Liz Kimmins
Newry and Armagh · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I do not know how it will have affected North Antrim specifically unless the Member is referring to something in particular. We all have a responsibility in climate change and what we do to try to mitigate its impacts.”
“As the Member rightly said, removal of the zero-detriment policy is for the AERA Minister, and I have engaged with the Minister on that, as well as on the removal of the statement of regulatory principles and intent. I recognise that removing that would have detrimental impact on future development.”
“In response, we recently developed and introduced new appraisal guidance, which represents a significant and deliberate shift in approach. Under the previous arrangements, schemes were largely determined by a monetised cost-benefit ratio threshold where, typically, projects that fell below a ratio of one did not progress.”
“A number of significant issues have led to that scenario. I assume that the Member is referring to waste water capacity. I have said that NI Water has suggested that it needs between £3·5 billion to £3·6 billion for the next price control period.”
“Recruitment is a key challenge faced by all Departments. In questions to the Minister of Health, my colleague from Newry and Armagh referred to the recruitment issue that recently impacted on Daisy Hill. The challenge is not unique to DFI. I want to put a focus on ensuring that we build our internal capacity and improve staffing levels.”
“The Executive and the Assembly agree that the Executive's Budget is not adequate, which is why we are in that negotiation. When it comes to the capital budget, we have to factor in a timeline for the legal challenge that we are going through. It is unlikely that we will get a decision from the court on this side of the summer recess.”
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“It is true that everybody wants to see the scheme, but we need to ensure that it is done right. While everybody will have heard some of the views and will have asked what the barriers to progression could possibly be, the Department has been having some of those engagements. <BR />We mentioned earlier the informal consultation that happened last March, as part of which we received nine responses, which raised some issues. Members have mentioned issues about deliveries and loading times and things like that, but one of the key things for me that came out of the consultation with some of the stakeholders in the area was the number of visitors with disabilities and the problems that could pertain in terms of access to specific venues in the area. Those are really critical issues that we need to address.”
“A headline that says, "Austerity is preventing £5,000 signage implementation" is attractive, but it is not the case. <BR /> <BR />I think that we all recognise that progress has been slow. John O'Dowd and I indicated that we wanted to see the scheme being progressed. The staff working in that area were taken away to work on other issues because we had a busy winter, as many of the representatives for Belfast will be aware, due to the works at Grand Central Station and the traffic congestion issues that Belfast city centre has seen. However, I have now asked for staff to be redirected so that we can deliver this important project. <BR /> <BR />I go back the point on consultation and engagement. It has been mentioned that everybody wants to see the scheme, and questions about the delays have been asked.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome the opportunity to further confirm that commitment that work will start imminently, because it has not been made clear and has been misconstrued in recent weeks. I come back to the point that I have made in response to prior questions about austerity. It was made clear that the cost of the signage, which was estimated at around £5,000, was not the blockage. My colleague Gerry Kelly pointed that out. The blockage to the scheme's progressing at the speed that my predecessor, John O'Dowd, who was in post last year, and I desired was to do with staffing issues. I outlined in the Chamber last week that pressures had come about as a result of austerity. We have had difficulties with filling staff vacancies, and that is endemic across all Departments; Members from parties that have Ministers will know of that issue.”
“I thank Matthew O'Toole and the other Members who have spoken in the debate. Like everybody here, I want to see the matter progress. I hope that most people were listening during Question Time last week when I gave a commitment, in response to a question from the Member for North Belfast Nuala McAllister, that officials have already started work to progress this. I recognise the value of the scheme. Unlike most Members who are in the Chamber now, I am not from Belfast, but I am a frequent visitor to the Cathedral Quarter, and it is a part of Belfast that I love to come to, like many others not just from Ireland but from across the world. I want to use my role to do what I can to enhance that and achieve everything that has been discussed today.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“To clarify, I did not say "objections"; I said "concerns raised". There is a difference.”
“I am working with all key stakeholders across the North to ensure that we can find solutions that will not have a negative impact on the people whom we all serve.”
“I do not have time at this point; sorry. <BR /> <BR />As we have seen in the first three years of the price control, the current funding model works when it is funded. I doubt that there is a single Member in the Assembly who would suggest that we ask households and families to pay more in respect of water charges. <BR /> <BR />The approach that I have taken is a sensible one that can achieve solutions. I welcome additional suggestions other than the implementation of water charges. If Members feel that there is scope out there that I have not looked at, feel free to share that. I have a meeting today with representatives from the NI Chamber and other sectors, and planning and waste water infrastructure will be part of those discussions.”
“<BR /> <BR />I remain open to alternative solutions; however, they must be compliant with Executive policy on how water and waste water services are funded and comply with the requirement to increase investment, to control borrowing debt and to remain affordable, most importantly, for people and for families.”
“We are also working collaboratively with other Departments in relation to Lough Neagh. <BR /> <BR />We had a lot of talk today about reviews: "We do not want a review, but we do want a review". The Committee has asked for the six reviews that have already taken place. The Department has extensively reviewed the funding model and has analysed the opportunities for NI Water to raise additional revenue, to operate more efficiently, for additional borrowing, using additional public expenditure funding and governance change. My recent announcement about the appointment of a forensic accountant ties in with all that work. It is important that I, as Minister, the Department and the Assembly as a whole understand how that budget is currently being spent. Is there room for improvement, or, essentially, is there no more room for flexibility?”
“I fully recognise the risks and issues affecting the environment, the economy and housing as a consequence of the funding challenges. I am committed to doing everything possible to ensure that my Department contributes to achieving the Programme for Government outcomes, which infrastructure — particularly, our waste water infrastructure — underpins across the board. We have talked about how we have seen some of the work that has progressed to date with the £19·5 million. As well as that, it is important to say that my Department is working collaboratively with colleagues in the Department for Communities, the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, the Housing Executive and NI Water to identify further key projects that can unlock waste water capacity to enable more housing connection in the future.”
“As I have said previously, it must comply with the requirements of 'Managing Public Money NI' (MPMNI) and, specifically, regularity, propriety and value for money.”
“There have been quite positive sounds made about what that legislation will potentially bring about. Let us therefore try those things and test them out rather than automatically default to adding more charges to households. <BR /> <BR />I recently asked my officials to reassess a range of governance models, with reference to three specific tests, to which Members have alluded, to determine whether those models can secure large-scale investment, access and service debt and provide assurance about controlling the cost burden on the public. Ultimately, the funding and governance model for NI Water, as a non-departmental public body, must operate within the Executive's policy framework for the funding and delivery of water and sewerage services.”
“The only other option that I am hearing today is to introduce more charges, meaning more bills for hard-pressed families, and that is something that I am not prepared to do. Perhaps others are, but, if they subsequently take the Ministry, so be it, and they can consider introducing them in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />In that vein, I will focus on the positive outcomes that can be achieved from the funding envelope that is available. I mentioned the three-pronged approach, and we have seen some of its successes. I think that it was you, Keith, who outlined the unlocking of capacity through the £19 million funding received from monitoring rounds. That has to be recognised. As well as that, Andrew McMurray talked about the natural drainage legislation, and I have been speaking to some stakeholders about that.”
“I met the Utility Regulator earlier this afternoon, and I look forward to continuing that engagement with the Utility Regulator and with NI Water, because, collaboratively, we can achieve progress on the issues. Welsh Water is an example of how mutualisation is not working. People in Wales are seeing, I think, a 27% rise in their bills in this financial year. Is that what we are proposing today? <BR /> <BR />On the comments about developer contributions, I have said, at every stage at which I have discussed them, that I do not believe that they are a silver bullet. Rather, they are part of a broader solution, and we have to consider all the options. This is about looking at what is available to us. What have we got in our armoury that can make a change? It is then about working together to make that change.”
“You did not mention any new options, however. What we have heard to date is mutualisation, privatisation and nothing else. I have put my approach on the record, and I will continue my work. <BR /> <BR />I will return to your comment, Matthew, about borrowing and getting first call. We had first call on reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) borrowing this year. Unfortunately, it is capped by Treasury. This year, we got £105 million, which has gone to NI Water from the Executive, so that is an indication of how important that is, not just to me as the Minister and my predecessor but to the Executive as a whole. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to the comments from Alliance and DUP Members. We have talked about mutualisation. One has just to look at Welsh Water.”
“I need to get through this. My time is limited, Matthew.”
“I appreciate the Member's comments, but the point that I am making is that this is not an issue that has just arisen. Rather, it is an issue that has come about as a result of chronic underinvestment, and I think that we are all in agreement on that point. If the solution were as easy as Members have today made it out to be, we would be using that solution, but it is not. The SDLP said yesterday and today that it is on the same page as me in not wanting to introduce water charges, but I am yet to hear what the other options are.”
“Successive British Governments have continually underfunded us. The cost of delivering on the issues has almost doubled in the time since the latest price control period started.”
“I do not need to remind Members that I will not oversee the imposition of water charges on people and families who are already struggling in the midst of a cost-of-living crisis. The ideas that have been proposed in this debate, in previous debates, in questions for written answer and in questions for oral answer all lead to one thing: water charges. <BR /> <BR />I will focus on some of the issues that Members have raised during the debate. It is important to go back to Patsy McGlone's opening comments about successive Sinn Féin Infrastructure Ministers. I remind Members that Sinn Féin has held the Infrastructure portfolio for less than two of the past three years. Previous to that, there was an SDLP Infrastructure Minister. That seems to have been forgotten. The challenges have not just arisen in the past two years.”
“<BR /> <BR />In 2024-25, NI Water was provided with nearly £500 million of public money, representing almost 40% of the non-ring-fenced funding budget that was provided to my Department. It is necessary to remember that NI Water's spending also includes borrowing from my Department. As a public-sector organisation, regardless of the source of borrowed funds, whether private or public, all expenditure must be within the allocated budget. The Assembly previously debated a review of NI Water and discussed alternative company structures such as mutualisation, which we have heard about today. The simple fact remains, however, that changing NI Water's status will require a change to how it receives its revenue.”
“<BR /> <BR />The motion and the amendments raise important issues around the impact of austerity funding on a vital public service. I am committed to working to find solutions — whether or not others agree with those approaches — within my Department's overall policy framework and the Executive's policy for funding NI Water from the public purse. It must be recognised that, because NI Water is majority funded from the public purse, it is classified as an organisation within central government and subject to government accounting rules, as I said, as defined in 'Managing Public Money NI'. All NI Water's expenditure must come from within the public expenditure envelope that is provided to my Department.”
“Indeed, my Department has provided almost £90 million of additional funding over and above the funding level that was recommended by the Utility Regulator for that period. The key issue is the level of public expenditure that is available to the Executive, not just my Department, to allocate to NI Water. That is a consequence of the underfunding of public services in the North over many years. I am glad to say that, previously, all parties were united in engaging with the British Government to try to resolve the issue. That, however, seems to have been forgotten about in today's debate. I hope that parties will continue to push for that, because it benefits all our Departments and every service that we deliver on a daily basis.”
“<BR /> <BR />As an arm's-length body sponsored by my Department, NI Water is required to deliver on three key areas: to provide a high-quality service that is independently regulated by the Utility Regulator, protecting the interests of consumers by challenging NI Water to deliver high-quality, value for money water and sewage services; to adhere to the requirements of a public-sector organisation, delivering services for all people across the North within the allocated budget and with due regard for statutory obligations; and to be accountable to my Department and the Assembly for its operational and financial performance and compliance with 'Managing Public Money NI'. <BR /> <BR />My Department has fully funded NI Water for the first three years of the current price control period.”
“We have seen examples where other approaches have not worked elsewhere. For me, that is fundamental to how we move forward on the issue. <BR /> <BR />Before I address the motion specifically, I remind Members that NI Water was established in 2007 as a government-owned company to provide water and sewage services across the North. Since its establishment, it has been the Executive's policy to provide subsidies to NI Water in lieu of domestic water charging. Since 2007, some £4 billion of public money has been invested in the water and waste water infrastructure in the North, and NI Water has reduced its efficiency gap compared with similar companies in England and Wales from 49% in 2007 to 5% today.”
“I thank the proposers of the motion on NI Water's funding and governance and those who tabled the amendments. The issue is well rehearsed. I have lost count of the number of times that we have had these discussions in the three months that I have been in post. That is not to underplay the issue's importance, because it deserves a focused debate. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware, and many have mentioned in the debate, that I and my predecessor have been proactive in working to find solutions by means of a three-pronged approach, whether or not they agree with that, and some have indicated that they do not. I thank Mr Carroll for his comments about keeping NI Water in-house: that is our focus, and it is critical to ensuring that the people whom we represent get the service that they are entitled to and deserve.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“Absolutely. As I said, I meet the DVA regularly on a range of issues. I am happy to do that in order to see where things are and how we can improve the system.”
“I have had a number of meetings with the DVA in recent weeks, but I do not have a specific date for the Member. I have not met it specifically about the processing of driving licences, but, if the Member wants to provide me with more information about local experiences, I can raise the issue with the DVA and try to get an update for him.”
“As the Member is aware, my Department is developing the new regional strategic transport network transport plan, which will set out priorities for investment in our road, rail and interurban limited stock bus network, including park-and-ride, through to 2035. I expect a draft of the plan to be ready for public consultation at the end of this year.”
“Major road schemes are an important part of the work that my Department delivers as we seek to reduce journey times, increase reliability and improve road safety. The A2 Buncrana Road scheme will be considered as part of the north-west transport plan, which will be subject to a public consultation process. Views from the public were sought to help shape the vision and objectives of the transport plan, as well as to identify local transport concerns in the district through public engagement, which commenced on 27 August and concluded on 5 November last year. The draft plan is expected to be published for public consultation in December this year, after which we hope to be able to move on it. Everything is subject to budget, but that is a priority scheme.”
“As I said, we have to ensure that we engage with all the stakeholders that will be impacted on, including the businesses that operate in that area. To ensure that we get it right, it is important that the process conclude. As I said, it will commence in the next few weeks. Hopefully, with all being well, unless there are any unforeseen issues, we will be able to move forward at pace with the scheme.”
“Concerns were also raised about how access would be maintained for people with disabilities. I have therefore agreed that officials will commence engagement with stakeholders in the coming weeks in advance of progressing the development of an experimental scheme and associated legislation. Officials will provide updates to stakeholders throughout the process. We have asked for that process to move at pace.”
“I thank the Member for asking that question. It is an issue that has attracted quite a lot of media attention in recent weeks, but a lot of that attention has been based on information that is not factual. The scheme has been delayed not because of cost, as the Member for South Belfast, who has now left the Chamber, said at Question Time, but because of staffing shortages, as staff have been taken elsewhere to work on Grand Central station and deal with traffic congestion in Belfast. <BR /> <BR />As the Member may be aware, however, an informal consultation was undertaken in March 2024, to which nine representations were received. A review of the representations indicated that, while businesses were content with the concept of pedestrianisation, they sought longer vehicular access times for deliveries.”
“As I said, road safety is a huge priority for me. The road safety strategy until 2030 reflects our continuing commitment to work in partnership to reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries on our roads. In 2024-25, my Department spent £0·5 million on road safety advertising to encourage safer behaviour on our roads, as I have talked about, which was an increase of £0·3 million or 60% from the previous year. <BR /> <BR />I have not taken any decisions on it in this year's budget, as it is subject to consideration of the responses to my Department's equality impact consultation, which closes on 5 June 2025. On the other side of that, I will take decisions on budgetary allocation.”
“I have also asked officials to reinforce the messaging to help keep all road users, especially the vulnerable, safe. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we, as motorists, are conscious of the damage that we can do while on the road. When it comes to mobile phones, alcohol, drugs and things like that, many people maybe think, "Well, it won't happen to me": unfortunately, it does, and that impacts on lots of other people's lives. We have to make sure that there is messaging to change that culture and behaviour.”
“Road safety is a key priority for the Department. As we have talked about, the number of road deaths is, unfortunately, increasing year-on-year. My officials are already progressing work to introduce a single lower drink-driving offence that is applicable to all drivers. We are also taking forward consultation options for enabling primary legislation to address drug-driving, and we will consult on further proposed changes to the legislation regulating the use of mobile phones while driving. I have asked officials to look urgently at all the options that may be available to improve safety for schoolchildren. I want to explore wider road safety measures such as speed limit reductions, including 20 mph zones in residential areas and outside schools.”
“This is predominantly anecdotal, I suppose, because I have not yet been briefed in detail on the issue since coming into post, but we have heard the positives of it. We saw that it helped with traffic congestion. I have heard that in various discussions since coming into post in February. It is important to look at that, but it is about hearing from all sides to see what the balanced approach should be.”
“I do not have the update with me, Stewart, but I can come back to you on that. I know that we have also launched the review of the Taxis Act 2008 and that there is lots of work happening around taxis. I am happy to come back to you specifically on where that is. I will hopefully be able to provide the most up-to-date detail on it.”
“Absolutely. It affects my constituency. I use that road every day, and I am sure that the Member does also. Knowing some of the families who have been impacted and have lost loved ones on that road, I think that it is something that we need to ensure. Like on the A5, too many lives have been lost along that stretch of road. I am giving a commitment that I want this to move at the fastest pace possible and in a timely manner. <BR /> <BR />When speaking to those first-year children, it struck me when one asked, "Do you know how scary it is to cross that road when going to school every day?". That child's perspective will always stick with me. As adults and motorists, we are aware, but a child being as cognisant of that, as those children are, is something that I take with me all the time. I want to ensure that we see that expedited.”
“I recently met Newbridge Integrated College, which has done a huge amount of work on a campaign for the A1, and I have met other roads campaigners, including Monica Heaney, who have been instrumental in ensuring that the work moves at pace. As it stands, the work will be open to the consultation process, and officials are working through the design of that. We are due to start work in 2026, but I will get more specific dates for you. I have them but not in front of me, Diane. The intention is to start work next year.”
“With any such work, it is important that we get it right, that we do not leave gaps that could be exploited and that the benefits are seen by the people to whom they are directed. We have to look at all those potentials as part of that process. In expediting any process, I would be concerned, at the same time, to take the right time to ensure that the work is done properly. I welcome any input or contributions from the Member or others in the area on those concerns so that they can be addressed early in the process.”
“I thank the Member for his question and recognise the significance of the announcement about Magee university. Hopefully, that will be huge for the north-west. <BR /> <BR />To alleviate the issues, as in many other cases, we need to work collaboratively and collectively, not just through the planning process but in our work with NI Water and in addressing any other barriers that may be holding back potential for delivering new housing and HMOs, to ensure the best outcome for everybody.”
“Officials will continue to review and assess the A2 through regular inspections and will take forward the repair of defects in line with the Department's current limited service policy.”
“OK. I will do my best. <BR /> <BR />As you know, my Department has been operating under significant underfunding for many years. Regrettably, structural maintenance funding, which is used to deliver resurfacing projects, has not kept pace with what is needed to keep roads in a reasonable condition, as we have discussed at length today. That said, the Department has completed two resurfacing schemes on the A2 Newcastle Road in Kilkeel in 2024-25, with over 3 kilometres of the road having been resurfaced. Any further resurfacing improvements will be taken forward on the basis of priority need and subject to the level of structural maintenance funding in future years.”
“We discussed the situation in Ards and North Down in a recent Adjournment debate. Funding is allocated to each division using a very technical methodology, and we talked about that at length in that debate. As I said in my previous answers, there is no doubt that we do not have enough money to do all the work that is required and to deliver what is needed across our road network. That is why we are trying to do as much as we can with the budget that is available and to be smarter with it. All road users, whether they are motorists, cyclists or pedestrians, should have access to safe, good-quality roads. That work is ongoing as part of the strategy that is being developed, and I hope to see that being implemented fairly soon.”
“As part of the new strategy that we are currently working on — I will be considering it in detail in the coming weeks — we want to focus on higher-quality repairs that will be more sustainable. That will involve the use of modern technology to direct our investments where they are needed most, ensuring smarter maintenance decisions but also future-proofing our roads to meet society's changing needs, including active travel, reducing the carbon footprint of our operations and ensuring that the network is resilient after adverse weather events.”
“I have said in the Chamber before that officials are currently working on a new road maintenance strategy for all the reasons outlined. We have staffing shortages across the Department as well as a lack of investment in the Department for Infrastructure. His former colleague, who previously served as Infrastructure Minister, would agree that that was the case during her time in office. This is something that we have been dealing with for many years. It will be important to look at how we can do things differently and how we can deliver higher-quality repairs instead of what we have had to do for many years, spreading resources too thinly. It is important that, where we intervene, we ensure that we have a safer and more reliable road network.”
“That figure includes compensation payments along with payment of vehicle damage loss assessor fees, departmental legal costs and claimants’ legal costs. <BR /> <BR />The Member should be aware that claims that are received in a financial year are not always concluded in the same financial year. Therefore, the expenditure figures for a given financial year will usually include spend on claims that were received in prior years. In addition, although my Department has a statutory duty under article 8 of the Roads Order 1993 to maintain public roads, there is no automatic entitlement to compensation. My Department investigates and defends public liability claims, with every case turning on its own facts. In cases where officials believe that the Department can raise a legal defence, claims will be repudiated.”
“My Department maintains its financial records by financial year on the NICS accounting system, Account NI. Given the time of year, the figures that are available in relation to claim numbers and expenditure on vehicle damage compensation due to road surface defects since February 2024 may be subject to change. This is because the normal end-of-year financial adjustments on the Account NI system and data management exercises on my Department’s claims management system have yet to be finalised. I can confirm, from the data currently available, that the expenditure on vehicle damage compensation claims due to road surface defects from 1 February 2024 to 31 March 2025 was approximately £1·4 million.”