YouSaid · the spoken record

Matthew Cox

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500
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2024-01-17
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2024-01-17
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podcast

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  1. “When you buy a house for $100,000, you pay $700 in dock stamps. But if you pay an extra $700, the sale shows up for $200,000 Buying these things for 50, so I'm paying $350 and I'm just paying an extra $1,050.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “On the computer, they never go out to the property, or they send someone out, they call that, it's like a field review. They send someone out and they just look at the house. They don't go in it though. So I have to clean out the outside of the house. So what I did was, but the problem is, is if your house is, you're trying to sell that house for, let's say, $200,000, the other houses, they have to pick three comparable sales in the area that are also going to support a $200,000 sales price. Well, there's no other house is selling for $200,000 near this house. So I thought if I want to get these things appraised for $200,000, $250,000, I have to have comparable sales. And that appraisal is going to be reviewed. So, what I did was I went out and I bought this house for $50,000 and I recorded the sale at 200,”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “That seemed short sighted, so I thought what'd be even better is that if I did a little bit of renovations and then I sold it for much higher, maybe I put 10,000, clean up the outside of it because these guys don't care what the inside of the property looks like. They don't exist. But I can't, how am I going to get an appraisal for $100,000? Well, do you know how appraisals work? Okay, so the bank sends an appraiser out. Or at that time, you could provide an appraisal. They can review it. So they'll do what's called a desktop review. They review it. They review it on.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “Can buy these houses, renovate them, and sell them to regular people. But I also had been working on the synthetic identities. And then I thought, well, or I could just sell them to synthetic identities. And then I wouldn't have to dump 25,000 into it, right? And these guys are perfect. They have perfect credit. I can provide W2s and pay stubs because by this point I'm manufacturing businesses. So I've got incorporated businesses. I've got websites for the businesses. W2s pay stub. So these guys have, these guys look perfect. So I figure I'll buy these properties for $50,000, sell to these guys for $100. Maybe I'll pocket $40,000 or $50,000. I don't really have to do anything.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “So, what I did eventually is down the road, but. At this point, when things are just my whole life had kind of gone off the rails. I was on federal probation, and so what I did decided I was going to do was start running a scam, a much larger scam. And what I was going to do was I was going to start flipping properties, right? Like buy houses cheap, fix them up and sell them. There's an area of Tampa called Ibor City. So I was going to start flipping houses anywhere city. And I thought, okay, I can buy these houses for you. You could buy a really crappy house at that time for $50,000, $60,000, let's say $50. And then you could put $25,000 into it in renovations. You could renovate it for $25. And maybe you could get an appraisal for $100. So I thought what I could do is I can”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “Her identity, but I had the ability to Leverage that perfect credit profiles against properties. And I mean, ultimately, that's what I end up doing. And so each one of those identities was worth. A few million”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “Right, you get 15. Maybe, you know, if you want to keep making the payments, if you could wait a year, you could probably get $15,000, maybe you could maybe get $20,000, $30,000 and a bunch of little smaller ones, you know, get $7,500 because I did, I did, there's a $7,500 from Citibank, $5,500 from American General. So you maybe get, what, $25,000, maybe $30,000 in personal loans. Maybe you can, you could then apply for You can maybe get another 20 or $30,000 in regular credit cards, you know, $10,000 here, $8,000, $5,000. And then you go to the lower department store cards and you go to Home Depot, you get $1,000, you get $500. So it ends up being maybe you can get $50,000, $60,000. Maybe if you really good, you could get up to $80,000 or $100,000 in credit cards and personal loans. If you really know what you were doing.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “So I think most people, if you were just like a scammer, a fraudster, you would probably just get credit cards and maybe build up that history or maybe try and borrow a personal loan, which is limited. Personal loans are used to be Used to be you could go to An FDIC insured bank which borrows money. The personal loans they lend out at the max $15,000. So you could do that.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “Bet you that the credit bureaus don't generate credit scores for at least a year. And I was like, God, this is going to be a year-long process. And while that was happening, I started, I was starting other ones because I figured at least in a year I'll have a bunch of these, we call them like phantom borrowers. But now they call them synthetic identities. So at least I would have these synthetic identities and maybe I could do something with them. But what happened was at six months, I went randomly pulled the guy's credit, you know, the person's credit and 705 credit scores. 705, 701, 695. I was like, oh my, you only needed a 620 to borrow to get a 95% loan from the bank. So I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. Sure enough, a month later, the other ones I had started, all of them bam, bam, bam.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “With the social security number that I know was issued a couple months ago has three credit cards. They don't even say secure. They just say there's like this credit card is $500. It was issued by Bank of America. This one was issued by Capital One. This one was, so I've got three of them, but I had no credit scores. So at that point, I kind of kicked back and waited. I just kept making payments. And I remember thinking to myself,”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “Right, because now I have the name, I have the social security numbering. What's great is they mail you. What's even better is then you get to pick whatever name you want. Because when you pick your child's name, he doesn't even have to have your last name. You pick any name. But I've got a social security number, and then I would go apply for credit cards and I'd get denied, of course, but they would all offer me a secured credit card. So I'd then fill out the secured credit card and I'd send the bank the money and they would give me a secured credit card for $500, $300, $1,000, whatever it was. And then once you start making the payments, Pulled the credit and a credit profile shows up saying that this 31 year old man”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “But you noticed they would just grab the thing. They'd feel the form and go, okay, like they don't even look at it. So, which is upsetting if you put as much work into these documents as I am for them to go, okay, yeah, that's good. Sit over there. I felt like going like, hey, bro, take a look at this. This is artwork.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Hillsborough County Vital Statistics or Richland County Vital Statistics or something. And I couldn't get anybody to make that. So I changed it to like Richland County Office of Virtual Records. And then I took like 220 grit sandpaper and hit it over and over and over again to wear it down. And then I did the embossment on the on the corner. And I printed it on the security paper, embossed it. Nobody looks at those things. You can see Richland County. You know, you could kind of see that. And really, they just grab it and they go like this. This is what you realize when I started getting started getting driver's licenses issued by the state DMV, right? The state, I figured out eventually it was easier to just go into the DMV and have them give me a driver's license than actually make one.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “What I did. So I figured out how to create a birth certificate. I ordered the security paper where you make a copy says void if copied. So I ordered, had to order a bunch of that. And I went online and figured out how to make a fake birth certificate. It was great too because the county actually, they give you a blank form. And then they actually show you what it looks like filled out, like a handwritten one filled out. So I knew if he was born this day, he got these shots. Two months later, he got these shot. Six months later, he got these shots. So I just filled it out. I even had to order a seal. So you have to have a seal that says like...”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “We needed to go, we need to get Social Security to issue a social security number. And they would say, well, he should have issued it, but that does happen sometimes. So bring your son in and we'll, you know, you can fill out paperwork. We'll have one issued. First, we'll check to see he never had one issued. And if he hasn't, we'll issue one. And so then it turned into my son is out of the country and I need this. And then that turned into, oh, I'm sorry. Well, how old is he? I was like, you know, he's three. And they go, well, I'm sorry if he's over the age of 12 months old. He has to come in, hang up the phone, call back. My son is 10 months old. He's out of the country, born with a midwife, never had a social security number. And then they go, oh, okay, that's fine. Just get his birth certificate and his shot record and you can come in, fill out the paperwork, will issue you a social security number. And that's.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “He has one. Go ahead and get your son. Come in here. No, I'm not doing that. Hang up. Call back. So I called back probably 10 times. And eventually Someone said I kept altering it, kept altering what I was saying. So I got to the point where I was saying, My son was born with a midwife, not in the hospital, and the pediatrician told us that”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “Calling Social Security and trying to get them to issue me Social Security numbers to adults that had never had a social security number issued to them. I need to get Social Security number to give me a clean social security number. But I called up and of course, you know, I'm a novice. I don't really know what I'm doing. So I call up and I say, hey, yeah, never had a social security number issue. And they were like, how old are you? And I was like, I'm 31 years old, you know, and they were, yeah, that's not possible. Do you have a driver's license? Yeah. You have a bank account? Yeah, you have a social security number. Bring your driver's license in and we'll pull it up. Okay, well, that's not going to happen. Hang up. Call back. Hi, my son is seven years old or three years old and he had never had a social security number issued. Oh, okay. Was he born in a hospital? Yes. Well, he has one.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “Went and we pulled, applied for a couple credit cards using a child social security number. And then we went and pulled our own credit report. And sure enough, it didn't say no file found. It just said that there had been two inquiries applying for credit cards. So I was like, wow, like that's a credit profile So that turns into me. Going to Social Security.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Right. And she stumbled into it. But she basically explained it to me. And I mean, I don't think she had walked out of my brokerage office before I went and I just started making up names. And I think I went into our file cabinet and grabbed some people's 1040s, which we had, you know. Tax returns and looked up children's social security numbers and just grab some random kid social security numbers and their name and went and pulled them, but I changed their date of birth to be an adult, pulled it, and sure enough it came up, no file found. You know, it didn't say fraud alert or fraud or anything. They didn't say mismatch this, mismatch. That didn't say anything. It just said, you know, no file found. Well, then...”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “She could have claimed bankruptcy, and then two years later, listen, two years out of bankruptcy, you can go into Bank of America and get a conventional mortgage, assuming you have perfect credit outside the bankruptcy. You have the down payment. You make enough money. There's a whole bunch of underwriting guidelines you have to meet. But that's possible. But you're right. For instance, she wasn't getting an apartment using with her bad credit. She wasn't getting her utilities turned on. She wasn't getting any of those things done.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “Sure enough, it went through. She had no credit, but they said, you don't have bad credit. So she said once she moved into the apartment, she then started getting these pre-approved credit cards. So she goes, but I knew I had applied there using my son's social security number, let's say. So she started filling those out. And sure enough, she got a credit card. And then she got two. And then she got a pre-approval from Ford Motor Credit. She went and got herself a new car. Got approved. She'd been making the payments ever since. She has 750 credit scores. She thought she'd try her hand at buying a house in his name, in his Social Security number. We caught it, and she got a house in that name. We closed it. I just was like, wow, like this is great.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “So he had bad credit, their credit went bad. So he switched to her name. And a friend told her, if she needed to get her electric or anything turned on, she could use her name and use her daughters or son's social security number, which was like a four-year-old kid. So she used that and it went through. She had to put a deposit down, but it went through at least Wasn't denied. So that went through. Then she went and she applied for an apartment with that.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “How did you get 750 credit scores under this Social Security number when clearly this is your real social security number? You've been working for this company for 10 years. And your credit profile says it's only like three years old. And I was like, what happened? And what she told me she did was she went through a divorce. had been married for 10 years, used her husband's surname for 10 years. So she has no credit under her maiden name. But when they got divorced, she switched to her maiden name. Because when she pulled, tried to get anything in her husband's surname. Was denied bad credit.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “And he said, This is a social security number on the W2. And I went, okay, keep in mind you go to get a car loan or credit card. They never ask for these things. And he was like, I'm really shocked he even noticed it. I probably might not have even caught it. But they were different. And I went, really? And he goes, yeah. He said, so I did, you know, she just brought him in. You know, she's here. And I was like, oh, bring her in here. So she came in, sat down. I said, listen, here's what we just found. And she was like, oh, okay, you know what? I don't want the loan. I go, no, no, no. I said, listen, you're getting the loan. You got a 750 credit score. Like, I don't care what we have to do. We're getting you the loan. I just want to know what's going on.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “I mean, I had a pretty good understanding anyway So, I'm starting to learn So I'm putting these things together. And I remember one time I had a woman come in. She came in and she had perfect credit. She had like 750 credit scores. I mean, it was perfect. And she came in. And one of the brokers came in and said, hey man, he's like, can I show you something? I was like, yeah, what's up? He goes, look, he said, I've got this woman's W-2s here. I said, okay. I looked at him. And he goes, here's your credit report. And he goes, here's the application. This is the Social Security number. I went, all right.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “I would get the phone call. So I get the phone call from the owner of a bank or a lending institute, you know, a lender. And that lender says, hey, Matt, we got a problem. I'm like, what's up? He's like, he's like, listen, we caught a fake W-2. I'm like, what do you mean? Yeah, you're a broker so-and-so sent us a file and this person had, there's two fake W2s, and we're assuming the pay stubs are fake. And I'm like, are you serious? How did you even catch that? And they go, oh, well, here's what we did. We checked with sunbiz.com, you know, sunbiz.gov, which is the Secretary of State's website that registers corporations. And we checked in the tax ID number didn't match. And now I know every W2 has to have a matching tax ID number for whatever corporation issued it.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Don't ask for any documentation. He's got the money in the bank, he's got a 700 credit score, says he's been on the job for two years, he's self employed. We're going to raise his interest rate by 1%. And he's got, you know, that's it. He's got the loan. But you start to know how things work because I hired a bunch of brokers to work underneath me. And when they would get caught”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “We don't ask for this or this, we just ask for them to say they're self-employed, like liar loans. You've heard the term liar loans. No doc loans where they don't ask for any documentation. If he's got over like, let's say, a 700 credit score and he says he's been a plumber and he works for himself. And he's got over a 700 credit score. He just has to say he's worked for himself for over two years.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “I was on the inside. Does that make sense? Like, I wasn't just a broker that was sitting out with everybody else and would periodically come in and ask questions or would call underwriting, but really didn't understand what was happening and what exactly what the underwriting guidelines were. Now I was actually talking to the underwriters and you're talking to the owners of the lending institutions and the banks and you're talking to all of the account executives. And now it wasn't just Eagle lending I was talking to. There were 40 different account executives coming in on a weekly basis trying to get us to sign up with their lender. And they're on the inside telling you coming in, showing you programs and saying, look, if your borrower is self-employed.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “But the truth is, the first time the Credit Bureau has ever heard about you was when you told them. The first time you applied for a credit card, they created a credit profile at that moment. Prior to that, they had no idea. So the first time you apply, you give them your full name, date of birth, social security number, and your address. And they create a credit profile and they say, hey, no record found of this person. He has no credit, nothing probably got denied. What I realized through the course of, because eventually I end up leaving that one company and I opened my own mortgage company. When I opened that mortgage company,”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “So your credit profile is made up of your name, date of birth, your address, and your social security number. And those are the kind of, you know, and then there's other things where you work. Sort of thing But what people don't realize is there's so many people out there that think. The credit bureaus already know who you are.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “There is well, every time I change something, it wasn't gray area. I just committed fraud. This level, you either meet the guidelines or someone has massaged it in such a way that they've committed fraud. That's it. There's tons of ways where you can commit fraud. Just can't figure it out. Does that make sense? Like, I mean, you've committed fraud, and it's like they've looked at the entire, they look at all the documents and they double check everything and they know there's fraud in here, they just can't find it.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “Yeah, I charge a broker fee. Or you charge yield spread. So yield spread is, let's say the interest rate is 8% interest. If I charge them 25 basis points over the 8%, so I charge them eight and a quarter, you know, 8.25. Then I get 1% of the loan back as a fee. So if I charge them eight and a half percent, I get two points back. So if it's $100,000 piece of property and the bank says your interest rate is going to be And I tell you 8.5, and I'm charging you a $3,500 broker fee, now I'm making $5,500. So on even a $100,000 loan, you could make a nice chunk of change. I mean, it's.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  34. “Shouldn't be allowed to borrow they're not in a position financially, you know, and there were many occasions where I put someone in a house that they 100% swore they could afford. I was helping them. I told myself I was helping them. And a year and a half later they're going into foreclosure. Their stuff's on the corner. They don't know where to go. And the truth is that I'm not smarter than the actuaries that came up with those underwriting guidelines.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  35. “I told myself that right up until that loans were solid and I was helping those people out right up until I went to prison and I was in prison and I had to write the government asked me to write an ethics and fraud course to help teach the nation's mortgage brokers. You know, all loan officers and brokers have to take, I think it's nine hours of continuing education every single year. And I was approached to write the ethics course. And it was about that time and about the same period of time I was writing a book, my book. That kind of, I started reflecting on what I had done. The truth is like, And this is a horrible thing to say because the first time I ever heard somebody say this, I remember thinking, oh, that's a horrible thing to say. Some people should not own a house.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. “Then the loan closes. I get a check for $3,500. He gets into a house. I'm doing him a favor. You know, I'm doing God's work. So I fix it. I kick back. I'm terrified a little bit, you know, worried about it. Sure enough, it closes four or five days later. They call me. He's ready to close. A week later, we close. I get a check. Next guy that comes in, I mean, I got very, very quickly. I was concerned. Do you have a house? Do you have a deal? Is it ready? I can get you done. Now, if you were in bankruptcy or something, there's some things you just you'd pull their credit and you just couldn't help them if they had a 550 credit score or something and no job. I mean, they had to be within reason. But very quickly, it was changing W2s, changing pay subs, changing appraisals, fixing, like I said, verification of rent.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. “I mean, when that went through, you know, I think a normal person probably would have said Wow, that was a one time thing. Got away with it. I'm good. But for me, it just emboldened me. Like I just got to check for like, I don't know what it was, 25, $3,500. I was thrilled. And by that time, I was already working on another deal. But that guy. He made, I forget, something like, he had made like, let's say, $45,000 the year before in his W-2. Based on his current track record or his year to date of his pay stub, he made just enough money. But if you factored in last year's W2, he was shy. So if I change that $45,000 to $51,000,”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. “Right, right. For some reason People tend to like me and trust me. I don't know why it hasn't worked out for so many people, but people naturally seem to trust me. And so if I say, hey, I can close the loan, but you got to do this. It'll be cool. Don't worry, we do it all the time. It's like my third loan. And, you know, I've been doing this for years. And they go, okay. And then they raise the purchase price. They add some money. They have the seller of the house give the borrower some money. They stick it in the bank or they put it in an escrow at the closing company. Like now you're starting to massage deals.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  39. “But subprime, that's not the case. You got borrowers with horrific job history. They don't have enough of the down payment. Maybe they have the down payment, but they don't have the closing costs. So you have to go to the real estate agent and say, listen, I need you to raise the purchase price and have the seller pay the closing costs, which is legal, but that's not. A degree, but that's not how they wrote up the contract. So now you're having to get them to rewrite the contract or there's little things you're trying to do. And the more deals you get done and the more you deal with certain real estate agents, the more you start to realize that they're, you know, you know which ones are completely above board and which ones are willing to twist the rules.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  40. “Well, one, you've got clients that have lots of options. They can go to Bank of America. They can go to Sun Trust. They can go to Chase. They have options. If they have perfect credit, I ended up working for a company that was a subprime lender. And those people didn't have a lot of options. Honestly, by the time they got to Eagle lending, their options were over. So what ended up ends up happening is you're negotiating with sellers. You would think that a lot of the stuff that in that industry that real estate agents Should do the brokers end up doing because real estate agents are used to you meet them at the house or they take you to several houses. They open the door, they walk around, they write up a contract that's legit, a legit contract, and you already pre-approved. Everything works out.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  41. “Said it's just your salesman. And I was like, because I was like, you know, I barely balanced my checkbook. I don't know anything about numbers. And she's like, this has nothing to do with that. It's sales. It's putting together deals. You know, you're good at that. You're good at negotiating. You're a natural salesman. And I figured I need to try something.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  42. “29, I think it was 29. I had gone to college and so many things had not worked out. You know, I got a degree in fine arts. There's not a lot of people looking for anyone with a fine arts degree. I try to be a. Try to be an insurance adjuster. Try that for about a year, year and a half. That didn't work out. Ended up working construction for a few years. So finally, the girl I was dating said, You got to be a mortgage broker. She's just had just started as a mortgage in the mortgage industry. And she was like, you have to do this. Like you were born to do this. This is perfect for you.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  43. “And she handed me, I'd white it out, make a copy, stick it back in the file. She said, It'll be fine. And I went, I was like, that's fraud. I could go to jail. And she goes. And she was like, they're never going to catch it. She said, look, we do stuff. I do stuff all the time. She said, they're not going to catch it. And nobody's calling the FBI. She was the worst case scenario if underwriting catches it. They'll fire you. That's it. Nobody's calling. You're not going to jail. And I trusted her. I was like, okay. And so I did what she said. I stuck it in the file. And I mean, like I said, for four or five days, I was like, oh my God, I'm so scared of.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  44. “And this was like my first month. So my very first deal, three or four weeks into it, into that first month. And I walk in, I put the file in front of my manager. She looks through everything. Oh, great. Good. Good. And put this one piece of paper over here and sat there. And then when she was done, I said, what's going on? She goes, perfect. File's perfect. She goes, but your borrow was 30 day late on her rent. And she says that's it's done. She's like, that's a deal killer. And I was like, oh my gosh, you know, what do I do? And I remember she pulled out a thing, a whiteout, the whiteout, not the sticks, but it went. And she started going. And I was like, what? She goes, if I was you.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  45. “The manager, what is funny because I don't think I ever really mentioned this. Her name was Gretchen Zayas. She eventually, I don't mind saying she eventually ended up going to jail for fraud. Her name was Gretchen Zayas, and she was a manager. I was working for a company called Eagle Lending. And it was in Tampa.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  46. “I mean, I was worried. I always say, you know, I sweated bullets for four or five days. But I mean, I was concerned. And I don't know that I was concerned that I had broken the law. I was concerned because I was behind on my truck payment. I was behind on my mortgage. Like I had banked on being a mortgage broker and I'd gone deep, deep behind on all my bills to do this. So in the last minute when this loan isn't going to close and I have to commit fraud to make that happen and the idea of my fear was they were going to figure it out and maybe I'd get fired. I didn't think I was going to go to jail because my manager assured me you're not going to jail. You'll get fired at best. So, my concern was they were going to catch it and I get fired, and I wouldn't get paid. Like I needed that money so bad.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  47. “So when you go into the bank and most of what they're asking is a two year window, they're saying, how long have you been on their job? They care about two years. And how long have you been at your residency? They're looking for two years. Now, you could be at three places in two years. That's fine as long as you consistently paid for two years. Well, she had been in an apartment complex, but she'd been 30 days late. Now she caught it up, but she was late. The bank doesn't want to lend you money if you've been 30 days late. So I was a broker and I whited out the 30-day late. I just got rid of it. And my manager is the person that told me to do it. She said it'll be fine. And she was right, it was.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  48. “Right. You have to be able to lie to the bank anytime you lie to the bank, you've committed fraud. And it's funny when I was doing it, I would say it's in the gray area. There's no gray area. You're either lying in some capacity or you're not. For instance, the very first loan I did, I white it out my borrower. Had been thirty days late on her rent. So they're really looking at the last two years.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  49. “$60,000 a year, and he's been there for five years, and he saved his deposit. Like, it's a very, that's really the guy that those transactions are set up for to borrow a mortgage from Bank of America. That's the guy they're looking for.”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  50. “It's very difficult for the average guy to commit fraud because there's so many safeguards set up. You know, if you were to go in and say, I make $300,000 a year, okay, well, we want your W2s, we want your pay stubs, we're going to call your employer, we're going to check to make sure your employer how long they've been incorporated. We're going to check to make sure they're registered. It's like, your whole plan fell apart, you know, because the average guy can't do that. He can't even come up with the pay step in W2. So the average person, you know, or I'm going to put down this much money, but you're going to borrow that money from the seller. You know, okay, well, then they start asking for bank statements. Where did the money come from? How long has it been in your bank? Like you can't even have it put in your bank for a day. Get a letter. You know, it's got to have been there for 90 days or 60 days depending on the bank. And so there's all these ways for the average person. It's very difficult to commit for fraud. The average guy that works at Walmart and makes”

    2024-01-17 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #409 – Matthew Cox: FBI Most Wanted Con Man – $55 Million in Bank Fraud · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source