Liz Kimmins
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I do not know how it will have affected North Antrim specifically unless the Member is referring to something in particular. We all have a responsibility in climate change and what we do to try to mitigate its impacts.”
“As the Member rightly said, removal of the zero-detriment policy is for the AERA Minister, and I have engaged with the Minister on that, as well as on the removal of the statement of regulatory principles and intent. I recognise that removing that would have detrimental impact on future development.”
“In response, we recently developed and introduced new appraisal guidance, which represents a significant and deliberate shift in approach. Under the previous arrangements, schemes were largely determined by a monetised cost-benefit ratio threshold where, typically, projects that fell below a ratio of one did not progress.”
“A number of significant issues have led to that scenario. I assume that the Member is referring to waste water capacity. I have said that NI Water has suggested that it needs between £3·5 billion to £3·6 billion for the next price control period.”
“Recruitment is a key challenge faced by all Departments. In questions to the Minister of Health, my colleague from Newry and Armagh referred to the recruitment issue that recently impacted on Daisy Hill. The challenge is not unique to DFI. I want to put a focus on ensuring that we build our internal capacity and improve staffing levels.”
“The Executive and the Assembly agree that the Executive's Budget is not adequate, which is why we are in that negotiation. When it comes to the capital budget, we have to factor in a timeline for the legal challenge that we are going through. It is unlikely that we will get a decision from the court on this side of the summer recess.”
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“I do not know how many times I have to outline the work that I am doing. We have repeatedly pointed to the approach that the Department has taken to the developer contributions consultation, the sustainable drainage systems (SuDS) Bill and our work with Executive colleagues. This piece of work has helped us to look at other areas for potential improvement, and I am keen to work with NI Water in doing that. If the Member or his party think that they have other solutions that we have missed, please point to them, because I have not heard of any other thing that has been identified as a solution. We are working very hard to find ways to live within the budget that I have to ensure that we can get the investment that is needed for NI Water.”
“I welcome that and am keen to build on it in the future. I will continue to have regular discussions with the chair of NI Water to identify opportunities for improvement in the way in which the budget is managed going forward. The report also points to further work, which I will take time to consider over the weeks ahead. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I very much hope that the outcome of the report will help us to continue to move forward in partnership. These are difficult times for all of us, particularly Ministers, and we must ensure that we do the best that we can with the resources that are available.”
“<BR /> <BR />I reassure Members that, now that I have an understanding of the issues that have led to the overspend, I am intent on working closely with NI Water to help prevent such an occurrence in future years. I am determined that the learning from this investigation will be useful for both parties, but it is essential that NI Water, like every other ALB, takes every opportunity, where it can, to live within its budget. The board needs to factor in affordability to all its decisions, alongside careful financial profiling, just as the Department and other public bodies have to do. Looking ahead, as I have said, I want to work closely with NI Water to ensure that we deliver services that the public need in line with the budget available. In recent weeks, there have been a number of opportunities for working more closely together.”
“PwC's financial analysis of the top five suppliers suggests that certain costs incurred were, arguably, optional, and NI Water could have chosen to not incur the cost. That suggests that there is room for additional cost savings, even if the saving is small and will not immediately close any budget gap that exists. That is a further example of how spend could have been controlled better. <BR /> <BR />Thirdly, the report states that the pay award could have been better managed. For example, as highlighted above, if NI Water had negotiated savings, it could have planned better and made the necessary pay award within its allocated budget.”
“Going forward, it is clearly essential for NI Water to consider recalibrating its costs to take account of fluctuations throughout the financial year, rather than relying on, as PwC has put it, "the passage of time". Furthermore, NI Water, like any other arm's-length body (ALB), must shape its services to live within the budget available. As Members will agree, that is not a unique concept in the public sector, as all other ALBs are expected to ground their budgets in reality. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, the report points to the need to work closely with suppliers to make savings. For example, if NI Water had been able to negotiate even an illustrative 5% savings in other costs, including goods and services procured through suppliers, that would have, coincidentally, almost equalled the amount of the overspend.”
“<BR /> <BR />First, the report points to overestimations of need at the start of the year, based upon eventualities that did not materialise. The scale of the overestimation meant that what NI Water thought that it needed at the start of the year was considerably higher than what was required. Indeed, the report indicates that that pattern of overestimating need has persisted for each of the past three years. What that has meant is that, in 2024-25, there was a £25 million variance between what NI Water said that it needed at the start of the year and its final out-turn — and, as it turns out, a variance of over £80 million across the most recent three-year period.”
“PwC describes that as a "significant limitation". I find it difficult to understand how a board can monitor operating costs when its budget is not aligned to the allocation from the Department. That is clearly a fundamental flaw in oversight and governance processes. <BR /> <BR />Going forward, to avoid future overspend, it is clear that the starting point for budgetary decisions and the monitoring of spend is that they should be based on the amount that has actually been allocated rather than on a higher figure that has not. While I appreciate that NI Water has a large number of variable costs that depend on issues outside its control, the report clearly highlights several issues relating to the fluctuations that could have been better controlled throughout the 2024-25 financial year.”
“It is also worth highlighting the fact that the report highlighted a lot of movement in budget estimates during the last six weeks of the financial year. The potential overspend at NI Water varied from £7 million in February to £3 million at the end of the financial year, which was just a matter of weeks later, and then declined further to £1·4 million after the year-end close. The lack of certainty at that late stage in the financial year clearly shows a need for better budgetary control. What is also clear from the report is that the NI Water board did not base its financial decisions on the budget that it had — in other words, the amount allocated by the Department. Instead, the board based those decisions on the larger amount that it felt was needed, despite not having that money to spend.”
“Put simply, had I not come to the company's aid, it would have overspent.”
“Had I not taken my decision on 27 March to allocate an additional £3 million to NI Water, just four days before the end of the financial year, NI Water would most definitely have incurred such a breach of MPMNI.”
“Whilst I recognise that the budget allocation fell short of what was originally identified as needed, the fact remains that, as an NDPB, NI Water should have prioritised its budget accordingly. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the report, first, I thank PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) for completing its work within a challenging time frame and NI Water for its cooperation during the process. The report is being prepared for publication and will be published on my Department's website in the next few days. I have reviewed its content and am now in a position to share the findings with Members. <BR /> <BR />The report sets out that any direction by the board of NI Water to overspend without the prior agreement of the Department is technically a breach of 'Managing Public Money NI' (MPMNI).”
“and I thank you for the opportunity to address the Assembly. This statement will update the Assembly on the outcome of the forensic accountant's investigation into the reasons why NI Water was unable to live within its resource budget allocation in the 2024-25 financial year. My decision to appoint a forensic accountant in March was taken because protecting public funds is of the utmost importance, particularly in light of the ongoing wider pressures faced not only in my Department but across all public services. My intention remains that any learning from this investigation will be useful for all parties and help to prevent such an occurrence in future. <BR /> <BR />NI Water, as a non-departmental public body (NDPB), is required to live within its budget, just as all NDPBs are required to do.”
“It proposes two main options: option 1, voluntary developer contributions; and option 2, a compulsory developer contribution levy, which would involve the requirement of a financial contribution from developers that would be used on a prioritised-needs basis across the North. Potentially, both options could be taken forward, or one or the other could be taken forward. That will depend on the outcome of the consultation. I will update the House as soon as I am in a position to do so.”
“As I said, the consultation is ongoing. It opened on 21 March 2025 and will close at noon this Friday. I encourage everyone who wishes to make an input to do so before then. Everyone's feedback is valuable to the discussion. We have had numerous debates in the Chamber regarding waste water infrastructure and the solutions to fix it. I am keen to hear from everyone. <BR /> <BR />Once that consultation period ends, my officials will immediately begin analysing the responses that we have received from consultees. That will help to inform my decisions on the next steps. The consultation has been seeking views on whether and how my Department could introduce developer contributions to help fund the necessary improvements for our waste water infrastructure.”
“I thank the Member for the question. In the main, the Fiscal Council report considers how that funding gap can be closed. It is important to put it into perspective. We are talking about a difference of £55 million between the indicative amount that my Department is allocating for capital funding to NI Water, which is £350 million, and the capital funding that NI Water says that it needs to deliver this year, which is £405 million. I continue to look at other practical and innovative ways to address that funding gap. That will include assessing responses to the consultation on developer contributions. I will also continue to work with Executive colleagues for increased funding throughout the year. There are always opportunities, and I continue to lobby strongly, in particular for NI Water.”
“Thank you. The average household rate in the North for 2024-25 was £1,180 per annum, so, if we applied the notional figure of £595 on top of that, the starting point would be an average annual bill of almost £1,800 for households. Again, it would be unfair to add that extra financial burden to households. It is important that we continue to look at the other options that I have outlined on numerous occasions in the House and ensure that, in whatever way we achieve what we need to do, it will not be to the detriment of the ordinary people in all our communities.”
“Sorry, Mr Speaker, it is so hard to concentrate when people are having full conversations here.”
“Yes, that is a pertinent point. I saw the report from the Consumer Council. It reported that food costs account for almost a quarter of households' basic spending, with almost half of young adults surveyed fearing that their food would run out before they had the money to buy more. Again, I think —”
“Others may simply gloss over or fail to mention the reality of what that will mean for household budgets, for parents who are already struggling with childcare costs or for young people who are starting on their career path. It is also important to say that money that is spent on additional bills will not be spent in our local economy, so there could be wide-reaching implications as a result. I am not prepared to do it, and the Fiscal Council report strongly points out that that would be the implication.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I agree that the report from the Fiscal Council is welcome. It confirms what my predecessor and I have said consistently, which is that alternative funding models for NI Water would lead only to the introduction of water charges for householders. For the avoidance of doubt, let me say that I will not introduce water charges. I will not add to the financial burden that many people would face if that were the case. Others may be de facto campaigning for water charges to be imposed on families at a time when the cost of living is soaring, particularly as the events that we have seen in recent days could impact on energy costs.”
“OK. I am not sure where to start with that, but I will say that the land is part-owned by the Department; the Department does not own all of it. When billboards have been erected in the past, the Department has made contact with those who erected them. I am happy to take further questions on that. If you want to write in, we can ask about it specifically. I do not believe that the current billboard is a Sinn Féin one.”
“I wonder whether the Member has moved constituencies and is now representing Newry and Armagh. <BR /> <BR />I have received numerous questions about the billboard. It is a planning matter, so I ask the Member to speak to the local council about it.”
“As I have said before and in response to questions for written answer, due to our budget, we have a more limited service for all the Department's operational duties. That is continually under review, and I continually ask for additional funding to support the Department's work. <BR /> <BR />It is fair to say that I am not satisfied. I do not think that anybody is satisfied. We always want to do more and achieve the highest standard. However, unfortunately, given the financial constraints, that is not always possible. I am sure that his colleague in the Health Ministry would appreciate that and the challenge that that presents. As I have said, where there are particular issues that are leading to road safety concerns, I am happy for those to be sent in to the private office so that we can look at them.”
“I do not know the specific parts of North Down that you are talking about. Last week, I met councillors from Ards and North Down Borough Council to discuss road conditions, and they raised a number of issues. We had a positive discussion about how we can work together to ensure that we address those issues, as is the case across the North. Standing water may occur for a number of reasons in specific areas. Without having assessments or engineering reports, I might not be able to provide a response. If the Member sends in the specifics, I am happy to get responses from the local section office.”
“We will continue to work through that in the time ahead.”
“Absolutely. I would not have made the announcement had I felt that we could not do that. As I said when I made the original statement a number of months ago, what was important for me was that, while we were unable to commit to the full project at that stage due to budgetary constraints, I wanted to ensure that we did as much as we could with the available budget, which has been my approach to other issues that are relevant to my Department. I am keen to see that being delivered, and I am committed to ensuring that it is delivered at the earliest possible stage. If any unforeseen issues arise, we will ensure that we keep elected reps and the community updated, because, as with all major schemes, there is the potential for issues to arise at any stage. Hopefully, that will not be the case.”
“Just give me a second. I have lost my train of thought. <BR /> <BR />As the Member will know, I made an announcement earlier in the year. At this stage, we are engaging with stakeholders and starting the process. I recently met some stakeholders from the Ormeau Road end, as well as Retail NI. We are looking at the next stage and at how it will look in order to ensure that there is proper engagement with all stakeholders and that we learn from what happened in the past. I can give the Member a more detailed response in writing about what else is happening, as I do not have all the details in front of me, Peter. That is the most recent update that I have.”
“As I said, I want to see a solution. We need to act in immediacy, but it is important that we do so very thoroughly. Today's ruling is a detailed decision, the implications of which we do not know at this stage, because we received the judgement less than three hours ago. It would be remiss of me to start saying that I will do this or do that without considering the judgement in great detail. I will engage thoroughly with my legal team and my officials on that, because, as I said, this is the third time that there has been a legal challenge about that road. Families are tired and want to see it built, and that is my priority. After we work our way through the judgement, we will be in a better position to comment.”
“We cannot allow any more lives to be lost, and I am determined to find a solution and a way forward, because lives are too important. I do not want any other family to have to go through what those families have experienced.”
“As I said in my previous response, today is a hugely disappointing day; in fact, it is heartbreaking, particularly for all who have campaigned very strongly and for all the families who have put so much time and effort into doing so, despite dealing with their own grief and loss. They believe that the A5 upgrade is the way to ensure that no other family goes through what they have gone through. That is something on which we all should reflect, because the judge, in giving his judgement today, reflected on how the decision would cause anguish and heartbreak for all those families. <BR /> <BR />As I said, it is a detailed judgement. It will take some time for me, my officials and my legal team to go through the detail of it and see what the implications are and how we chart a way forward. The road needs to be built.”
“It is not a day for point-scoring or anything like that; it is a day to look at what needs to be done to move the scheme forward. <BR /> <BR />The Member may be aware that it is a 99-page ruling, so I will now have to take the time to consider its detail and what its implications will be. Let me say this, however: I am committed to getting the A5 delivered, to protecting lives and to ensuring that no more lives are lost on that road.”
“First, I will say that this has been a very disappointing day. My first thoughts are with all of the families who have lost a loved one and those who have been injured as a result of road traffic collisions along the A5.”
“However, I believe that it will have long-term impacts and will help to improve road safety for all road users, not just for motorists. I look forward to providing further detail as soon as we are at that point. It is a forward step in addressing road safety.”
“As I said, I am deeply concerned about the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads. Sadly, younger drivers, particularly young male drivers, are significantly over-represented in road traffic collision statistics. The aim of graduated driver licensing is to reduce the over-representation of new, mainly young, drivers in fatal and serious road traffic collisions by providing new drivers with driving experiences and skills gradually and in a lower-risk environment. I want graduated driver licensing to be implemented as soon as possible, and my officials are working to accomplish that. It is a major, resource-intensive undertaking, and significant operational planning and preparation is required, including the amendment of current driver training tests and post-test arrangements.”
“— and that will make the difference going forward.”
“I am also keen to explore how we can work better together with our road safety partners and other Departments. As I mentioned earlier, I have written to the Department of Education — to the Minister in the first instance — seeking a meeting to discuss it further to see how we can collaborate. <BR /> <BR />I believe that a multi-agency and cross-departmental approach to tackling the issue is vital. I am keen to work with others to discuss opportunities and agree a structured approach to improving the safety of children, particularly when going to and from school. Whilst all of those measures, I believe, have the potential to deliver significant road safety benefits, we can all take immediate action to improve road safety to ensure that the 2030 target is met. We can all make a collective effort to do so —”
“<BR /> <BR />I would also like to see what can be done to improve attitudes to speeding not only for road safety purposes but to make places cleaner and greener. I have therefore asked my officials to prepare a paper on a number of speed-related matters, including the national speed limit on rural roads, HGV speed limits and 20 mph speed limits in general — I mentioned those in my responses to previous questions — after which I plan to undertake a public consultation exercise on this important issue. Alongside that, I have asked officials to develop a new and forward-looking road safety strategy action plan in partnership with our road safety stakeholders, all of whom work together to reduce the number of people killed or seriously injured in road collisions.”
“As I said earlier, road safety is a major priority for me as Minister. I am committed to considering any initiatives that will improve road safety for everyone. I recently announced an extensive package of road safety measures aimed at safeguarding schoolchildren travelling to and from school, as I mentioned earlier, particularly around using school buses and people overtaking buses. I am also taking forward a number of strategic interventions, including a consultation seeking views on a change to the law surrounding the use of hand-held mobile phones while driving, a review of drink-driving legislation and options to address drug-driving, and I am introducing graduated driver licensing.”
“I offer my best wishes to those residents. Nobody likes to be in that situation, whether it be a security incident or whatever it may be. I cannot imagine how stressful and anxious a time that must be, especially if it has happened on a number of occasions to those residents. <BR /> <BR />As I said, that second access must be delivered by the developer prior to the commencement of any development in excess of the 66 dwellings in that portion of the site. The developer has reached the trigger, but work has temporarily stopped on the site. There are details of that situation that I cannot speak about in the House, as the Member may be aware. I will say, however, that officials are working to ensure that we get to that point.”
“The numbers and types of access for developments are assessed on a site-specific basis as part of the planning process, taking into account site constraints and transportation assessment modelling. The Creating Places supplementary planning guidance is used in the design of all proposals for residential development throughout the North from small-scale infill housing schemes to major projects on large sites incorporating a mix of uses. Neither Creating Places nor local or regional planning policy statements require more than one access to a development. I am informed that the current planning permission for the Mount Carmel development requires the construction of a second access from the site onto the Evish Road.”
“Yes, absolutely. The more we utilise nature-based solutions, the more sustainable it is. As I mentioned, I have introduced the Bill. It is an exciting time, because it shows innovation. So much work has gone into the Bill, and, from speaking to developers and representatives of the construction industry, I know that developers are already using more nature-based solutions in individual housing projects or developments. There are lots of things we can do to ensure that we not only treat the water that needs to be treated but do so in a more cost-effective, efficient and sustainable way.”
“The pilot project's overall target is to provide approximately 10,000 cubic metres of temporary rainwater storage by retrofitting sustainable drainage systems, commonly known as "SuDS", to reduce the pressure on our constrained drainage and waste water infrastructure. Officials are engaging with a range of stakeholders to discuss potential locations for nature-based solutions, focusing on bringing viable projects from concept to delivery within the framework of the transformation fund. The project will initially focus on the Fortwilliam and Whitehouse areas in Belfast. However, interventions outside that area may also be considered where the benefits of nature-based drainage solutions can be demonstrated.”
“I have secured £15 million over the next four years from the public-sector transformation fund to develop and deliver a pilot project that will use nature-based solutions to help transform our urban drainage systems. The aim is to provide a range of nature-based drainage and flood management solutions to demonstrate their effectiveness in managing the flow of water through urban areas, helping to reduce flood risk and pollution. Nature-based drainage solutions are cleaner and greener and can help slow the flow of water entering our sewers, which, in turn, will help to reduce the risk of out-of-sewer flooding.”
“I will continue to work with Executive colleagues in the first instance, but I am also looking at other steps that I can take in the interim to ensure that we continue to move forward until we get to the point where we are dealing with the problem in the most effective and efficient way.”
“I agree. That is the point that I am making. None of us underestimates the fact that it is a really live and significant problem. If I had all the money to do the work, we would not be having this conversation, but the reality is that we do not. Difficult decisions have to be made every day on the budget. That does not mean that we stand still; it means that we have to continue to lobby for the additional funds, wherever they may come from, whether that is through the Executive or from the British Treasury. Ministers around the Executive table all recognise how important this is. Every one of us knows that, in order to move forward on many of the things that the Programme for Government sets out and that many of us as MLAs have prioritised, we need to ensure that our waste water infrastructure is fit for purpose.”
“I hope that reassures Members about how committed we are to this.”
“<BR /> <BR />It was always accepted that additional funding would be required to deliver the living with water plan and, in the New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) agreement, living with water was identified as a beneficiary of increased funding. However, that funding was not received. <BR /> <BR />I remain fully committed to the Belfast plan's objectives to help protect against flooding, enhance the environment and grow the economy. I will continue, as I have been doing to date and as my predecessor did, to make the case for additional funding and expedite its delivery. In the last financial year, I provided NI Water with half a billion pounds in funding.”
“<BR /> <BR />A review of the Belfast living with water plan was commissioned due to a rise in the estimated cost of delivering it from £1·4 billion to £2·1 billion, which, I am sure, the Member will agree, is a significant rise since the plan was announced. The review concluded that the Belfast plan is still needed. However, the original 12-year delivery time frame is no longer viable. Projects in the plan, which include proposals to improve the water quality of Belfast lough, will now be taken forward by my Department and NI Water as normal business at a scale and pace achievable within available budgets rather than through a structured programme. As I have said, I take the approach of seeing what can be done with the budget that we have until such times as more funding is available.”
“I will answer the second part of the question first. I have made my approach clear on numerous occasions, particularly on securing additional investment. At every stage, whether monitoring rounds or whatever it may be, we try to garner more funds to do as much work as we can. It is fair to say that the whole Executive Budget would not cover the work. Even if NI Water had the budget today, it says that it would take a long time to deliver what is needed. We are working through that. My approach to everything in the budget is to break it down and see what we can do well with the budget that we have.”
“In addition to that, NI Water continues its programme of installing event duration monitors to identify the worst-performing discharge points and to help ensure that money is targeted where it is most needed. <BR /> <BR />In a challenging financial context, we are looking at what else we can do to mitigate the situation as much as possible. It is not ideal: I totally take the point that it is unacceptable. We should not see any untreated sewage go into our waterways — that is not where any of us want to be — but, until such times as we have the budget to do the work that is needed, we have to do what we can to alleviate difficulties as best we can, if we cannot fully eliminate them.”