Leslie Cree
North Down · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I also thank the Minister for her very full paper this afternoon. I was going to ask about cost, but that has been covered. Obviously, from the point of view of using signing and having available an Irish version and a British version, there could be complications.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Budget also anticipates 30 projects being taken forward that will involve cross-cutting reform and provide overarching governance. Can the Minister elaborate on that work and advise what savings are expected in the Budget year against the cost of £4·5 million?”
“<BR /> <BR />I will illustrate some more points about the current Budget. We know that, under the Budget exchange scheme, there are limits to what can be carried forward from the current year. Is it still 0·6% for resource DEL and 1·5% for capital DEL?”
“Again, I ask the Minister whether he can confirm that that is correct. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we need to be more definite about which projects we fund in the Budget. They need to be clear and time-bound. Some of the strategies that the Executive decided upon in 2007 have not yet been finalised.”
“The fact that spend is usually lower than anticipated has meant that overcommitment has been a feature until this current year. That is not good enough and would not be countenanced by the private sector.”
“We often hear Members complaining that those who query a Budget should suggest where any additional moneys should come from to fund other activities. That approach is greatly flawed and is an oversimplification of the matter. The issue is much more basic: a different approach is required.”
The complete record
Every one of 368 lines we hold for Leslie Cree, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 2 of 8.
“I hope, Minister, that you will be able to sort that out at long last.”
“At present, there is a fiscal deficit in Northern Ireland of approximately £9·2 billion, yet the written ministerial statement on the 2016-17 Budget does not mention any additional revenue-raising measures. Did the Executive consider that, and, if they did, what was their rationale for ruling out such measures? <BR /> <BR />Finally, I will return to the subject that has not been resolved. I refer to the review of the financial process that was agreed by the Committee and supported by the House. After several years, it has not been approved by the Executive. The Education Minister has held back that important issue, but it is necessary to move on and change the Budget process into one that provides direct read-across and accountability and that is a modern, logical approach to accounting. Several Ministers have failed to deliver on that.”
“In the current year, 2015-16, the Budget envisaged that the unit would deliver £50 million of capital receipts. Has the £50 million target been reached, and, if not, how much was raised in receipts and what lessons were learned from the unit's work in that area in 2015-16? <BR /> <BR />Former Minister of Finance and Personnel Mr Hamilton mentioned in his statement on the 2015-16 Budget:”
“<BR /> <BR />Once again, a friend of mine — financial transactions capital — is included in the Budget. In the past, our utilisation of that capital has been at patchy at best. The current figure of £57·8 million has been allocated to four Departments. Is the Minister satisfied that it will be spent in 2016-17? A further £55·8 million in FTC has been earmarked for the Northern Ireland investment fund. Can the Minister confirm that the fund is now ready to operate? Have all the previous FTC moneys that were set aside for the fund, going back several years, been reallocated over past years or is there any carry-forward? <BR /> <BR />Considerable activity has taken place over recent years on asset management. A unit was set up to maximise asset utilisation and disposal.”
“It has told us that it is not operating at all times within its own safety limits and, at present, cannot fund ongoing training requirements. Surely that needs to be addressed urgently. <BR /> <BR />In the Budget, there are several flagship projects, which have been decided by the Executive. This will certainly reduce the Minister's discretion when allocating Departments' capital DEL. Perhaps, the Minister can advise us whether these projects have all been approved to proceed. <BR /> <BR />One of the new Departments is to be the Department for Communities. It will incorporate part of DCAL's functions. Non-ring-fenced resource DEL is approximately £83 million. Again, can the Minister advise on the breakdown of that figure? There appears to be no detail.”
“A substantial sum of £115·2 million has been identified for a range of projects, some of which has been included in previous Budgets and not been spent. Can the Minister give an assurance that, this time, the resources will be used and not reallocated to another holding position? <BR /> <BR />Certain areas of the Budget have been protected. For example, the police budget will be reduced by only 2%. However, the police are currently unable to provide the same service. There is a diminution of the service to the public. That is not acceptable. Neighbourhood policing is sparse and the new police districts are much too remote. Only yesterday, we had the Fire and Rescue Service at Stormont. It is facing a cut of over £4 million.”
“Does this mean, for example, that arm's-length bodies will be given a budget that will reflect the Minister's priorities, only to find that, two months later, their new Minister has different priorities? This would make it very difficult for these bodies to plan ahead and secure adequate staffing. We have been told that the Executive have agreed to Budget flexibilities in the 2016 June monitoring round, but we do not know what resources may then be available. <BR /> <BR />Turning now to the detail of the Budget, ring-fenced resource DEL is now being handled differently and, we are told, by the Treasury itself. Bearing in mind the difficulties that have been experienced in the past with depreciation and impairments, is the Minister satisfied that there will be no unpleasant surprises when these figures are allocated in due course?”
“I remember saying last year that the Budget-setting process was very difficult. Well, it is even more difficult this year. The Chancellor's spending review announcement was late. The Fresh Start timetable means that there will not be adequate scrutiny by the Statutory Committees. In fact, the Executive have already agreed the Budget. A further complication is that the figures, which have been produced on the basis of the new nine-Department structure, represent a problem in itself. Baseline positions of resource DEL have been reworked from a 12-Department model to a nine-Department model. Departments with existing responsibility for functions have decided how these should be applied to the spending areas of the nine future Departments.”
“I thank the Minister for his reply. We all recognise that teaching is a fine and valuable profession, but the Minister will be aware of figures produced by the General Teaching Council that state that 23% of recent teaching graduates obtained work in Northern Ireland. The rest of them went elsewhere. Why, when budgets are so tight, are we continuing to produce so many teachers to export elsewhere when, as you said, we need engineering and medical graduates here? Have the Executive discussed why the statistical-based teacher-demand model — that is quite a mouthful — is being topped up each year?”
“In Scotland, mandatory rates relief is given to registered charities and registered CASCs where the premises are used wholly or mainly for charitable or club purposes. In addition, a discretionary relief is available that may make up the remaining 20% in England, Wales and, indeed, Scotland. The Assembly is playing catch-up. I support the Bill's Second Stage.”
“As has been referred to, the Bill is similar to a private Member's Bill that recently fell at the Second Stage. Licensed premises will not be entitled to the additional relief, and regulations to clarify the eligibility conditions will be produced by the Department. They will, of course, be subject to affirmative resolution by the Assembly in due course. <BR /> <BR />The situation in the rest of the United Kingdom is similar to what is being proposed. England and Wales allow registered charities 80% relief on rates for premises that are wholly or mainly used for charitable purposes. Registered community amateur sports clubs receive 80% relief on the rates for premises that are wholly or mainly used for the purpose of the club or for other CASCs.”
“I support the Second Stage. The Bill, as other Members said, contains two provisions. The first is an enabling provision to grant enhanced rate relief under article 31 of the 1977 Order to certain premises used for recreational purposes. <BR /> <BR />The second relates to the use of certain window displays in empty shops. The scheme has been operating as an interim measure and appears to have worked well. Clause 2 will extend the application until 31 March 2017. <BR /> <BR />Clause 1 attempts to create a situation where sports premises can attract 100% rate relief.”
“<BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I am quite happy to support all the amendments today, including amendment No 10.”
“<BR /> <BR />We now have an improved Bill, and the amendments have been agreed by both parties, with one exception: the amendment that would insert clause 50A into the Bill. We had quite a debate about that issue over a period of weeks, and I think that I remember saying that a period of five years would probably have answered that question. However, I certainly believe that we should have a review, and I will support the amendment as I supported it in Committee. <BR /> <BR />The Chair touched on the point that there is an understanding that the explanatory and financial memorandum that accompanies the Bill needs to contain more detail. I hope that that will be the case. The Committee looks forward to receiving that revised document when the amendments have been agreed.”
“The Department has tabled an amendment that will capture information on first-tier complaints. That was agreed by the Committee, and it looks as though it will be agreed here this afternoon. <BR /> <BR />The Committee's scrutiny of the Bill has been a fine example of how a Department has worked with a Statutory Committee to improve draft legislation. In the 12 years and more that I have been here, I have not had that experience in any other Committee. That shows that it can, in fact, be done. I add my appreciation to the Committee staff and departmental officials for the excellent way in which differences of opinion were resolved, and there were many differences of opinion at the start.”
“The report's findings have been translated into the Bill and address the oversight of complaints handling systems of the Law Society and, for the first time, the Bar. <BR />It has been pointed out that the Committee took evidence from a wide range of stakeholders and published its report on the Bill last month. The detailed scrutiny by the Committee has resulted in a range of changes as a result of issues that were raised with the Department for clarification and improvement. A number of issues need to be addressed by way of amendments to ensure that the Bill is improved and, indeed, strengthened, and they are here today. <BR /> <BR />A main issue was the need to establish clarity on the true level of legal complaints in Northern Ireland, and the Minister has addressed that issue.”
“Many Members have covered the ground. The Bill is intended to reform the existing system of complaints handling by solicitors and barristers. The Minister referred to the fact that the report to the Government was made in November 2006 by a legal services review group chaired by Professor Sir George Bain. The then Minister of Finance and Personnel, David Hanson MP, whom some of you may remember, received the report and it has been considered by subsequent devolved Ministers since then. It has been in gestation for quite a long time. <BR /> <BR />Members also referred to the fact that it is not a root-and-branch reform, but it will bring a significant change to the system and establish the new position of Legal Services Oversight Commissioner.”
“I recognise what the Minister has said about development of the Irish language. Will she give us an update on why there has not been a similar project for Ulster Scots to that of the Líofa scheme, which has been so successful?”
“What steps is the Minister taking to engage with the Prison Officers' Association to address poor staff morale, in particular with regards to pay arrangements for custody officers?”
“I thank the Minister for her report. There are indications in your report that certain expense headings will be extended into the next Budget year. I am just wondering this: how can you do that, bearing in mind that we have not started the Budget process? How, indeed, will that dovetail into a Budget process?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. Two points caught my eye. The first concerns a substantial sum of money from third-party funding for towpath development. Can she tell us where that is likely to take place? The second concerns the Ulster canal. We have been told that Waterways Ireland is exploring options with local authorities for extending a greenway along the canal. That would be helpful. Can she give us a bit more detail on that, please?”
“<BR /> <BR />Everyone can understand that, in the present difficult times, money has to be saved by the public purse; but it should not be taken from those who have worked and are entitled to it under existing contracts. That is not fair. <BR /> <BR />The Department needs to clarify the outstanding issues as quickly as possible but, at this point, the Ulster Unionist Party will not support the proposed legislative consent motion.”
“<BR /> <BR />A major concern for many is that full details of guidelines on the flexibility to relax the exit payment cap will not be issued by the Department until after the LCM has been agreed. The Ulster Unionist Party is not opposed to the setting of a cap, but it must be done in such a way that the consequences have all been considered in advance. The current situation is that this has not happened. There is indecent haste, and the Finance Committee is not satisfied that sufficient time has been afforded to scrutinise the issue fully. It is important to ensure that employees who do not earn large salaries and have long public service are not disadvantaged by the proposed cap, which will happen under the present proposals.”
“The main ones were these: the exemptions to be granted to certain publicly funded bodies; the lack of detail in the regulations to be introduced by the Department; the impact on the current voluntary exit scheme; the effect on lower-paid public servants; the risk of legal challenges; TUPE protections; and the situation with respect to firefighters. <BR /> <BR />There was subsequently some correspondence with the Department about the use of exemptions and waivers, but many questions remain. We were assured that the cap will not impact on any accrued entitlement or benefits, which an individual has built up and paid for, in pension contributions, in a public-sector scheme. The Northern Ireland Local Government Association (NILGA) and the Equality Commission also highlighted concerns, some of which have been addressed by the Department.”
“The Department advised the Committee that the Treasury's preferred position was for a single, United Kingdom-wide legislative approach to implement the policy, and that this could be achieved by means of an amendment inserting the relevant clauses into the Enterprise Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Minister has agreed to that approach in principle, which necessitates the agreement of an LCM. The Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister has also agreed to the process. Despite the tight time frame, the Committee has engaged with the Department and other stakeholders, including the trade unions. Again, as has been said, there was discontent with the proposals, which centred on various points.”
“The Bill deals with a number of Government initiatives intended to support the growth of enterprise in the United Kingdom. These are fine, but the Bill also contains measures to restrict public-sector exit payments. Under these measures, the total value of exit payments that an individual, who exits public sector employment through redundancy or early exit, may receive would be capped to £95,000. The Committee for Finance and Personnel was advised on the same date, 16 September 2015, by the Department that HM Treasury had consulted on these proposals from 31 July to 27 August, a mere four weeks in the height of summer. In my opinion, this is inadequate, and it has also led to the whole process being rushed. The Government also screened out a full equality impact assessment.”
“Yes, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, hopefully we can do that. The enterprise restriction on public-sector exit payments was introduced to the House of Lords on 16 September 2015.”
“Minister, do you also expect the establishment of an independent environmental protection agency to be completed within that time frame?”
“I also thank the Minister for her statement. I would like to have seen it maybe a year ago, but that is over and done with now. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you are hoping to get the support of the rest of your Executive colleagues, which obviously makes a lot of sense, but is it possible to complete the pre-consultation, the consultation and, most importantly, the analysis before the end of this mandate?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. Minister, you mentioned the effective dates. This strategy was first developed at the end of the last mandate. Since then, we have had the IFA's facilities strategy document of August 2012, which was, obviously, quite different from the 2011 situation. In your report, you talked about other factors that have emerged since 2011. Will you clarify the situation with regard to the Glentoran club and the IFA's new facilities strategy of 2012?”
“I am disappointed to hear that memorials are not explained unless someone asks. As we move into a pivotal year for centenaries, not least of Northern Ireland's sacrifice at the battle of the Somme, will the Commission seek to integrate the war memorial inside the main doors as part of the tour in future?”
“Thank you. I certainly will. I thank the Minister for that. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you will remember that you recently advised the Committee that £610,000 would be included in your bids for the June monitoring round for depreciation. The Finance Minister told us here last week that £24·4 million, which was ring-fenced, or resource DEL, could not be reallocated because it was for depreciation and impairments. Did you get that £610,000? If not, why not?”
“Minister, as you know, in the 2007-2011 Programme for Government there was an ambitious plan, which was achievable but which, in fact, your predecessor never got near to achieving. In the current year, there is no target at all. Do you believe that there should be an afforestation programme in the next Programme for Government? If so, can you give some indication of the size that it should be?”
“Minister, can you confirm to the House whether all the property has been acquired at this stage and whether there will be a development brief, as we used to know it?”
“I also wish the First Minister and the junior Minister well in the future. Does the Minister agree that the Minister is the Department, and, therefore, the fact that a junior OFMDFM Minister welcomed the court ruling against OFMDFM either proves a poor understanding of the workings of government or is a very frank admission of the dysfunctionality of OFMDFM?”
“I also thank the Minister for her statement; it is helpful. She mentioned the "balance ... between access and quality" a couple of times. Will she explain exactly what she means by balancing the two and how, in that sense, quality is protected?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. She must be pleased, as I am, that it is not as bad as was anticipated. There are two points, Minister. The first is on the November monitoring outcome. You referred to £24·4 million of resource DEL not being capable of being reallocated. Does that mean that it will have to be returned? Is she aware that DCAL had an under-commitment of some £600,000 for depreciation for the last year brought forward? Maybe she will say a few words about where the financial transactions capital is sitting at the moment.”
“Will there be capital moneys returned to the Treasury at the end of March?”
“Further to question 7, can you advise how, with the difficult and very short time remaining, capital, including conventional and financial transactions, can be utilised before the end of March? Is there a serious risk of money being returned to the Treasury?”
“I thank the Minister for that. It is indeed good news. Does he envisage that the only protection would be tree protection orders or is some other form of protection needed for these trees, particularly the ancient trees that may be one-offs?”
“Minister, while it is essential that we have a workable code of conduct, do you agree that it is important that the content of that code or protocol should not become a tool for vexatious purposes by political opponents?”
“While I appreciate your attributing the quotation to me, I was repeating what the Prime Minister, David Cameron, said when he talked about the "golden age" of UK-China relations and the development of the new Silk Road. The Chancellor very wisely said that he wants the United Kingdom to be the European choice of investment for the Chinese Government. There are trillions available, in their foreign exchange and how they invest it, and we want to bring that to Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Six years ago, Northern Ireland was exporting in the region of £60 million to China. Figures for the last period show that we have raised that to £95·5 million. It is my intention and target to take our exports to China over £100 million by the next period of office.”
“Minister, welcome back. You have been quoted as saying that we are now in what is being labelled the "golden age" in UK-China relations. Can you explain to us exactly why you say that, how it is "golden", particularly with respect to Northern Ireland, and when we may see direct benefits in Northern Ireland from China?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Minister, do you not agree that you have effectively privatised the transfer system?”
“The Minister mentioned the costs of the initiative. Does he agree that the lack of clarity on how much funding would be available has led to a very low uptake of projects outside the two cities, as he demonstrated quite clearly?”
“<BR /> <BR />It is remarkable — and other Members referred to it this morning — how many top-quality boxers are produced in this part of the world. We go back to Johnny Caldwell and Rinty Monaghan, not that I remember all these myself, and, more recently, Barry McGuigan, Dave McAuley, Wayne McCullough, Eamonn Loughran, Brian Magee and, of course, Carl Frampton. <BR /> <BR />We should all be proud to be associated with sporting success in this country. We have world champion boxers, golfers, motorcyclists, and a football team that is going to the European Championships. We should cheer them all on. <BR /> <BR />It is my great pleasure to say, "Well done" to Michael, world champion, and best of luck for Rio in 2016.”
“I am pleased to add my voice and that of the Ulster Unionist Party to the words of praise for Michael Conlan, amateur world bantamweight champion. It is not every day that you win a world championship in any sport. To do so in amateur boxing, where there is only one world championship, is even more noteworthy. <BR /> <BR />Also, to get off the canvas in the third round, as Members will remember, and win against an opponent from Uzbekistan is quite a feat. Michael has already won Olympic bronze representing Ireland at London 2012. Representing Northern Ireland, he won gold at the Commonwealth Games in 2014 in Glasgow. With the Rio Olympics coming up next year, we wish Michael well in his quest to win gold. After that, who knows? A glittering professional career may beckon.”
“He said that Tories were pleased with the way that the economy had picked up, but said that that was not the case. He said that we appear to have ignored tax credits on the bigger scene. I can tell Mr McCrea that they were touched on in the talks this morning. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.”
“Nevertheless, they were important at this time. He referred to the shiny new national living wage, which he saw as a rebranded minimum wage. He referred, this time, to 200,000 children in poverty. He said that the Tories were out of touch with reality on the ground, and that they would not cave in on welfare. <BR /> <BR />Mrs Kelly said that families with children would be hardest hit. She referred to the north/south split in Great Britain and the Tory opposition to the welfare reforms. She also referred to the legal action on the anti-poverty strategy here against the main parties. <BR /> <BR />Mr McCrea, bringing up the rear, referred to tax credits and said that they had a deep impact on lower-paid working people here. He talked about the likelihood of civil unrest if this continues in the way it is.”
“He quoted the Prime Minister and the "better pay, less tax" vision, mentioned the higher tax threshold and the Tory peer on no longer making work pay. He was concerned about that, and maybe several Back-Benchers were of the same mind. Our amendment calls for action, and people will not be less well off in the meantime. <BR /> <BR />Mr Bradley supported the motion and the amendment. He referred to 120,000 Northern Ireland households on tax credits and the losses, again, of £900 per annum. He mentioned the effect on children and said that 101,000 children were already in poverty. He said that the SDLP was sceptical of the national living wage and what it would actually mean. <BR /> <BR />Stewart Dickson then took the Floor and made the point that tax credits were inefficient and were really a return of tax already paid.”