YouSaid · the spoken record

Jordan B. Peterson

lines on the record: 172
first: 2025-01-13
most recent: 2025-01-13
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“But I'm not trying to be a smart Alec in that response. It's a complicated. Answer. It's a complicated answer. I think that we're guided by the spirit of meaning. I think that's also our deepest instinct.”
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“Oh, there's a huge overlap between the Greco, the Greek philosophical tradition and the Christian tradition. Western culture is the amalgamation of Greece, Jerusalem, and Rome, and the early Christians saw tremendous parallels between Christian theology and Greek philosophy.”
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“Well, okay, let's take that claim apart. I mean, yes, it is stories that people came up with thousands of years ago, but no definitely not one person's opinion, definitely a hundred percent not, because these stories have been transmitted over millennia and organized and edited and transformed by a very large number of people. So it's at minimum, it's a massive collective effort. And it's a collective effort undertaken by arguably the most literate and intelligent people there are. And that'd be the Jews.”
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“You have that adventure, and you have to change as a consequence of it. You have to give up your immaturity so that you can take advantage of this new opportunity. Okay, and that changes you. Now you're a slightly different person. Now a new horizon of opportunity opens up. You have to make a sacrifice. It's like, okay, looks like if I'm going to do this, I can no longer afford this. Abraham changes so dramatically that he gets a new name. He starts as Abraham, and he ends as Abraham. Abraham is the father of nations. So what's the moral? If you pursue the spirit of adventure and make the proper sacrifices, you become the father of nations. Right, that's true.”
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“Okay, so now let's think about this a little bit. So the God that's the voice of adventure is the God of the forefathers of Abraham, the father. He's a patriarchal spirit. Okay, if you're a good father, you speak with the voice of adventure to your sons. Obviously. You're encouraging them. It's like get the hell out there, you know, make something of yourself. Why do you do that? Because you have this little kid and you think. Get at it, man, he said. Let's see what you can be. And so that's that voice of the benevolent father, and that's the spirit of the ancestors. And behind that there's the God who's the voice of adventure. If you pursue the spirit of adventure, There will be things you have to give up. Right, you know that. I mean, you know.”
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“That's part of it. That would be the more structured part, the more traditional part. You need the traditional stories That's why I wrote this book to indicate, well, at least in part what the stories are and also what they mean. It's not only that. It's not only what they mean. It's how knowing what they mean changes your life. So for example, in the story of Abraham. God comes to Abraham. Okay, now Questions emerged from that statement What do you mean God and how does he come to Abraham? What the hell does that mean? Well, the story lays that out. The god that comes to Abraham is the voice of adventure. It's a definition This is a good thing to do. God is the voice of adventure.”
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“Well, these are hard things to do on your own, right? I mean, you only have the span of your life and the probability that you can figure out how to live merely as a consequence of consulting your own limited experience is zero. It's too complicated. Sometimes”
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“Well, that's one of the things you can realize, certainly, that That also you don't exactly know where the limits are it's like all I exceeded that it's like okay well now what? What's the upward limit to exceed what's the upward arc of exceeding limits? That's Jacob's ladder. I would say this is the promise of the kingdom of God. That's one way of thinking about it. There's no upward limit. There's no limit how bad things can get. No one would deny that who has any sense So that means in a way that hell exists. You can find your way there with no problem.”
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“You have to develop an opinion of yourself the same way you would develop an opinion of someone else. So now, and I'm not hypothesizing about this, by the way. We know this clinically. If I want to truly help you build your confidence rather than merely readjusting the words you say about yourself, which would be something like self-esteem, which is something that doesn't even exist, by the way, it's just a pathological concept altogether. You want confidence, okay, more to the point. You want the confidence that's based in competence. Otherwise, it's narcissistic. Okay, so how do you develop that? Well, you watch yourself exceed your limits. And then you think, oh, look at that, there's something in me that can exceed my limits. That's your true self. That's a good way of thinking about it.”
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“Well, look, if you see someone, a friend, who is continually incrementally improving, you're going to, well, maybe you'll be jealous and resentful and bitter and miserable and try to undermine him, but assuming you're not like completely encapsulated by dark forces, you'll think, oh, that's admirable. Well, you see the same thing in yourself. You have to act”
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“Because you want to grow. I mean, look, if you love a child, you love the child for who he is and who he could be. And you want to. Indicate your love for both of those. I think if you're a father, you tilt even more towards love for who the child could be.”
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“Take, I would say, take the step that you can take, that you will take that actually feels like some accomplishment. Imagine you're dealing with a three-year-old kid and you want to encourage him. You want to set him a task that you don't want him to say, Dad, I could do that when I was two, right? But you don't want to set him a task that there's not a chance he'll manage. You want to set him a task that will stretch him beyond where he is, that has a reasonable probability of success, right?”
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“Uplill is better than downhill. And there's a doctrine in the Gospels that Christ puts forward, which is very interesting. He says it's the Matthew principle it's called, to those who have everything more will be given. Those who have nothing everything will be taken. So Regression That's one model. Here's another one. Progress. Regression This is the right model. So even if you have to start small, you accrue success exponentially, you accrue defeat exponentially too. That's the abyss that is hell. You start going downhill, you go downhill faster and faster. Start going uphill. You go uphill faster and faster. So even if you have to start small or even painfully small, which is highly probable, especially if you're trying to tackle something that's really plagued you, doesn't really matter.”
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“Now, if you can find a big thing, good, but obviously you haven't been able to because all these problems exist. So see, One of the emphasis in the religious realm, let's say, is humility, one of the things that's emphasized. Well, what's humility? What's the opposite of pride? Well, humility is starting where you are That's what humility is, and it's annoying because if your life is a mess, then you have to see that you're the person in that mess, and then you have to understand that your first Attempt to redress the mass might not be something you're particularly proud of, you know? I mean, I saw this Lawrence in my clinical practice where people would, the first steps they had to take to put things in order were pretty embarrassing. It's like, really, that's all I can do? Hey, man.”
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“You meet you can't start on the porn side then, you know, like my, this is. How a good behavior analyst approaches problems of that sort. It's like Okay. Is there something in your life that you know is not right that you could improve, that you would improve? Any step whatsoever. While generally you can just ask yourself that question. It's like it's a contemplative exercise. Sit on the edge of your bed and think okay Where is my life off kilter? So then you have a variety of ideas about how. Yeah, okay, okay. My mom.”
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“You said that you have these principles and that you're trying to learn. And so your attention's pretty focused. And then you bring all that to bear in the moment, right? And then people find that compelling because they're along for the ride. Long for the adventure, and that is meaningful. It's the essence of meaningful. And so what we were trying to address was the relationship between hedonism and say intelligent long-term pro-social strategy. You want them both. There's an optimized... Solution that delivers both far better than any other solution. This is the pearl of great price that Christ speaks about, that anyone wise and wealthy would sell everything they own to purchase. There isn't anything better than that.”
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“It's there. Okay, so back to the sermon on the mount because we were talking about orientation. So aim up. Assume that other people have the same value as you do, and that value is associated with whatever's divine. Then concentrate on the moment. Right. So the most distant possible upward aim with the most intense possible concentration on the moment. Right. You're good at that. I can't say that's what's made you successful, but it's certainly part of it because You pay attention. See, that's what paying attention means because you want your intent to be focused, because otherwise your attention is fragmented. So you want your attention to be focused. Now your attention is focused on something. Now we pulled it apart a little bit.”
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“Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Joe's on a quest. He's trying to be smarter than he is. That's what Joe does. It's curiosity that's driving him. This is what Musk said too about himself. That he said that to me when I interviewed him, he said that was how he reconciled. He had a terrible existential crisis when he was like thirteen. And he reconciled that essentially with the quest. He decided that he could just pursue truth, pursue knowledge, pursue understanding, and that's meaningful intrinsically and valuable intrinsically. And that's the beginnings of a religious orientation, or more than the beginnings even, because the quest is a religious pursuit. It's pursuit of the truth. It's pursuit of the treasure that the dragon guards. And so treasures and dragons, they're always in the same place. It's very annoying.”
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“Yeah, well, that is that quest. And what people want in a discussion is a quest. They want to see bloodhounds on the trail towards some truth. That's what they're after. They want to participate in that. Same with the public lectures I do. I'm always trying to answer a question. I don't know what the answer is when I go on stage. It's a real question.”
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“Demoralizing, it's like I think I'm better than you because that's exactly exactly that's right. You don't want to, you definitely don't want to do that in a podcast. Journalists, the pathological journalists, that's all they do. All they're doing is establishing moral superiority. On the flimsiest possible grounds, at the least possible cost in the most spectacular way. Yeah, it's really not being.”
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“People say I'm not judgmental. It's like that's not a virtue. You want to use I could judge you so I don't ever have to listen to you about anything.”
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“Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's only one thing I would take issue with. You said that you don't judge. See, I would say probably you don't condemn. You have to judge because you have to listen and you have to separate wheat from chaff. You have to evaluate. But you can do that without. Careless condemnation or a priori What would you say? Like a tyrannical insists that what you know now is sufficient.”
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“All things considered for me now, for me now in a way that works tomorrow, for me now in a way that works tomorrow and next week and next month and next year and five years from now and ten years from now in relationship to my wife, in relationship to my kids, to my parents, to my community, right? It's that whole identity. You're optimizing that. Now, you might not know how, but that's your aim. Okay, so that's the injunction to put the love of God above all else, to aim at what's highest. Now, you don't exactly know how to do that, but that doesn't matter. You can specify your aim, right? Now, no doubt you do something like that with your podcast. Right. That's why it's successful. Yeah. Okay. You agree with that.”
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“But every note is also worthwhile. Well, that's what you want to balance your concentration on the present with your apprehension of the medium to long run. So I'll give you an example of that. So I did a course for Peterson Academy called, It's on the Sermon on the Mount. And the Sermon on the Mount is the longest record we have of Christ's direct utterances, let's say. constitutes the core of Christian ethics. It's a set of instructions, and the instructions are very specific. So essentially the instruction is to aim at every moment at what's highest. Okay, so this is something you have to practice. The idea is that at each moment you're bringing to bear a certain attitude. And the attitude is, I'm going to do what's best, okay, for him.”
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“No, no, because no it doesn't mean that because look in the biblical text, for example, there is an insistence that the spirit of the divine wants the provision of life more abundant. That's the language. The idea of a fruitful garden, an earthly garden of delights even, that's part and parcel of a vision of paradise. It's not joyless. It's harmoniously balanced. Best way to think about it is likely musically in a musical piece that's great. Every note has its place. Every note has its proper place in relationship to the whole.”
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“So I don't need to do this. Well, and we also know, you know, when people are, say, off to a battle in wartime, they party like there's no tomorrow, well, because maybe there isn't. So definitely. The religious insistence is that you should live in the light of eternity. Right, is that you should attempt to conduct yourself in a manner that is best all things considered over the longest possible conceivable span of time.”
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“Well, right, right. And you don't want to be the joyless grind for whom everything is tomorrow. It's very hard to because what you're trying to do is you're trying to optimize emotion and strategy over all time frames.”
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“Well, that helps. Practice helps surrounding yourself with people who have the same aim and that keep you responsible. Accountable, that helps. Oh, yeah, you need all of that because that battle, the battle between immediate gratification and medium to long-term investment, that's a real battle.”
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“Well, that's part of that trap, eh Well, okay, so that's a very good observation because that thought is going to have a story attached to it. The story is going to be something like While I'm with this person, we both become unattractive quite rapidly. We get alienated from one another. There's no sexual dynamism or romance or excitement, and then we just sit and eat like cold eggs while looking at each other harshly over the table at breakfast for 40 years. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's dismal. So, you know, maybe don't do that.”
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“Same person okay well, but that's really no look understand like I know that novelty enhances pleasure So the question is how do you”
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“Definitely. Well, and there's an edge to it too, right? Because one of the Pleasure is enhanced by novelty. Right. So that rings up an issue with regards to marriage. You know, I talk to Bill Maher. Bill's alone. And he's my age, you know, and that's painful but he said to me You know in his Hollywood hedonistic manner that he really couldn't imagine being with the same woman you know for any length of time. It's a novelty issue. It's like well Are you restricted by the woman or are you restricted by the limits of your own imagination? This is an important question. I would say If you establish the optimized relationship with someone, they're inexhaustible Don't mean novelty isn't important, it's important. That's part of play.”
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“Yeah, right, right, she'll give you everything you want, but that's not true. She'll give the worst part of you everything it wants Jesus, that's not good. The worst weakest part of you will get exactly what it wants. That's not good. That's seriously not good.”
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“Absolutely. 100%. Oh, and it's going to get way worse. Wait till there are AI-equipped, adjustable pornographic. Then we're really going to have fun because we're already at the point now where with a decent chat bought a really alienated young man can have a better conversation with a decent chat bot than with anybody he's ever talked to in his entire life. Right, now they're going to get a lot smarter and soon they're going to have like, well, there's already services of this sort of available. They'll be fully. fleshed out two dimensional women. They're not women. Simulacra of women. Right. So, yeah.”
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“I don't think anybody thinks that. There's something furtive about it and second rate. Obviously, it's ridiculous in a sense that we even have to have this discussion because obviously.”
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“The part of you that thinks, well, what the hell will win? What the hell? Which is what people think when they do something they shouldn't do. And they should notice what they say to themselves when they're making that rationalization. Because what the hell refers to hell. And the reason to stop doing things that are self-destructive is because they're self-destructive. I mean, is that the sort of person you want to be? Is that the model you'd like to have for your son, for example? Is that the way you would imagine that someone you admire would act? These are good questions to ask yourself No, are you the sort of person that is acting out a pattern that you think is admirable? I don't think pornography masturbation fits into the ideal of heroic masculinity.”
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“Write down everything exhaustively. Everything you think it might be doing to you. Write it down everything. Don't worry about whether you're right or not. Like maybe it's not doing some of the things you think it might be doing, but make an exhaustive list, then start thinking through. It's like, is that what you want? Is that what you want? And then write down what you want instead. That'll help. Because if you're going to, look. Any hedonistic endeavor is rewarding in the moment, obviously. The problem is the price you pay for it in the medium to long run, right? That's the problem. And it's the contradiction between those two things that's the problem. Okay, now if you want to quit doing something that's gratifying in the short term, you need to know why, right? Because otherwise you won't have the willpower. You won't have the...”
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“Well, we also don't know. That's right. We have no idea whatsoever what a diet of pornography exposure does to somebody who's making their way through puberty”
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“You know, I remember when I was a kid, I got a hold of some of these underground comics from the nineteen sixties. And a lot of the underground comic artists were, they're pretty pathological creatures like Robert Crumb's a good example. Crumb led a pretty good life for someone as demented as he is. And there's a very famous documentary made about the Crumb brothers and Robert Crumb was the establisher. He was one of the people who established the genre of graphic novel really back in the 60s in Heid Ashbury in San Francisco. And his imagination goes places that you don't want to be along for the ride. Seriously, like seriously. And I read some of that material when I was like 11. You know, I never forgot it. It was shocking as hell and like typical 11-year-old now. It's like.”
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“I don't know how to answer that. I think any policy that policies that require force rather than voluntary compliance are generally bad policies There are restrictions that should be placed on its distribution, but I would have to spend a lot of time thinking through what those were from a policy perspective. I think it's wrong. No, I don't think. I know it's wrong. That doesn't mean I know how that should be dealt with at the level of policy. It's complicated. I do understand why young men and young women are angry about it. It's like, where are the adults? Where are the adults? Where have they gone? They're not protecting like 11-year-old kids from what you can see on the net.”
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“Maybe you're betraying the most fundamental possible thing. It's certainly possible. There is life and sex. That's pretty much that, right? You're alive and you reproduce from a biological perspective. And so you're violating the spirit of what? Maybe you're violating the spirit of... Likely.”
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“That's a good question. That's a good question. Well, there's nothing heroic about it, that's for sure. It's like it's obviously nothing to be proud of. That's a different issue than whether or not it's wrong, right? It's certainly not an accomplishment. I mean, I don't think anyone would disagree about that. It's not an accomplishment. Well, maybe sex is supposed to be an accomplishment. Maybe you violate the spirit of sexuality itself when it's not in a culture. You certainly do that if you rape. So, is it an accomplishment? Probably. So, what if your accomplishment is false? Well, then what are you betraying? Well, if it's associated with sex,”
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“Now, can you attribute that to pornography? Certainly part. Like if I was a young woman, and I was looking at the pornography world online, I'd think yeah maybe not, but”
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“Well, whatever penthouse didn't show you, hustler will show you. And it got pretty low brow like it was a rough, low class magazine. It just shed all the pretensions that Playboy and Penthouse had. And then the net came along. All those engineers who couldn't establish a relationship with an actual woman exchanging pornography what twenty five percent of internet traffic something like that, that desire to exchange pornography was that what created the net? Yeah. A huge part of it. What's that done? Well, as you pointed out, I think 30% now of Japanese men and women under thirty are virgins. It's about the same in Korea. Relationships between men and women are falling apart in the rest of the West in the same sort of way.”
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“How much of what men do they do to impress women? It's like, yeah, like all of it Of it. I mean, the status battles that men back to the law firms, for example. So the men I worked with, they were very concerned with their bonuses and their end of the year performance reports. Why? Well, part of it was the money. Most of them had lots of money. It's like I'd ask them to say, well, the money is how we keep score. Well, what does that mean? Well, money is the way that men in those competitive enterprises say they compare themselves to one another. And why do they want to be at the top? Because women peel from the top. So men are trying to impress women all the time and they'll do it in positive ways and in pathological ways. The window for sexual representation started to open in the 1920s, let's say, but it really got going with Playboy. Then Penthouse came out right after that, and Penthouse was like full frontal nudity display. And then hustler came out and hustler was sort of.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sexual gratification God's not good. It's not supposed to be easy. And it's easy. How desperate do you have to be to get married Desperate at all. It's like, yeah, right. What do you know? You don't know anything. I'm married just because I'm in love. You're an idiot Got to put you in a position where you're You're going to have the romantic adventure of your life, the true romantic adventure of your life. You're going to need love and desperation, buddy. You're going to need everything working on your side. Love, desperation, terror, shame, guilt, everything working for you. And so you take the easy road. Sure, you're not desperate anymore.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It is a terrible thing. It's a terrible thing. Everything about it is terrible. Well, first of all, it's addictive, and no wonder. I mean, any 13-year-old boy will and now look at more beautiful naked women in one day than the greatest king who ever lived managed in his whole life. Right. So it's like, wow, that's not.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, no matter what, she's been very good at that. I would say better than me. I've been good at it, but she's been really quite remarkably good at it. She really threw herself into it. And I mean, that's... Cause isn't complete transformation, but there's plenty of skeletons in the closet to be revealed. God, that's for sure.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Like, and your partner, it's like, what are we doing here? What do we want? Tammy and I decided, for example, when we first got married, well, I mentioned this to her right away when we decided that we were going to take things seriously. It was like, we're going to tell each other the truth. So that was part of the vision. Like, no matter what.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Know because you have a real issue. It's like, how can marriage not be a trap? How can marriage be a trap? How can not being married be a trap? How can being alone being a trap be a trap? How can being deluded about what holds people together be a trap? There's traps everywhere, man. There's traps everywhere. And so there's no risk-free pathway forward. There's just risk everywhere. Okay, so that's a really useful thing to know. Then the question would shift to something like, well, if I wanted to construct a relationship that was optimized, that's what you have to ask yourself.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“trouble I'm having conceptualizing marriage okay now you want to know that's the first precondition okay then you'll get memories images like that and then people shy away it's like I don't want to go there it's like yeah that's for sure you bloody well don't want to go there but you do because if it's there You will go there. It'll plague you and it'll plague your life. It'll show its head continually in your relationship, or you can get to the bottom of it, which is people will fight their whole life with their partner to avoid getting to the bottom of something. That's how terrifying it is to get to the bottom of something, right? But if you do get to the bottom of it, then you don't have to fight for 30 years. So that's very much worthwhile. And it'll lighten you as well.”
2025-01-13 · The Diary of a CEO · Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce! · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT