YouSaid · the spoken record

Kate Darling

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180
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2022-10-15
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2022-10-15
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podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

  1. “Thanks for listening to this conversation with Kate Darling. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, let me leave you with some words from Maya Angelou. Courage is the most important of all the virtues, because without courage, you can't practice any other virtue consistently. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “I agree, beautifully put. Kate, this is awesome. I still didn't talk about half the things I want to talk about, but. Already like way over three hours, so thank you so much. I really appreciate you talking. Today, you're awesome. You're an amazing human being, a great roboticist, great writer now. It's an honor that you would talk with me. Thanks for doing it.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “Tell you how to be curious about the world and how to be open minded. Last question What role does love play in the human condition? Since we've been talking about love and robots. And you're fascinated by social robotics. Feels like all of that operates in the landscape of something that we can call love.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “That's just an interesting one. Because, uh, Maybe they'll be good, a little jealousy for the relationship. Maybe they'll be a part of the couple's therapy, you know, kind of thing or whatever.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “But it happens, so I brought that up as an example of something that people actually love, but they complain about because for some reason that's more fun to do is complain about stuff. And so that's what with Clippy or whatever, right? So you complain about, but you actually love it. It's just a good metaphor that was I'm going to ask you. Your hamster died”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “Think. Anyway, but I just noticed this a lot that people are married and they will whine about, you know, like the wife, whatever is part of the sort of the culture to kind of comment in that way. I think women do the same thing about the husband. He never does this or he's a goof. He's incompetent at this or that, whatever. There's a kind of”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “Yeah, I do. And then I listened to friends of mine that complain not all. I like guys. I really like guys that don't complain about their marriage. It's such a cheap. It's such a cheap release valve. That's bitching about anything, honestly. That's just like, it's too easy. But especially, like, bitch about the sports team or the weather, if you want, but about somebody that you're dedicating your life to, like if you bitch about them. You're going to see them as a lesser being also. Like, you don't think so, but you're going to decrease the value. I personally believe over time, you're not going to appreciate the magic of that person.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “Yeah, I have an announcement to make. No, I don't know. It just seems like a good metaphor. For why it felt like a good metaphor in a bunch of cases for the marriage industrial complex. I remember that. And oh, people complaining, it just seemed like marriage is one of the things that always surprises me because I want to get married.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “Team and do what's right for the team. That's very like Michael Jordan view. Do you guys get married in the desert like November rain style with slash playing? You don't have to answer that. I'm not good at these questions. Okay.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “What went wrong with a pumpkin spice Greek yogurt? What's exactly wrong? Is it the pumpkin? Is it the Greek? I didn't understand. I stared at that tweet for a while”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “And that particular thing was hurting people. It's the good line. It's a good line. Hurting ultimately the people that you want to flourish. Tweeted a picture of pumpkin spice Greek yogurt. And ask grounds for divorce, yes, no. So let me ask you what's the key to a successful relationship?”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “Ultimately, I think the thing you said is cross lines in a way that doesn't Alienate others. So, like, for example, me weren't, I started for a while wearing a suit often at MIT, which sounds counterintuitive, but that's actually, people always looked at me weird for that. MIT created this culture specifically the people I was working with. Like nobody wears suits. Maybe the best trust.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Just your opinion. You have strong lines you hold But then if administration listens to every line, There's also power in drawing a line. And it becomes like a little drug. You have to find the right balance. Licking somebody's arm is never appropriate. I think the biggest aspect there is not owning it, learning from it, growing from it from the perspective of Stallman or people like that. Back when it understanding, seeing empathetic, seeing the fact that this was totally inappropriate. not when that particular act, but everything that led up to it too.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “And the freedom in all ways. Which is why it's heartbreaking to get people like Richard Stallman to such an interesting line because Richard Stallman was a gigantic weirdo Cross lines you shouldn't across, right? But we don't want to draw too many lines This is the tricky thing.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “It's an amazing place. But there's different trajectories you can take And that has to do with a lot of things, including Is it stay, even if we talk about robotics, it could be the capital of the world in robotics. But currently, if you want to be doing the best AI work in the world, you're going to go to Google or Facebook or Tesla or Apple or so on, you're not going to be at MIT. So that has to do. I think that's basically has to do with. Not allowing the brilliance of the researchers to flourish.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “Bottom up. Oh, I see, I see, but I do think ultimately, especially in the era of social media and so on. Faculty and students have more and more power. Just more and more of a voice, I suppose.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “But those individuals, I'm saying the capacity. The aura of the place still values the students and the faculty. I'm being awfully poetic about it, but what I mean is the administration is the The froth at the top of the waves, the surface, like they can be removed and new life can be brought in that would keep to the spirit of the place.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “See, I believe in the power of individuals to overthrow the thing, so just a really good president. Of MIT or certain people in administration can reform the whole thing because the culture is still there of like, I think everybody... Remembers that MIT is about the students.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Yeah, there's a disconnect, right? I wonder if that was always there if it just kind of slowly grows over time, a disconnect between the administration and the faculty.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “What did you learn from that? I mean, where's the source if you have hope for this institution that I think you love, at least in part? I love the idea of MID.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “That's really powerful, actually. That's really important to remember because that means you have compassion towards all human beings. Do you have hope for the future of MIT, the future of Media Lab in this context? So David Newman is now at the helm. I talked to a previous I'll talk to her again. She's great”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “I wish I met Epstein. Something tells me he would just be a regular person, a charismatic person, like anybody else, and that's a very dark reality that we don't know which among us would What each of us are hiding in the closet. A really tough thing to deal with because then you can put your trust into some people and they can completely betray that trust and in the process destroy you. There's a lot of people that interacted with Epstein. Now I mean, if they're not destroyed by it, then their whole, like the ground on which they stand ethically has crumbled, at least in part. I'm sure you and I have interacted with people without knowing it who are bad people.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “But it's not just her, it's our whole family believes this. There's a whole effort that says that. How should I put it? I believe they believe it. So, in that sense, it's not PR. I believe the family, basically the family is saying that She's a really good human being”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “Three hours now Let me ask you about Gheth Maxwell. She's been saying that she's an innocent victim. Is she an innocent victim or is she evil and equally responsible, like Jeffrey Epstein? Now I'm asking far away from any MIT things and more just your sense of the whole situation”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Aren't like deeply hurtful to others. And I don't mean that in a social justice warrior way, but in a real way, like people really have different experiences. So I feel like really put things into context. I have to kind of listen to what people are saying, put aside the emotion of what you're saying, and try to keep the facts of their experience and learn from it.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “Are those things, yeah, finding, and then, but you have to give. Have to acknowledge, you have to give that hard hit to the ego that says I did something wrong. Yeah, definitely Richard Stalma is not somebody who was capable of that kind of thing or hasn't given evidence of that kind of thing. But that was also, even just your tweet, I had to do a lot of thinking. Different people from different walks of life see red flags in different things Things I find As a man non threatening and hilarious, Are not necessarily. Doesn't mean that they're”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Which I was torn about because I felt it's similar to Joy, you know. It's like I felt he was maligned. Like people were looking for somebody to get angry at. So he was inappropriate, but the... I didn't like the cowardice more. I set aside his situation, and we could discuss it. But the cowardice on MIT's part, and this is me saying it, about the way they treated that whole situation.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “Yeah, it's a balance. Like women should be allowed to be a little weirder and men should be less weird. Because I think there was a, because you're one of the people, I think, tweeting that would made me, because I wanted to talk to Richard Stallman on the podcast. Because I didn't have a context because I wanted to talk to him because he's free software. He's very weird. Interesting good ways in the world of computer science. He's also weird in that when he gives a talk, he'll be like picking at his feet and eating the skin off his feet, right? He's known for these extremely kind of How else do you put it? I don't know how to put it. But then there was. Something that happened to him in conversations on this thread related to Epstein.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “There's some aspect of this situation that there should be more women here. Actually, I'd love to ask you about this because you have strong opinions about Richard Stallman. Do you still have those strong opinions?”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “And what do you do with rumors? Like, isn't there people that heard rumors about Bill Cosby for the longest time? Like for the longest, like whenever that happened, all these people came out of the woodwork. Like everybody kind of knew. I mean, it's like, all right, so what are you supposed to do with rumors? I think the other way to put his red flags, as you were saying.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “I wonder what the different circles look like so like people that went to the island. Didn't do anything, didn't see anything, didn't know about anything. Versus the people that did something. And then there's”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “Like nobody asks those questions. It's interesting. I would think like there would be more security or something. There really isn't. I think a lot of it has to do, what my hope is, in my case has to do with people can sense that this is a good person. But. That's the case, then they can surely a human being can use charisma. infiltrate”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “I mean, that's not like. Does anyone check anything about me? Because I've walked into some of the richest, some of the most popular people in the world, and nobody asked questions like, who the fuck is this guy?”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  34. “Understand why Epstein was able to Outside of MIT, he was able to make a lot of friends. A lot of powerful people. Does it make sense to you? Why was he able to get in these rooms, befriend these people, befriend people that I don't know personally, but I think a lot of them Indirectly, I know as being good people. Smart people Would they let Jeffrey Epstein into their office have a discussion with them? What do you understand about human nature from that?”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  35. “I feel like currently. Because Joey took resigned because of it, or essentially fired, pressured out because of it. MIT can pretend like, oh, we didn't know anything. It wasn't part.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. “See, in that situation, what I had hoped Is the people in the farther in that situation any situation of that sort, the people that are farther out in the circles? Stand And also take some responsibility for the broader picture of human nature versus specific situation, but also take some responsibility. but also defend the people involved. As flawed, not in a like, no, no, no, nothing. People fucked up. Like you said, there's a lot of red flags that people just ignored for the sake of money in this particular case. But also, like, be transparent and public about it and spread the responsibility across large number of people such that you learn a lesson from it institutionally and”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. “The problem is often the first person you find is the one that has integrity, sufficient integrity to take responsibility.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. “It's been, I think, three years since the Jeffrey Epstein controversy at MIT Media Lab. Joy Ito, the head of the media lab, resigned. And I think at that time you wrote an opinion article about it. So just looking back, a few years have passed, what have you learned about human nature? From the fact that somebody like Jeffrey Epstein found his way inside MIT.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  39. “I take risks where you might lose your job. You might lose your well being because of Because in the process of standing for the principles, for the things you think are right to do based on the things you... Like based on learning from listening to people and learning from what they feel. And the same goes for the institution. Yeah. Yeah. But ultimately actually believe that those kinds of companies. and countries succeed that have leaders like that. You should run for president.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  40. “Yeah, I mean, just, well, if you hired PR people, obviously they would see that and they'd be like, well, maybe don't bring up autism. Maybe don't bring up these topics. You're getting attacked. It's bad for your brand, they'll say the brand word. There'll be, you know, if we look at different demographics that are inspired by your work, I think it's insensitive to them. Let's not mention this anymore. There's this kind of pressure that all of a sudden... You or You do suboptimal decisions. You take a kind of Again, it's looking at the past versus the future, all those kinds of things. And it becomes difficult. In the same way that it's difficult for social media companies to figure out who's Recommend”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  41. “Here's the problem you're a very smart person in an individual, a researcher, thinker, an intellectual, so that's the right thing for you to do. The hard thing is as a company. Imagine you had a PR team.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  42. “Something that I accept. And you accept being attacked from both sides and grow from it and learn from it But the danger is that after being attacked, assuming you don't get canceled, aka completely removed from your ability to tweet. You might become jaded and not want to talk about autism anymore.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  43. “But maybe it sees, I don't know if you'd love it because maybe you'll see racism in things that aren't racist. And then you're arguing with a robot. Your robot starts going. I'm not exactly sure that it's a tricky thing. I guess I'm saying that. The line is not obvious, especially in this heated discussion where we have a lot of identity politics of what is harmful to different groups and so on. It feels difficult, the broader question here is, should a social robotics company be solving or being part of solving the issues of society?”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  44. “Well, I think there's a difficult challenge here because even the premise you started with that essentially racism is bad. I think we live in a society today where the definition of racism is different between different people. Some people say that it's not enough not to be racist. Some people say you have to be anti-racist. So you have to have a robot that constantly calls out on your implicit racism.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  45. “Yes, exactly. I'm allowed to make that joke. Yes. And I've been nonstop reading about World War II and Hitler. I think I'm glad we exist in the world where we can just make those jokes that helps deal with it. Anyway. It is a serious question of sort of like. It's such a difficult problem to solve. Now, of course, like bias and so on, there's low hanging fruit, which I think a lot of people are focused on. But then it becomes like subtle stuff over time. And it's very difficult to know. Now, you can also completely remove the personality. You can completely remove the personalization.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  46. “I guess Because there's a lot of people that are subtly racist in modern society, like, why shouldn't our robots also be subtly rac I mean, that's like, why do we put so much responsibility on the robots?”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  47. “Let me ask you about racist robots Is it up to a company that creates that? So we talk about removing bias and so on. Yeah. And that's a really popular field in AI currently. And a lot of people agree that it's an important field. But the question is for social robotics, should it be up to the company to remove the bias of society?”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  48. “Back to marriage. What about all the money that it costs to get married and then all the money that it cost to get a divorce? Feels like a very scam. I think the society is full of scams that are like.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  49. “Oh, the ethics of that is interesting. But there's also the practical funding mechanisms, like you mentioned with Dibo, the dog. In theory, there's a subscription.”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  50. “You tweeted were about to be living in the movie her except instead of see I researched your tweets like they're like Shakespeare”

    2022-10-15 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #329 – Kate Darling: Social Robots, Ethics, Privacy and the Future of MIT · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source