YouSaid · the spoken record

Sally Kohn

lines on the record: 178
first: 2018-04-30
most recent: 2018-04-30
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“And he said something about how a family with a mother and father is a better family, a better environment for children. And I said. Something to the effect of”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Don't switch a listen, I can sit, right? So let me give an example. Let's go back to Hannity for a second, right? When I was on Hannity's radio show once and he said something to the effect of, we were talking about marriage equality at the time. It was not yet law, the law of the land. And we were having whatever the debate was.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Absolutely, right? You know, what's coming back now is interesting as Angels in America. And if you look at those last speeches, it's not about conciliation. It's about continue to stay angry. You know what I mean? Right. Continue to stay.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“About people. Right. Mm-hmm. I'd have to say pushing it only worked. It seems to me that it worked because the movement got more radical and got more no, I don't know. She's using it in a different sense, but Oprah's lying no is a complete sentence. No worked a lot better than, well, let me let you understand me. And I get there was parts of it, you know, having Alan come out, all these educational parts. And by the way, you know people and there's lots of, you know, reaching out and stuff is I find, especially in the more progressive areas, there's a lot more of that than on the other side. But beating them back seemed to be the thing that worked. If I look back on it, the real, and there was great beauty in doing all the stuff around the quilt, and there's great beauty and artfulness.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then you still have a choice, right? Are you going to attack everyone on the other side and label them all as intentionally hateful, malicious, homophobic bigots? And by the way, not just, we're not even just talking about the George Bushes or the world and the FDA heads and the, right? We're talking about people. People who are like, huh, I'm trying to decide what I'm going to believe. No one, like, and are we bringing them in? Are we bringing them into conversation? Are we bringing them in to open their minds? Or are we pushing them away and closing them off?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, but I am talking about, I think, listen, I think the gay and lesbian bind trans righteous movement is a perfect example because even within those dynamics, even within those spectrums, we can go name by name by name and example by example, right? But there were people who were angry and outraged about the harm and the death and the pain and the marginalization that was being inflicted on the queer community.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, like, I don't think compromise, right? So you're looking for, I am proud still to be a radical. So I'm not talking about a politics of concession or compromise, conciliation or mushy centrism. God help me know.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, except for the fact that, again, when you want to get between hate and anger, when I look back on, say, the gay and lesbian movement, the people who were most effective were the angriest, and one would call them hateful. They were not. It's a very hard to discern between them, but silence equals death, act up. I think it had more effect than the others who compromised almost continually.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It is also protection. Hey, that other side over there, Mrs. The way they treat me like I'm a piece of shit and they think I'm stupid. And they hate me I'm going to go give their ideas a listen. Like, I'm going to go over there, and that sounds cool. I want to be part of them. Sure. Right. What it actually does is it makes us dig in.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If I want those folks to not support Islamophobic policies and racist policing and right, then I will tell you, in addition to the moral dimension, pragmatically speaking, hating them is counterproductive.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is not the answer to hate. Cruelty is not the answer to cruelty. Injustice is not the answer to injustice. So there's that dimension, sort of, right? There's also a practical piece to this. And I look at the book at the neuroscience of it. We look at the sort of practical organizing strategy pieces of it as well. The simple fact is if I want people to change, and as I said, I believe people can. I believe the world can change. It doesn't mean it has, doesn't mean it always has, doesn't mean it always will, doesn't mean it don't do it stupidly, imperfectly, haltingly, hesitantly, right? But if I wanted to change, if I want those people to not vote like that again.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, first of all, again, goes back to, as I said, there are two pieces. So we talked about the moral piece. The other piece is the, and so fundamentally, it feels in contradiction with my values and who I want to be and how I want the world to be, to be hateful. And I know that hate...”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I felt that hate before, by the way. I felt that that was part of the sort of reckoning that I had at Fox News of realizing that people weren't in total the hateful monsters I imagine them to be. Not that they still don't do hateful and support hateful things. And I felt that coming back, I sort of thought I'd wrestled with that and really done some soul searching on that. But 2016 and the aftermath, I felt it again.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, it doesn't. I mean, this is, you know, someone Maya Wiley the other day in a book event with me who's a phenomenal race and justice scholar said that compassion isn't the same thing as affirmation right I can understand where someone's coming from I can even you know just validate their existence I can even just have sympathy empathy for another human being without endorsing supporting affirming what they stand for or what they're doing right and literally it's I look I want compassion humanity equality and justice for myself it can't just be a one-way street”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure, right doing. So it doesn't mean it's okay for me to do it. I mean, listen, there's two pieces to this, ultimately, Kara. One is moral. So, one of the reasons I'm a progressive, one of the reasons I have the worldview and value, one of my core values is the idea that all people have equal dignity and humanity. Now I say that, right? The question is, can I live it? And can I apply that even to people who deny my humanity? That doesn't mean complicity. That doesn't mean capitulation. You get what?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“At those injustices and even angry at the people who perpetuate them. And that's different from hate. That's different from demeaning and dehumanizing certain groups of people because of their ideas or their identity. It's different.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right? Yeah. The difference between anger and hate. Right. As an organizer, going back to sort of my training and my roots, anger can be a very good thing. I want people to look at the inequity and injustice sort of yawning economic inequality and crumbling public schools and injustices in who and how we incarcerate people. And I want them to be angry. They should be righteously angry”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's okay. Thank you. Thank you. Can we go back, though? You said something on the outroat that I want to make sure I pick up on, which is I do think there's a difference between anger and hate.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of course not, but he's the ex. Let's get that. We're going to take a break really quickly. We're going to talk about this because I want to get to your book because that's the heart of your book, is this idea that everybody is redeemable. I do not believe that. I believe we stay angry at certain people and we can discuss that later. But when we get back, after a word from our sponsors, we're going to be back in a minute. We're here with Sally Cohn, the author of the opposite of hate and other things. She does other things. Anyway, stop laughing, Sally. I've got to read this promo.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But also, what's the choice? Would we rather, at the time, in his heyday, he was the top white power movement recruiter in North America? Would we rather him still be that?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right? Because they know because the things he did and the things he believed and I can't forgive and I can't whatever. First of all, I believe in forgiveness. I believe in redemption. I do. Right. Again, it's why I'm a progressive.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There are lines you can draw. And also, again, let's go back to, so in the book, I talked to an ex-white supremacist. Now, I've had a lot of people who've said even just talking to an ex-white supremacist is a line too far for them.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The point isn't Sean. The point is for people to I don't know about that in this case. That's someone I would have a real problem engaging with. Look, this is someone who just interviewed Anthony Scaramucci. Right? Right. Different.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Look, I don't think, I don't, I don't write people off. One of the reasons I'm a progressive is because I believe in progress. That means I believe in change. I think most of the changes that need to happen in our world are at the level of policy and institutions and systems. And those changes happen also when people change. And I know people can change. And if I didn't think people could change, I wouldn't be doing this work. And so Sean is a vessel, and I'd rather him be kind to me than unkind to me because frankly I don't like unkindness. Right”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't get it And it's because no matter what, I stood true to my values. Look, I wasn't a spokesperson for anyone or any cause, spokesperson for me, but I stood for my values and I always made a point of standing firm in my beliefs and my truth. And so You know, look. And same thing with Sean. I'll still have people, of course, who are like, what the hell? How can you, whatever? Can I say hell on this? Yes. Fuck. Who will also come up and say, what the fuck?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Constructive engagement, building constituencies for change, the idea that we have been divided, manipulated and turned against each other in ways that are deliberate and unconstructive and that we can actually, we don't have to write whole communities off, but we can do something about that. And so, you know, I mean, again, maybe I don't, but I would have people like Juan Williams say, like, how do you deal with when I was on Fox, how do you deal with the hate mail you get from the left?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't because I think, look, I come from, this is about sort of, again, just like the center left isn't a monolith. Left isn't a monolith. And I come from a part of the left that has always been interested in engagement. Right.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, listen. Right. Yeah. So you stay there for a while. One of the things I get that you were friendly with Sean Hannity. He has a quote in your book and things like that. How did your constituency react to that? Or how did you explain that?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't know if you know her. Gene was a political scientist who pioneered the study of the right wing before the internet would actually go and infiltrate right-wing meetings and conventions and conferences. And she said. That we have to separate the leaders from the followers. That the leaders have a culpability, an intentionality, a malice, right, but that I don't think, yes, sure, of course there are some people who watch Fox News who are intending to be whipped up and hateful and furied and all of that. And there are people who just, for whatever host of reasons, That's where they go, said the And I don't want them to only get a diet of hate and lies and outrage and attacks. And misinformation.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I, by the way, happen to think our disagreements. Yours, mine, and our disagreements in general in the world, and our differences are important. And part of what make us great as people and as a country. I also think we can disagree in ways that are respectful, kind, compassionate. So, do you have trouble?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, except that I don't know that's where the banks are saying where the banks are, but it's bad. I don't make, I don't, right, but that doesn't mean that the people who are banking there are bad people.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's very important. I mean, I think one of the things is it does normalize someone like that who just literally is a ball of rage as follows I can tell. And it's the Thunder Dome. That's the issue. You're in the Thunder Dorm and when people are in this sort of rage filled anger zone, is that the place to engage with?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Conversations were you predominantly talking to people like yourself. Which, by the way, I don't actually have a problem with. People call it preaching to the choir. I call it choir rehearsal. It's very important for people to get on the same page and talk strategy and share core values, right?”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, it's like, again, this is the paradox of existence right now in so many ways, I think. And especially at a time, I mean, one of the things that's great about podcasts and The Rise of New Media is you can have media that is outside of those address. On the other hand, then what you end up with is”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I appreciated the humanity you brought to that issue. I appreciated the right that if I could have that impact, to me, I'm not saying every single time I thought it was worth it. I'm not saying every single time I thought it was strategic. Right.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Voice of sanity. Am I the Strawman or am I the voice of sanity? You know, if I'm here, at least if I can say one or two things that, right, for every time I had those doubts, every time I got all the hate mail For every time I got an email saying Look, I don't agree with you, blah blah blah, but you made a good point.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I believe because I believe the change. Look I am increasingly skeptical. About our capacity for. Constructive, nuanced. Deep democratic dialogue. You know, what I would consider to be democratically nutritional. Engagement In the media today, in social media today, and we can, who started it and what started it? I mean, I'm like, listen, I can't You are speaking to the fear I woke up with every day. Right? Am I a puppet being used in the show? Am I the, you know,”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Combined. All right. Yeah, you want to get to them. I believe because I believe you have reservations. I'm going to give you a hard time with this because I really do think that they used you in a lot of ways. Say more. Because same thing with Alana. It just was just as their circus. They have a circus and they have a, it's a formulaic in a way that's all of them are. Listen, listen, every one of them is. And they're not there to illuminate. They're there to part us, divide us, and create all kinds of narratives that are not illuminating in any way.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I would literally give my left arm for him to stick with that and keep fighting for that. That would make more of a difference in immigration reform than anything I could ever say or do. So I recognize that is possible. But primarily the reason I was there was not to talk to Sean to he was the excuse to talk to the viewers. And at the time, 2010, 2011.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, why would I go on from there? Where do the minds are to be changed? Your motivations. But the question is when I, right? So it's like, look, it took me a few times to realize that I wasn't there to talk to Hannity. Was never going to change Hannity's mind. Now, mind you, I just want to say, I don't know if you remember in 2012 when Hannity, after the re-election of Barack Obama, came out in support of a path to citizenship for immigrants and said that”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yes, first of all, That Well, that side of humanity? Why I did it. We should talk about why I I get it. So why would I go on from there to where the minds are to be changed? I suppose, but I think you're there to be the bearded lady for them. For them. I'm talking about your motivations. But the question is, when...”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so that I was actually to the left of them and what that meant and what that meant in the particular stew of Fox News. And from my perspective and opinion was they weren't aware of the distinction I was keenly aware of it. And the other thing is, and this is what really leads to the book in a lot of ways. First of all, it was the first time I started getting hate mail and hate tweets. So that was a whole reckoning with a side of humanity. Well, we can talk about why I did it. We should talk about why I did it because I think, you know, listen, I believe in change. Right. Right. And, you know, look, why do people rob banks? It's because it's where the money is.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I was like, yeah, here's the thing they didn't, and Roger, I don't think, ever understood this, that he didn't under, and a lot of folks at Fox didn't understand the difference between the sort of spectrum of the Democratic left. So for them, I was interchangeable with Kristen Powers or Juan Williams or whatever. I was a liberal”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and be like, I wanted them to hold me accountable and tell me what they think. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? What's the, and so worked through it with that community of folks who were supportive, who in fact said, look, there's going to be someone we'd rather be you. You'll stand up for our values. You'll write. And so that was, so I decided to do it. And I was a...”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A year prior when I even went on Fox, which is I called literally my it was my friends from organizing who were running the campaigns to try to shut down Fox. Right.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“After I like Fox. We're going to save that. We don't have pretty, is that what they call a teaser? We're going to save that. So anyway, and then he asked if I wanted to be a contributor. And so what I did was I actually did at that moment what I'd done.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I saw him, I waved at him. He waved back. Next day, he calls me up. We have, he invites me to his office. He tells me I have pretty eyes. Oh. Five times In five minutes. I think I got off easy. I think you did. Thank you. And remind me to tell you what he said.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That was, so talk a little bit about this. You were on Sean's show a lot, Hannity's show a lot. You were on, I shouldn't call him Sean, I don't know him, you were on his show a lot, and other show. Were you on other shows too? Yeah.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Was about a year after that episode with Jerry, and it was on Sean Hannity's show Primetime with SC Cup. We were debating public funding for public media for NPR and PBS. That was it”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Her name is Lauren Fretzov shared the story. She now works at WeWork. She worked for Governor Christy. She's wonderful. And so it was, so my first national television appearance ever.”
2018-04-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sally Kohn · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT