YouSaid · the spoken record

Sally Kohn

lines on the record: 178
first: 2018-04-30
most recent: 2018-04-30
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I will wait a second. Let's think hard. Keep trying to, you know, but that means I also have to keep, you know. Yep, help others learn, keep learning myself.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I, you know, I put a lot into this book. So, I'm gonna hopefully, you know, hope it finds its audience and it makes a difference that it does some good for people, that a lot of really warm responses and reactions for people who are struggling with these issues in their workplace, in their towns, in their families, who want to, who listen, who see the conversations we're having in this country about bias and privilege and they want to.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The history is littered with people who agree. I like people who don't. No, I'm kidding. No, you know I try to agree, but I don't get a lot of pushing back with people is a very good quality. Thanks for the great question. So it'll be interesting, but it does become weaponized in this thing, and I think we're in for some trouble going forward, especially it's going to get worse before.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Just write that book. You know, it was a lot about coming out. It was like, I don't negotiate with terrorists. I don't give anything. I do not negotiate with terrorists. And that's how I looked on it. I did it with an uncle who was very anti-gay. And I said, same thing. I was like, you know what? All we have to do is wait for you to die because that's how it's going to, you're not going to change. Like I gave up on him. And he's still alive.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Content what you wanted to say bridge. Mine would be belittle. You obviously can't read something like that, something nice along those lines. I got to think years would be out of the house. I have actually thrown my mother out of the house when she drives me crazy. Drives me crazy”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Find a way to go to. No, just let's literally interstitial language to get you from your A to your C. Right. That isn't a but. Because what we tend to do is say I'm also worried about that.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Go ahead now. And I love you. You're an idiot It ends, right? B is not but I've learned from public counseling means that everything before the but you didn't mean so if I say I'm sorry but it means I'm not at all sorry so it's not but you can't say however which is like the Harvard of buts no fancy butts you say something like and or that's why or the thing is or it's just the break is but but not be as bridge bridge”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I worry about that too. I worry about my kids being able to get a job. I worry about this. I worry about safety. Right. Affirm. The bee is not butt.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And what you believe. So, what you do when you affirm is you say you find something you can actually authentically affirm.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which doesn't, by the way, mean agree, right? But look, most of us are political views and our ideas. Or not even. It can be even more meaningful than that, which is most of our political views we didn't sit and read, you know, all the briefing books to decide what we think about issue A and issue B. We have feelings. Right. I feel this. I feel that. We can argue until the cows come home about whether people's feelings are invalid, right? So example, that people fear terrorism. Well, we could talk about how since 9-11 most mass violent attacks, three-quarters were committed by white right extremists. But the media covers acts from violent acts from Muslim extremists four times more. And we could say that's an irrational fear and you shouldn't be worried about, right? But there they are. They feel it. And feelings are not like facts. Feelings are valid because they are felt. And if I argue with your feelings, it's like I'm invalidating you.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So this mnemonic, this tool ABC, which comes from Matt Cohut, John Nefinger, and Seth Pendleton, and Matt and John wrote a really important book called Compelling People About this philosophy in war. The A is not argue, it's a firm.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Instead of putting on a dell. You want to know what's funny is like 80% of the questions I get from liberals are like, so what do I do about my conservative uncle? It's always an uncle. And what we know from neurosciences when we're trying to persuade someone, you're trying to have the kind of conversation that leads to change. If people perceive an argument, they feel like their views are being attacked, then the frontal lobe, the part, the persuasion, rational thought parts of the brain shut down, and the lizard brain, the fight or flight turns on and you pick a side. And I'm going to pick my side, you're going to pick your side. That's why we were arguing in the first place. And then we're done. There's no conversation happening. There's no change. There's no thinking. There's no understanding is happening.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's a definitely fine line. That's the whole premise of Batman. So if you think about it. So last thing I want you to talk about, I know you've got to go, is this ABC thing that you have in the book because you do have prescriptions. I do. Cool. Explain that. Explain that tool for me”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm going to count it because I'm going to kill it. I am a little less forgiving than you are, and I feel like it works for me. But that's okay. That's good. I get your point. You don't want to live in hate, but I do want to live in anger a little bit more than I think we do. It has a useful, and there is a fine line. Yeah.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is I'm not going to be the excuse for anyone to be their worst self. I'm going to try to not be the excuse for anyone to be their worst self. I'm going to try Try to be the inspiration, for others to be their best selves, read them.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, no, no. I was going to say my big takeaway when you ask what I think about is I think about, all right, if we have this, they started at Philosophy of Hate.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Kara, Mattea, people should do them. I'm doing me. This is a book about you wrote a book. Oh, I don't description. But it's, well, there's no expectation or demand. This is about my journey of what I think is healthy and hopeful. I don't know. All right. Which is, well, I was going to say, which is, oh, go ahead, sorry. Oh, go ahead. That's your show. No, go ahead. Go ahead with Laura Ingram”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Never seen that work. Not in terms of hate and retrenchment and digging it. Right. Right. And I will say this. This is my big takeaway. So you asked sort of what can people do?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Good. Again, what's the choice? Would we rather her dig in and not apologize or apologize? Now, was it a perfect apology? Was it whatever? Was it motivated by losing ads? Was it whatever? But like... I'd still rather apologize than not apologize. And I'm a little old fashioned that when people apologize, I want to give people the benefit of the doubt. But, you know, because I want to give them the space to change otherwise. I just want to be the person who helps her dig in her heels and just then say, oh, screw them. I'm just going to do more mean things and more hateful things. Right. No. I don't want at least.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When I saw what she'd done, I tweeted about it. Yeah. This was weeks ago, obviously. I tweeted about it. And when I saw she apologized I said, I'm not saying he has to apologize or forgive. Me. I thought.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah. I mean, but, you know, look, why don't I give you more fodder? When Laura Ingram apologized for going after Parkland kid. David. David. Yeah. Yeah.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“She's a good person. She, this came up before. She apologized. I also believe in forgiveness and change. And I thought, I want to support her. Right. I want to support her. I want to be. I know you must her past things, which are actually.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, no, no, no, no, no, no. In fact, I think in general, trying less reactive tweeting is better. I thought this is someone, here's what I thought. I thought this was someone I care about going through this.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Listen, part of living your values, part of me living my values and standing up for what I think is right is means you do it even when there are costs. And so you sent that tweet. She addressed this. I want”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, no, no. Well, it's because I've also realized. Well, I'll tell you this. I've also realized that the incentives, it seems, to attack online are greater than the incentives to defend. Right. That people feel that there seems to be less social cost or social risk to joining the attack and more risk. That's what I was looking at. I was fascinated that you did that. I was like, oh, Sally.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, and you're right in it. Well, I think you respond with kindness. I mean, I do. I actually, listen, I don't, you want to talk specifically about joy?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it is. I do worry it's getting worse too. That in sort of, in general, that we are in this kind of perpetual cycle of outrage that is not constructive.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And you notice because there's like an uptick in right. I can sneeze on the internet and they write a Twitchy post about it. So I had, I was not a stranger to that, but it's in general, right? This sort of, it does feel like the phenomenon is heightening and the consequences are heightening. Right. They seem to have, they're more lasting and more durable. And again, listen, first of all, Joy's a friend. I'm going to talk to Joy. I'm not going to...”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh my gosh, wait. Everyone, I get to teach Kara Swish or something about the internet. All right, go ahead. Okay. Twitchy is. To mobilize the right wing Twitter. But like right. So it's like a milk. Yeah, I've had some days where I get like.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh my gosh, wait, everyone. I get to teach Kara Swish or something about the internet. All right, go ahead. Okay. Twitchy is the website that Michelle Malkin started to mobilize the right-wing Twitter. I don't like the word Twitter mob, but like right-wing Twitter, I need a different word than swarms. Twitter swarms. So it's like, I've had some days where I get twitchied three times a day.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, to be clear, I've been on the other side of this too for quite a while. Right. So in other words, I'm not, you know Twitchy, right?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“People focus on intentions when impact is correct about this as well. And... Again, wish I had done it differently. Deeply sorry. Continue to be sorry? Try to learn and do better.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I hope to, right? But I have no doubt I will continue to make missteps and mistakes. Like I said, I know intention isn't the only thing that matters. Impact matters. Yeah, I don't understand.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Failed in that regard is on me. And again, look, you know, I mean, look, one of the things I've tried to be fairly upfront about throughout my career, including when I was on Fox News and on CNN, is to talk about implicit bias, implicit bias in general, and implicit racial bias in particular in ways that are not about finger-pointing and telling people you need to learn, but are in ways that are about copying to my bias. In fact, when I'm talking about it, I'm not just talking in abstracts, I'm talking about me. And I recognize that unlearning that undoing it, countering it, checking it, catching it, fixing it. Is going to be maybe a lifelong process. I don't know. I don't know if you.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I'm not sure. Well, look, I'm sure don't think it's not deeply convinced it can happen on social media. We tend to lose nuance, not gain nuance on social media. I think that's increasingly true. But the fact is it should be able to happen in books. And so the fact that I...”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Very listen, I've done it a million times. I would call it sloppy analysis because we've gotten so sloppy about how we arguments are nuanced. So, how do you get out of that very important concept of not Making everybody straw men, not making everybody to make a larger point. What do you have? Is it possible in this medium? Because your book is about this medium and its impact and how you get out of it. Is it actually possible to do that?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I do, I think at the heart of this is the white privilege idea, and I do think that is a very good point in terms of using people's words to make a point that is not the point they're making. You know what I mean? Not even understanding what their point was. I think that to me was the most resonant part of this away from all the details of the quotes and things like that. that you have to create, all media has to create this juxtaposition that happens. And I think social media reduces things to one black and white so clearly kind of thing. And I think you did that in that instance and that comparison. I think it happens all the time. There's no middle ground to anything. There's no nuance in conversation.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Accepting that's who I am and trying to do better. And I will continue even when they're painful. But to welcome the opportunities to keep learning, it's the only way I'm going to get better.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That they had a disagreement. That is, you know, listen, like this is, I'll be honest. I'm losing track of what the data is. It's been two weeks, right? So there is no question that I still have. Learning and growing to do. By the way, I already have learning and growing to do. It's not like I started out two weeks ago. Perfect. Right. I have a lot of blind spots and imperfections and work to do on myself. And I'm going to have to keep.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Look, it's very clear that I was not thinking about the context of the quote and the two sort of frames that I'd used and their words and how they were then pitted against each other. Because they didn't agree.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, you can say this. Hey, whatever. I can keep apologizing. Amina is going to, no, no, no. I have no right to demand, respect an apology. I mean, forgiveness. Right. Correct. That is correct And I am going to try to for me, right, when these moments happen and I'm whichever side, to handle them with kindness, compassion, and grace that give people the opportunity to grow and change. Because that's what I think the only way we get better. I don't.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That people are not, as Brian Stevenson says, people are not the worst thing they've ever done. I also don't think they're the worst thing they've ever said or the worst thing they've ever thought. And I want to give people the opportunity now that's a choice. That is a choice. That is a choice based on my own sense of sanity and security that I am able to make. By the way, it's why I wanted to, what's one of the reasons I try to take on this work because I don't think it should be the burden of people of color to always be talking to white folks about racism and being forgotten.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that's right. That goes back, if I can, that goes back to the conversation we were having previously about then how do we engage with people in those moments. I'd rather talk about this sort of broad principles, which is I don't want to sit there and say, I write you off. I want to. Engage and invite. I don't want to call people out. I don't want to call them in. I want to assume.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We can try as hard as we can. And so that's one thing I would love to hear what she thinks about this topic, not this, because she's quite a lot to say about this and is very, very interesting and innovative ideas about it. Secondly, I think getting these kind of learnings are helpful because what we do is we, every different group bumbles through life not understanding the experiences of other people. And I think that is probably the greatest thing here is that you don't understand your impact. You don't understand what other people's experiences are. And what I do think at the heart of what”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Think I should do? What I think you should do is probably have a public as I wanted to have a public stuff with her to understand what you really think. I do know what she really thinks about this, but I want her to speak on her own, on this issue of the book itself, not her particular quote about online. There's all kinds of things because as a person of color, she has a different experience online. And that's almost impossible to understand from where we sit”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't want to, like, look, we can rehash and relitigate what happened in the car and the nature of the quote and whatever. But what I am sure of is that I printed. Words that hurt someone. And I don't want to do that. Right, right. So I don't want to keep hurting someone by rehashing, relitigating. I'm sorry.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, but now it's, I mean, we took it out of the digital edition. It wasn't searchable. So it's now very public. And now everyone knows about it. So I have to tell you, so part of the reason I...”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“She raised her concerns. I apologized, took her name understanding the impact and that she did not want that quote out there, took it out of the digital editions, future print editions, took her name right. Made a public apology that she asked to make or else she said she would go public. I did not. Obviously there are other reasons I didn't want to go public, right? But also... Also, she didn't want the cold public. It wasn't, right?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Carrot, can I just say I do understand and that's why that's why again privately for weeks when Amina came to me with her concerns. I showed her the quote because I thought it was an important quote that in the context it was being used was challenging me on the whole premise of my book and my privilege in asserting these points. That's why I thought it was such an important book.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And Right. Okay. So again, I'm going to get back to it. I understand that. I know. I know you've been talking about this a lot. I get that. And you look frustrated with it. But my question is, it is at the heart of your book is these miscommunications online that I think are at the heart of all these places because a lot of this is playing out online. This is going on. And I think one of the issues is how we hear each other, not you necessarily has gotten super sloppy, how we hear each other, how we engage with each other, because these mediums create that situation and that people are not as careful one hearing each other correctly or they hear what they want to hear, thinking about the impact, because these things have bigger impact than you and I, I do understand how big impact they have and when you put someone into, when you say something and it's linked to them, it”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT