Leslie Cree
North Down · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I also thank the Minister for her very full paper this afternoon. I was going to ask about cost, but that has been covered. Obviously, from the point of view of using signing and having available an Irish version and a British version, there could be complications.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Budget also anticipates 30 projects being taken forward that will involve cross-cutting reform and provide overarching governance. Can the Minister elaborate on that work and advise what savings are expected in the Budget year against the cost of £4·5 million?”
“<BR /> <BR />I will illustrate some more points about the current Budget. We know that, under the Budget exchange scheme, there are limits to what can be carried forward from the current year. Is it still 0·6% for resource DEL and 1·5% for capital DEL?”
“Again, I ask the Minister whether he can confirm that that is correct. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we need to be more definite about which projects we fund in the Budget. They need to be clear and time-bound. Some of the strategies that the Executive decided upon in 2007 have not yet been finalised.”
“The fact that spend is usually lower than anticipated has meant that overcommitment has been a feature until this current year. That is not good enough and would not be countenanced by the private sector.”
“We often hear Members complaining that those who query a Budget should suggest where any additional moneys should come from to fund other activities. That approach is greatly flawed and is an oversimplification of the matter. The issue is much more basic: a different approach is required.”
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“OFMDFM is a classic case, with a poor record of delivery. Several strategies have been listed as important work, and despite the passing of years, many going back to 2007, we still await their publication. The social investment fund is a prime example, with less than a quarter of the money applied to the need that was identified a long time ago. <BR /> <BR />The new financial process developed by the Committee for Finance and Personnel and approved by the House remains on some dusty shelf in the Executive. One can only speculate that, despite Sinn Féin's blocking of its implementation by its Education Minister, it may well be that others are content to leave the smoke-and-mirrors process as it is. It has to change.”
“I am pleased to be able to speak on the Final Stage of the Budget (No. 2) Bill. There still remains a black hole of £600 million, and the hope is that discussions on welfare reform will somehow return that money from the Stormont House Agreement. It is illogical to have a situation where a Budget Bill will depend on factors that are not directly related. But we are where we are. <BR /> <BR />I have already related many issues that my party has with the Bill. So much of the process is not intended to show transparency and accountability but aids the smoke-and-mirrors image of the whole Budget process. Time frames are distorted, and no direct read-across is possible. In addition, several Departments are notorious for not spending their allocated budget, and they use various methods to divert or carry forward underspends.”
“Minister, the people of north Down do not have too much trust in consultations, following recent exercises and, indeed, guarantees. Surely the ban on new admissions is bound to affect the sustainability of that home. Is that a deliberate policy, Minister, and can you guarantee us that your approval is needed before any closure is initiated?”
“The Minister referred to the IMF report. It is important to note that it also states:”
“However, it is important not to become complacent with the current set-up; Northern Ireland Water must always strive to do better and to provide a better service to the public. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party has said that we will not force water charges on anyone during this mandate, and hopefully for the next couple of years, and we honour that pledge. However, having said that, we recognise the importance of sustainable drainage systems and, despite the weather, drought plans. We look to see how those will be taken forward at the next stage of the Bill.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. He is quite right: it does that. That is very observant of him. However, remember that we also pay an unhypothecated amount through the regional rate. That is another point for discussion, perhaps on another day. <BR /> <BR />It is important to remember that Danny Kennedy inherited a system that had seen chronic underinvestment over decades. Since taking up office, he has striven for stability and sought to improve the levels of service, and he should be congratulated for that. Let us remember how things were when he took up his role as Minister for Regional Development and the real water crisis and uncertainty of supply that the public had faced in the preceding years.”
“<BR /> <BR />I pause to point out that the Bill will allow the Department to remove the requirement on Northern Ireland Water to install meters at domestic properties that are connecting to public water supplies for the first time. That is proper. I give way to the Member.”
“No. Let me get started first. <BR /> <BR />While we recognise that some in the House seemed to have revised their positions and are now in favour of implementing domestic water charging, the Ulster Unionist Party continues to recognise the high levels of opposition to such an additional charge, and we do not believe that it would be fair to implement it at this time. Remember: this is a charge that would apply equally to those who are least able to budget for an additional charge and to those who are most able to pay. In saying that, we do not ignore the issues of the future governance of water in Northern Ireland, but the Bill will continue to provide some breathing space for the Assembly to agree a way forward for what shape that might take in future.”
“The Ulster Unionist Party stood on a manifesto in 2011 that included a commitment not to implement water charges in Northern Ireland during this mandate. I am pleased that I can stand here today and welcome the next stage of the Bill that continues to make that a reality. We should not underestimate the importance of today's debate for households across Northern Ireland, as it will reassure them they will not be faced with yet another bill coming through the letter box at a time when many are finding it increasingly difficult to strike a balance between income and the rising cost of outgoings, such as heating and electricity. It may come as a surprise to him, but I congratulate Danny Kennedy. He is a Minister who has ensured that that Programme for Government commitment has been honoured throughout this Assembly mandate.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. I see that the finger of suspicion was clearly pointed at the test server operated by the developer. Did he have anything to say about that?”
“The evidence to the Committee highlighted the potential for significant constitutional reform across the United Kingdom to have a bearing on the future operation of the Barnett formula and the wider arrangements for devolution, funding and finance. The debate on UK constitutional reform is still taking place against the backdrop of a growing number of studies calling for the Barnett formula to be replaced or supplemented. These are in the report, and I trust that Members will have considered them, as they are of significant importance. The conclusion and recommendations are in the report, and I commend them to the House. I wish to place on record my thanks to the Committee officials for their excellent work in compiling the report and, as many will have seen, for their illustrations.”
“As part of the review, the Committee explored how convergence works and the factors that influence it. The purpose of convergence is to ensure that relative public spending per head will converge on the English spending level. In his evidence, as has already been mentioned, Dr Gudgin said that:”
“The process lacks transparency and accountability, but, as devolution becomes more intricate, we need — I am repeating what Mr Bradley said — transparency and accountability, particularly when dealing with Treasury.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Barnett formula works on the basis of a calculation that takes into account population and planned spending by Departments in Westminster on comparable services in the rest of the United Kingdom. It provides additional revenues, known as Barnett consequentials, because of extra in-year spending by the rest of the Kingdom. Barnett certainly worked well for Northern Ireland in the past, but the imminent possibility of increased devolution is likely to change that. The report covers the pros and cons arising from the evidence. <BR /> <BR />Treasury has had a long-standing commitment to the continuation of the Barnett formula, and it is easy to see why.”
“In 2012, the Committee for Finance and Personnel received preliminary evidence from a panel of expert witnesses, indicating that while, historically, due to various factors, the Barnett formula had provided generous funding to Northern Ireland, it might no longer carry out that function. The major parties in Westminster were looking at need — or relative need — and contemplating a new system. In September last year, the Committee agreed the terms of reference for a review of the scope for improving the Barnett formula, with a view to ensuring that the future needs of Northern Ireland will be safeguarded. Much work is being done, and evidence, written and oral, has been taken from a wide range of expert witnesses and stakeholders. The Committee also commissioned research from a range of areas and has provided a comprehensive report.”
“What support has been given to FE colleges so that they can deliver courses and supplement the good work that is being done in the film and television industry, which the Minister mentioned, and can encourage more people to get involved in that?”
“Does the Minister recognise that the Catholic maintained sector has, in fact, reorganised its own schools estate over many years without reference whatsoever to other sectors? Does he agree that we will not be able to have proper area planning-based sectors until we agree a long-term vision of having one schools estate?”
“Will it be part of the June monitoring round? If not, how will Departments bid for it and when?”
“In the meantime, we have the unreality of a Budget with problems. Agreeing the Budget will not resolve all the financial and political issues that remain. That is why we are here. It is the failure of the nationalist parties and, indeed, the Green Party representative, to honour the Stormont House Agreement that has brought us to this point. It is their fault that welfare reform has not been introduced, and we will be fined — as has been referred to already — £2 million a week because of that. That is £114 million this year. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we were told just before Christmas by the then Finance Minister that £10·7 million in resource DEL and £8 million in capital DEL would be held at the centre for allocation as part of the final Budget. Perhaps the Minister will update us on how that money will be allocated.”
“<BR /> <BR />Ms Boyle went on to state that we could do so much more if we had full control of our resources and economic decision-making. The vision now is clearly a dream, or perhaps a nightmare. It assumes that Northern Ireland generates more revenue than those areas where fiscal matters are not devolved. Where is the proof of that? Hopefully, we are all working to a point where Northern Ireland will be a net contributor to the United Kingdom, but it is still a long way off. To be constructive, I would welcome the opportunity to study Sinn Féin's detailed economic strategy, if such a thing exists. In the meantime, we need to be realistic. <BR /> <BR />The purpose of the Bill is to give legal authority to enable Departments to spend certain sums of money, and that will have to be done one way or another.”
“We all know that, in these difficult times of austerity, we have to work harder on our economy. A healthy economy will generate the wealth that, in turn, will fund virtually everything else. I was amused when I reread Sinn Féin's Michaela Boyle's treatise on its vision for the local economy. Apparently, it is better than the Tory's, which has no coherent economic plan. Mr Osborne was to be told to leave the economy to the Assembly and the Executive to shape a better economic future using the limited powers that we have. How ridiculous. What about the £10 billion grant provided under Barnett? What about the multimillion consequentials that come from Westminster as a result of their spending on health and education?”
“<BR />Treasury rules do not usually permit capital expenditure to be used for resource. A major plank in last year's Budget was the sale of assets. I raised that issue before, but, so far, I have not had a definitive answer. Will the Minister advise how much resource has been released from the sale of assets and how that money will be used? <BR /> <BR />The last Finance Minister — it is good to see him here this evening — announced a review of public governance. That would be undertaken by the OECD and it would be its first sub-national public governance review. It would be conducted in Northern Ireland. Will the Minister update the House on the current position and whether any lessons have been learned?”
“The voluntary exit scheme is predicated on reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) borrowing to pay for severance over the years, commencing with £200 million in the current year 2015-16. Have the Executive commissioned any economic analysis to assess the likely effect on consumer confidence and the economy in general after large-scale, public-sector job losses, considering that approximately 30% of all Northern Ireland jobs are in the public sector? Have the Executive considered the negative multiplier effect on the economy of public-sector restructuring? Does the Minister think it prudent to fund redundancy in 2015-16 by increasing debt? Northern Ireland's projected level of debt will be £1·7 billion or £948 per capita. That is about twice that of Scotland.”
“I hope that my voice lasts. I think it is starting to break. <BR /> <BR />It is good to see that we have made it to the Second Reading of the Budget Bill, although, sitting and listening to the wide-ranging discussions, you tend to forget that we are trying to get behind the detail of the Bill this afternoon. This is an important stage, and it is vital that we explore the detail of the Budget Bill and the rationale that lies behind it. I would therefore like to ask the Minister some questions.”
“The Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure was at Kilbroney last week. We were able to see at first hand the excellent course there. You have touched on this, but it seems to me that there is great scope for other mountain bike trails that are perhaps more geared to amateurs. Do you have any formal relationship with the Agriculture Minister to use the forest parks for that purpose?”
“I also congratulate the junior Minister on her elevation. Does she regret that the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister will not have sight of the Department's final recommendations until after the Committee Stage of the Bill has ended?”
“<BR /> <BR />As the Bill has been under consideration for a long period, I understand that its clauses are acceptable to the professional bodies. It will improve on the existing situation and will be of benefit to the public at large. Therefore, on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I welcome the Bill and am happy to see it proceed to the next stage.”
“I rise as the Ulster Unionist member of the Committee for Finance and Personnel. The difficulty now is that so much has already been said, and I pay tribute to the Minister for her very full résumé of the Bill, aided and abetted by my colleagues in the House. <BR /> <BR />Just by way of overview, the Bill sets out to improve complaints-handling systems and is the result of some 10 years of consideration and consultation. It builds on the existing processes of both professional bodies and seeks to appoint a legal services oversight commissioner. That post would be financed by a levy to be applied to the relevant professional bodies. The Department of Finance and Personnel will also have the power to pay or defray certain costs of the commissioner. A very important issue is that there is an appeal function to the High Court in the Bill.”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Given that she is pushing ahead without a genuine business case and despite the concerns of several senior officials in her Department and DFP, she is clearly not worried about value for money, but can she give us an update on cost at this point in time?”
“Someone once said that all politics is local. Can the Minister outline bus and rail investment in north Down?”
“I thank the Minister for that. Bearing in mind the outcome of the report, does the Minister not think that the Director of Public Prosecutions should have resigned?”
“The Minister refers to the Ardoyne/Twaddell area. Does he not accept that it is very difficult to get a localised agreement in that area when the two residents' groups apparently will not meet in the same room?”
“I will give way to the Member if he wants to say sorry —”
“The Member raises a very interesting point, but there is a lot more to it than that. In fact, we really have to say focused on the issue today. The issue today is that a Budget has been presented, but it does not stack up because of the failure of the Stormont House Agreement and the parties that have changed their minds about it. That is it.”
“It is certainly a lot tougher now with a £600 million shortfall. The Estimates and the resultant Budget are not now sustainable, thanks to Sinn Féin, assisted by the SDLP. This is now make-your-mind-up time for the Assembly. We need to move forward and demonstrate to the Northern Ireland public that the Assembly is capable of delivering. We are currently haemorrhaging £2 million a week because of the lack of welfare reform. I hope that today will prove that, in political terms, we can turn the corner for the betterment of all in Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />In January, the former Minister, in addressing his final Budget, chided those of us who did not support the Budget. He said that although the Budget was:”
“Thank you for that. I will go back to where I was at. <BR /> <BR />The days of handouts are over, and we have to manage devolution and move the Assembly forward. In January of this year, the former Minister of Finance and Personnel announced his intention to create a Northern Ireland investment fund. Its purpose was to lever additional finance to be used for investment in infrastructure. Some £40·9 million was forecast to be in the fund this year. Perhaps Minister Foster will update Members on the current situation with the fund. On the subject of funds, it was also announced that a social innovation fund would be created to provide specific groups with access to loan financing. Again, an update from the Minister would be appreciated.”
“I will certainly. I agree with the second point that the former Minister makes, but Mr Allister is better equipped to answer the first one.”
“Mr Allister's amendment attempts to address that issue. <BR /> <BR />We all recognise the tight fiscal framework. This year's resource budget has been reduced by 1·6% in real terms. I am sorry to say that the future does not look any better. The Minister referred to that. The Office for Budget Responsibility projections suggest that Northern Ireland could see its resource DEL being cut back by 13% in real terms by 2020.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Stormont House Agreement included provision for £50 million of additional capital DEL for education. At this time, it cannot be included in the Budget because of the disagreement. The voluntary exit scheme is dependent on £700 million of borrowing from the reinvestment and reform initiative. It is also part of the Stormont House Agreement. In the absence of agreement, the money is simply not there, and £200 million of it has been anticipated for the current year. Thirty million pounds is planned to deal with the past, £100 million to repay the loan from the United Kingdom reserve, £114 million for welfare penalties and a further £100 million to cover extra capital projects. That equates to a black hole of some £600 million. How then can we possibly approve a Budget that does not stack up?”
“<BR /> <BR />This time last year, I once again asked the then Minister for an update on the progress — I was being optimistic — of the review of the financial process, because that matter had been stalled since 2012. He very kindly did so and undertook to have further discussions with the Minister of Education, with a view to delivering a significant positive reform of the direct rule inherited publications and financial processes. I would like to know what the current situation is. <BR /> <BR />We all know that the elephant in the room is the failure of Sinn Féin to honour the agreement that it made at Stormont House last year. Welfare reform and its cost have not been agreed, and that is a major unknown. The Estimates need to take that significant fact into account.”
“I am pleased to speak to the House on the Supply resolution. However, the situation is quite different from those in the past. We are not aware of the 2014-15 provision out-turn and therefore have no idea of the departmental budget management performance during the last financial year. We do not know the amount of the resources that the Executive can carry forward through the Budget exchange scheme, and we have not yet had sight of the June monitoring round and its outworkings. Has any money been returned to the Treasury, and has our financial transaction capital budget been fully expended? What is the situation with respect to moneys in the centre? Have all the Barnett consequentials been received and have all welfare penalties been paid?”
“I thank the Minister for that reply. Minister, can you tell me and, indeed, the House whether the proposal to close Northfield House in Donaghadee is likely to have any bearing on the 20-bed unit in Bangor?”
“I thank the Minister for that clarification, and I hope that it used by all Ministers. Minister, bearing that in mind, what is your best estimate of the likely resource and capital that will be returned as reduced requirements in June monitoring?”
“The Minister will be aware that many types of business have been affected quite dramatically, one of them being petrol forecourts. My question is based on the number of appeals that have been lodged. Is any trend emerging from those appeals to suggest, bearing in mind that it is a zero-sum game, that somehow those particular forms of business are suffering more adversely than others?”
“How many strategies in the deputy First Minister's Department's area of responsibility have yet to be published? What are the various reasons for the delays?”
“I agree with her that marching bands preserve our cultural heritage, support local communities and teach our young people new skills. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I urge the Minister to give serious consideration to restoring this vital funding and including it in her budget portfolio for 2016 and beyond. Adding continuity of funding and giving valuable support to the sector can only help to change the perception of marching band communities, locally and further afield. Mrs McKevitt, in her example, mentioned the cooperation between bands. I tell the House that that is by no means unique, and I know many instances of bands lending instruments to each other. That is healthy, and I agree fully that there should be friendly cooperation. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party.”
“are, I believe, relevant and more than meet the criteria for releasing funding for cultural activities in Northern Ireland at this time. <BR /> <BR />Often, the media, unfortunately, give marching bands bad press, especially at sensitive times during what is commonly known, and has been referred to, as the marching season. Whilst we should not condone any unacceptable behaviour at these times by a minority of groups and individuals, neither should all bands be tarred with the same brush, as the press often imply. Marching bands extend much further than that narrow misconception. <BR /> <BR />Valerie Quinn, the chair of the Confederation of Ulster Bands, in her appraisal of the study of marching bands in Northern Ireland, commented:”
“All of these key criteria, along with the claim that the motivation for forming a band:”
“Over the past three years, some £500,000 has been allocated in support of the programme. In the wider scheme of events, another year's secured funding would amount to just over £166,000, which is a small, although not insignificant, amount to release, given the wider cross-community benefits to be gained. The study states:”