Liz Kimmins
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I do not know how it will have affected North Antrim specifically unless the Member is referring to something in particular. We all have a responsibility in climate change and what we do to try to mitigate its impacts.”
“As the Member rightly said, removal of the zero-detriment policy is for the AERA Minister, and I have engaged with the Minister on that, as well as on the removal of the statement of regulatory principles and intent. I recognise that removing that would have detrimental impact on future development.”
“In response, we recently developed and introduced new appraisal guidance, which represents a significant and deliberate shift in approach. Under the previous arrangements, schemes were largely determined by a monetised cost-benefit ratio threshold where, typically, projects that fell below a ratio of one did not progress.”
“A number of significant issues have led to that scenario. I assume that the Member is referring to waste water capacity. I have said that NI Water has suggested that it needs between £3·5 billion to £3·6 billion for the next price control period.”
“Recruitment is a key challenge faced by all Departments. In questions to the Minister of Health, my colleague from Newry and Armagh referred to the recruitment issue that recently impacted on Daisy Hill. The challenge is not unique to DFI. I want to put a focus on ensuring that we build our internal capacity and improve staffing levels.”
“The Executive and the Assembly agree that the Executive's Budget is not adequate, which is why we are in that negotiation. When it comes to the capital budget, we have to factor in a timeline for the legal challenge that we are going through. It is unlikely that we will get a decision from the court on this side of the summer recess.”
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“There has been progress: for example, during this term, Minister O'Dowd announced a phased rolling out of 100 environmentally sustainable electric buses in a £64 million investment. As part of my continued commitment to sustainability, I propose to commission the purchase of four EV Glider vehicles within the BRT2 project to be tested as a pilot scheme on the heavily utilised east-west G1 route. That will free up four existing Glider vehicles to service the G2 extension. Outworkings of the pilot will be used to determine the practicality of the roll-out of those sustainable vehicles for BRT2, as well as future Glider routes.”
“BRT2 will provide a service to the north and south of our city, bringing the benefits of the current Glider service to our citizens who live along the route. Whilst the full funding for the delivery of the scheme is not available at present, my Department has developed options to maximise the benefits from the available funding in advance of the delivery of the full scheme. In this early phase, I propose to deliver the full G2 extension, providing linkages to Queen's University and the City Hospital, including halts and the provision of Glider vehicles. <BR /> <BR />Most of us recognise that we are living through a climate and biodiversity crisis. In any crisis, action is needed.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the £35 million contribution from the Belfast region city deal and recognise that that significant investment will bring enhancements to the city centre and the wider public transport network as we seek to promote sustainable travel options and improve public transport journey time reliability, as well as providing better connectivity for our citizens. The current east-west Glider service is an excellent example of how my Department can provide accessible, reliable and attractive public transport for all. <BR /> <BR />Post COVID, we have continued to realise increasing passenger numbers, making a positive difference to the removal of cars from the road network as we seek to reduce congestion in our city centre.”
“Therefore, the extension to Glengormley is not feasible at this time, but I will commission further work to determine if a viable option exists in and around the area. <BR /> <BR />A lot of change will be required to meet our net zero by 2050 targets. Therefore, we need to provide attractive and sustainable transport alternatives, such as public transport, walking, wheeling and cycling. Without those, our people, our cities and our towns will choke. People deserve better: a cleaner, greener urban environment in which they can live and thrive. That will transform our towns and villages into more vibrant places where traffic congestion and air quality are less of an issue and streets feel safer and more pleasant for everyone.”
“At the same time, the extension of the existing G2 city centre to Titanic Quarter Glider service to connect with Queen's University and the City Hospital was announced. Considering the funding envelope available for BRT2 and taking account of the outworkings of the feasibility studies, I have concluded that any extension of the Glider service beyond Cairnshill park-and-ride towards Carryduff is not economically viable at this time but will be re-examined when further development along the route is realised. Similarly, the significant congestion in Glengormley, a pending public realm scheme planned for the town, and the limited funding available for the BRT2 scheme make it challenging to extend the service to Glengormley.”
“<BR /> <BR />The BRT2 project is a significant investment in our public transport infrastructure, with the cost of full delivery in the region of £142 million to £148 million. I am pleased that the funding envelope of £35 million from our Belfast region city deal partners will allow my Department to make an early start on this critical public transport project and lay good foundations for future development as we seek to address the funding shortfall and permit delivery of the full BRT2 project. <BR /> <BR />In October 2022, my predecessor, Minister O'Dowd, announced the route along the Antrim Road in the north and the Ormeau Road and Saintfield Road in the south, commissioning work on the feasibility of its extension to Glengormley and Carryduff.”
“for the opportunity to address the Assembly on the way forward for the Belfast Rapid Transit phase 2 project (BRT2). <BR /> <BR />The BRT2 project is one of three projects being taken forward by my Department as part of the Belfast region city deal and formed part of the programme announced in the 2018 autumn Budget statement. The commitment to city and growth deal funding was made on the basis that a returning Executive would provide a matching amount to fund a series of infrastructure, regeneration and tourism projects that would deliver on inclusive economic growth. I was pleased to note that the Executive agreed to provide the match funding necessary to take forward those important and pivotal projects.”
“I am keen to see the delivery of improvements to our waste water infrastructure across the North to facilitate housing growth and economic development as well as helping to improve water quality. I reiterate that the value of our waste water infrastructure cannot be overstated. I will work alongside my Executive colleagues to secure investment to maintain and improve the quality of our waste water infrastructure for the people of the North. I thank Members for the opportunity to speak on the issue.”
“I hope that that gives some confidence that that has not been completely stalled. The plan remains and will be delivered, just in a different format and at a slower pace.”
“NI Water consistently exceeds the required waste water compliance levels across the North, so that will continue to be monitored very closely. <BR /> <BR />I turn to Matthew O'Toole's comments, particularly the issues with planning. Again, we all recognise the issues. I encourage developers, at the pre-application stage, to engage with NI Water to look at what solutions are available in the current context, and, hopefully, as we move through this programme, we will see further solutions being found, because, in many cases, that has happened. We need to continue to work through that and work collaboratively. <BR /> <BR />The programme board for the living with water programme has been stood down, and the individual projects within the programme are being delivered as business as usual.”
“However, I do not think that we can use the excuse that no funding means that nothing can be done, because I do not believe that that is the case. I am committed to doing as much as we can within that budget, because we cannot sit on our hands. The longer we do, the worse this problem will get, so I am committed to ensuring that, working collaboratively with NI Water and Executive partners, we do what we can within that budget. It is critical, and we cannot wait. We recognise that there are significant challenges. If the money were there, we could do so much more, and I will continue to make that case to ensure that we get the investment that is needed. <BR /> <BR />Mr Brooks spoke about water quality, which is the responsibility of DAERA, and I think that the NIEA is NI Water's regulator.”
“On the projects in East Belfast specifically, the upgrade of Belfast and Kinnegar waste water treatment works, the replacement of the pumping station at Sydenham and the removal of eight unsatisfactory intermittent discharges in the Dundonald area will be considered as part of NI Water's prioritisation process for the next price control. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to some of the points that Members made. It is important to note that many of the issues raised could be reflected across many of our constituencies, so we should reflect on the importance of the overall picture in waste water infrastructure. I agree with the Member for East Belfast Ms Bunting that something must be done, and we have been saying that for a long time.”
“It is about looking at everything in the round so that we have the best systems that we can have within our current financial envelope. <BR /> <BR />It was always accepted that additional funding would be required to deliver the plan. In New Decade, New Approach, the living with water programme was identified as a beneficiary of increased funding. However, that was not received. I, however, remain committed to the Belfast plan objectives to help to protect against flooding, to enhance the environment and to grow the economy, and I will continue to make the case for additional funding to expedite their delivery.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I suppose that it means that it will be delivered but over a longer time frame. The board has decided to defer these upgrades until the next price control. However, in 2025, repair work and minor works will be completed. NI Water will continue to undertake that essential maintenance to ensure that the current assets continue to work effectively. That is important, because some of the terminology being used does not reflect how it should pan out in reality. <BR /> <BR />As I said, my Department will continue to identify and develop blue-green sustainable drainage projects in the Belfast plan area alongside delivery partners, including NI Water. Whilst I appreciate that blue-green infrastructure is not a silver bullet, it is critical in building the resilience of our water network going forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important to make that point by way of response to some of the concerns that have been raised today. The plan has not been shelved or mothballed, to use the terminology that has been used.”
“An anticipated £700 million increase, however, in the estimated cost of the upgrades needed to NI Water's sewerage network and waste water treatment works within the first two years alone has seen the overall costs of the plan increase to over £2·1 billion. An affordability review that my Department carried out in response to that increase concluded that the Belfast plan still needs to be delivered but that the original 12-year time frame for its delivery is no longer viable because of the increased cost. NI Water projects in the plan will now be taken forward by the company as normal business through the price control process at a scale and pace that is achievable within available budgets, rather than through a structured programme.”
“<BR /> <BR />Finally, I will speak about 'Living With Water in Belfast', the plan that was initially published on 9 November 2021, following Executive endorsement. The plan aims to address the increasing demands on the city's drainage and waste water network that are caused by population growth, alongside the more frequent extreme weather events resulting from climate change. <BR /> <BR />The plan estimated that £1·4 billion of investment would be required over 12 years to deliver it, with the majority of that required for upgrades to NI Water's infrastructure and around £200 million identified for blue-green drainage infrastructure.”
“As my predecessor advised in the Assembly on 8 April last year, however, mutualising NI Water would require a significant change to be made to its governance structures, as well as the introduction of domestic charging in order to provide a separate revenue stream outside of government control or responsibility. <BR /> <BR />A mutualised company cannot be created when it is reliant on the extent of government subsidy that my Department currently provides. Furthermore, the recent experience of water companies in England and Wales has demonstrated that privatised and mutualised water companies do not necessarily provide the better levels of services that people expect. Indeed, having mutualised companies can lead to higher levels of company debt and subsequent increases in costs.”
“I am delighted to announce that my officials are working collaboratively with colleagues in DAERA and DFC to contribute to the aims and objectives of the Executive's housing supply strategy. That demonstrates that, despite the challenging public expenditure context, my Department is continuing to work hard to deliver positive change by improving our water and waste water infrastructure. <BR /> <BR />Members have previously pointed to the governance model and highlighted alternative approaches. My Department has reviewed water utility company structures across Britain and Ireland for best practice, including mutualisation, in which the Member will be interested, given that the Alliance Party recently published its own policy proposals on the funding and form of NI Water. It has proposed mutualisation as being one possible structure.”
“That will include working with Executive colleagues to increase waste water investment and exploring options for developer contributions. I know that Mr O'Toole asked questions about the consultation document, but I hope to see it launched in March. I will introduce the water, flooding and sustainable drainage Bill in the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />During this financial year, NI Water has been allocated a budget of almost £0·5 billion, which is just under 40% of the total non-ring-fenced budget available for my entire Department. In the October monitoring round, NI Water received £32 million, £19·5 million of which has been used successfully to unlock capacity for 2,300 properties across Antrim, Derry and Tyrone. I plan to continue to have a focus on unlocking capacity.”
“It should be noted, however, that my Department fully funded NI Water for the first three years of the price control period. In fact, it provided almost £93 million of additional capital funding, which is over and above the funding level that the Utility Regulator recommended for the same period. It is useful also to note that the housebuilding industry itself has advised that housebuilding is at the highest level that it has been at in 15 years. Although I recognise that we have so much work to do, it is important to mention that point. <BR /> <BR />Improving our waste water infrastructure will be a huge exercise, costing billions and taking decades to achieve, but I will continue to build on the previous Minister's three-pronged approach.”
“The situation is creating significant challenges for our ability to make improvements to waste water infrastructure, deliver housing growth, support economic development and improve water quality at the pace that we all would like to see.”
“We all recognise that there is a need for additional funding, and, with my Executive colleagues, I will continue to make that case.”
“<BR /> <BR />Even in my short time in post, I have met — just yesterday — the chair and chief executive of NI Water to discuss these very issues, because I recognise the seriousness of the problem that we are dealing with. I look forward to working with NI Water. I acknowledge the significant financial challenges that NI Water operates under. It is important to emphasise, however, that it must work within the budget, and that requires prioritisation. That is not to approach issues with the blanket response that finances are always to blame. I am an eternal optimist, so I believe that there are lots of things that we can and should look at to find solutions. <BR /> <BR />My Department, like others, has been operating in a difficult financial environment due to 14 years of the British Government's chronic underfunding and austerity.”
“First, I thank Mr McReynolds for securing the debate, which has been helpful in highlighting the importance of waste water infrastructure to our society. It strikes me that we do not always realise, until there is an issue, how critical it is, and that is across the board, so I really appreciate the opportunity to respond to the debate. I have listened intently to Members' comments and the issues that they have raised, and I have heard their concerns, particularly about waste water infrastructure in East Belfast and the need for further investment and improvements. As a former member of the Infrastructure Committee, I have highlighted the issues as they relate to my constituency in particular.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Despite what others may say, it is very clear that Health has been prioritised at every opportunity. Can the Minister describe how it will be prioritised in this draft Budget, particularly given that that will lead to other Departments not getting what they want?”
“I really welcome the commitment to the real living wage. It will go some way to tackling the issue. Minister, in relation to that, as you have said yourself, we are aware that social care is key to unlocking some of the significant pressures on our hospitals. I have been speaking to some providers, and there are solutions that can be looked at. Has the Minister looked at potentially ring-fencing funds around rural packages? That would help to tackle some of the real challenges in getting care packages for people living in more rural areas that are harder to reach and are not as attractive for domiciliary care providers, given the huge travel times and difficulties accessing those locations.”
“Will the Minister commit to ensuring that road safety will not be negatively impacted on by biennial MOT tests, should they be introduced?”
“I understand the budgetary pressures that the Minister outlined. Funding the mental health strategy is critical, and I know that the Minister, as a champion of mental health, will do all that he can to ensure that we achieve what is needed. I hope that we can continue to work together across the Assembly, the Department of Health and all Departments to really tackle this issue, reduce the stigma and improve the lives of people across the North.”
“Absolutely, and I thank the Minister for his intervention. The Health and Justice Committees had a joint briefing on that important policy. However, we need to ensure that the resources are in place for that to be delivered properly. Concerns have been raised about who will do that, and that will be a job of work. <BR /> <BR />I think that we are all in agreement that this is an issue that must be addressed. It is important to tackle the chronic issues that many people are facing. As some Members said, we are in a post-conflict society, which, I believe, has led to the high number of cases of mental ill health that we see. That is why there is a greater need for us to tackle that head-on and ensure that we are doing everything that we can. There is a responsibility on us all.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention, and I agree absolutely. That goes back to my original point about people who have been arrested or are in custody or on remand. A lot of the reasons behind what is happening are to do with a lack of understanding about what people may be dealing with when it comes to mental health. If those people could get the right support at the right time, things could change for them.”
“The Well, which is in the Ballymartin/Kilkeel area, is one example of how a community came together following a number of incidents of suicide to form an organisation that is run completely by fundraising but that, I have no doubt, has saved many lives. That was born out of a number of suicides of young males in that area, and the community knew that it had to do something.”
“<BR /> <BR />The debate has crystallised the Assembly's willingness to work together not only to dispel the myths around mental illness but to reduce stigma and support people in seeking help and in talking about the issues. We talked about the various elements in all our lives that can trigger mental ill health and how the things that we take for granted will not have that impact. We talked about antenatal and postnatal health and the menopause. We also talked about the impact on males. A lot of the debate has focused on the huge role of the community and voluntary sector in addressing mental illness and suicide prevention.”
“However, I think that our young people are very in tune with mental health, and that is a testament to the huge amount of work that has been going on for so many years to normalise those conversations. A culture of change is definitely happening at school age, because it is normal to have those conversations and to talk about your mental health and your feelings from a very early age. Some of the things that my children, who are of playschool age, say when they come home show me that change is really happening in that people are able to talk about their feelings. The fact that that is being done in an age-appropriate way that helps children means that it is something that they can carry through. Work is happening, and things such as the Healthy Happy Minds funding and all those initiatives can also play a huge part.”
“When we look at the experiences of young men in particular in the justice system, whether they are in custody or on remand, we see that issues can arise because of the stigma around mental health. If they are not getting the right support, that can lead to reoffending and other issues. We really have an opportunity here to try to reduce that stigma so that those people can get that support, whether it is in a facility such as a prison or other community facilities. That could be the catalyst for making the changes in their life in many other ways. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to raising greater awareness, we also have the early intervention piece. We have a real opportunity to ensure that our schools and third-level colleges etc play their part as well.”
“<BR /> <BR />The importance of raising awareness and talking has been critical to the conversation. I thank the Minister for sharing his personal experiences. I know, Minister, that you have talked about your wife on many occasions and how she has used her experiences to advocate for others. It is so important that people do that, and we have had service users here today who are advocating on behalf of all the many other people who are experiencing mental ill health so that we can make the changes that are needed. We have to move forward. We have talked a lot about raising awareness, and that includes education, but this is a real cross-cutting issue. <BR /> <BR />Robbie Butler talked about the Prison Service and his experience with it.”
“I know, even in generations of my family, about the stigma that surrounds someone in the family who has mental ill health, and I am talking about decades ago. Throughout our family, we were always very much aware of someone who, in times gone by, had probably been hidden away or institutionalised. In today's society, they may not need that form of treatment and might be able to get the right support in the community and have the opportunity to thrive, be part of the community and lead the life that they wish to lead. There are so many sad stories from our past, and some of those things are, to an extent, probably still happening. However, there has definitely been a real shift towards better understanding and a real willingness to try to reach out and help people where we can.”
“We recognised very strongly today that stigma leads to discrimination and social isolation and a real reluctance to seek help or treatment. As others have said, that leads to further problems when a crisis develops. Stigmatised beliefs about mental illness can prevent individuals from getting treatment. As I said, that leads not just to their problems worsening but to the care that they need escalating. We talked earlier about the acute pressures on our hospitals. If we are able to get this right at the earliest possible stage, it can lead to a reduction in pressure elsewhere and better outcomes, which are key to all of this. <BR /> <BR />Many Members talked about the historical connotations and how our parents and grandparents potentially talked about people with mental ill health. We have lots of examples.”
“I too thank the proposer of the motion, my colleague Órlaithí Flynn. As others said, Órlaithí is passionate about the topic. Her contribution demonstrated her passion so clearly, and she led us to challenge ourselves in how we talk about mental health. Órlaithí and one of the other Members talked about how we often say things and use connotations and language that we do not generally even mean to be harmful, but that in itself is symptomatic of some of the issues that impact on people who have mental ill health and the stigma that they feel. <BR /> <BR />The debate was excellent. We are all agreed that reducing the stigma around mental health and mental illness is absolutely crucial for improving access to care so that people feel comfortable to take that step and get the support that they need when they need it.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle.”
“It is abundantly clear that enhanced services for mental health are required, with staff trained in specialist areas of neurodivergence. I look forward to hearing more about the work of the Minister and his Department to ensure that we all work to achieve that. Otherwise, we are all failing — we are failing all the children, adults and young people who continue to suffer alone.”
“However, waiting for four or five years to be seen only to be told that they cannot help must be soul-destroying for any parent, and not least for the child at the heart of it. However, I must acknowledge the fantastic work that is being done by community and voluntary sector organisations, including Bolster Community and Crisis Café in my constituency, that have stepped in to deliver bespoke services in an effort to address the gaps in service provision for children and young people with autism. I know that that has transformed the lives of many. <BR /> <BR />Not everyone is lucky enough to have access to services such as those delivered in Newry. Access to mental health support should not be a postcode lottery; it should be a statutory provision, so, I welcome the progress that the Minister outlined.”
“The value of having appropriate mental health support in place cannot be overstated, and that applies to all individuals who are dealing with mental health. For people with autism, however, that is essential to support their emotional well-being and help them to thrive in every aspect of their lives. One lady told us that her son had been suffering with crippling anxiety to the point that he could not leave home without being physically sick. She said that when he was referred to the mental health team, they did not know what to do with him because he had a diagnosis of autism. <BR /> <BR />The colossal waiting lists for many CAMHS services indicate the huge demand for mental health support for children and young people, which, in itself, is extremely difficult for parents and children to deal with.”
“<BR /> <BR />The motion seeks to emphasise the key issues that are impacting on autistic people who are unable to access the crucial mental health support that they need. In recent days, we have heard about the lived experiences of hundreds of individuals and families who are struggling to obtain mental health support for themselves or their child or family member with autism. Many have waited for years for an appointment with services such as CAMHS, and when they finally get it, they are told that their child's mental health needs are a result of their autism. <BR /> <BR />As Members stated repeatedly during the debate, people with autism are at significantly greater risk of mental illness, yet we do not have the necessary supports in place to help them and, indeed, their families and carers when they need it.”
“I support the motion, and I thank all Members and the Minister for their contributions. As others said, it is really refreshing to hear the united support for this very important motion. It is also important to highlight the fact that, whilst the motion emphasises the need for specialist mental health services for people with autism, there have been some concerns that we are focused only on that. However, as laid out in the mental health strategy, there is a need for specialist mental health services for people with physical and sensory disabilities and those with intellectual disabilities. They, too, deserve access to mental health support to meet their individual needs.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“I therefore ask the Minister that his officials support us in progressing future legislation by providing the full information that the Committee requires in a timely way. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Health Committee looks forward to the regulations' implementation, as we view them as being an important measure for addressing issues to do with period dignity and period poverty. I am happy to confirm that the Health Committee agreed to recommend that the draft Period Products (Department of Health <BR />Specified Public Service Bodies) Regulations be approved and made by the Assembly.”
“Despite its best efforts to elicit from the Department the information that the Committee needed in order to understand the impact and implications of the regulations, it took five months before it was provided with that information, including an estimate of the costs and the operational date. The Committee understands that it has been difficult for the Department to provide some of the information that we requested, as the primary responsibility for delivery lies with the trusts. The Committee would, however, not be undertaking its proper scrutiny role were it not to persist in seeking the clarity that it required. <BR /> <BR />The Health Committee is committed to working in cooperation with the Department.”
“The Department advised the Committee of estimated costs of between £200,000 and £300,000 a trust a year, which equates to between £1 million and £1·5 million annually in total. The Department also advised the Committee that no additional funding was available for compliance with the regulations and that the trusts would need to fund the costs from within existing budgets as part of normal operational costs. The Committee notes that the Department will have a better understanding of demand and the cost of operation. It looks forward to receiving an update on the actual cost of delivery when the figures become available. <BR /> <BR />It would be remiss of me not to point out the Committee's disappointment at how long it has taken to progress the regulations.”