James Lawless
Kildare North · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“I am always open to feedback. The academics and authors of that report are entitled to their views, as are others. I just do not share all of their conclusions. As the Deputy said, the consultant spending was before my time. A lot of it was before the Department even existed.”
“More broadly, and this is something I think there is great potential to do more on, we are also promoting modern methods of construction, MMC, so we can embrace 2D or 3D models where they are either partially assembled off site and then brought to the location or almost fully assembled and the finished kit is brought into place.”
“In the energy space, that includes a commitment of €10 billion to enhance the grid capacity, because we need to be able to transit the energy as well as generate it, the workforce and the talent to do that - everything from retrofitting to green energy technicians and renewable energy engineers.”
“The capital funding envelop available to me is the mechanism through which I fund these projects, which is significant with €4.55 billion allocated across my Department for capital projects. SETU is the relevant institute in the south east, and it has multiple campuses, including a presence in the Xcelerate Centre at St.”
“I will recap on some of the measures I have introduced already because it is important to put them on the record again. In the previous budget, I was pleased to introduce the first ever permeant fee cut for students since free fees were introduced almost 30 years ago with a €500 permanent reduction.”
“Exactly. That is why we have a record €4.5 billion commitment across the sector. Regarding student facilities, there is the likes of the bundle 2 PPP programme which enhances student facilities on university campuses across the country.”
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“That is why we are paying the fees for 143,000 students and supporting 66,600 students in part or in full with the student contribution fee. However, I am open to the conversation on how we can target those who really need the support.”
“If there are gaps in the system, these are exactly what I want to identify in the consultation. If the eligibility thresholds need to be examined, bars need to be widened or gaps need to be addressed, this should be done. I am unconvinced by the concept of having no means test or a free-for-all, based on our saying we will have universal abolition. I do not know whether Deputy Boyd Barrett agrees with me. The programme for Government refers to a sustained reduction in a financially sustainable way, not about abolition. Deputy McGettigan referred to a reduction to zero. That would be abolition. That is not mentioned in the programme for Government. I want to support students and their families and make education accessible.”
“There are a couple of reasons they would not be paid. In this regard, a student may be doing a second degree course or may come from outside this State. There are a couple of technical categories but the vast majority of undergraduate students have their fees paid in full by the State. In addition, the student contribution fee, which is a separate charge for one's course, is met in almost half of cases in full or in part by the State. I absolutely understand that there are those who are put to the pins of their collars, as Deputy McGettigan put it. I know some and engage with them in my constituency and in my normal business. What I want to understand is why they are not eligible for SUSI grants and the existing supports. There are existing supports.”
“Deputy Boyd Barrett asked about the temporary reduction. It was a temporary reduction; that is the point. It is important that we put it on a more sustainable, long-lived, permanent track, and that is part of the consultation I intend to hold with students, student bodies, stakeholders and universities to understand what would be a more holistic, sustainable formula to meet the cost of education for students and their families. I appreciate that Deputy McGettigan said I am bamboozling her with figures, but 66,600 students already receive a student contribution from the State, in full or in part, towards the student contribution, in addition to the 143,000 students who have their fees, apart from the student contribution, paid in full. There are very few undergraduates who do not have their fees paid by the State.”
“My aim is to provide an opportunity for all stakeholders to have their say to inform the debate and my policy formulation on the cost-of-education issues. Following the event, I intend to publish an options paper, which will identify costs and potential impacts of various policy options identified, with the overall goal of reducing the cost of higher education. This will inform decisions on budget 2026. I look forward to the engagement and the policy discussion that will inevitably follow.”
“All benefited from fee supports from the State, regardless of means, under the free fees scheme. Notwithstanding these figures, which are important to put on the record to inform the debate, no decisions have been made and we are still early in the budget process. I am very much open to views and stakeholder feedback and I am inviting interested parties to a cost-of-education event that I intend to hold and chair next week. I will be hearing from students, representatives of the student population, access officers, student services employees, people who work with students on a day-to-day basis, advocacy organisations and those who advocate for under-represented students in education and minorities, and policymakers.”
“It is important to state that many students and their families do not pay the student contribution because their costs are covered by SUSI grants. In the last academic year, over 43,000 students had their full contribution paid for through SUSI, over 7,600 students received a 50% contribution, and a further 16,000 students had a €500 reduction in the student contribution fee. This means that 66,600 students in total, or almost half of all students, had the student contribution fee paid in full or in part by the State. In addition to those supports, my Department also paid out €368 million in the academic year in question as part of a free fees initiative, which benefited all eligible students progressing through third level, amounting to some 143,000.”
“To extrapolate that over the term of the Government that is €1.5 billion. These are significant figures. I have an open mind on the Deputies' suggestions but I am sure the Deputies will agree that there are other competing priorities chasing those same scarce resources. In considering how we can continue to address financial burdens for students and their families in a long-term, sustainable way, I am conscious of the opportunity costs and trade-offs associated with any policy option. We have to allocate resources in the fairest, most effective way possible. Given the reality of finite resources, allocations should be made in a targeted way to ensure those students most in need will be supported.”
“I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 5 together. The programme for Government does indeed commit to reducing the student contribution in a financially sustainable manner over the lifetime of the Government. As part of the cost-of-living packages over the last three budgets the student contribution was reduced by €1,000 per annum on a temporary basis at a net cost of circa €99 million per annum. These measures were in response to particular cost-of-living challenges arising at the time and were not intended to be a permanent solution. It is worth extrapolating the figures in totality. A €1,000 reduction of the type we saw during the cost-of-living measures equates to €99 million. A €2,000 reduction would equate to €200 million, and the full abolition, which the Deputy calls for, would equate to €300 million per annum.”
“I thank the Deputy. A review is ongoing across the whole sector. There are many different types of apprenticeships now. There are the craft apprenticeships, which are related to construction skills, there are climate skills and apprenticeships for accounting technicians and digital marketing - and my Department has a number of staff working in that apprenticeship - so it is very much a broader and more diverse sector and spectrum that might traditionally have been the case. They all play important roles. With regard to suggestions, I invite the Deputy to put forward suggestions. I am all ears. I am a new Minister. I am here to work with colleagues around the House so if the Deputy has any suggestions for improvement, I am open to hearing them. I look forward to that debate, and from all colleagues in the House going forward.”
“I do want to give some credit to the system for working through that. With regard to people dropping out I will have to interrogate those figures and see the situation there. We are in a period of full employment in a burgeoning economy and people have many options. Some may choose to pursue other options at that stage.”
“Let us consider the result of the measures I spoke about, the additional €67 million, the subsequent €77 million, the additional 110 instructors and the 80 instructors converted onto different types of contracts bringing an additional 190 instructors into the system. This has meant that craft training places have increased by 43%. That brought places from 5,600 at the end of 2023 when the backlog was identified to more than 8,000 places in 2025, that is, in the current year. The Deputy mentioned people waiting for periods. The number of craft apprentices now waiting for more than six months for the phase 2 off-the-job training has actually fallen by almost 80%, from 5,319 in October 2023 to 1,140 in February 2025. That is a decrease of some 5,500 to roughly just over 1,000. That is a significant 80% drop.”
“Additional funding of €67 million in budget 2024 and an additional €77 million in budget 2025 was targeted at apprenticeship delivery. In addition, a targeted national recruitment campaign was launched in late 2023. This led to the recruitment and the introduction of 110 additional apprentice instructors. The combination of those moves, including the additional funding, the 110 instructors hired, and another 80 instructors converted from fixed-term to permanent contracts, were all measures that supported addressing the backlog.”
“To alleviate the growing backlog of apprentices who were waiting six months or longer for phase 2 off-the-job training in the education and training boards, ETBs, a backlog that had been exacerbated by the pandemic and the many workshop closures in the prior two years, a priority response was established by the National Apprenticeship Office, NAO, in November 2023. It was problem identified, problem diagnosed and problem addressed. The implementation of this plan, to increase apprenticeship places and accelerate throughput in the system and increase capacity, was overseen in action by my Department. To successfully remedy the issue, significant resources were expended in the apprenticeship system and committed to it.”
“I thank the Deputy for her question. At the outset, I want to challenge the characterisation of "unfit for purpose". That is a strong phrase and is not one that was reflected in the parliamentary question as tabled. I do not believe that is true or fair to the system. There have been backlogs. Those backlogs are being worked through, for sure. For context, there has been a strong growth in demand for craft apprenticeships in recent years, which reflects a booming construction sector, with yearly craft registrations rising by 34% from 5,300 in 2019 to 7,100 in 2024. Analysis conducted in the summer of 2023 showed that apprenticeship training capacity was indeed insufficient to meet that growing demand. I absolutely acknowledge this but I differ from the Deputy in that action was taken quickly on foot of that.”
“Patrick's Day we have seen a spotlight placed on toxic masculinity due to the contemptuous bravado of certain high-profile individuals who perhaps think they are above the law. I fully support comments made by my colleagues in government condemning this behaviour. Aggression and misogyny in any form should never be normalised or considered in any way acceptable. As I said, higher education institutions are autonomous and I respect that but the welfare of students must be a priority at all publicly funded institutions. We have ongoing robust evidence-based procedures and policies in place to ensure dignity, respect and freedom from bullying and harassment. This does not mean we have done enough, however, I will continue to do all I can in this brief to ensure the safety, priority, dignity and well-being of students.”
“The quality of the education and life experience for those going through a university or another HEI is paramount in the context of my commitment to this brief. It is something I will be engaging on further in due course. We have the Zero Tolerance strategy. It was an ambitious strategy when adopted and it remains clear. The name of the strategy calls it out. We cannot tolerate, accept, condone or downplay harassment or behaviour of any kind that threatens student well-being. There is no place for sexual violence, gender-based violence or harassment in Ireland, nor the attitudes underpinning such behaviour. Sexual violence is, of course, the worst possible, but we should not have any tolerance for gender-based violence, misogyny or any kind of behaviour on that spectrum. That will be my approach. Unfortunately, since St.”
“I thank Deputy Farrell for acknowledging the work that is ongoing. This is a cross-party issue; I do not believe it is a political issue at all. I appreciate her approach to this and I share and reciprocate that. There are several plans in place, which we have spoken about. Some of those are due to expire in the next year or two but they are typically incremental and we continue to grow and implement them. Insofar as I can while respecting their autonomy, I have made very clear my expectations of the institutions. I have undertaken a road trip to visit various institutions since coming into the brief. When it comes to the student experience, being safe from harassment should be the minimum standard expected in student accommodation and student life.”
“The Speak Out online anonymous reporting tool is in place for staff, students and visitors of higher education institutions to report incidents of harassment or bullying. The office was recently established in Trinity College Dublin and is funded by my Department. In short, I am equally abhorred and shocked by these reports. I hope my initial remarks have shown my commitment and that of my Department to tackle this behaviour across the board.”
“All publicly funded institutions have been instructed in this regard and have put in place those plans, or certainly should have done so and be implementing them. Further, support has been provided in respect of sexual violence and harassment prevention and response manager posts, with 16 individuals appointed to these positions. These are now in higher education institutions and that is a really significant leap forward. Those posts did not previously exist and those 16 people are now tasked with addressing these types of behaviours and proactively preventing them from occurring, as well as creating environments where such behaviours are unacceptable. They drive forward prevention and response efforts on sexual violence and harassment. My Department provides funding of €1.5 million for these posts.”
“Its establishment was a major milestone and I want to acknowledge that, as well as the work of the previous Minister, Deputy McEntee, and the current Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, going forward in that area. There are three points I want to highlight with regard to university campuses. The Higher Education Authority, HEA, which is under my remit, works closely with higher education institutions in seeking to promote a campus culture that is safe, respectful and supportive. This is part of Zero Tolerance: Third National Strategy on Domestic, Sexual and Gender Based Violence 2022-26, which was adopted in the last Dáil. It is assisted by the 2019 framework document for consent in higher education institutions and further led out by individual institution action plans on the issue.”
“Deputies will be aware that universities are autonomous under our code in Ireland but I state very clearly on the record of the Dáil that there is an expectation they would take proactive steps. Furthermore, it is clear that, unfortunately, despite best efforts, Ireland is not yet where we need to be on this. That is why the programme for Government stated clearly that tackling the epidemic of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence will remain a major priority. My colleague, the Minister for Justice, Deputy O'Callaghan, will continue the work of his predecessor, Deputy McEntee, in taking this forward. Government efforts are nationally centred around Cuan, the agency established last year to drive forward progress on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence.”
“It is unequivocally unacceptable and shameful that any woman - indeed any individual - should face harassment of any kind while in their place of study or student accommodation. These are places where people who are typically young, and often vulnerable, are making their initial entry into the world of adulthood. This kind of activity is absolutely abhorrent for anybody to experience. Everyone should feel they have a safe environment in which they can study, free from violence and harassment. More broadly, individuals should feel free to exist, work, study and live their lives free from harassment. This is a basic ask of any society. It is critical that higher education institutions, and all other places of work and study, take proactive steps when issues of concern are brought to their attention.”
“This included legislation to criminalise sharing of intimate images, as well as combating cyberbullying and many other unacceptable behaviours. I worked with the then Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, to advance legislation on gender-based violence and domestic violence, on women’s shelters, to improve support for victims in sexual abuse trials, and in many other areas where we attempt to advance this cause. As well as the legislative agenda, we had several elective sessions at the committee. I recognise the support of colleagues from all sides of the House and thank them for participating in those engagements. That was essential to ensuring significant attention and focus was placed on these topics.”
“I thank both Deputies for raising this very important issue. I am glad to have the opportunity to address the House on the matter. I am aware of the media reports being referred to by the Deputies. I am extremely concerned about the issue itself and about the wider issue it spotlights, that of women’s safety on university campuses. This is a matter of critical importance. As I said, I am glad to have the opportunity to address this issue and take this Topical Issue here today. In Government, I have worked to advance issues concerning women’s safety. Before I was ever a Minister, as a backbench TD I campaigned for the introduction of Coco’s Law and brought that through committee when serving as chair of the justice committee in the last term.”
“It would follow the lines of the Mallow development, with which the Senator may be familiar. That is the intention. I assure the Senator that, from my discussions with Cork ETB and my Department, the ETB, SOLAS and I are committed to making this happen, but there is some work to do on it. Perhaps the Senator might wish to use her offices at local level, too. We will all do a bit. I will push from this side and she might makes representations locally as well to get everyone moving forward.”
“I thank the Senator for the invite. I may well take her up on that at some stage when I am next in the area. I visited Cork ETB last Friday and discussed a range of areas, including plans at Carrigaline and other places where it has ambition. I share and support its ambitions, no less so in Macroom. There are some steps to go through as regards the proposed site, namely, value for money, assessment of needs, climate targets, modernisation, suitability and all the other criteria I would expect my officials to apply to any location. This one is no different. Cork ETB is on the move and is a proactive and dynamic organisation. It has a renewed and reimagined further education provision model. There is that intention to consolidate around a purpose-adapted single facility.”
“The next steps, to get to the nub of the matter, involve the completion of a due diligence report by Cork ETB, SOLAS and the property oversight group, which is a cross-departmental team comprising officials from my Department and the Department of Education. They must consider the available options, including the prospective landlord currently being discussed, taking into consideration value for money, assessment of needs and climate targets. I stress that we are keen - as Minister, I am very keen - to arrive at a solution, but there is still some work to be done at a more local level in terms of ironing out the details about the pledge of property that is being considered. As soon as the terms are favourable, I assure the Senator that I will not be found wanting in progressing the matter.”
“Discussions with a prospective new landlord are in progress. An application for a lease sanction is expected. However, that requires clear cost estimates and building works and a timeframe to be supplied and available. Macroom Youthreach centre offers young people, aged 15 to 20, who are out of mainstream education an alternative educational pathway. It is approved for 20 Youthreach places, working with each individual student, placing emphasis on academic skills along with practical life skills in preparation for the wider world. There are various awards on offer across levels 3 and 4 on a variety of courses, which I am sure the Senator is familiar with: work experience; woodwork; career planning; personal effectiveness; literacy; computer literacy; horticulture; culinary arts; and many others.”
“The lease on the current building expired in 2012. Despite ongoing efforts, a new agreement with the landlord has not yet been reached. Property searches for alternative leased buildings have not been successful either. An interim arrangement is in place at present, but I note Senator Lynch's comments and agree the building is not in good condition. I also take on board the Senator's comments about health and safety and so forth. I understand the need for a suitable learning environment for both students and staff. Towards that end, SOLAS, supported by my Department, is supporting Cork ETB in seeking to develop a facility in Macroom to enable the continuation of delivery of Youthreach services and potentially expand further education and training delivery in areas of adult education.”
“As Senator Lynch knows, Youthreach provides integrated education, training and work experience, and focuses on personal development, literacy, numeracy and vocational skills. It offers a lifeline to many, with a second chance to build a brighter future. Almost 6,000 places are available nationwide under the Youthreach umbrella every year. The kernel of Senator Lynch's matter relates to Macroom, and I will speak about the Youthreach service there in particular. I had an opportunity to visit Macroom last year in my previous role as Minister of State at the Department of Transport. I visited with Deputy Andreas Moynihan. We visited the sorting office, Millstreet train station up the road, the bus station in Macroom and a number of other sites. I am familiar with the town and I am familiar with some of the sites being proposed and considered.”
“Cork ETB runs the Youthreach centre in Macroom. It also provides services for a wide geographic area. I visited Cork and met the ETB on Friday last. The reason for my visit was the 30th anniversary of the Dillon's Cross project. This is a fantastic programme providing diverse paths to and from education for prison inmates. There is education for those in prison and for the families and spouses of people in prison. I was in Cork City Hall to celebrate this occasion with Cork ETB. I also had a separate meeting with the ETB executive. I met Dennis Leamy, the director further education, John Fitzgibbons, and several ETB board members, including Councillor Gillian Coughlan, chair of Cork ETB. We discussed a variety of matters relating to education in the Cork area.”
“It is good to see the Acting Chair, Senator Rabbitte, back in office. This is the first opportunity I have had to engage with Senator Lynch. I congratulate her on her election. I look forward to working with her and other Members of the Upper House on many matters, particularly those relating to my brief. I thank Senator Lynch for raising this important issue. As I know she is very aware, Youthreach is a vital programme designed to support young people who have left school early. Senator Lynch gave some statistics on the users of the service in Macroom which I have noted. I assure Senator Lynch that An tSeirbhís Oideachais Leanúnaigh agus Scileanna, SOLAS, and Cork Education and Training Board, ETB, are very much engaged on this issue and are working together to progress a facility to ensure the continuation of the service.”
“IFUT has declared its willingness to engage, and I encourage both sides to engage in the industrial relations machinery of the State. That is what it is there for. It can provide a solution to this issue, which I very much hope is brought to a head soon for the benefit of the staff, the students and all involved.”
“The realistic powers that may be available to any Minister to intervene in an industrial relations dispute involving a private company are limited, but that is exactly what the industrial relations machinery of the State is there for. Having said that, I had a look at the BIMM website and went through some documentation that is publicly available, and there is something the college calls a terms and conditions sheet, which is a sort of a contract with students, within which it cites its obligations to students, including the provision of courses, reasonable care and skill and so on. I remind the college of that obligation, which it has stated on a contractual basis, that it has to its students. Perhaps that is something it will reflect on.”
“-----and expressed serious concerns for the position of the staff and students. I am not happy about what is obtaining; let us be clear about that. There are limits, and the Deputies are well acquainted and familiar with the industrial relations machinery and how these disputes work. When a private entity is in a dispute with staff, there are very few levers a Minister can deploy. Deputy Coppinger suggested a couple, such as the State possibly taking over the college, which, with respect, is a bit extreme and perhaps not practical at this time.”
“I absolutely share the Deputies' frustration. Deputy Coppinger called for me to make a statement but I have made statements, as she will see if she listens back to what I have said and looks at the Official Report. I have shared the Deputies' concerns-----”
“The reality, however, is that there are very few, if any, levers available to me as Minister to intervene in any industrial relations dispute, particularly one that involves a private sector organisation. I strongly urge all parties - with this being directed more at the company than the workers, who have made their availability known - to engage in the industrial relations machinery of the State. The Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, stands ready to engage. I encourage all parties to think seriously about where the path leads them next. That may be a very helpful avenue to pursue a resolution. I am sure the Deputies and the workers will be interested to hear that the president of TUD has agreed to meet with the relevant union, the Irish Federation of University Teachers, IFUT, to discuss the concerns.”
“That notwithstanding, like any Member of the House, I am concerned anytime there is the suggestion of redundancies, be it at BIMM or at any other company or organisation in the State. I understand completely that the staff of BIMM are worried by management proposals. Apparently BIMM is saying that its actions are in the best interests of the students and the organisation. I am not in a position to assess those claims. It would probably be unhelpful for me to get into trying to arbitrate or adjudicate on the dispute. My primary concern is for the students and staff, based on what I have read and what has been reported. I have been following the issue.”
“However, it is BIMM acting as a private provider that appears to have responsibility for staffing, organisational structures and the working terms and conditions of staff. I looked at the BIMM website and it declares that it is a private limited company because it gives the Companies Registration Office, CRO, number and so forth, so it is a private entity. I also note that it has operations across Europe and the UK. Berlin, Hamburg, Birmingham, Manchester and Bristol are all listed as sites where it operates. Furthermore, it does not receive any funding from my Department or from the State, that I am aware of. Issues pertaining to the governance of the terms and conditions of the staff employed do not fall within the remit of my Department.”
“I have been reading about the situation and I have been reading media reports about the proposed restructuring, as it is labelled, and the industrial dispute that has flowed from that. I do not like what I have read and I am concerned about the situation and the impact on staff and students. As the Deputies are aware and as has been acknowledged at the outset, the difficulty is that BIMM is a private company. Neither I, nor any other Minister, have any statutory role or powers to exercise in this matter. I understand and take the point that has been made that TUD is engaged in collaborative provision with BIMM to deliver a small number of programmes. From what I have been told, the arrangement seems to include academic quality assurance and protection of learner arrangements.”
“This is my first opportunity to address the House since my appointment to this very important brief. It is an honour to hold it and I look forward to working on the sector with the Deputies opposite and all Deputies of the House. I acknowledge that Deputy Boyd Barrett has an interest in the area of higher education, innovation and research, the pursuit of curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge. We have debated these topics in the past and I look forward to continuing that engagement on this very important topic. I thank the Deputies for raising the issue of the situation at BIMM. I anticipated that it would ventilated before the Dáil. It is welcome that this is happening. I welcome the workers and thank them for being here. I certainly am very sympathetic to their plight.”