? What's the story? I mentioned earlier. It's voluntary, self sacrifice. Right, you offer yourself up in the service of something higher. That's the basis of society. That's the basis of psychological stability. The Christian insistence is that that's the basis of the world.”
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“Self-gratification. There's Michelle Foucault for you to a T. It's like, why is that wrong? Why can't people just do what they want with whoever they want all the time? Because it defeats itself and quickly. It's not a sustainable game. If it's all about you and your whims, I don't want to be anywhere near you. And that won't be so good for you. That's not going to work. Power. That's really where the postmodernists landed with their what would you say temptation to turn towards Marx?”
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“I did say I mentioned something which we skipped over very quickly because I introduced it too rapidly. Postmodernists figured out that we live in a story, but then they leapt to a faulty conclusion of two forms, well three. There's no uniting story, that was one of their conclusions. In fact, the definition of postmodernism is skepticism of meta-narratives. There's no uniting story. Well, that's a stupid theory because there's no union, so what? There's just diversity. Well, we worship diversity now in this utterly foolish manner. There's no difference between diversity and war. Without a uniting narrative there's nothing but war So no, that's not gonna work wrong.”
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“While there isn't anything more complex in the known universe than a human brain. So, if you want to model for Reality as such, like proclaiming that it has something akin to the structure of the human psyche is not an absurd claim, given that that is the most complex thing by far that we know of, by far.”
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“Does it reflect a deeper underlying reality? Yes How deep is that underlying? Well, let's say, okay, it's a story about the psyche. Then let's say, well, no, it's a story about the psyche in society. Okay, so no. It's a story about the psyche in society in the natural world. Well, what's underneath that? The source of nature society and the psyche.”
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“Well, not at all, because we're high investment reproducers. Sex just gets the ball rolling. So here's a question. How would you have to act to maximally ensure the survival of your offspring? Okay, so now. What do you mean survival? Do you mean? Your son lives? Do you mean that your grandson lives? Do you mean that twenty generations down the road from you? The pattern that you represented is still propagating itself successfully? Does it mean that the people that you produce are able to take on all challengers because of the manner in which they conduct themselves? That's a lot more complicated than just sex, like way more complicated. So the pattern that Abraham is the father of nations, right? There's an insistence in the story that the manner in which he conducts himself. As a hero, establishes the pattern”
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“Yeah, but even reproduction is see, this is, I think, where Dawkins went dreadfully wrong. Sex and reproduction aren't the same thing for people.”
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“Okay, that makes them mature. But then he also does that in a way that serves his wife and his family and his community. So his self is balanced and optimized across those parameters. That makes him. Secure in his foundation and properly oriented. If you're secure in your foundation and properly oriented upward, then There's no difference between the voice of the divine and the instinct for the instinct that preserves you in times of trouble. But you see, you can't exactly get there by the mere bottom-up materialistic notion because you could think about the fear that guides Noah as an instinct. But the instinct is pathological unless it exists in this wider moral framework. Because then you could have the fear of a coward. Oh that's not helpful.”
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“Negative emotion, anxiety, but it's more than that because it's You can be afraid of something that isn't real. Now you might have to ask yourself okay, what are the preconditions for your fear? To the validity of your fear. So you're afraid and you should be Well, let's say that's the characteristic of someone who's wise. So then the question is well, what's the essence of the wisdom that makes your fear valid? Noah is described in the story of Noah as a man wise in his generations. So that means that by the moral standards of his time, he's an upstanding human being. Okay, so now you can imagine that means he exists in harmonious relationship with his present self and his future self.”
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“Okay, here's one way of thinking about it. So I mentioned that in the story of Abraham, God is the call to adventure. That's the definition. Now, The divine that's put forward in this library of stories has multiple characteristics. He's characterized in many ways, but there's an insistence that that reflects an underlying unity. Now, the unity is incomprehensible in its essence. So you have to accept that as the initial starting point. You're not going to get the answer Okay, you can see something complex from a variety of different perspectives. Okay, in the story of Noah, God is the impulse that comes to the wise to prepare for the When trouble's brewing Okay, now, okay, so now you can think of that as an instinct. You can think about it as...”
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“You can think about it as rising up from the material world or descending from on heaven. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter fundamentally. It's the same. It doesn't matter. Those are different ways of looking at the same problem.”
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“Some degree There's an overlap because you can dog understands you and vice versa. So that's a good question. Social mammals understand each other Right, so there's an overlap in their deepest instincts or their highest impulses. You can think about that both ways.”
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“Both. It's both. It's both. It emerges as a consequence of the constraints of social interaction? Let's say like there's constraints, for example, on what makes a man desirable to a woman. That has nothing to do with you constraints. Those are there. They're there in the Society of women They're eternal. There's not no woman she might vary in her opinion to some degree but she partakes of the pattern. So it's there. Now it's also built into you because you're a social creature and so your physiology is Indicates to you the nature of that pattern.”
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“Now, is that a useful answer? Well, it's a short answer, so it's useful in that it's short. It begs the question, what do you mean by God? We could return to that. In the story of Abraham, these are definitions. Because if you're going to talk about what's property put in the highest place, you have to know what you're talking about. Okay, in the story of Abraham, the voice of adventure is to be put in this place. And if you follow that, then you become the father of nations. That's reproductive success. Right. So that means the idea is that there's an alignment between the instinct that calls you to adventure and the probability that you'll be attractive to women in the manner that ensures the survival of your descendants.”
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“Well, clarity is part of it. We want to make things as clear as possible. Breadth of coverage. I mean, people ask me what I believe and I say, well, I'm not hiding what I believe. I'm like, I lecture about it. I podcast about it. I write about it. It's like, that's what I believe. There it is. Is there obfuscation in that? Well, some partly things are complicated, so it's very difficult to give short answers to complex questions. You tend to give, if you give short answers to complex questions, the answers tend to be symbolic. You have to say something like, where do they come from? It's like, well, they come from God.”
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“Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing. You're looking at the same problem from two different perspectives. It's and. Yes, they're handed down from on high. Yes, they're instincts.”
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“Now then imagine it's even worse though because to get along with your wife she has to want to play the game you want to play but both of you have to play a game that works today and tomorrow and next week, next month, next year, right? And then you have to play it with your kids and your parents and a bunch of other people.”
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“People want to play. And then there's even a smaller number of games that sustain themselves and improve as you play them. Okay, so that's like a landscape. You can think about it as a landscape of potential patterns of interaction. You could even think about it as a landscape of potential tribal affiliations The rules of those games would be the principles of the society. Okay, now the question is, could we come up with our own set of rules? And the answer to that is no. The sustainable, abundant playability of a game is. Not arbitrary. So, for example, if you want to get along with your wife, She has to want to play the game you're playing. Okay, now there's lots of games you can play that aren't going to fit that criteria.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's a great question. Well, this is what Nietzsche basically presupposed in some ways. So when Nietzsche observed that God had died, say in eighteen fifty or thereabouts, his medication for that, his warning was we'll descend into nihilism and communist totalitarianism. And that was exactly right. May be a mindless hedonism in there too. Dostevsky concentrated more on that. Nietzsche said we'll have to create our own values, we'll have to become that's what the Superman is, the Nietzschean Superman, the man who creates his own values. See what happens. You can't do it. You can't create your own values because values are real. They're not arbitrary. They're not relativistic. So imagine this. Imagine there's a very large number of games that could be played, like an infinitely large number. But there's a very small number of games that”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's not right Actually they were wrong, their theory of perception was wrong. They're wrong. We see the world through a story. We do not see the world as a collection of facts. They're wrong. You see, the postmodernists figured this out, and that's why The postmodernist had a walloping influence on culture. Now I'm no fan of the postmodernists for a variety of reasons, but their insistence that we see the world through a story? They're right. That's right.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think exhausted is a better word because it wasn't like the Enlightenment was without its benefits. When you say the enlightenment technological progress.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, definitely. Definitely. Well, it's partly because. The Enlightenment has exhausted itself. Partly because it was wrong.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, that's exactly why I wrote this book, because I know that that's the time. And it's not just the time for you. That's the time. We're in.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, if you go you were a sperm at one point. I mean, it's not that implausible. We all come from single-celled organisms.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I had a rule for this book I didn't make any claims about the biblical stories that I couldn't justify scientifically. I don't think there's a conflict. I think that viewing the biblical stories as an amalgam of superstitious proto-scientific theories is absurd. I don't think there's any evidence for that at all. These are stories. Stories and scientific hypotheses aren't the same thing. The Lord of the Rings is not a scientific hypothesis, but that doesn't mean it's not true.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT