Raymond McCartney
Foyle · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“Comhghairdeas leis an Aire. I congratulate the Minister on what is, obviously, a very challenging portfolio. I welcome the statement. I welcome the speed with which you have met the unions and, hopefully, share your optimism that you have put on the table an offer that will see an end to the industrial action.”
“This is a classic case of, sometimes, a decision being made that, people think, is the right thing to do at one time that only pushes another challenge down the road. We need a commitment from the Minister to ensure that we have a mechanism in place to safeguard us against that.”
“The Minister has alluded to the fact that the Assembly is about to dissolve, and we will all go to the doors in the coming weeks. I commend the Minister. Certainly, when we go to the doors, many issues will be raised, and it will be good for us, as Assembly Members, to be able to say to people, "No water tax".”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as na freagraí sin. I thank the Minister for his answers. We talked about the cost of division, but I ask him to talk about the reputational damage to the Assembly that has come about as a result of some disgraceful decisions that were blatantly discriminatory, sectarian in the truest sense of the word and pa…”
“That aside, it is fair to say that, over a long number of years, the expansion of the campus at Magee has been very much part of the politics of the north-west; indeed, Stephen Farry, in fairness, talked about it.”
“The university, in presenting that, gave all the pluses around that and said clearly that one of the things, particularly at postgraduate entry in medical schools and in other courses, from experiences elsewhere, is the idea of what they call the 20:20 rule — people stay within 20 miles of where they were educated for 20 years.”
The complete record
Every one of 553 lines we hold for Raymond McCartney, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 8 of 12.
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an ráiteas seo. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I thank the Minister for his statement and, indeed, welcome it. I know that the departmental officials will be in front of the Committee shortly to brief us, and we will tease out some of the wider aspects of this. I look forward to that. <BR /> <BR />The Minister, in one of the paragraphs, posed the question of whether people will consider this a review of a review. I am just wondering how best he can offset that. Perhaps it would be best for him and the Department to ensure that we know what is going to be done, when it is going to be done and how it is going to be done. I wonder whether the Minister agrees with that.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for his answers to date. Irrespective of what works out in terms of the Stormont House Agreement, will the autonomy and independence of the inquest system remain unchanged?”
“It is that type of intervention that we have to turn our attention to. <BR /> <BR />Mark H Durkan also talked about the stigma of mental health and people perhaps finding it difficult to discuss, even with family or friends. In recent times, we have seen high-profile people in sport, music or other professions talking about suffering from depression and dealing with mental health issues. That allows us all to realise that dealing with that issue is not down to the circumstances that you find yourself in. Depression pervades the lives of many people. Dealing with the stigma does not take much resource, but it can have a great impact.”
“There is a complex mix of reasons why people find themselves in that position, so when we are looking for solutions or remedies, we also have to look at that complexity. <BR /> <BR />Resources will always add to our ability to combat suicide. We have heard from experts such as clinicians and people who work in statutory provision, as well as in the community and voluntary sector, that they all have a common theme, which is early intervention. All of us have a contribution to make, be it supporting clinicians, families or other initiatives to ensure that there is early intervention. <BR /> <BR />Mark H talked about a situation in Derry when a lad was rescued by the PSNI at the point of taking his own life. However, the police themselves, even in public comment, said that they had nowhere at that time to take that person.”
“I think that all of us this week would have received the briefing paper from the Bamford Centre at Ulster University. We know from daily life, our work, and particularly those on the Health Committee, that we are bombarded with statistics. While they help us to identify the problem, sometimes, particularly on an occasion like today, statistics may dehumanise what is a personal and human problem. <BR /> <BR />However, the paper provided an insight into the complexity of people who find themselves in a position where for them the only way out of a problem is to end their lives. When you see the breakdown in the statistics, perhaps there is a tendency for us to make assumptions.”
“It is hard to speak for other people, but in our daily work and daily life, we know many people who have been affected directly by it. We see how it devastates families, and Mark H Durkan spoke poignantly and movingly about his personal experiences. To come to a forum like this and speak in that way is remarkable. I want to put that on the record.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I add my thanks to Gary Middleton for securing a debate on what is obviously a very important subject. To use his maiden speech in that regard is good testimony to how he sees the issue of people who take their own life, particularly in Derry and the rest of our constituency. It is good to see the Minister here. It is possibly his first engagement with the Assembly in his new role, and that highlights the need for the subject to get this type of attention. <BR /> <BR />There is absolutely no doubt that the subject of people who take their own life affects many, many people and families. As other Members have said, it is very complex, and we have to be very sensitive and take great care when we discuss it.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for his answers. Leading on from the previous question, I wonder whether the Minister accepts that this is an excellent example of Departments working together that has led to tangible results. How can we build upon that?”
“<BR /> <BR />I commend the Chair and, on behalf of Sinn Féin, thank the Committee staff and the researchers for the valuable work they have carried out over a long number of years. Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle.”
“I was on the Assembly and Executive Review Committee and then sat on the Justice Committee when it was established, which no doubt provided an excellent insight into the many agencies and the many different aspects of the Justice Department that were coming here for the first time. <BR /> <BR />The last report of the Committee was on women and politics, which perhaps was not strictly within the confines of Parts 3 and 4 of the Act. Again, as we go forward, that will be seen as the basis for more discussion. Everybody in the Committee accepted that the Assembly — indeed, politics in general, not just here — could do more to encourage and make provision for more women in politics. That report will be seen in that context.”
“There have been 10 reports carried out, and the Chair outlined a number of them. For me, some of the reports were very informative, and the witnesses who came to the Committee and the number of research papers — as the Chair outlined, there were 53 — provided a lot of information and insight into how the Assembly could work better. I do not think that any of us is naïve enough to not know that some of the discussions we took part in would need some sort of political leadership as well. So, as we take things forward, we know that. <BR /> <BR />The first two reports that the Committee carried out were into the transfer of policing and justice powers.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the report. Indeed, I thank the Chair for his work over the last number of years, particularly on the reports that have been carried out recently. I am the only person who has remained on the Committee since its inception in 2007. I do not know what that says about the Committee or me, but I have been there from the beginning.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. Thank you very much, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I thank the Minister for his answer. Magilligan prison has featured very well over a number of CJINI reports. As part of its approach, will the senior management team look at the slippage areas and at what perhaps led to the slippage in some of the areas that are now weaker?”
“I have often heard of the expression to split hairs, but that is splitting hairs. The Minister is responsible for the Water Service. <BR /> <BR />The Organised Crime Task Force was in front of the Committee and there was much discussion around the lack of convictions; and there are many, many issues that we have to explore in relation to that. It was interesting to hear that only two people in their presentations this afternoon put forward the fact that this is an excepted matter. This has been long running, with the much-vaunted NCA involved for a long number of years, so the record for turning this —”
“No, I will not give way. You had plenty of time. <BR /> <BR />He should have asked the Water Service to conduct an investigation into whether the water in Crossmaglen and all those other places he named was poisoned. I see nowhere in the public record — and I may be wrong — where the Water Service carried out an investigation and came and told us all, "Lo and behold, our waterways are poisoned". I did not see any of that. <BR /> <BR />On 11 February, the Organised Crime Task Force was in front of the Committee —”
“It carried out an investigation into, let me say it, the allegations put forward by the 'Sunday Independent', and it said that it tested the water on a daily basis and found no evidence. So, I am a bit surprised that someone like Stewart Dickson, who is a wee bit more measured when it comes to these types of things, also allowed himself to fall into the 'Sunday Independent' trap. <BR /> <BR />In these situations, if people have genuine concerns about water — and Mr Beggs fell into the trap of relying on the 'Sunday Independent' — Danny Kennedy is the Minister for Regional Development, and one of the aspects of his portfolio is the Water Service. He should have asked the Water Service to —”
“<BR /> <BR />I listened to Jonathan Bell, and I find common cause with most of what he said, but the lawyers in the room would agree that, if you were presenting any case, you would not want to start with saying that these are unnamed, anonymous sources from the 'Sunday Independent'. I think that they would advise you never to present a case in that way. It is easy for people to make allegations, and it is easy to hide behind reliable sources, unnamed sources or people who do not want to go public. There are people who are vested with protecting the environment and our waterways. Uisce Éireann — Irish Water — is tasked with looking after the waterways in the Twenty-six Counties.”
“That echoes the comments of our party colleagues in the Oireachtas — Gerry Adams, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn and Kathryn Reilly — who spoke recently in similar debates about closer cooperation to ensure that this type of activity is stamped out. <BR /> <BR />Other people this afternoon spoke about the other side of the criminal activity, and that is the damage to the environment. We have seen that in toxic dumps. Indeed, Mr Attwood spoke about the dump in Derry. I was the first person to call for a public inquiry into that dump because there are many unanswered questions. People have suspicions, and he may be right that there may be people in authority who have turned a blind eye or have been silenced in some way. As a public representative, I, certainly, have nothing to fear from a public inquiry. I say, bring it on.”
“Go raibh agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I support the comments of Seán Lynch; he outlined very well the Sinn Féin position. Fuel laundering is a criminal offence, and those who involve themselves in it, be it distribution or profiting from the business, should be arrested and face trial for that criminality. Any member of the public with any information should come forward and give it to the PSNI. I do not think that it can be put any more clearly than that. Indeed, I appeal to people who sometimes find themselves in the trap of thinking that it is legitimate or OK to use laundered fuel to desist because if people did not use it, the demand would not be created.”
“Should that be extended to all those who were interned without trial, never mind a case that —”
“The proposer did not try to enlighten us as to why that should be when a man stands convicted in that case.”
“<BR /> <BR />I accept that Mr Worton should be considered for compensation, but, if you accept that, you have to accept that it is a universal principle. There are other people. We cannot support the case of the UDR four being considered a miscarriage of justice.”
“A person stands convicted in that case. I did not hear those who tabled the motion make any case for that being overturned. That is why we cannot support it. They did not come here today and say that torture happened wholesale in Castlereagh and that there were Diplock courts. Indeed, I refer to Mr Allister's insight at that time, when he said that the trial judge in this case took no prisoners. That is a good commentary on that particular time because that is what judges did then: they took no prisoners. They accepted the word of the RUC wholesale, but case after case, including this one, showed that there were torture techniques and malpractice in Castlereagh and that the Diplock courts were all too willing to accept it.”
“That is a fair point, which we would accept if the first clause of the motion had not been in it. The Assembly is being asked to accept:”
“That is an excellent point, and we should address it here today. I firmly believe that the Members who raised this issue are absolutely content that this was a miscarriage of justice. If you accept that, you also have to accept that there are other similar cases in which people have not been given any legal redress or compensation.”
“That led to a man being tried and acquitted, but he was not compensated. If you accept that, you also have to accept that it is a universal principle. Many, many other cases went through the court system in which people were acquitted, and the trial judge pointed out that there were abuses by the RUC, yet those people were told that there was no legal redress. Indeed, I refer to one case in which the witness was an agent of the state. The trial judge called him a liar and said that he was unworthy of belief, fabricated evidence and was encouraged by the RUC to fabricate evidence against people. All those people were acquitted in the first instance, yet not one of them received any compensation. They were told that they were not permitted to do so legally.”
“That is against the backdrop over the last number of years, almost monthly, of cases that were referred to the Court of Appeal by the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) being overturned by that court, and the trial in that court pointing out abuses by the RUC, the British Army and, indeed, in times gone by, the PPS, yet those who tabled the motion take no recognition of that at all. I think that, in these types of cases, you have to be able to say that, if the process was flawed then, the outcomes, on many occasions, were also flawed. The motion does not address that in any way, which is why we cannot support it. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the case of Mr Worton. I think that you can accept that there is a case to be made. Here was a person with regard to whom the courts accepted that the RUC abused its power.”
“Those who tabled the motion are trying to paint the scenario that this was somehow the only miscarriage of justice that went through the Diplock courts — far from it, and we have to address that as well.”
“Then the proposer came to the Floor and did not mention that case, except for Colin Worton, who was not designated by the campaign as one of the UDR four. It amazes me that a person stands convicted, yet the proposer of the motion made no case for why that is a miscarriage of justice. <BR /> <BR />There is a case to be made that Mr Worton should be considered for compensation, and I will return to that. As I have just pointed out, the motion is framed in a particular way. Perhaps if the supporters of the motion had come here today and said that this case bore all the hallmarks of many cases that passed through Castlereagh and the Diplock courts, we would be having a different debate with a different outcome. Therein lies the problem for us.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I want to begin my remarks by extending my solidarity to the family of Adrian Carroll. As we have said many times, I am sure that a debate such as this reminds the family of the trauma and grief that they are experiencing. I am a bit perturbed that the proposer of the motion did not acknowledge that family in any way, but that follows the trend from the Adjournment debate in 2012, when not one Member from the unionist parties acknowledged the family at the heart of this. Perhaps they might have the good grace to correct that today. <BR /> <BR />The motion asks that the Assembly:”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for her answer. I am just wondering what work will be done, particularly with the online bookmakers, to make sure that they are also part of whatever revenue is raised.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I apologise for not being in my place for an earlier question.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for his answer. I note that, in his answer, he made no reference to the 15% levy. Does he now accept that it is fundamentally unfair and, therefore, fundamentally flawed to go forward with that type of levy?”
“We have to be positive; we have to look at all the measures that have been outlined in the report. Parties have to be bold. The position that Trevor Lunn outlined is also the way to do it. Where opportunities present themselves, we can be imaginative and innovative and have a very positive outcome as a result.”
“I think that every measure possible should be taken. I can say now that we had a very successful ard-fheis at the weekend in Derry. Where else to hold it, and why would it not be success? Our ard-chomhairle, or national executive, if you like, is made up by a quota. There is an open election by the membership, but we have to elect six men and six women. That is the type of thing that has done Sinn Féin no harm. Indeed, I could sit here and say that perhaps that is a good way to be because, after all, we are the largest party on the island of Ireland. Sometimes, positive and affirmative action can lead to positive and affirmative outcomes. <BR /> <BR />My general point is that it is very important to say that, if we retreat into old arguments, we will end up doing the same thing again.”
“I think that he took the approach that, while he knows that people can retreat into saying that it is down to merit, there are certain procedures in place that can skew merit in a particular way. He invited the Committee to invite him back in a number of years, and he said that, if he had not changed that, he would be open to criticism. I think that that is the type of approach that we have to take, because, where there is an obvious bias and an obvious inequality, it is appropriate to take steps. Other people in other institutions in other places have done that and done it quite successfully. I think that people who try to defend the merit principle are frightened of positive and affirmative action. I do not think affirmative action in any undermines anybody's position, particularly —”
“If we do believe that, we are certainly deluding ourselves. Alastair Ross made the point that the population make-up is around 50:50, yet, when you look across many, many sectors — the Assembly is no different — you see a lower percentage of women. That has to put us in a position where we are asking questions. I do not think that you can retreat into the position where you say that it is all down to merit and that merit dictates it; that is too simplistic. <BR /> <BR />I think that we all know that, in certain institutions and with certain cultural values, you can use merit as a cover for prevailing and dominant views. Indeed, the Lord Chief Justice has been in front of our Justice Committee, and, particularly at senior level, the legal profession has a complete predominance of men.”
“I think that the report would not have the same meaning, effect or deep purpose if there was not provision for how we can tackle the issue. I think that the question of how we change is the most important thing for the Committee, as it should be for all the parties in the Assembly. There are very clear recommendations on what the Assembly can do to make the place more approachable and better for people with caring responsibilities. Various parties have outlined some of the measures and some of the steps that can and should be taken in relation to this, which is very important. <BR /> <BR />I also think that we have to be very mindful and very careful that we do not believe that nothing needs to be changed or that, if we continue to do what we are doing, we will have different outcomes.”
“I think that it is a comprehensive report, and I echo the sentiments of other Members about the quality of the research. I was not on any of the trips, but the feedback from the trips showed us how other institutions can tackle this problem. The research was not just about pointing out where inequalities existed but gave us templates for how things could be changed. I think that the report is very important and provides an excellent snapshot of where the Assembly now sits. I think that from reading it, it is fair to say that, while there are positive aspects of the work carried out here in the Assembly, we could and should be doing better. That is the task ahead. <BR /> <BR />The other strength of the report is that we can see from the research and particularly the recommendations where we should go next.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. First, I welcome the report. Indeed, I have been on the Assembly and Executive Review Committee since its inception a number of years ago, and I think that this will be seen as one of its better pieces of work.”
“<BR /> <BR />To his colleagues in the Ulster Unionist Party, and from Mike Nesbitt's contribution, it is easy to appreciate the high esteem and fondness in which he is held, and we extend our sympathy to your party at your sense of loss of a valued colleague. <BR /> <BR />Whereas his political views were different from mine, I have no doubt that Jim Molyneaux would agree that he lived out the last years of his life in a more peaceful and stable place than would have been his experience in his active political life. He served as a constituency MP for some 27 years and enjoyed the obvious support and confidence of his constituents. Today, as we hear of his passing, we hope he finds restful peace. Agus mar sin, go ndéana trócaire ar a anam.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. On behalf of Sinn Féin, I want to extend our sympathies to the family and friends of Jim Molyneaux, Lord Killead, who died this morning. At 94 years of age, he lived a long and fulfilling life both politically and personally. Jim Molyneaux was undoubtedly a significant figure in unionism, having led the Ulster Unionist Party for almost two decades. The focus will be on his contribution as a political figure, and his loss to his family and friends can often take second place, so I want his family and friends to know that they are very much in our thoughts today and in the coming days.”
“From where I got my life experience, I reflect on Bloody Sunday and on who were the savage and who were the brave? I reflect on the British state and its allies, who glorified, protected and decorated those who did it. From that day until this day, I will take no lectures on whom I consider the brave. Raymond McCreesh was unbowed and unbroken, and we will be unbowed and unbroken in upholding his memory.”
“<BR /> <BR />I accept that no one will change their opinion, but it should make you realise that your view of the world is not one shared by all. I certainly accept that my view of the world is not one shared by everyone. In accepting this, I have to play my part in ensuring that we live in a place where different and, indeed, competing views have the space to coexist. That is a challenge we all face, and it is one that we cannot pretend does not exist. Denial or manufactured moral superiority will not make it disappear. Private Member's Bills to ascertain who bangs the drum the loudest will not make it disappear. <BR /> <BR />The songwriter Mick Hanly could not have known that this debate was about to take place today, but he certainly knew that it is a debate that takes place over and over again in different places at different times.”
“Indeed, I have heard many others acknowledge their courage and integrity without endorsing their political philosophy. So people cannot and should not be surprised that this manifests itself in places, organisations and events being named and held in their memory. No one should expect us, their friends and comrades, to apologise for doing that. Perhaps, today, some people could ask of themselves, quietly and without the need for a spoken reply, why this is so. Why is it that 94% of the people surveyed all approved that the park should be in Raymond's name? Why was it that 30,493 people voted to make Bobby Sands their MP? Why was it that hundreds of thousands attended their funerals? To the SDLP, I ask: why was it that so many of your councillors did not turn up for the council meeting and the one who did abstained from the vote?”
“Not all of them were republicans and nationalists; indeed, many of them opposed the use of arms. However, all of them were united in recognising that those imprisoned at that time in Long Kesh, Armagh and Crumlin Road Gaol were political prisoners. They recognised that the conflict that was raging on our streets required a political solution to bring it to an end. The hunger strike dismantled the policy of criminalisation. The recognition in the release of political prisoners in 1998 under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement and all subsequent agreements is the obvious validation that criminalisation failed. <BR /> <BR />The courage and resolve of Raymond McCreesh and his nine comrades is held in the highest regard in the republican and nationalist community.”
“Thank you very much, a Cheann Comhairle. I totally and absolutely agree, and I think that any person who knew Raymond McCreesh would know that some of the comments are very offensive. <BR /> <BR />I have no inclination to indulge myself in pointing out the very obvious contradictions that surround this type of subject. That said, there are some things that need to be said to give this debate some context. Raymond McCreesh died on 21 May 1981 after 61 days on hunger strike. The hunger strike was the culmination of a five-year campaign to defeat the British Government's policy of criminalisation. Central to that campaign was the National H-Block/Armagh movement, which garnered the support of thousands and thousands of people throughout Ireland and beyond.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I wish to begin by extending solidarity to the family of Raymond McCreesh. I am very conscious that, in debates like this, some people tend to ignore or disregard his family, their feelings and their loss. I certainly have no desire in this debate, or hopefully in any debate, to add to the grief of any family that bears a loss.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagraí. I thank the Minister for his answers to date. There is a good presentation here in relation to capital build projects in Newry and Armagh. Will the Minister take this opportunity to give an update on capital projects across the North?”
“We want to be part of a united approach and to show positive leadership to bring about meaningful change.”