Leslie Cree
North Down · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I also thank the Minister for her very full paper this afternoon. I was going to ask about cost, but that has been covered. Obviously, from the point of view of using signing and having available an Irish version and a British version, there could be complications.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Budget also anticipates 30 projects being taken forward that will involve cross-cutting reform and provide overarching governance. Can the Minister elaborate on that work and advise what savings are expected in the Budget year against the cost of £4·5 million?”
“<BR /> <BR />I will illustrate some more points about the current Budget. We know that, under the Budget exchange scheme, there are limits to what can be carried forward from the current year. Is it still 0·6% for resource DEL and 1·5% for capital DEL?”
“Again, I ask the Minister whether he can confirm that that is correct. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we need to be more definite about which projects we fund in the Budget. They need to be clear and time-bound. Some of the strategies that the Executive decided upon in 2007 have not yet been finalised.”
“The fact that spend is usually lower than anticipated has meant that overcommitment has been a feature until this current year. That is not good enough and would not be countenanced by the private sector.”
“We often hear Members complaining that those who query a Budget should suggest where any additional moneys should come from to fund other activities. That approach is greatly flawed and is an oversimplification of the matter. The issue is much more basic: a different approach is required.”
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“The Minister will know that at least one of the wind farms is due to be in operation this year. The contingent action, in case it was delayed, was to sell timber from the Forest Service. Could the Minister tell us how much has been sold during the current year, and if it will meet the budget?”
“It is important that that message is delivered by as many people as possible to try to bring to book the perpetrators of this heinous crime. Someone out there knows what happened. I appeal to the conscience of those who do to come forward and help to put closure to the Dorrian family's pain. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I take the opportunity, as a resident of north Down and a public representative, to reinforce my previous call for those with information to contact the police at the incident room in Newtownards or anonymously through Crimestoppers.”
“As with all victims of our Troubles, the family is left to suffer in the not-knowing place of such crimes. Her memory cannot be laid to rest until she is found or someone comes forward with substantial evidence that will satisfy police investigations. Until that happens, the Dorrian family cannot find closure. <BR /> <BR />I am pleased to note that extensive press coverage has been produced that gives detailed accounts to date of police evidence obtained by the serious crime branch. Detective Chief Inspector Justin Galloway said:”
“I rise in support of the sentiments of my North Down colleagues and to bring public attention to the fact that this cruel crime — committed, it is hard to believe, 10 years ago — remains unsolved. I applaud the local police, who have joined Lisa's parents, Patricia and John, and her sisters, Joanne, Michelle and Ciara, in renewed investigation to find out what happened to their loved one when she disappeared without trace on 28 February 2005. As a political representative, I use this opportunity to appeal to the general public to let the police know anything they feel may help to complete the missing links of what happened on that fateful day. <BR /> <BR />I cannot begin to imagine what the family must go through every day of their life, knowing that Lisa is out there somewhere. They cannot grieve or find rest until they find her remains.”
“Does the Minister have any idea of the number of barristers who are working for less than the national minimum wage and, if that number is significant, will he consider, perhaps, a redistribution or restructuring of the fee system?”
“The Minister will know that there are three basic elements in the plan. Minister, how would the high-risk project funding work in Northern Ireland?”
“Minister, have you had any discussions with your colleague in DETI about the effect of the regulations on food businesses generally? It will work through to the rest of us who like to eat in places like that. Has any high-level consideration been given to combined heat and power biomass applications?”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Minister, have you any detail on likely time frames, applications and even areas to be covered?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for that. I was at Ballykelly recently with the Culture, Arts and Leisure Committee to have a look around and I must say that I was surprised at the number of buildings, which are in all sorts of condition. I wonder whether it is anticipated that any of those buildings will be retained.”
“It is now only a matter of weeks before the end of the financial year, and it would be useful to know what the indications are on several points: the capital spend to be carried forward; the likely Budget exchange scheme result; any resource capital at risk of being returned to the Treasury; the state of financial transactions capital; any resources being held at the centre; and, finally, whether all Barnett consequentials have been taken into account and clearly identified. The Minister referred to a comprehensive programme of public-sector reform that the Executive would shortly adopt. I would like to know whether the Minister can tell us this evening when it is likely to be announced and what the ongoing issues are for Budget 2015-16, which we will scrutinise in detail in June.”
“<BR /> <BR />Last summer, at the Final Stage of the Budget process for the current year, I raised the issue of DARD's wind farm development, which was expected to generate savings of £1 million. There was never any chance of the development being completed in time, and the fallback position was a contingent action to sell timber from the Forest Service. I notice that a lot of trees have been felled in Cairn Wood in my constituency of North Down and remain lying on the ground. I wonder if the Minister can advise us what has happened with the DARD project that was agreed in the Budget.”
“The number of recruitment posts that will be frozen and the number of promotions that will not go ahead would also be appreciated to give some bones to the plans. The group of people who will avail themselves of the scheme is likely, in my opinion, to be at the higher grades. That would cause a loss of experience. If there is no promotion, I wonder how that gap can be closed. Those at the lowest grades are likely to have short service and, with alternative jobs being scarce, they are more likely to remain in post. Clearly, it is vital that the scheme delivers. We should all be concerned that it does and that there are no unplanned scenarios that could cause it to fail.”
“<BR /> <BR />Now that welfare reform has been resolved, I wonder if there is any chance of the penalties that were applied to us because of the non-implementation of the reform being returned to our Budget. I believe that the last figure for the penalties was £114 million. <BR /> <BR />The main reason for the additional borrowing was to fund the voluntary exit scheme. We have been told that the scheme will save £88 million in its first full year in the Civil Service. The Stormont House deal anticipated around 20,000 jobs being lost from the public sector over the next four years. It would help if the Minister could provide further information on his estimate of the split and the likely working out of the scheme.”
“In my opinion, that is not good enough and can easily be overcome by moving the start date of the process forward or backward, depending on how you look at it. <BR /> <BR />The Budget was able to be agreed by the two larger parties because of increased borrowing powers. We know from recent media coverage that increased borrowing was not favoured by the Executive, but it would appear that it was the only way forward. Servicing the existing debt will cost the Executive some £63 million in 2015-16, and that will increase significantly with the additional borrowing. I ask the Minister to advise on the full effect of borrowing in this year's Budget, going forward.”
“As the Minister said, this is the Final Stage of the Budget Bill, and it seems that we have been discussing it for a very long time. It is not difficult to repeat a lot of what has been said, and I do not think that we really want to do that, but there are some important lessons that we have learned in the process. Arguably, the most important one relates to the consultation around the Budget and the consideration of the several thousand responses that were received. There is little evidence that the responses were taken on board in the short time that was available. <BR /> <BR />In many instances, Departments failed to produce spending plans for scrutiny by the respective statutory Committees.”
“I also thank the Minister for her response. Minister, you had a very high-profile launch of the consultation on the Irish language Act in the Senate recently. Can you share with us some of the early responses to and the likely cost of that launch?”
“Does the Minister accept that the current annual reporting system is really a waste of time? Instead of simply asking each Department what it has done during the year, would it not be better to give Departments targets or key performance indicators that they can be measured against?”
“I thank the Minister for that. Can he give us a likely timescale, bearing in mind that the project has been going for some time? Are there any particular safety factors that may need to be considered?”
“Certainly. We will support the DUP amendment on this occasion.”
“That has not happened here this afternoon, and the Ulster Unionist Party will be voting against this theoretical motion.”
“Scotland, as the Chair of the Committee mentioned, has had tax-varying powers for several years and not used them. They obviously have done their homework. <BR /> <BR />There are several taxes that could be transferred, but there is a cost to all of them. Therefore, the economic benefit to be derived has to be set against the cost of the delegated tax. The Ulster Unionist Party remains keen to see corporation tax devolved because it can easily demonstrate that there will be positive returns well above the cost, employment benefits to society and further investment, to name but a few. I would imagine that there is no one here who would resist the devolution of further fiscal powers, but any proposed measures must demonstrate the economic and social benefits that make the project viable.”
“He was right on that occasion. He is not always right, but he was right on that occasion. The Union with Britain brings us almost £10 billion a year in the form of a top-up, a subvention above and beyond what we as a region of the UK are able to raise ourselves. I trust that the proposers of the motion will be able to elucidate on their economic theories with practical, researched examples of how we could raise the £10 billion alone. <BR /> <BR />We wait with interest to hear what is the grand economic plan of Sinn Féin to use other financial powers to generate huge sums of money for the Government of Northern Ireland. It is not enough just to generalise about other sources of revenue or taxes. You have to understand how they work and the effect that they may have on the economy as a whole.”
“Were the Tory cuts responsible for those austerity actions? No, the Government at Westminster were taking prudent action to pay our debts following a worldwide recession. <BR /> <BR />It is not often I quote Sammy Wilson, but he summed it up in December 2010, when he said about the deal at that time:”
“We did not have to be bailed out by others. In fact, we were very much fitter than our friends in the Republic of Ireland. We did not need outside assistance to prevent bankruptcy. <BR /> <BR />It is also worth noting that the United Kingdom was able to assist with funds amounting to £7·5 billion as part the £85 billion bailout for the Irish Republic. We are part of the United Kingdom, which is a major world economy. That is a significant strength for us. Economic governance from Dublin, which the Members opposite advocate, would have been a disaster. Hopefully, we will learn from that experience. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin would also have us believe that austerity measures were just an experiment conducted by the Westminster Government. Why, then, did Portugal, Italy, Spain, Greece and other countries in the eurozone have the same problems?”
“It also implies that the Executive have powers that they have not yet considered as part of the Budget process. <BR /> <BR />Michaela Boyle, in a recent debate, stated that we were at a crossroads and had a choice of remaining wedded to the Westminster austerity experiment or carving out our own economic future. I was, therefore, looking forward to learning today how that could be achieved, even if we wanted to break the marriage with the rest of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />I am disappointed that no new pearls of wisdom have emerged here today. Instead, we have had a diatribe of taking full financial powers, taking control of our welfare budget and policy, and other powers over our economy. Westminster is blamed for the situation. <BR /> <BR />There is apparently no understanding that we are emerging from a world economic crisis.”
“It is good to learn from Members across the House that they are all committed to building a society and an economy of opportunity, prosperity and fairness. That was not always the case, and the damage to our economy during the 30-odd years of terrorism was not helpful. It was very much counterproductive and, to some extent, lingers on today. <BR /> <BR />This Sinn Féin motion:”
“Will the Minister clarify, in the case of foetal abnormality, whether there is a set number of weeks when a termination can be performed?”
“<BR /> <BR />Finally, I ask the Minister for an update, if he can give it to me and, indeed, the House, on EU funding, particularly INTERREG V, which is likely to assist in the 2015-16 Budget.”
“Can the Minister confirm the situation? If so, is there sufficient headroom to cover the shortfall? <BR /> <BR />I return now to the Stormont House Agreement. There is a figure of £350 million of additional borrowing to support capital investment projects, and £100 million from borrowing is provided for 2015-16. I would appreciate some detail on what has been planned for that. As we touched on last week, the £30 million change fund is intended to stimulate innovation, improve outcomes for citizens and generate savings. Will the Minister advise whether that is a brand new approach, or will it turn out to be a continuation of previous or existing schemes?”
“The £30 million of resource DEL has been provided for the funding of bodies to deal with the past. What are the plans? <BR /> <BR />Arguably, one of the greatest challenges facing the Assembly is the voluntary exit scheme. Up to £200 million of reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) borrowing will be used. What plans have been put in place to deal with the issue? What action will be taken if there are too few volunteers? I ask the Minister to advise on the costs arising from any delay in that scheme, as it appears, in my opinion, to have the potential to fail. <BR /> <BR />At the recent Budget debate, the Minister referred to the £13 million in the Department for Regional Development's budget that was anticipated to come from the reserves of the harbour commissioner. Apparently, the legal opinion is that that is not possible.”
“As Mr Bradley just said, 2015-16 is not geared to the Programme for Government, and we expect to have a new comprehensive spending round, which will shape the immediate future. <BR /> <BR />The Stormont House Agreement provided for a package to help the Executive to achieve their priorities. Up to £50 million additional capital DEL will be available for new shared and integrated education projects. The Budget 2015-16 is, at this stage, simply a block of figures — some 45% of last year's Budget — and does not have any detail. However, as we all know, the year starts on 1 April, and plans will have to be in place before then. So, how will this £50 million be spent and where will the benefits be felt?”
“The only thing that he does not seem to have learned is the Minister's lecture on economic theory. That seems to have gone over his head, I am afraid. However, I will turn to the task in hand. <BR /> <BR />The Bill covers the 2014-15 financial year and provides legal authority to spend for the early part of 2015-16. In June, we will consider the Main Estimates for 2015-16. Despite the fact that we are approaching the year end, it remains crucial that Committees continue to monitor the spending of their respective Departments so that underspends are minimised, and the risk of having to return funding to the Treasury will be avoided. There is little time left — about six weeks — in this final year of the four-year Budget. The year marked a turning point, and we face a tighter financial future.”
“It is a pleasure to speak on the Second Stage of the Budget Bill. This is always an interesting subject. There are discussions on a wide range of areas, and we have already had examples of that this afternoon. The only thing that I have not yet heard is the weather forecast, but maybe that will come up a little later. <BR /> <BR />It was encouraging to hear our Chairman talk about the memorandum of understanding. Other Members also touched on the review of the financial process, which we have been preaching here for years. The Minister will be pleased to know that, having heard that that be well covered by other Members, I will just leave it on the record as this: let us have it for next year — end of story. It is ridiculous. It is a pity that the Chairman of the Committee has just gone.”
“What action is the Minister taking to concentrate on non-academic skills, such as confidence, resilience, trustworthiness and other essential life skills?”
“Anticipating a satisfactory response from him, I will be prepared to support the two resolutions today on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the Main Estimate for the Northern Ireland judicial pension scheme. It is proposed to have the scheme in place by 1 April this year, and the secondary legislation is under way. Authority to spend under the scheme must be in place before that date, and we have little choice other than to approve the expenditure provision. The Supply resolution has allowed resources not exceeding £50,000 for the year ending 31 March 2016.”
“On the other hand, I acknowledge that some of the commission's decisions are common sense — if sense be common — and the wearing of poppies was such a case. However, a petition of concern has been tabled so that the amendment will not be allowed, which, I have to say, is another decision that is a major concern to me. We hope to recognise that everyone in the Equality Commission is not guilty of illogical decisions, and many are hard-working. I believe that 10 members of staff were released only last week. <BR /> <BR />Another area that remains vague is the target for asset realisation. We started off the Budget with an expectation of £100 million for the four years. Perhaps the Minister will clarify what the current situation is.”
“I have said before that it is not ideal to vote through an authorisation to spend almost half the Budget when we do not have the necessary details of that Budget to scrutinise. Until we have a better financial process, we have to use the existing system, poor as it is. <BR /> <BR />Mr Allister has tabled an amendment to change the Vote on Account so that the Equality Commission will have its budget reduced by £250,000, and this will presumably extend for the full year. I understand why the Equality Commission has been targeted as some of its decisions are, to say the least, bizarre. The Ashers bakery case is a classic example of Christian values being regarded by the commission as a bias, and the bakery has been prosecuted.”
“The figures in the Supply resolution and the Budget Bill are the same as those in the corresponding spring Supplementary Estimates. They are both routine requirements at this stage of the financial year to obtain legislative Assembly authority for spending for the resources and associated cash requirements for the revised 2014-15 position. However, I ask the Minister for an assurance, which I am sure he will give me, that no unspent resources and capital, both conventional and financial transactions, will be returned to the Treasury this year. <BR /> <BR />The Vote on Account today is needed to ensure that the flow of cash continues to Departments, and it authorises spending of around 45% of the Budget, as the Minister confirmed.”
“<BR /> <BR />For a variety of reasons, the Departments struggle throughout the year to spend their capital budgets. It seems prudent that some capital has been built into the Estimates by way of headroom to allow for flexibility at the year end. The return of capital to the Treasury would be most regrettable, bearing in mind the pressing needs in Northern Ireland at this time. DRD would receive £3 million for further investment for road structural maintenance, and DSD could receive £12 million for further investment in housing stock. <BR /> <BR />I also welcome DFP's condition that, should the spending not materialise, the Department's virement approval would not be given later to cover excess spending in other areas.”
“We will shortly enter the last year of the mandate of this Assembly, and I urge the Executive to press on with a proper system, despite the intransigence of the Education Minister. <BR /> <BR />The Finance Committee has taken evidence from departmental officials in the last few weeks. The Chairman has spoken about this, so I will not go into specifics on the work of the Committee in that regard. The Supply resolution seeks the Assembly's approval of the Executive's final spending plans for 2014-15, as detailed in the spring Supplementary Estimates. At this stage of the year, the Estimates have included all the changes from the monitoring rounds and are largely technical in nature. They require Assembly approval and are the final spending plans for this year.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the two Supply resolutions that are being debated together today. <BR /> <BR />As usual, the spring Supplementary Estimates contain a lot of figures, and I appreciate that it was no easy task to collate the information. It is three years since Mr Bradley, as Deputy Chairperson of the Committee, brought a motion to the House that gave effect to approving the Committee's report on implementing a review of the financial process in Northern Ireland. The report was adopted and supported by all. It called on the then Minister of Finance and Personnel, in conjunction with relevant Executive colleagues, to implement the report's recommendations. It is a shame that nothing has moved on since then and that we are still labouring with a system that has long since passed its sell-by date.”
“I will continue to push my luck. Can the Minister reassure us that she is still wedded to her decision to ensure that libraries do not close as a result of budget cuts?”
“The Minister will know that, because regional stadia funding was returned, the Executive have agreed to consider favourably any in-year bids, provided they have the money. Has the Minister drawn up such a list yet, or is she considering that issue?”
“The Minister has touched on this issue, but will she provide an update on the progress of the audit from the Chinese authorities on the pig industry?”
“I thank the Minister for the statement. Minister, you referred to the 2013 indicative budget and said that that was carried through into the draft business plans for 2014 and 2015. You also referred to key priorities. Will you expand on what, on the face of it, looks like a confusing picture?”
“I thank the Minister for her report, which was very interesting. She referred to a number of key priorities for 2015 being approved; perhaps she could share some detail of that with us.”
“It is not sufficient just to be able to ask questions and, perhaps, have some of them answered by a Minister. <BR /> <BR />I hope that Members will consider this amendment and support these changes to the Budget, which my party proposes.”
“<BR /> <BR />The draft Budget contains provisions for the removal of the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development headquarters from Dundonald House to Ballykelly. A full business case has not been prepared. Therefore, there is no case of value for money. The condition of the buildings at Ballykelly is very poor. I believe that this is a material consideration that has not been factored in. Until these basic steps are concluded, there should not be Budget inclusion for that proposal. <BR /> <BR />We need a better system than the current Budget process, with all its shortcomings. I know that the Minister will say I am being consistent. We agreed a new financial process years ago and it is still stuck in the Executive. The existing process does not cater for meaningful involvement of parties and individual Members.”
“Our amendment would allocate a further £1 5 million resource DEL to the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety for the use of the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service. <BR /> <BR />All the foregoing allocations amount to £11 million resource DEL, and we all know that resources are very tight in the period 2015-16. <BR /> <BR />The capital side is not so critical. The Ulster Unionist amendment envisages transferring £15 million to the Department for Regional Development. That is a requirement for major water and sewerage infrastructure investment, as set out in the PC15 determination, which covers the period 2015-2021. Transport Northern Ireland has an urgent need for more capital, as it is £70 million short. The £15 million would help in both cases.”
“We also propose that the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure be allocated £1·5 million of resource DEL to alleviate the significant pressures caused by reductions to the arts and Northern Ireland's museums' budgets. <BR /> <BR />Earlier, I touched on the definition of "front-line services". The Fire Brigades Union provided Members with its response to the draft Budget. In it, the union set out a very convincing case for treating the Fire Service as a front-line service. I know that the relevant Minister does not share that view. He is entitled to his opinion, but the facts are that the Fire Service deals directly with the public as a result of life- or property-threatening emergencies, provides a vital service to the public at a time of an emergency and can be utilised directly at the point of need. It deserves to be treated fairly.”