Gerry Kelly
North Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Accountability and implementation have been mentioned a number of times. The test in all of this will be the speed of implementation. I declare an interest, in that my sister Peggy, who was next in the family to me, spent time in Muckamore many years ago.”
“I will finish in one second. When I asked her how she was doing, she said that she wanted me to go and help others. That is what she spent our time together talking about. <BR /> <BR />We are talking not just about closing Muckamore but about resettling people.”
“I understand that the amendment is not a panacea. Ultimately, however, it will improve the tools at the police's disposal. <BR /> <BR />There is a further issue regarding what happens to the vehicles once they are seized.”
“Sinn Féin supports all three of the amendments in group five. As we know, amendment Nos 74 and 75 will introduce new powers to allow the police do drug testing at checkpoints and road traffic collisions, which will bring drug testing in line with existing alcohol breath testing. It is a necessary step to ensure public safety.”
“We talked about regulations earlier, and a number of Members said that we may have to return to the issue. I understand that we are dealing with one particular issue in the Bill, but the Minister may agree that it is something that we should come back to as our experience of what is happening grows.”
“<BR /> <BR />In West Belfast just last week, at least two children were hospitalised as a result of collisions involving e-scooters and e-bikes, including one in which a young person's head went through the back window of a car. They are very lucky to be alive.”
The complete record
Every one of 547 lines we hold for Gerry Kelly, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 7 of 11.
“There was particular emphasis and instruction given that they should be worn in what appear to be cases of domestic violence. While it might not be an incident of domestic violence at the time, I think that the collective view is that the use of a camera would be helpful if there is a further incident. <BR /> <BR />It has been raised at previous stages, including at Committee for Justice evidence sessions, that implementation of the Bill will take 12 months after it is enacted in order to ensure, as we have been told, that law enforcement officers are trained properly. I will seek assurances that the training can be conducted in as timely a manner as possible whilst also taking care to ensure that it is of the highest possible standard.”
“However, it will require that adequate resources be set aside and training given to PSNI officers who will implement the legislation on the front line. I welcome that other Members have mentioned that we must prepare for that because it may take some time to bring it through. Legislation is only as valuable as how it is utilised. If police officers are not adequately trained to implement the legislation, it will be a pointless exercise. While I am confident that they will be able to implement it, they must be supported in their efforts to do so. <BR /> <BR />I think that Paul Frew mentioned body-worn cameras. Indeed, before the COVID-19 crisis, there was an issue with the guidelines on the use of body-worn cameras when dealing with domestic violence cases, even though they are issued to every police officer.”
“I welcome the police's focus at a fairly early stage — a very early stage — on tackling the increase in domestic abuse cases during the COVID-19 crisis. At the Policing Board, we were told that they went out rapidly in pursuit of 70 of the most high-risk abusers, and arrested a considerable number of them. The last number that I got was 48. I presume that it has risen since then, and hopefully so. There has been a proactive focus from all quarters towards protecting abuse victims during this difficult time. That has been noted and welcomed by victims' support and advocacy groups, including Women's Aid. <BR /> <BR />The Bill's provisions will be a bit more complex than those of existing legislation. The outlawing of coercive control is a very positive and welcome move.”
“To that end, it is crucial that Ministers continue to work together to put in place all necessary protections for victims.”
“It is of paramount importance that the Minister of Justice and the Minister for Communities work together to ensure that additional emergency accommodation provision for victims of domestic abuse can be put in place where needed.”
“Women and children, as was said earlier, are more likely to be spending much more time with the perpetrators. Police and other agencies — I should have said at the start that I am also a member of the Policing Board, and I will mention that in a moment — are working with organisations such as Women's Aid and other named organisations to overcome the barriers to victims of domestic abuse seeking and receiving the help that they need. <BR /> <BR />Local political representatives, the Assembly and the Executive must also play our part. There is a real risk of existing domestic abuse refuges and emergency accommodation being overwhelmed.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill comes in the context not only of the previous delay and the urgent need to put in place legislative protections for victims, but of the increasing evidence that the levels of domestic abuse are on the rise globally and here in Ireland, during the COVID-19 crisis. There has been a huge rise in calls and online requests for help to domestic abuse helplines. As some Members said, and I can say myself, we are getting calls into our offices on that basis and they have clearly risen. <BR /> <BR />Let me make one thing very clear about the context: the present situation does not cause victims of domestic violence. Abusers do. It is of great concern that many victims of domestic abuse may be suffering more while in lockdown or self-isolation.”
“I welcome that the Justice Minister raised the fact that while the vast majority of this abuse is against women, there are other types of abuse, and we have evidence that those are vastly underreported as well. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is one part of the wider concerted action that is needed. Other steps need to follow. As a society and as an Assembly, as everyone has said so far, we cannot tolerate that abuse in any shape or form. Sinn Féin are fully supportive of the clauses of the Bill, which will outlaw all those forms of abuse that were listed earlier. I will not list them again because they have been stated a number of times.”
“I welcome the comments that the Chairperson of the Committee for Justice made earlier when he indicated that the Committee for Justice will try to bring the Committee Stage forward as soon as possible, albeit with the proper scrutiny that is necessary for the different clauses. <BR /> <BR />It is unfortunate and very sad to say that domestic abuse and gender-based violence and abuse remain rife in our society. Again, figures given earlier showed that there were 31,000 incidents of domestic abuse in a one-year period in the North. Clearly, more needs to be done before and during this and after, hopefully, we can get the legislation through. <BR /> <BR />Reporting domestic abuse has increased but it is still an underreported crime.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an reachtaíocht seo. I thank the Minister for bringing this important legislation to the Assembly. The essence of the debate is that there will be some repetition, and I apologise for that, but the legislation is vital and cross-party support can be seen for the general provisions of the Bill, particularly on the outlawing of coercive control. We have had many examples of what coercive control means, and there are many more as it is that type of concept. <BR /> <BR />I also hope that that can be reflected with an attitude of urgency to get the legislation in place.”
“I thank the Minister for answering that, instead of me. <BR /> <BR />I appreciate that the Minister has to take all the evidence into account, but when will the decision be forthcoming? Has the Minister some notion of when that might be? This has been an ongoing and very controversial issue over a series of months and, indeed, years. Will she take into consideration the reports that have been made already? The issue was in front of previous Ministers, so there is a volume of information, not just what might look like new information; some of the older information is very important.”
“As a member of the Policing Board, I can say that the policing with the community branch is central to there being confidence in policing, and the commitment to increasing neighbourhood teams is fundamental to that. I urge Members to support the motion and the amendment.”
“<BR /> <BR />Another key recommendation was the introduction of measures to improve the effectiveness of the justice system. Those are aimed at increasing the pace at which the justice system works, with a view to building public confidence and support, especially in communities that have become disengaged from the criminal justice agencies. All those things are connected. <BR /> <BR />To conclude, if we are really intent on wanting to tackle effectively and degrade seriously those major criminal gangs, the twin-track approach outlined above is essential to achieving our shared objectives. They are not mutually exclusive in any way. I note that the Chief Constable, commenting on the publication of 'New Decade, New Approach', welcomed commitments pertaining to those points.”
“A policing and criminal justice response is essential, so I agree with you entirely on that, but, in isolation from an accompanying community empowerment response, it cannot deliver the required outcome that everyone in the House and outside it wants. <BR /> <BR />The IRC's second report also contained a number of other key recommendations: a greater emphasis to be placed on the correct use of civil recovery powers, and, as has been mentioned a number of times, that would also involve unexplained wealth orders being introduced; and an increased provision of dedicated neighbourhood policing teams, which should be fully resourced. Again, information that tries to deal with that is, at the base of policing, community empowerment and community policing.”
“I thank you for that, and I do not necessarily disagree. Of course individuals are responsible for what they do, but you cannot ignore the underlying socio-economic issues in communities. You have to take a holistic view, and if you want to draw people away from criminal activity, you need, as other Members have said, a full-government approach. I will talk about that in a moment. <BR /> <BR />The issues are complex and are ingrained in the fabric of those communities. We require a new, dedicated outcome in the Programme for Government as the best way of achieving the whole-of-the-system approach that is so essential for the success of the project.”
“The Independent Reporting Commission (IRC) was established by both Governments to report annually on progress made, especially on the implementation of the relevant measures from the three Administrations. The IRC's second report was published in November last year, and it outlined the imperative of a:”
“Of those 18 attacks, eight occurred in Derry and Strabane and eight in Belfast. There were also 67 recorded casualties of assault by various organisations. Five of those attacks were on people under the age of 18. There were also 15 bombing incidents and 39 shooting incidents. There were 147 arrests, which resulted in 18 people being charged. I add to that the fact that threats have been made to a number of political representatives. Threats are made against community workers on an ongoing basis and, indeed, wide-ranging threats to Sinn Féin members.”
“I am the one speaking here. <BR /> <BR />The Fresh Start Agreement was published by the Executive and the British and Irish Governments in November 2015. It included commitments to tackle paramilitaries and organised crime. The Executive action plan was published in July 2016 and contained 43 recommendations. The action plan was predicated on the need for a law enforcement response to the criminal gangs and their activities but, importantly, in tandem with a systemic, sustained and collaborative response to tackling the underlying issues of a socio-economic nature that are endemic in the areas in which those gangs mostly operate. <BR /> <BR />Doug Beattie went through a number of statistics. In 2019, the recorded statistics of paramilitary groups were that there were two deaths from shooting and 18 casualties of shooting.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as an rún. I thank the Members for bringing this important motion for debate. I will speak in favour of the motion and the amendment; I see that that is where all the other parties are at. I should also declare that I am a member of the Policing Board.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will the Member state clearly, then, that he and his party are for objective need when it comes to building houses? In there lies the difficulty that we have had in equality in housing for years.”
“I listened to the Minister's answer, and, while he agrees that there are variations in different areas and in different hospitals, will he, as a Minister, do anything or, at least, enquire into how you bring the variations down so that, if we cannot do away with the charge, there is a fair price for everyone who uses the car parks?”
“Will the Minister give us some assurance that the dormant accounts will be used for the sustainability of social enterprises?”
“Will you go into some detail as to the process of recruitment for the new Attorney General?”
“Like us all, the Minister will know that agreements are one thing and implementation is an entirely different proposition. I hope that the First Minister and deputy First Minister will bring regular reports about implementation and the timescales that she mentioned in her answer.”
“It gives you a structure on which to build, but if you do not have the political will, all those will fall. You can put it to the people, and you can have another agreement, but if there is not the political will, then it will fall. I will finish with this: with political unionists, the question is whether they will eventually step up to the plate.”
“To have a properly functioning, power-sharing Executive and Assembly, there needs to be a belief in, as well as a commitment to, mutual respect, equality and parity of esteem. Let me say again that, whether you are talking about legislation or agreements, while you can get the best agreements in the world and the best type of equality legislation in the world, it is not enough.”
“As many as one in five people has a disability, and people with a disability are twice as likely to be unemployed; one in three children here lives in poverty; a third of those who are economically inactive have no qualifications; sectarian and racist attacks still happen all too frequently; and homophobic attitudes and hate crime remain part of our experience. And, of course, the gender pay gap continues. Yet, despite those difficulties, the will to change is already out there, and it is in our communities. That, unfortunately, is not reflected in political unionism. <BR /> <BR />A survey carried out by the Equality Commission found that 91% of people in the North support equality laws. So, my view is that it is time for a step change, and the Good Friday Agreement is fundamental to that.”
“The people have spoken and said that it should be every seven years, but that aside. <BR /> <BR />The core problem that we face now is not in the agreements reached through negotiations but the obstacles that have continually been put in place in the implementation of important aspects of the agreements — not only the Good Friday Agreement — by unionists and the British Government. Those issues include an Irish language Act — Acht na Gaeilge — an all-Ireland charter of rights, the single equality Act, the Maze/Long Kesh peace centre and, more recently, the legacy of the past structures. <BR /> <BR />This is still a society of many inequalities and great divisions.”
“<BR /> <BR />In 1998, as Members who spoke previously said, through a process of dual referenda, the Good Friday Agreement was democratically endorsed by an overwhelming majority of voters. So, while the Green Party talks about a new agreement and about the people having their say, the people, North and South, have already spoken on this. That was a hugely important moment in our shared history. The agreement envisaged a bill of rights particular to the circumstances of the North. The clear import of that was to have a maximum approach to rights protection.”
“They ask us to reach out to our fellow citizens in a spirit of tolerance, yes, but also with a measure of acceptance of the cultural, political and religious differences that exist between us; acceptance of different sexual orientation and gender identification and different family formations and life choices; and acceptance of racial and ethnic differences and so much more. <BR /> <BR />However, what none of us should ever accept is the idea that those differences can ever justify inequality and disrespect. We collectively need to give full effect to the Good Friday Agreement provisions, including the establishment of a single equality Act, a bill of rights for the North of Ireland, and the creation of an all-Ireland charter of rights.”
“For me, that is what the Good Friday Agreement is all about: mutual respect, equality and parity of esteem are the core principles of the Good Friday Agreement. They are fundamental principles that should inform not only our day-to-day interactions and decision-making but, if embraced with confidence and commitment, can lead us all out of the mire of past antagonisms and perhaps into a better shared future. It is worth remembering, however, certainly at least by way of context, that, for almost 80 years, despite what Christopher Stalford says, nationalists living in the North had to endure unionist and British political domination and endemic discrimination in a deeply unequal society. So, mutual respect, equality and parity of esteem — that handful of words — mean such an awful lot. They also, I suppose, ask a lot of us.”
“I wish you all the best as well. <BR /> <BR />I will begin by repeating something that Martin McGuinness said a few days ago:”
“The people involved are most likely the same people who have attacked their own community, and killed and maimed in that community in the not so distant past in the last number of months. There is a duty on everyone and anyone who has any information that could lead to the apprehension of those involved to bring that forward immediately. I hope that the young man makes a full recovery and that these people know that they should get off the backs of the local community and the overall society to which we belong.”
“I join, I presume, all other Members in the Assembly, as an elected representative for North Belfast, personally and on behalf of Sinn Féin, in hoping that this young police officer — I understand that he was very young and was a probationer in his early 20s — recovers fully from his wounds. We could easily have been talking about a death today and a family suffering that death instead of, hopefully, the recovery that we will see. As Members said, other people could have been killed or maimed in the open forecourt of a garage. Let me condemn it, absolutely and outright. Let me also say that, as a representative for the area — all representatives for the area will be of one voice on this — the people who vote for us, right across the board, are absolutely opposed to the people involved in this.”
“Just to be very clear: at no time have I argued against anything mentioned here, although it is the first time that I have seen £10 million per annum allocated in perpetuity for anything. I am not arguing against what is here. What I am arguing for is that the same treatment be given to other people, particularly those who, in our conflict, have gone through similar experiences to those outlined by Andy Allen and others. I understand absolutely that people have suffered. What I am arguing very clearly is that it cannot be specific to or given to the British armed forces above others. That is what the argument is here. In the second principle, which Andy Allen mentioned a few times, it says that.”
“We need to break the logjam of legacy for victims and survivors, and the British Government and political unionism can do that. Sinn Féin will oppose the motion on the basis of equality of treatment, which everyone should have access to, and objective need.”
“They will not agree to the funding of the Lord Chief Justice's approach to coronial courts and inquests that, since we are talking about bereaved families, would bring some closure or, if not closure, alleviation of their pain. Some of them have waited for over 45 years. Coming on to the Eames/Bradley project, I remember that, when £12,000 was mentioned, not for compensation but for recognition of the suffering that victims had gone through, political unionism and the British Government took a fit at the idea that they would hand out any money at all for that. <BR /> <BR />There is a duty that includes combatants — I absolutely accept that — but it is much wider. It is a duty to all those who have suffered — civilian or soldier, combatant or non-combatant.”
“I have already given way. <BR /> <BR />Tens of thousands have been killed in recent years; hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, have been injured; and, certainly, millions have faced huge poverty. We have only to turn on our TVs to see the refugee problem that we have. In my view, it has destabilised the area. <BR /> <BR />All of this, as you said, may not be the relevant issue. However, young men and women were sent out as soldiers and were killed. Many have sustained life-changing injuries. The Sinn Féin position is as described earlier: there are bereaved and injured from the conflict that occurred here in the North of Ireland. Unionists, if I may say this, cannot and will not agree to a pension for a small number of people relative to other conflicts — a matter of hundreds — who want to have a pension.”
“However, it will not be a surprise to the House that I do not agree with the interventions of the British Government — in fairness to him, Mr Beattie said that there was bad and good in it — and certainly not with many of the interventions that they have been involved in in recent history and ancient history in terms of foreign wars. He mentioned Iraq: remember that people were sent to war on the basis of weapons of mass destruction that did not exist. I agree with Mr Beattie that this is not an issue around the soldiers who went out and fought; it is an issue around government.”
“I agree on this: I have risen to speak on both issues — equality of treatment and objective need. They are complementary, rather than opposing. <BR /> <BR />In the covenant fund, there is £170 million from 2011. The document goes through a list of how that is used in different packages. In 2013, the British Chancellor announced that £10 million per annum would be allocated in perpetuity from the financial year 2015-16. People may think that that is good work or that it is not enough money and all that; that is a debate that, I am sure, Doug Beattie and others will continue. I understand where they are coming from — in particular, Brenda Hale.”
“And there, we start to move away from the ideas of equality and equal treatment. There is a covenant fund, which is dealt with further down, and it says that £170 million —”
“I cannot find myself disagreeing with that either. Of course they have the right to all the services that are there for every citizen. However, it does go on to say:”
“As a republican, I do not find anything wrong with that. The British Government do have a moral obligation. It goes on to say:”
“Of course, the "nation" referred to is Britain, and the "government" referred to is the British Government. It continues:”
“I listened to Doug Beattie and what he had to say, and I will be able to cover that. I approach, and Sinn Féin approaches, this from the point of view of objective need and equality of treatment. I have the Research and Information Service information pack that explains what the Armed Forces Covenant is about, and it is worth reading out the first couple of pieces of it. It says:”
“On a point of order, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as a fhreagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Member for his answers up to now. He gave a pretty comprehensive answer, but I suppose that the question that most people ask, because it is obvious that the gender balance is not a good one, is this: what are the targets, or are there any targets, in the action plan and how will they be monitored?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as an fhreagra sin. I thank the Minister for his answer. I appreciate that he will look at underachievement, but will he be a bit more specific about how the report will focus him and his Department on the issue?”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagra go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for his answers so far. I welcome the decision that has been made to make progress on this very important project. Bearing in mind what he said about funding, I hope that the Minister will agree that there is an opportunity to consult further with the residents in the area, who are most affected by the project. They have some concerns about the plans that they have seen. I do not think that it would be a big effort to make the adjustments necessary so that the project goes ahead with less impact on the local residents.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagraí go dtí seo. I thank the Minister for her answer up to now. Notwithstanding what she said about stress in the job, if it is a part of the job, will she elaborate on her strategy, and does she have targets for bringing down sickness absence?”